The O.C. and the G.O.P.
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The O.C. and the G.O.P.
There's an interesting article from the New York Times tonight about the changing demographics of Orange County, long-known as the right-wing mecca that gave us Richard Nixon and John Wayne and was a hotbed of the John Birch Society. Here's the money paragraphs:
At the end of 2009, nearly 45 percent of the county’s residents spoke a language other than English at home, according to county officials. Whites now make up only 45 percent of the population; this county is teeming with Hispanics, as well as Vietnamese, Korean and Chinese families. Its percentage of foreign-born residents jumped to 30 percent in 2008 from 6 percent in 1970, and visits to some of its corners can feel like a trip to a foreign land.
The demographic changes that have swept the county reflect what is happening across the state and much of the nation. It has happened slowly but surely over the course of a generation, becoming increasingly apparent not only in a drive through the 34 cities that fill this sprawling 789-square-mile county south of Los Angeles, but also, most recently, in the results of a presidential election. In 2008, Barack Obama drew 48 percent of the vote here against Senator John McCain of Arizona. (By comparison, in 1980, Jimmy Carter received just 23 percent against Ronald Reagan, the conservative hero whose election as California governor in 1966 and 1970 was boosted in no small part by the affection for him here.)
Two things here really dovetail with the things we've been discussing. One is that this is a clear-cut indicator of one of the major sources of social anxiety for the white, middle-class, 50-and-over folks who are moving into the Tea Party movement. But the numbers also suggest that -- whatever hay the political right may be able to make in the 2010 elections -- in the long run that Tea Party movement may be doomed, unless the GOP shifts gears quickly and comes up with some kind of appeal to younger people and at least some non-whites.
Programming note: I'm going to be appearing as a guest in the 10 o' clock hour on WHHY's "Radio Times" (90.9 FM in Philadelphia) to talk about both the book and this weekend's Beck rally. So among other things, you'll have a chance to call up and harass me verbally for a change.
Comments (65)
This is wishful thinking on your part, Will. I lived in OC CA for many years and still live near there today. Many of the Koreans and Vietnamese you mention are small business or small shop owners and, as you might imagine, are not happy with the policies that are being pushed or the way government is being run. This is not a racial issue as you simplistically imply (once again) but rather an ideological one. If you believe that CA (and especially OC) is/are somehow becoming more liberal then take a look at voting results for 2009 ballot initiatives Props 1A - 1E. These liberal initiatives, all designed to take more taxpayer money for the state and avoid dealing with CA's eternal budget problems, were soundly defeated in every county in CA including liberal Meccas LA and SF.— PhillyTru
I love Glenn Beck. I hope you're angry now.
will, since you really don't understand the Tea Party movement, you really aren't qualified to comment about it. GIGO.— rudytbone- Hey Will, I am of Asian descent. My parents came to the US the legal way. I believe others should do the same. I have a huge problem with illegal aliens, i.e. those who sneak into here. So, how does all this make me racist lol?— texas.troubadour
- Watch out for those hardballs being tossed at you on Radio Times today. Maybe Dick Polman will show up to provide a little balance from the NPR right. I've tried calling to present a conservative point-of-view on controlling government spending and Ms Moss-Coahne just starts talking right over you, like a good little fascist who knows where her bread is buttered.— tr88
- So, Phillytru, how does any of what you said dispute what Will wrote about? I didnt see anything racial in what Will posted, and did see him comment only on the ideological issues. The tru(th) is, the longer this trend continues, the harder is will be for hard line (re - tea partiers) republicans for find votes with a more diverse population.— Master Dreamz
Comment removed.- Comment removed.
- Poor Bunch, just doesn't understand anything. Hispanics, Koreans, Vietmanese, etc., are ALL culturally conservative.
- Master Dreamz, you don't see anything racial is what bunch wrote? Wha wha what? Aside form the whole post being about race, Bunch likes to continue the mantra that people against his liberal ideas are racists. Apparently that's what drives all conservatism in his eyes.— spags
- Comment removed.
