The Max Contract Guys
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The Max Contract Guys
Before the regular season started, there seemed to be some speculation (I include myself among that group) that the 76ers might just contend for a playoff spot. In the very early preseason, in that first week of training camp, when this team’s ability was judged not yet against another NBA team inside an arena, but by watching the players against one another on the practice court, fighting for a playoff spot seemed a distinct possibility. A new coach, a handful of new players, a No. 2 draft pick, but as soon as the preseason games began – and, yes, we know preseason games are difficult to judge – there was little doubt that this would be a difficult season.
One preseason game in particular, the one against the Cleveland Cavaliers played in Roanoke, VA, looked particularly disturbing. There was a distinct vibe on the court that was worrisome; the game was a complete waste in terms of serving any purpose whatsoever except for highlighting the Sixers’ shortcomings: there was little cohesion, J.J. Hickson was a monster on the boards, there was a certain sense of disconnect. Sixers coach Doug Collins was not on the bench for that game (which probably contributed to the poor play) because he had returned early to Philly to deal with vertigo symptoms.
If anything, a prediction of 30-32 wins, which was pretty standard in the week leading up to the start of the regular season, seemed entirely fair. And in the first 10 games of the season, you’ve seen some of the reasons why that initial optimism almost immediately disappeared. This is not to say that the Sixers haven’t competed each and every night (omitting Saturday’s game against the San Antonio Spurs, which was a disaster), because they have. But the issues present in that preseason game against Cleveland were in full effect on Saturday.
We have some contributors/posters on this blog who are detailed in their statistical analysis of all things Sixers, so as a warning going forward, this observation is not based upon game-by-game research of the Sixers during the last two-plus seasons, but rather in the cumulative sum of having watched 150-plus of the games. So if anyone has compiled stats they’d like to share on the topic, post them below, or email me at kfagan@phillynews.com, and I’ll try to put them up.
So, here goes.
Can Andre Iguodala and Elton Brand play together effectively? In theory, you would think they’d be able to. Brand would be the post presence, draw the occasional double team, run the pick-and-roll with Iguodala, and life would be merry. In this ideal world, Brand would post on the low block, garner the attention of a few defenders, Iguodala would slice through the line for a little bounce pass and throw down a jam. Next possession, Iguodala would make the same cut and the defenders would honor it, and Brand could go to work. Probably, when Ed Stefanski signed both Brand and Iguodala to max deals, this was the assumed vision.
In reality, the two just don’t seem to flourish together. It’s not as if they’re awful together, but it seems when they’re both healthy and on the court together, each of them is knocked down to about 65 percent effectiveness (remember, this is perception and I just decided on that number arbitrarily from two-plus years of watching – blogging is fun like that). During the 2008-09 season, when Brand was sidelined with the shoulder injury, Iguodala had a pretty decent year. He hit a number of game-winning shots and was very consistently the team’s go-to player. Last season, with both of them healthy, Iguodala’s numbers were decent, not great, and Brand’s numbers were decent, not great. The two of them, together, probably accounted for a little over one max contract player, but obviously the Sixers are paying for two.
This season, this whole theory has been put under the microscope for two reasons: 1.) Because Brand is healthy, has been playing so well, and has been really effective offensively. 2.) Because for the first time in 250 games, Iguodala missed games. For the first time since Brand signed, we were able to watch the Sixers play with Brand, but without Iguodala. It seemed as if many people liked what they saw.
Here’s the impression of the difference. When Iguodala was healthy, but Brand was injured (and we recognize there have been other shifts in personnel, but these are impressions), the flow of the offense was orientated around the perimeter. There would be at least the standard pick-and-roll each possession; there would be penetration to the basket, and obviously the traditional fast-break game. With this setup, an actual post game was very sporadic, so while there was still plenty of standing and watching (it is an NBA team after all!), it wasn’t so much watching a post player. This was effective during the 2008-09 season, but a large percentage of that success should be credited to Andre Miller. In addition, this style can only take the Sixers so far, as we witnessed in multiple playoff appearances.
