Holy Terrorists
When some decide to make war on...some...religions.
Holy Terrorists
He can't figure it out, either
So here’s another installment in Ripley’s Believe It Or Not. File it under “Catholic schools promote Catholicism!”
The Washington DC Office of Human rights acknowledged this week that it’s received, and is in the process of investigating, allegations that Catholic University violated the ‘human’ rights of Muslim students because it refused to allow them to form a Muslim student group and…get this…didn’t let them meet in rooms without “Christian symbols” like crucifixes on the walls for their daily prayers.
According to the preliminary investigation report, Muslims must “perform their prayers surrounded by symbols of Catholicism, e.g. wooden crucifix, paintings of Jesus, pictures of priests and theologians which many Muslim students find inappropriate.”
Ok, let’s get this straight. A bunch of Muslim kids apply to a Catholic university, one which is academically superior but which is, no surprise here, Catholic. I can completely understand why they would want to study at such a renowned university, in our nation’s capital.
What I cannot understand is why they seem to think that this private university has an obligation to accommodate their religious demands. This is not UCLA, UC Berkeley, SUNY or any other state university that must accommodate the religious beliefs of all of its students (or, in the alternative, insult all of them equally…)
This is…and I guess it bears repeating again, and again, and again…
CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY.
Some would say that since the university receives federal funding, it is required to accommodate the demands of its students, even the most misguided among them. But this would be a misreading of the First Amendment. The receipt of federal funds does not force you to betray the tenets of your own religious tradition. It does not mean that you need to make everyone feel all squishy and comfortable. It simply means that you cannot impinge on the First Amendment rights of others.
Thus, if Catholic University refused to accept these students, thereby discriminating against them based upon their religion, you could make a feasible argument that they have violated the kids’ constitutional rights. But where these students are free to pray wherever and whenever they want (except during a biology lab,) and are simply bothered-bothered!-by the sacred symbols of another religion, there’s only one word for their gripes. And I can’t use it here because they don’t allow bad language on this website.
Comments (45)
gwlawalum, who appointed Banzhaf as savior? He was not solicited by anyone at CUA to represent them. However, his "gripe" is a trespass upon the CUA academic environment. The non-aggrieved Muslim students become defacto singled out by his action. They were morally obliged to shoo him away. Where is their integrity and courage?— PlumberJoe
"The fact is that no Muslim student at Catholic University has registered a complaint with the University about the exercise of their religion on campus. And today we learned from an article in the Washington Post that Mr. Banzhaf himself has not received any complaints from our Muslim students. "
Catholic University Statement— gwlawalum- What an incredibly hateful and unresearched article. As a GW Law alumnus and Philadelphia resident, I read this piece with much interest and immense disappointment. First, there is the factual matter that NO MUSLIMS have complained about Catholic U being a Catholic institution. Second, and more troubling, is that somehow Ms. Flowers or her editor felt it was appropriate to entitle this piece "Holy Terrorists". What on earth does this have to do with terrorism? Not only is Ms. Flowers engaging in a tirade against innocent Muslim students who have done nothing to deserve her scorn, but she has casually labeled them terrorists. This piece is disgusting and only promotes hatred of Muslims. Ms. Flowers should issue a retraction not only for being wrong about the facts, but she should apologize for calling Muslims terrorists so casually. I— gwlawalum
- I think, Christine, that Tony has answered our questions about this guy.
PJ, thanks also for embellishing. Don't they call someone who is posing as something he is NOT, a "ringer"?— Magistra - Read this guy's home page. http://banzhaf.net/
It is clear as to his intentions. He is a true progressive (labels, Magistra). All clothing has labels. That is how you identify the garment. Even poison is labelled.
I don't mind truth. In fact I subscribe to it. But distorted truth is a different story.
— PlumberJoe - Christine, please, do not be naive. From this distance, it is vivid that Banzhaf is a hit man. He is only a "punk" professor. Surely there is a much greater force operating behind him. And CUA is only small potatoes in the effort to undermine non Muslim institutions.
The now dead OBL was not the only force out to get the great Satin.
As I pointed out previously, the 1st Amendment works both ways. We are stuck with it. And that is overall good, but in the meantime it also inflicts wounds until we can educate U.S, citizens.
What are schools for, Magistra, There are teachers (and punk professors) imbedded everywhere.
