They are the walruses -- and they need ice
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They are the walruses -- and they need ice
Ferreira theorizes that ship traffic is diverting the walruses to shore in unusual increasing numbers. But government scientists suspect it has more to do with an increasing lack of sea ice. Walruses have been known to haul out onto land in large numbers in Russia, but never on the Alaska side of their migratory corridor in the tens of thousands, as is being witnessed this year.
Walrus researchers with the United States Geological Survey estimate there could be anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 of the mammals currently taking a rest along Alaska's Chukchi coastline. Ferreira, one of about 234 people who call Point Lay home, thinks the numbers may be even higher. Since only about 20 percent of walruses generally come to shore, scientists suspect another 80,000 walruses may be swimming nearby.
A grim reminder that elections come and go, but the crushing problems that the elections are supposed to address grind on in this country. Speaking of which, it was a kind of a lost day and I'll be covering those elections in Delaware and elsewhere for the Daily News, so there may not be any new posts. Talk among yourselves, as there is a lot going on in the world.
Comments (162)
Looks like Bloated Billy Atkinson's worst nightmare http://www.dependablerenegade.com/dependable_renegade/2010/09/just-remember-kids.html
— Les Ismore
Comment removed.
==]] .Mann (PSU) and his cronies are saying that CO2 is THE causative agent of this warming trend. [[== ==]]
Let's stick to what you said, for now downy. You said this:
"Graphs of CO2/temperature over the last 350K years show no correlation between the 2."
Now, look at this graph:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Co2-temperature-plot.svg
Once again, you isolate relatively short term time frames, fail to account for any potential unexplained (short-term) variables, and conclude that there is no correlation? Unbelievable. No one could look at that graph and logically conclude that there is no correlation between CO2 and temperature.
Now, as for what Mann et. al., including the vast majority of climate experts, have to say. Obviously, the causal relationship is hard to establish, but when you account for other climate variables, such as sunspots and Milankovitch cycles, what remains is a strong correlation between CO2 and temperature. Does that mean that higher temperatures might be causing higher levels of CO2? Of course, but then you need to determine what other causal factors might be in play. If you look at the long-term variation of CO2 and temperature, no other variables can explain that strikingly correlated pattern over a period of hundreds of thousands of years.
If higher temperatures caused higher levels of CO2, then what caused the higher temperatures? You have no answer that explains the larger pattern of temperature trends. To the contrary, however, if the causal relationship is reversed - higher levels of CO2 cause higher temperatures, we can see the factors that raised/lowered the levels of CO2 in the time periods where both CO2 and temperatures increased or decreased.— Talking point sleuth- Look at this link, downy. It has another nice little picture where you can see CO2 and temperatures plotted on the same graph. You think there's no correlation? Oh, my sides:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm
The point is, downy, the causal relationship between CO2 and temperatures is not simply one way. Such an explanation would explain the periods of lag that you, wrongly, say disproves theories of AGW. For example, orbital oscillations cause higher temps, which raises CO2, which drives temps even higher. In other words, just because higher temps do cause higher levels of CO2 does not mean that pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere wont' raise temps.
Here, I think that you'll find their concluding bullets helpful in straightening out your confusion:
* Deglaciation is not initiated by CO2 but by orbital cycles
* CO2 amplifies the warming which cannot be explained by orbital cycles alone
* CO2 spreads warming throughout the planet
— Talking point sleuth - Bloated Billy, I strongly believe you have every right to do what you do in your mom's basement. As long as it is just you and doesn't involve minors. It is Christine that would condemn those actions to hellll.— Les Ismore
- Comment removed.
- "...If anything, CO2 levels respond to varying temperatures,"
Let's first note that the comment above from downy contradicts his previous posts in two ways: (1) it assumes a correlation between CO2 and temps, (2) it assumes a causal relationship between CO2 and temps. Previously, downy said that CO2 and temps are not correlated and completely independent variables. I guess he's having some trouble keeping his thoughts strait, huh?
And after arguing that CO2 can't possible raise temps because higher temps cause an increase in CO2, downy will argue that:
"Chickens do not lay eggs, because they have been observed to hatch from them".
Too funny.— Talking point sleuth - "Yes, let's send someone to Washington to clean up the fiscal mess who cant even balance her own checkbook." Why not, Obama picked a guy who can't pay his taxes properly to head the Treasury.— RG
- "Why not, Obama picked a guy who can't pay his taxes properly to head the Treasury."
Well, well. RG with yet another "Mommy, mommy, they did it firrrrrrrrssttttt, mommy."
Like clockwork, RG (aka "Old Faithful") shows up to justify something negative by whining that "they did it first."— Talking point sleuth - "Like clockwork, RG (aka 'Old Faithful') shows up to justify something negative by whining that 'they did it first'."
You'd have a point if you can prove that RG's motivation for his comment was justification of a negative. However, if his comment was meant to point out a lack of consistentcy in criticism from Les, inasmuch as Les never complained about Obama/Geithner, then he isn't really saying "they did it first"...rather, he would be saying "Les is a toady". Now, RG is not clear as to the meaning of his comment, and you have not established his motivation.— legatus 
Legatus, your talent as a playground lawyer is duly noted.- There's only one explanation for Ms. O'Donnell's outspoken views on self-fornication and abstinence. She's secretly part of Obama's master plan to discourage reproduction of white christians. Bill O'Reilly needs to be alerted.
- "You'd have a point if you can prove that RG's motivation for his comment was justification of a negative. "
Right. Because whining "Mommy, mommy, they did it fiiirrrrssstt," isn't really whining "Mommy, mommy, they did it fiiirrrrssstt."
Too funny. One of these days, if only by accident, one of Attytood's "conservatives," ARts, or libertarian extremists will step up and show some accountability. Well, provided that the blog remains around long enough.— Talking point sleuth - "your talent as a playground lawyer is duly noted." Isn't "playground lawyer" an unnecessary redundancy?— legatus
- "Right. Because...." I'm right...period.— legatus
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