- billy can only play the easy games.— SteveMG
- batboy hereby gets a new nickname. bile.atkins— Talking point sleuth
So according to Will all immigrants are liberal ? thats a bit of a stretch even by his standards. The fact is Will many imigrants come from 'liberal' countries, and dont want the experiment repeated here, because unlike people like Will we have experianced the full ideology of liberalism and we know the problems it creates. Whats needed is both sides need to move to the center, but what I have been noticing is the move to the far left by the democrat party could spark a civil war withing that group as the blue dogs begin to vote with the conservatives, its something that happened in the British Labour party thirty years ago that resulted in twenty years of conservative rule. Sadly we found out even after being out of power so long the libs were unable to run a tram let alone a country, and you guys are finding out the same thing. Tax and spend is a slippery slope that has ruined countries across Europe, so why go that route?.— PAEnglish- "I've tried calling to present a conservative point-of-view on controlling government spending and Ms Moss-Coahne just starts talking right over you, like a good little fascist who knows where her bread is buttered." --How awful. I've never heard great Americans like Sean Hannity and Bill O' do this.— furiousj
- There is a growing Vietnamese population in South Philadelphia. If you check their voter registrations you'll see an overwhelming majority of them are with the GOP. Perhaps that is why the powers that be in Philadelphia have done everything in their power to discourage foreigners from setting up shop in our city.— Grill
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"If you believe that CA (and especially OC) is/are somehow becoming more liberal...." . . . Isn't it a question of OC becoming less xenophobic? And isn't that the lesson for the GOP?
Republicans need to learn to pander better to the minorities. They should learn that promising something for nothing at the expense of "the rich" gets you lots of votes.- [[[=== TPS has plenty of time to make up cutesy nicknames because she is incapable of performing an independent analysis of the data at hand. ===]]] Pretty funny, given that our beloved Attytood Republican toadies are obsessed making up "cutesy nicknames" to use when referring to me. Also amusing is that downy likes to refer to me as a "she," because, you know, he's so above things like "cutesy nicknames." But funniest of all is that downy talks about the inability for analysis of data - when he, laughably, is on record as saying that the majority of black people are "unthinking" and analogous to grazing ungulates, because they don't believe that voting for Republicans is in their best interests. If the majority of black people only had downy's analytical skills, they'd realize that unlike him, they are too stupid to see that they are being exploited by Democrats, and that they'd be much better off if they voted for people that they don't believe will best serve their interests. Oh, my sides.— Talking point sleuth
- [[[=== They should learn that promising something for nothing at the expense of "the rich" gets you lots of votes. ===]]] More evidence of the reason why Republicans will continue to fail to get the minority vote. Over and over again we see Republicans on this board expressing the opinion that it isn't that minorities vote Democratic because they feel that Democrats represent their interests better than Republicans. No, according to our beloved "conservatives," minorities vote for Democrats because they are too stupid to see that they are being exploited. You see, something that is so obvious to our "conservative" brothers is beyond the reasoning skills of minorities. If minorities only had the smarts of folks like spocky, they'd realize that they would be much better off voting for candidates who get support from people, like spocky, who go on blogs to post comments about how stupid minorities are. Hilarious.— Talking point sleuth
- "As these folks would have worked hard for their money they probably want to keep it rather than having go into a 'redistribution of wealth'. Sounds like conservatives to me." I bet they hated bailing out the banks, then -- although one hopes that they can now at least readily get a loan two years down the road from that particular episode of upwards wealth redistribution.— Billy Ray Winthorpe
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- --snip-- GOP Losing Vietnamese American Voters ... among Vietnamese Americans born in the United States, Barack Obama won 69% of the vote and Barack Obama won 60% of the vote of Vietnamese Americans between the ages of 18 and 29. While these two cohorts are minorities within the broader Vietnamese American community (15% and 25%, respectively), obviously these groups are the demographic future of the Vietnamese American community...This trend has been noted in Vietnamese American strongholds like Orange County, California and Houston, Texas. In the latter case, a Vietnamese American Democratic businessman named Hubert Vo defeated a longtime incumbent Republican state representative in 2004 to become the first Vietnamese American in the Texas State Legislature. There are many reasons for this shift away from the Republican Party among Vietnamese Americans. In some ways, one can argue that this is a simple example of assimilation among younger Vietnamese Americans, in that their voting patterns are coming more into line with their same-age counterparts in other ethnic groups and with other Asian Americans. Also, this may just be a classic example of native-born voters drifting away from the home-country orientation of their immigrant parents, particularly given that it has now been 35 years since the end of the Vietnam War and the possibility that the communist government in Vietnam will be overthrown has largely faded, thus diminishing the salience of that issue as a voting issue. However, there is evidence (as discussed in the articles cited herein) that this shift is also because of perceptions among Vietnamese Americans that the Republican Party is becoming less welcoming of immigrant populations, and Vietnamese Americans have shown some support for liberal domestic policy initiatives, such as healthcare reform. --snip-- http://www.frumforum.com/gop-losing-vietnamese-american-voters— Talking point sleuth