We cannot bomb our way to success. Education is the only real weapon. And this weapon is sadly lacking in teaching our youth the truth.— PlumberJoe - Christine and Magistra - I think this article sets it out best:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/muslim-students-not-behind-complaint-against-catholic-university-59796
Here are the key points from the article:
"George Washington professor John Banzhaf is out to help Muslims at Catholic University. His problem: so far, he hasn’t found anyone who wants his help.
"Banzhaf admitted [this] in an email to The Christian Post. He wrote, “At this point, the complaint is filed solely and only in my name.” The online blog for The Blaze says, “Banzhaf sent a letter to the editor of the school’s newspaper soliciting complainants on September 22, yet readily admits that none have signed on to his case against the school.”
"Banzhaf first learned about CUA’s policy when The Washington Post last year profiled a Muslim undergraduate at CUA. The university told the student he could not form a group dedicated to Muslim worship because the university doesn’t give non-Catholic worship groups official status.
[CU President] Garvey stated: “Contrary to the impression Mr. Banzhaf would like to create, the December 2010 Post article spoke in overwhelmingly positive terms about the experience of Muslim students at Catholic University, and explained why they are attracted to us. A considerable part of the attraction stems from the fact that our community, because of its own outward expressions of Catholic faith, makes them feel comfortable living their faith among us.”
And, Christine, there is no Muslim Student group at CU, so they can't object. There IS an Arab American group, but as someone pointed out in the comments in one of the articles I read, not all Arabs are Muslim.— TonyB - Exactly, Magistra, exactly. I have a strong suspicion that this professor, such as he is, is not acting on simply his own rather misguided behalf. If he is, I would think the community that he is supposedly representing would distance itself from him.— Christine
- Just wondering if there has been any contact at all between the students and Banzhaf. How would he even know about the restrictions or denials if not for someone talking?? There really does seem to be room for some air clearing here.— Magistra
- Tony, if that is the case, then I will be very happy when I see an official announcment from the Muslim student union distancing themselves from this professor's crusade (sorry for the choice of words...) Until then, their silence is, as the law recognizes in many cases, assent in the actions. This is not a case 'against' Muslim students per se, but you would think that if they were not in agreement with the lawsuit, they would want to make that perfectly plain. I am hoping that they will, and publicly, and soon.— Christine
- lefty, as you may or may not know, I greatly respect Genghis Khans's wisdom. I am not for slaughtering innocents, but I am for survival. Khan had a technique for battle. First he would frighten those living outside of the city into running to the city in a panic. This caused great disruption in the city and aided Khan when he attacked.
What you have described is similar, although not as obvious. Franklin has been quoted as saying- What you now have is a Republic, if you can keep it. Little did he know of the wave upon wave of eating away at the roots of the Republic by the media, the great 4th estate. Our media is not the one to be protected by the 1st Amendment.
Sorry Christine, but until the public is truly educated to think, the 1st Amendment puts us all at risk. Let's keep it, as it, but let's get really educated. Not this hoax called education. Sorry Magistra, but the truth is the truth.— PlumberJoe - PJ, Saying the majority of CUA muslims oppose Banzhaf's actions may be a legitimate assunption, but that doesn't exonerate them. Those who pray to Allah throughout the day support the concept of de-Christianizing this private Catholic university. It's how all but a very small minority of secular muslims are programmed to think. I suggest that any deference toward CUA is more likely due to student visas, scholarships, grants, etal., rather than collegiality and objectivity.That's as far as it goes. If you want to get a clearer picture of islam in America and how secular thought among muslims is ignored by both the MSM and politicians, google the name M. Zuhdi Jasser, president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. His presumptions and assertions not only make for interesting reading, but they force one to ask why the press would rather cover CAIR than air Jasser's concerns.— lefty
- See the following article for a clearer picture of the Banzhaf boondoggle - http://www.cuatower.com/news/2011/10/20/university-accused-of-discriminating-against-muslims/
— PlumberJoe - There is such a thing as a trouble maker. John Banzhaf is one. He represents no Muslim in this matter. He is comparable to a person walking down the street and picking a fight with a stranger for personal reasons and attempting to justify it with a lot of straw men.
If a vote were taken by all the Muslim students at CUA, Banzhaf's law suit would be laughed away.— PlumberJoe - Thanks, Tony, for the correction. I misread the article on the lawsuit.