Last week, when a healthy Brand was the key half-court player, and Iguodala was sidelined with Achilles tendinitis, Brand seemed even more effective in his game. The team’s offense was still predicated on the play of Jrue Holiday, but there was a very natural sense that every third possession or so Brand would get the ball and go to work. Brand has been very successful this season in that position. Without Iguodala, there was no confusion or split role about who would get these dedicated possessions. The whole thing worked quite well, with Brand crashing the offensive boards even when Holiday, Turner, Meeks, Young, Speights, etc., were doing their thing from the mid-range/three-point line. More importantly, the effectiveness of how the Sixers played against the New York Knicks (the one victory without Iguodala), actually looked like a performance they’d be able to replicate quite often. It wasn’t fool’s gold, as sometimes the Sixers’ offense can be on a night when they happen to shoot 11 for 18 from the three-point line, but do that only once every 20 games.
This is not a commentary on either Iguodala or Brand, but on the effectiveness of the two of them together, which should be paramount to deciding what happens next with this franchise.
On the Road: I’ve posted the third video of our On the Road series, which should be embedded in this post. An early morning at the San Antonio International Airport, which is pretty indicative of life on the road.
--Kate
Each week, Kate will check in from the road and answer fan questions about the Sixers. Click here to ask Kate a question or e-mail her at kfagan@phillynews.com.
Comments (37)
I like the way EB has played so far this year. Iggy, on the other hand, hasn't asserted himself on offense yet. Given the glut of small forward types on this team it seems obvious that Iggy will be traded this year. The only question is what to get in return. I'd like to get a useful player for the frontline plus a first round pick or two depending on the team.— Rick Wise Guy- All good points, but not one word about the reason the Sixers were good for one season with Iggy - Andre Miller— osuphan
- My concern is not simply how Brand and Iguodala play together, but how Turner and Holiday play with Iguodala, which thus far has not looked very smooth, to put it mildly. After last night's fiasco, the Sixers should have been put on a cross-country bus, not a jet. Good luck with your flights.— chuckw
- It seemed to me, in watching the games minus Iggy, the offense flowed pretty decently. Elton Brand seemed to enjoy being the centerpiece. He is very active on both ends of the court. It seems like the more touches that he was getting in games versus Indiana, Washington, and NY, the more effective he was. Jrue, Evan, and Lou ran the offense with some pretty positive results. When Iggy returned versus Dallas, Brand, at times, saw a double team. The Mavs seemed more than willing to give Iggy the outside shot knowing that they had little to fear. The only time that Iggy is effective offensively is either finishing on the break or a rare post up move. Running the offense through Brand was opening things up on the perimeter for Nocioni and most of the guards. Without Iggy, the offense looked like it flowed ok. With him, the coaching staff and or teammates feel obligated to get him touches. The Sixers major problem is the lack of a physical presence in the middle. Other teams are getting too many second chances on the boards and attacking the paint. If you could package Iggy and Thaddeus Young for a servicable center that is commited to helping Brand out on the boards, that would be a start in the right direction. Some of these pieces are not fits. You have to find the right dance partner for a trade.— Seeing Red
- Leave it to an OSUPHAN to - there was a whole sentence of words about Andre Miller. "This was effective during the 2008-09 season, but a large percentage of that success should be credited to Andre Miller"— B in DC
Since reaching a high of 19.9 PPG during the '07-'08 season, Andre Iguodala's production has fallen a point or two every year. He is now scoring under 13 per game. Iggy's not alone in his downward spiral.
Thaddeus Young, as you explained, has slipped badly this year due to defensive shortcomings and reduced minutes. He was the guy everyone wanted to replace Iguodala.
I was persistent, as you may remember, in my pleas for him to be traded when his value was high and his contract was small.
Jason Kapono has dropped from 8.2 PPG with Toronto to 1.4 with Philly. (Because he can't play defense.)
Spencer Hawes managed over 10 PPG with Sacramento, but he's under 6 PPG with the Sixers. (Because he can't play defense.)
Mareese Speights has dropped from 8.6 to 3.7. (Because he can't play defense.)
Why do players come to the Sixers and get worse? Because they can't play defense, except Iguodala, who can't play offense. Which begs the question of why the Sixers drafted or acquired them.
I mostly agree with SEEING RED, Package Iggy (and/or Thad) and try to get a big man to help Brand.