- [[[=== I get a tremendous kick out of the fact that you answer to those nicknames. ===]]] Interesting, bile.atkins, because you likewise respond to nicknames like batboy and batty. So, I guess in your opinion if someone responds to those kinds of nicknames it's because they acknowledge the accuracy of how they describe the person they're referring to? Well, then, no doubt you will respond to bile.atkins, now won't you? Too funny.— Talking point sleuth
- --snip-- House Democrats were thrilled by the passage of their major health care legislation, but perhaps no development on Saturday tickled them more than winning the vote of a single Republican: Representative Anh “Joseph” Cao of Louisiana. Mr. Cao (pronounced gow; rhymes with cow), a freshman from New Orleans, was elected last year in an upset victory over Representative William J. Jefferson, a Democrat who was under indictment on federal corruption charges at the time and has since been convicted.... Mr. Cao’s vote offered a rare break in ranks for the House Republican minority, which has tried hard to stay unified on major political issues. On the economic stimulus measure, for instance, the Republicans voted unanimously in opposition. But it was not the first time Mr. Cao broke with his party. He was one of 29 Republicans to join Democrats earlier this year in voting to reauthorize the Children’s Health Insurance Program....Mr. Cao, a lawyer, is a minority in several senses: a Republican amid a crowd of Democrats; a Vietnamese-American in an overwhelmingly black district. In his election campaign last year, Mr. Cao promised ethics and integrity. He was born in Vietnam (he is the first Vietnamese-American member of Congress) and he fled with two siblings after the Fall of Saigon in 1975, moving to live with an uncle in Indiana... --snip--— Talking point sleuth
- "GOP Losing Vietnamese American Voters" - TPS, the headline might well read, "Dems losing ALL VOTERS"... November is coming.... November is coming...— IggleFan68
- "Whats needed is both sides need to move to the center, but what I have been noticing is the move to the far left by the democrat party..." English, I agree with you that both parties need to move to the center; the Democrats for their part need to recognize the importance of small business even as they rightly excoriate the big boys. On the other hand, though, as the Republicans vilify the nonworking poor, they ought to give a little thought to the hard-working poor who far outnumber them. It seems to me that that movement by the Republicans towards the far right has been the more pronounced one. To be fair, a lot of our trouble has been the result of factors outside of politics, most notably the rise of the rest of the world as competitors in productive industry. (As an Englishman you can relate, right?) The Republican penchant for favoring corporations and the uber-rich hasn't exactly helped the rest of us negotiate that sea change, though. It's harder than it used to be for working folk to work themselves into a share of the capital.— Billy Ray Winthorpe
- Iggy - the article speaks to long term trends of minority populations - as does Will's post. You were the one yesterday asking why I would post off topic, and now today you post off-topic? Please explain. Also interesting is that the article I linked was written by a long-time conservative who has been hammered by extremist "conservatives" because he has decried how the Republican Party is catering to lunatics.— Talking point sleuth
- ===]]] they ought to give a little thought to the hard-working poor who far outnumber them. ===]]] Clearly, they have given them some thought, Billy Ray. In fact, quite a bit of thought. You see, they have "analyzed" the data very carefully, and concluded that minorities simply aren't as smart as our beloved "conservatives," and that minorities vote Democratic because they're too stupid to see that they're being exploited.— Talking point sleuth
- [[[=== "Whats needed is both sides need to move to the center, but what I have been noticing is the move to the far left by the democrat party..." ===]]] Gotta say, that is absolutely hilarious coming from someone who has said that all American Muslim citizens should be forced to take a loyalty oath or be deported.— Talking point sleuth
- Writing's on the wall - whites will be the minority by 2040. Thus the American Kristallnact on muslims, mexicans, and any other non-lily americans. They've been through denial, now they are working on anger. Next will be bargaining. Ultimately, their temper tantrum will give way to the sad realization that their anger and hatred was for nothing - and they will still be the minority. Chin baggers, unite - your time is running out.— CiceroSpuriousDeodatus
"Whats needed is both sides need to move to the center, but what I have been noticing is the move to the far left by the democrat party..." I love this meme. In the last 20 years Democrats have moved to the right (talk and action are two different things, PA) and Republicans have moved to the far right. So where, exactly, is that "center"?— Hamlet- Two parties funded by big business doing their bidding. American politics is soooo hard to follow.— Hamlet
- ===]]] In the last 20 years Democrats have moved to the right [[[=== Wow! Where have you been, Hamlet. Have you missed our far-left, extremist, communist/socialist president, who advocated health insurance reform that was more or less identical to the reforms proposed by mainstream Republicans a very short time ago - a type of reform very similar to that proposed by one of the leading Republican candidates to be the Republican nominee for president only two years ago? You know, the "socialist" president that has lifelong financial sector bigshots crafting his economic policies? Don't you know "socialism" when you see it?— Talking point sleuth