8-)— Magistra - Magistra - Banzhaf isn't a Muslim. He's a lawyer who sees things he doesn't like and files lawsuits. A lot of lawsuits. The Muslims at CU have nothing to do with this.— TonyB
- You have to understand that Muslims are superior(in their own minds)to infidels. Muslims do not tolerate the religious symbols of others, but others must accommodate Muslims.— Falls Ed
- You have to understand that Muslims are superior(in their own minds)to infidels. Muslims do not tolerate the religious symbols of others, but others must accommodate Muslims.— Falls Ed
- the fact that some or many muslim students are not complainants doesn't alter the fact there is an overt attempt to attract media attention. Are all gays activists? It's not about a majority protesting. Most complaints, protests and civil actions are perpetrated by a small segment of the respective group seeking a voice. In this matter, it's about making inroads into a private institution.— lefty
- TonyB - thanks again for the source. It appears that the problem is not with the students themselves but with an overzealous outside Muslim lawyer with an ax to grind.
I found it interesting that more Muslims are enrolling in Catholic colleges and have been embraced and accommodated as much as possible in many of them. Giving them a separate prayer room facing Mecca is a nice touch if it can be managed.
But the article clearly says that they also enjoy spending time in the CU chapel where they also feel close to God.
After all, Christians, Jews and Muslims all recognize the patriarch Abraham as a figure in their religions.
So why all the fuss?
This case is what it is ... so much sound and fury and signifying nothing.
Absurd.
I should have brought the mums in.....drat.
Ciao per ora. 8-)— Magistra - I'd recommend that everyone read the Washington post article that apparently served as Banzhaf's inspiration for filing his complaint. It can be found here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/19/AR2010121904265_pf.html
As you'll see, the Muslims who attend CU, at least those quoted in the article, don't have a problem with how CU treats them or their need to practice their religion.— TonyB - philly, I agree with you, right down the line.
And since I cannot do anything about the weather, of my own FREE WILL, I enjoy it, right down to the last raindrop.— PlumberJoe - philly, practicing a particular religion is a choice, but only if there is free will. Can you say for sure there is free will when it comes to religious preference? Be cautious about free will. It is not as simple as you might expect.
For example, sophy is always bashing Christine. Does sophy do that out of free will or prejudice? Do you think Sophy has free will. I do not. I see no evidence of that.— PlumberJoe - Perhaps not, Plumber, but there is free will when one chooses which university to attend.
- "Muslims must perform their prayers surrounded by symbols of Catholicism, e.g. wooden crucifix, paintings of Jesus, pictures of priests and theologians which many Muslim students find inappropriate.”
Hold the phone here. MUST? Nobody's forcing the students to do anything. Unlike being a member of a specific race, gender, age, or sexual orientation, practicing a particular religion is a choice. This whole case is a crock of hooey.
And I love today's weather as well. Cold, rainy autumn weekends are the best!
- My point is that it is absurd to choose a school that has roots in any particular religion unless a student fully accepts that the trappings of that religion will be everywhere. Same point as Magistra. Yes, it is ridiculous to complain about the Catholicism of an obviously Catholic school. I don't think all Catholic schools are bad, but the one in D.C. does not impress me. It didn't back in the 90s, and it doesn't now. I would not send my kids there. Having said that, I agree that the law needs to recognize absurdity. I used to produce audiobooks and --I kid you not--I had lobbyists for the DEAF try to sue me. Stupidest thing ever (and after all we did for the blind! Joking.... Absurd is as absurd does, but none of that excuses Christine from her typical Muslim-bashing. Go ahead, be Catholic, attend Catholic school (I know I did, but mine was more liberal than CU), but don't rip on other faiths. That's the height of intolerance and uncool.— sophistry
- It is a blustery day. God is rattling the branches and letting us know that he is not amused. But I love this weather. Be warm and safe, friends.— Christine
- Chris, exactly. No one in my recollection had to present a religious ID card to enter my school and no one made a big deal out of the crucifixes on the walls.
We are talking about Saint Joe's and LaSalle.
Simple solution. Don't like the curriculum or the accessories, don't attend.
And PJ is right also. It is bad manners to expect the host college to rearrange its furniture and wall coverings just because you have a problem with it.
It is raw outside. Stay dry and warm all.— Magistra - Sophistry, as usual, can't see the forest for her very old and tiresome trees. The point is this: if you come to the nuisance, as it were, you are then obligated to deal with the consequences. Don't like the type of philosophy at the school you have CHOSEN to attend? Tough. And it's a shame that those Muslim students don't have the grace of the Jewish students who went to Villanova.— Christine
- sophy, the lesson in this blog is- it is poor manners to go into someone's home or university and tell them how to rearrange it to suit your whims or nefarious intents.