- Clearly the offense needs to run through Brand, he should get 20 shots a game. Sixers need to work a 3 man game with Brand, Nocioni and Jrue as the focal point of the half court O. Iguodala would be the other post palyer option but Brand clearly better. Both Iguodala and Turner dribble too much and that hurts the flow. Brand, Nocioni and Jrue are your new core. Turner will join that core in second half of year. I would use that 4 plus Hawes, Young and Williams and build some chemistry. I like Iguodala for Deng, or Jeff Green (plus MoPete's contract to make it work) or for Gortat and Bass, or for Favors as part of a 3 way Melo deal.— JBP
- Seeing Red and JBP: great posts; could not agree more.— chuckw
- Meeks and battie should start, that would solve alot of sixers problems.— cosmic
>This was effective during the 2008-09 season, but a large percentage >of that success should be credited to Andre Miller. In addition, >this style can only take the Sixers so far, as we witnessed in >multiple playoff appearances.
This is exactly right, and most of us would kill right now for multiple playoff appearances. So we don't know why we let Miller go...but we know that we should get rid of Iguodala?....can't you understand why that makes me a little bit nervous? Don't forget Dileo...the most successful coach we have had in years, including Collins so far.
I take Kate's words seriously, and expect that she is in close contact with these issues and sees the behind the scenes stuff that is obvious to those who are there. I hope that she is right, because if they trade Iggy and we get little in return and have a young team that has no direction and Brand as the only leader...it will be a freaking nightmare.— srvdove
Trading Iguodala for Deng doesn't appear to make much sense. Similar skill set. However Iguodala for Chris Kaman would be a significant step in the right direction. We'll see ...- Coach knew that this team had no center and that Evan and iguodala are very similar players,yet he plays them together. Brand and iguodala can play together. Start Battie for 20-24 min with Young and Jrue and you have a winning experiment. It can't hurt. Brand can score in that scenario and team can run. Mavericks and Spurs are elite teams. Each has a set system with players playing in their natural positions. Sixers are still experimenting. The Spurs blowout was ugly but not totally unexpected given that it was a back to back against very good teams at the end of a road trip. Predicting a failed season after 10 games doesn't help. Sixers may not become great. But they can beat a lot of teams. It will get worse if we continually speculate or hope that a player is traded. Hope springs eternal!— philsix6
- Does anyone else notice a different(better) energy with this team when Iguodala is out of the lineup? Forget the effectiveness of Brand w/o Iguodala, the team just has a more positive vibe when he's out. I noticed without Iguodala guys(Brand!) was diving on the floor, hustling. Iguodala's bad vibe is prevalent all over this team when he's out there. Get him out of here!— Flock
- @ Kate - great analysis. you truely are my favorite sports journalist. Keep up the unbelievable work. ESPN or the NBA will recognize your passion and dedication soon.— Tough* Juice*
- FishFry, Deng much better shooter.— JBP
- Ha, no team would touch Brand or Iguodala's contracts. Every GM knows Brand is only good for 30-35 good games a year and Iguodala gets empty stats and then chokes in the 4th. Those guys are all ours until the last year of their deals when they have value as expiring contracts.— JonKap
- Kate, your a reporter who understands the game,writes well with a face made for television. It won't be long until your traveling first class for a major network. Keep the video to remind you where you came from because it's going to be a short trip to the top for you.— sjphilsphan
- Guys, enough already with the glowing praise. This lady isn't going to date you. And get out more. The sports journalism world has a waiting list a mile long of bright, young, articulate men and women journalists. And many are taller, more telegenic, more sophisticated and prettier people than our writer here. Chill already, she does a decent job reporting on a bad team in a city where the NBA is low down on the totem pole. ESPN isn't coming knocking for goodness sakes.— JonKap