The thing about young voters, whether minority or not, is that they are YOUNG. Their views are not set in stone, in fact, they are quite likely to change over time. When I was 20 (or even 30) I was a lot more liberal in my political outlook than I am now. Life has a funny way of showing you just how much you didn't know when you were young. There's no guarantee the young minority voters who voted overwhelmingly for Obama and overwhelmingly are registered Democrats will stay that way forever -- or even for very long.— JimA1- Sorry, TPS. I forgot about the Marxists from Goldman Sachs who advise the President.— Hamlet
Billy Ray - I agree with a lot of what you said at 11:52a but if you look at it the Bush tax cuts completely relieved many of the working poor of any tax burden yet as long as it is hammered home by the left that the Bush tax cuts were only tax cuts for the rich that perception becomes reality for many working poor. I'd be interested in any ideas from either party that increases wages for the working poor but with the current world economy there are always going to be places in the world where manufacturing jobs are going to go to where wages of unskilled workers are lower. Short of huge tariffs on foreign made goods (which I don't reject out of hand) how do you bring that work back to Americans?? This is one of my bringest problems with allowing so many illegals into the U.S. - they suppress wages. People always want to say that illegals are the only ones who will do that work but the truth is they are the only ones who will do that work for that wage - why work those jobs when the government provides more for not working. Now if there were no illegals to work those jobs which can only be done in the U.S. - in order to get that work done wages would need to increase to a point that is greater than what the government provides.— bird11- Hamlet - you almost ruined my weekend I thought for sure I'd see the Beck pie face, thank God the Phillies swept or I'd be really P.O.'d at you right now.— bird11
- "I'd be interested in any ideas from either party that increases wages for the working poor" If you beleive the government should or could have a role in determinign salaries and wages, then you aren't really in favo of free markets.— RG
- "Don't you know "socialism" when you see it?" He's a corporatist when it comes to business in that he'll allow them to socialize losses and force people to buy their products. But to cancel that out, he'll buy votes by favoring moderate levels of wealth distribution.— RG
- Well, I thought about how it might offend your sensibilities, Bird, so I decided not to pie Beck. He has you to thank for that narrow miss.— Hamlet
- "Thus the American Kristallnact" I'm fairly sure you don't understand the meaning or historical signifigance of this term. Or you're simply a drama queen.— RG
- Hamlet, offend me??? I was looking forward to it!! It might have actually added something to the non-event attended by 85,000 to 600,000 people.— bird11
- Fox News is not claiming a million attended? They disappoint me.— Hamlet
- Actually to correct myself I refer to the Beck rally as a "non-event" but to whatever degree it did raise money for the SOWF it was worthwhile.— bird11
- Let's not forget that many of the new majority living in OC are not yet citizens, but you can bet that many of them probably vote because of lack of controls.— frankfj
- To be fair, a lot of our trouble has been the result of factors outside of politics, most notably the rise of the rest of the world as competitors in productive industry....... Billy Ray, Yep totally agree , once again the US seem to be on the same road as the UK was thirty odd years ago. These days theres hardly any industry left in Britain, the car industry now comprises of Toyota, and Nissan, Jaguar is owned by an Indian company that makes tractors, Rolls Royce is owned by the Germans, same as the icon of the British motor industry the Mini. no shipbuilding, the steel plants are closed, the fishing industry has gone and its cheaper to import coal from Poland so no coal industry either. What started the decline was high taxation, and an incredibly incompetent labour government, then just as we started turning things around under Thatcher there was a recesion. Now most jobs have been sourced out to Eastern Europe or India, and like here the multi nationals import their product back into the country. I personally think companies closing plants here and moving overseas should pay a tax on every job they cut to do that and then pay a surcharge tax on every item they import back, make them pay for the jobs they throw away. If that starts a trade war then so be it, since the US imports way more than it exports any country that starts one loses big time.— PAEnglish
- Reasonable people see the left smearing people here and they will pay dearly for it in November.— tr88
- Back to back chicken shack. Son of a gun, better change your act. We're all confused, what's to lose? You can call this song, the United States Blues. Wave that flag, wave it wide and high. Summer OF RECOVERY done, come and gone, my, oh, my.— bird11
- TPS -- my post was relevant (kind of). If I think generally (which is always dangerous), it would make sense to me that first & second generation immigrants would be extremely conservative -- you have to earn what you get, work hard, live the American dream. As you start to get later 2nd-3rd generation, I think that it would be natural for the "immigrant population" to more closely resemble the overall US population in terms of liberal/conservative leaning.— IggleFan68