Now you already know that. So it would then seem that your intent is to be negative. Maybe I am incorrect. If so, please point out the redeeming part of your message.
I bet if you really tried you could make a major positive contribution. I think you can. I hope you do. A major positive contribution is one that agrees or disagrees with the topic and includes a reason for why you said what you said.— PlumberJoe - PS - I do not think this piece is meant to bash Muslims as much as to point out their agenda in this particular case, which you correctly affirmed. Being disruptive is a political tool, don't you know?— Magistra
- Sophistry, can I answer your question? I attended a Catholic university back in the 60's and my daughter attended a different one only a few years ago.
At no time was any of it "oppressive". I had to minor in philosophy because it was a Jesuit school, but that was good mental exercise, and I enjoyed it. We had more lay teachers than religious. Some of them were even Jews and other non-Catholics. Some were mediocre and others were unforgettable. As with any school.
Many of the students were of no particular religion or even atheists. Some of my teachers were better than others, but I was generally well educated. My daughter had some great teachers also at her school and one class took her to Italy for foreign study. She had a ball that semester.
There were no requirements to attend services or act in any special way. We had a short prayer before class. So what? Especially appreciated before exams.
You have to understand that "practicing Catholic" really means being aware of your values all the time. If it does not inform your life and influence your behavior, then you are a Catholic in name only.
And what is the point of that?— Magistra - First, C. U. is not that great. Sorry, C. U. alums. Next, it boggles the mind why non-Catholic students would ever want to go there. I had a (Catholic) friend who went there, and I couldn't understand why. Honestly. The Catholicism was oppressive, even to a Catholic. These Muslim students are probably just going all ACLU and making trouble, but that doesn't excuse Christine from her typical "jump on Muslims." Enough already. This is absurd, and we get it, but it's not really about Muslims; it's about why anyone would choose to attend a religious university unless they really wanted that religion pervading every aspect of their lives.— sophistry
- Chris, some of my teachers at Saint Joe's were Jewish. As I said above, they stood respectfully as we said customary prayers before class.
Your mention of subterfuge connects with my description of a Turkish organization using tax money to fund American charter schools and siphoning some of it to their religious movement back in Turkey. Martha Woodall of the Inquirer had a couple of articles about that a few months ago.
There are many ways to misuse public money to alter the character of a school in all directions.
But I see that it does not apply in this case. Will be interested in the final court decision.— Magistra - As usual Tony, good stuff. Indeed, there is little likelihood that this will advance to the courts. There is simply no cognizable First Amendment claim, even with the issue of public funds being received by the school. The professor you cited has a history of presenting this sort of pretextual claim, and has in the past also attacked the school for having separate male/female facilities (ever heard of single sex dorms, professor? Not exactly a human rights violation, not exactly 'separate but equal.') Poster lefty makes an important point as well; this is an attempt to siphon Judeo-Christan ethic from the public square, even though it is presented in terms of civil 'rights.' I have no problem with people opposing religion, and attempting to use the existing laws to challenge their place in a secular society. I disagree, and will fight them tooth and nail whenever I have the opportunity to do so. But again, I have no problem with them expressing their particular iteration of the First Amendment. The problem I have is when they use subterfuge, such as this particular complaint and controversy, to do so. At Villanova Law, I remember some Jewish students expressing discomfort with the crosses in the classrooms. And yet, each one made the same important argument: we chose to come to this school, as opposed to attending Yeshiva Law, for example. We should therefore respect this Augustinian school's right to display the symbols of its religious ethic. I respected them for that, immensely. I would hope that Muslim students would be capable of the same tolerance.— Christine
- TonyB -thanks for all the information. It sounds too contrived and convenient. But it sounds as if the law does not require special accommodations for religious or political views not already part of the organization.
I also recall when I was attending a Catholic college and had professors of other faiths. They would follow the school's prescription for prayers before class. A student led the prayers and they stood silently and respectfully. There were non-Catholic students also who remained in respectful silence. No one made a fuss.
My how things have changed.— Magistra - There was an article about this in the Washington Post this morning, which you can find here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/cu-sued-over-muslim-worship/2011/10/27/gIQAidsMNM_story.html
A few important things from the article to keep in mind:
1) Professor John Banzhaf said he filed the complaint with the city based on a Washington Post article in which a Muslim student claimed he had not been allowed to form a group dedicated to Muslim worhsip, but the professor admitted that he himself had not received any complaints from Muslim students.