- preach on FishFryFrank...Chris Kaman would definitely upgrade the front court with his understanding of the game as well as the offense and defense he brings to the table...a starting five of Jrue,Evan,Nocioni,Brand(he's playing like what they thought they were getting when they signed him),and Kaman...Lou,Jodie(also playing well off the bench),and thadbacking them up is way better than whats happening now...maybe even playoff bound.— philly4lyfe
- Kate, this team is worse than CU's football & basketball teams combined. God bless you for having the 76ers assignment. I predict the Eagles will win a Super Bowl and the Flyers a Cup before the Sixers win a playoff series.— 5280philly
- Jonkap just because the fans in Philly don't value Iguodala does not mean other teams don't, the best team in the league (record-wise) the New Orleans Hornets offered to trade for Iguodala so what does that say? They're willing to give up a huge salary cap relief coming in the summer with peja. I'm at the point with Iguodala where even if all we get is salary cap space (which can be used in the future to aquire better players) even if we got someone like Peja and just sat him, the team played better without Iguodala anyway. Since he came back it looks like the team has regressed. Something needs to happen and it starts with dumping these huge max salaries. Can't get much worse than 2 wins out of 10 games. At least if we keep that up we won't set a new record for fewest wins. 16 wins. With a salary cap of almost 70 million dollars. The NBA needs to cut back 5 teams. Philly is one of the bigger markets and look at how it is going to waste in the water-down NBA of 2010. I'd definately go for Kamen. We need a big via draft or trade. A good one who can play/defend right now not the future. We got enough future players who won't be good for some time (or at all). I'm still waiting for the trade deadline because other teams will be more desperate.— joecooler2u
- Flock, I notice that every time Iggy is on the floor. He is a cancer cell that makes everyone else worse and he must go!— CBent1
- JonKap: Simply because some posters appreciate Kate Fagan's reporting and her well-grounded basketball knowledge and are effusive in their praise for her does not warrant your mean-spirited and rather nasty attack on her looks and skills. Perhaps you are the one who needs to get out more.— chuckw
- hey kate...the paper should give u a camera guy,or are u on a low budget??.anyway,keep up the good reporting,and i'll be your cameraman.......— t_darb_56
@'JonKap': I agree with your equation that TooManyDala=Untradeable, but Dude, there is no reason to beat on Ms. Fagan the way you did, that made you look like a bitter fool. I haven't seen her videos, but Kate's new picture makes her look like Carey Lowell's younger sister - and Ms. Lowell was not only Adam Schiff's favorite Associate District Attorney, but she was a BOND GIRL.
@'t_darb': Isn't that guy named 'Can' Kate's cameraman? Isn't Trash Can her production assistant?
— Nuutron
A few weeks ago, Coach Collins had made a comment post-game after a Sixers loss that there wasn't a single player on the roster who had a winning record as a professional. Perhaps its about time the Sixers begin acquiring players with winning pedigrees. They don't necessarily have to be Kobe-caliber superstars, but bring in some guys with a winning mentality who are used to overcoming adversity and maybe the team culture would begin to change from the Loser mentality they currently possess.- are they both "max" players? i thought they were both just under "max" status.— sasquatches
Comment removed.
There is a big problem with this team...it's a hole in the middle. Hawes is showing why he was traded. Battie is not able to play enough minutes, Speights guards nobody, Brand can't handle the load defensively at center and still be the focal point of the offense. I guess if Kaman is the best center they can get, they should trade Iggy for him. I say this becaause the true shooters on this team all get minutes limited because of Iggy. Nocioni, Kopono and Meeks will help keep teams from packing it inside and Brand should be even more effective. I would like to see a lineup of Holiday, Turner, Nocioni, Brand and Kaman.