- [[[=== Fox News is not claiming a million attended?===]]] No. But Michelle Bachmann is. --snip-- "we're not going to let anyone get away with saying there were less than a million here today — because we were witnesses." --snip--— Talking point sleuth
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- [[[[==== Since there are more women than men in America it is logical to assume you are female until it stated otherwise. ===]]] Classic "logic" from downy. What percentage of commenters on blogs such as this one do you think are male, downy? Do you think it's as much as 5%? Maybe 10%? The point of referring to me as a female was clear, downy. It was the same "cutesy" juvenile game that most all of us play on this blog - so why do you feel some need to pretend like you're above it when obviously you aren't? Have an ounce of accountability, downy. Your intent was clear, and you're just embarrassing yourself even more than usual by pretending that it wasn't. As for the content of your "analysis," what was inaccurate about what I wrote? You have stated over and over that in your superior wisdom, you feel that the majority of black people are unable to see that they are "hurting themselves" by voting for Democrats - something that you claim is obvious. You have said that their voting trends indicate that most black people are "unthinking" and members of a herd. Obviously, downy, most black people feel that as bad as things are in the "inner city," they would be worse if they voted for Republican candidates. Maybe if fewer Republicans expressed the kind of contempt that you express towards black people, more African Americans would vote Republican; but as long as Republican elitists like you regularly insult the majority of blacks, that seems highly unlikely.— Talking point sleuth
- That is your big hope Will? That the over 50 Tea Party people just bend over and die? Hmmm well I would not count on that just yet.— zjimmyjcb
- ===]]] When you grow up you will see that folks take care of what was earned more than what was given. [[[=== Fascinating logic there, downy. So, just to clarify, can we assume that in making that statement in connection to your argument about how most black people vote (according to you, like "unthinking members of a herd), you are now saying that most black people don't "earn" what they have? Please, do explain more. This should be fascinating.— Talking point sleuth
- Do you want me to get naked and start the revolution?— bird11
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- ===]]] once again you provide data that supports my assertion [[[=== Your laughable assertion was that it was "logical" that you referred to me as a "she" because the general population is more than 50% female - but the vast majority of people who post on this blog are clearly male. You really are that dense, aren't you?— Talking point sleuth
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- ===]]] It is the lack of a threat to switch parties that hurts the bargaining power of the inner city blacks. [[[=== So, according to your logic, African Americans should vote for Republicans even though they don't believe that Republicans represent their best interests - because voting for candidates they don't support will increase their bargaining power with the candidates they do support? Wow! That's really some logic there, downy. When was the last time you voted for a candidate you didn't support because it would increase your "bargaining power" with candidates that you do support? According to your logic, Republicans and groups such as white evangelicals should start voting en masse for Democrats? Or is it only African Americans that should vote for candidates they don't support. And I love how now you've reduced your argument. What's happened to the part where you explained how "unthinking" the majority of black voters are? Where's the part where you explain that the the majority of blacks are unable to see that they're being exploited by Democrats, something that you say is so obvious? And, please, do explain your comment about how people who earn something appreciate it more. What does that have to do with how the majority of black people vote? Do tell, downy.— Talking point sleuth
- Classic. Is this comment from the Onion or a rightwing blog? You make the call. --snip-- SALINA, KS—Local man Scott Gentries told reporters Wednesday that his deliberately limited grasp of Islamic history and culture was still more than sufficient to shape his views of the entire Muslim world. Gentries, 48, said he had absolutely no interest in exposing himself to further knowledge of Islamic civilization or putting his sweeping opinions into a broader context of any kind, and confirmed he was “perfectly happy” to make a handful of emotionally charged words the basis of his mistrust toward all members of the world’s second-largest religion. “I learned all that really matters about the Muslim faith on 9/11,” Gentries said in reference to the terrorist attacks on the United States undertaken by 19 of Islam’s approximately 1.6 billion practitioners. “What more do I need to know to stigmatize Muslims everywhere as inherently violent radicals?” “And now they want to build a mosque at Ground Zero,” continued Gentries, eliminating any distinction between the 9/11 hijackers and Muslims in general. “No, I won’t examine the accuracy of that statement, but yes, I will allow myself to be outraged by it and use it as evidence of these people’s universal callousness toward Americans who lost loved ones when the Twin Towers fell.” --snip--— Talking point sleuth
- Uh oh, there's a rising tide of lefty violence. Wonder if Will will write a book about this?http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/anti-tea-party-groups-turn-violent— RG
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- "Do you want me to get naked and start the revolution?" Uh, we'll settle for you lighting off a couple of bottle rockets, Bird, but thanks for offering.— Hamlet
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