2) Robert Tuttle, a law professor at GWU who specializes in the separation of church and state, said the city’s anti-discrimination law has a broad exemption for political and religious groups.
The law allows religious and political organizations to give “preference” to people of the same religion or political persuasion “to promote the religious or political principles for which it is established,” Tuttle said.
Banzhaf’s complaint “is not likely to be successful if it’s read the way other courts have read other human rights exemptions,” Tuttle said.
And the language cited as coming from the "preliminary investigative report" appears to actually come from the complaint that was filed. See Banzhaf's press release here:
http://www.prlog.org/11697508-cardinal-charged-with-illegal-discrimination-against-muslims-and-women.pdf
— TonyB - I am sure A Muslim University would not permit any alteration of their religious symbols, and rightly so. If one wants to avail him/herself of the traditions of a private Catholic University,they should be aware of that University's requirements. I am sure Catholic University could have provided a suitable forum for their religious worship.— lport
- I want to add that one of my friends a Baptist wanted to send her daughter to a good private school where she would get some "Christian values". Our daughters are the same age so together we investigated a private Catholic school for girls.
Both girls were accepted, but the school made it clear to the mother that her daughter would not be excused from any of the religion classes or services. All Catholic all day long. She had to agree or they would not take the child. She agreed. That little girl never converted from her mother's faith but she knows her Catholic religion inside out and backwards. She went to Mass and all religious services with her classmates.
She was excused from receiving the sacraments however. We had the honor to be invited to her baptism in her own church. There was never an issue.
It seems that this whole tempest in a teapot is part of an effort to undermine the university's routines.
The danger of mixing public and private. The camel's nose in the tent......— Magistra - I have often written on message boards about the problems with accepting federal money, whether it is for "opportunity scholarships" or Title One, or any other aid. There are always strings attached.
Not sure how this would play out in court, but obviously these students are out to make trouble. I am sure they can go off campus and form any club they want with perfectly blank walls. But they want the university to accommodate them and help them establish their own religious niche within the walls of a private religious university. That takes gall.
This is also why I am leery about privately run charter schools, Chris. There is an Islamist Turkish organization called Gulen that has used our visa laws to import Turkish math and science "teachers" to staff American charter schools, mostly in Texas. They teach Turkish language and culture along with math and science, and funnel money back to Turkey for their religious movement.
Don't forget to use that Latin phrase next time you want to tell them off. No one will know. 8-)— Magistra - If they want to attend a Catholic University, that is fine. If they
want to be given special privileges then that is another case.
I believe that all Catholic rooms in the university should have at
least a crucifix on the wall. If this is not making these students feel comfortable in this issue. I say then they need to go someplace where they will feel more comfortable. I hope that CU will not bend on this issue.
---Frank— FGFreeman - Chris, how about if I slip something in that would pass the censors.
Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum
Vivat semper Latina lingua pulchra 8-)— Magistra - Ditto, Christine. We're in the midst of an all out assault on non-secular elements of our culture- even when some leading the assault are, themselves, on the top rung of provincialism and fundamentalism. In May, 2010, we witnessed how two very different political, cultural, social entities composed of secular elite humanists and so-called palestinians concocted the Mavi Marmara fiasco to embarrass Netanyahu and the zionist state. This latest small, but significant, complaint is simply another component of revising western societal precepts to conform to a deluded new world order. For muslims, it may be just another part of their overall attempt to install sharia law; but, regardless of muslim motivations, it appeals to the extremists in the secular community. Ironically, athiests have found an unlikely ally in its task of deconstructing anything religious, especially Catholicism and its institutions. The left abhors Catholicism because of its strong institutions and its universality. Zionism presents a similar but less threatening dilemma. This loose coalition between muslims and the left may very well be a pact with the devil! Ultimately, the left's willingness to rely on muslim philosophy to help fight its battles may backfire and come back to bite them. But that's something they will deal with AFTER the demise of Christian entities. Look for our own ACLU to join the fray.— lefty
- This is what it's come to. I'm sure they can find a room somewhere on campus, but they want to attract attention. DC is filled with colleges and they pick the one that actually has the word "Catholic" as the title? I have no problem with their admission but really, does the school have to bend over backwards for them?— Roger Podacter
- Yes. — Falls Ed
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Christine M. Flowers
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