man.. this $hit looks awful. blow it up.. Here goes off of the top of my head without thought.. Trade lou for.. ummm capt. jack.. trade iguodala for tayshawn and austin daye. trade thad and turner for thompson. Brand for posey and dahntay jones. jrue, capt. jack, tayshawn, sp8ts, thompson.. lots of hybrids.. dahntay jones, tay, capt. jack, noc, If. I had my way to be honest. I WOULD CLEAN HOUSE!!! Collins they are not playing for you.. lou, iguodala, thad, my guy sp8ts, they are not playing.. they are on some other $hit.— combocancer1975- Anybody that thinks EB is going to continue to shoot above 55% from the field all season raise your hands? Thats right nobody has there hands raised. Igoudala needs to go because this team has a glut of small forward and guards and are nowhere near winning. Elton Brand needs to go because he makes a ridiculous ammount of money and again the team is nowhere near being good. I aslo believe the play we are seeing from Elton Brand is fools gold. Can he have a nice bounceback year? Sure it could happen. Can he continue to put up a crazy PER? No way. The reason that Elton Brand and Igoudala do not work together is because you can't run with EB on the floor and we don't have a point guard that can run the break like Andre Miller. Really if this team wanted to continue to have some moderate success they should have re-signed Anfre Miller. While Holliday looks like an up and comer this team hasn't had consistent quality pg play since Miller left and its killing them. Holliday has some of the most ridiculous turnovers I have ever seen.— brannigan73
- Anybody that thinks EB is going to continue to shoot above 55% from the field all season raise your hands? Thats right nobody has there hands raised. Igoudala needs to go because this team has a glut of small forward and guards and are nowhere near winning. Elton Brand needs to go because he makes a ridiculous ammount of money and again the team is nowhere near being good. I aslo believe the play we are seeing from Elton Brand is fools gold. Can he have a nice bounceback year? Sure it could happen. Can he continue to put up a crazy PER? No way. The reason that Elton Brand and Igoudala do not work together is because you can't run with EB on the floor and we don't have a point guard that can run the break like Andre Miller. Really if this team wanted to continue to have some moderate success they should have re-signed Anfre Miller. While Holliday looks like an up and comer this team hasn't had consistent quality pg play since Miller left and its killing them. Holliday has some of the most ridiculous turnovers I have ever seen.— brannigan73
- Very easy to see Brand is playing absolutely awesome this year. Great effort. On the other hand, Iggy is clueless to how his poor shot selection kills this team on a nightly basis. Get rid of Iggy for anything...expiring contract, young bench warmer, picks......anything.— Bobby V
- Honestly this team is so messed up it's so sad right now. We have way too many players who play the same position and play the same style.
1. We have no center at all
2.Iggy and Turner basically play the same style.
3. Iggy is NOT a shooting guard
4. Jodie Meeks and Lou Williams are both 2 guard who play the same way
5. With Turner, Meeks and Williams there just isn't enough mins to go around.
6. Young can't get on the court. He is too slow for small forward and too small for power forward. But he is a good player.— Jerseymagic 
Kap is such a hater.... Anyway I Like to think that given time Collins will put this team on the right track. There needs to be some house cleaning. Igoudala being moved won't be for a useful player to add to the core of Holiday and Evans. It will be a financial move, mark my words. With Peja's or Melo's money coming off the books I hope they just hold on to it and don't waste it.- There is little doubt that win or lose, this team is more fun to watch without Iguadala, plain and simple. They look more like a team, they seem to have more energy, the ball movement is better and captain chaos isn't running around trying to dribble and shoot his rainbows. Its' time to go Iggy.
- @kate: I too am a big fan - you always come up with an interesting different angle to consider and then give us some interesting inisights on the topic. Everyone has wondered if Turner and Igoudala could play together. No one really talks about these two, though. Kudos.
I subscribe more to the eye test than some of the advanced stats (i'm a stat-head in business and as Mark twain said there are 3 kinds of lies: Lie, Damn Lies and Statistics. So you have to look behind the numbers as well.)
Now it brings us it the same conclusion - time to reshuffle the deck here a little bit.— shova
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About this blog
John Mitchell is in his second year covering the 76ers for the Inquirer after joining the paper in November 2011. He covered the Washington Wizards for the Washington Times from 1998 to 2008. He's also worked at the Philadelphia Tribune, the Wilmington News Journal, Courier-Post, Trenton Times and Elmira Star-Gazette.Born and raised in West Philadelphia - not too far from Will Smith - he graduated from Overbrook High School the same year the 76ers won their last championship. He's a proud graduate of Howard University and the proud father of two sons, Jared and Jordan.
ABOUT MARC NARDUCCI
Marc Narducci has served in a variety of roles with the Inquirer since beginning in 1983. He has covered the 76ers as a backup and a beat writer. In addition, Narducci has covered everything from the Super Bowl to the World Series and a lot in between. Narducci also has a true passion for South Jersey scholastic sports, which he has covered for many years.
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