Abe's 200th: Was he our greatest Republican?
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Abe's 200th: Was he our greatest Republican?
Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against us, nor frightened from it by menaces of destruction to the Government nor of dungeons to ourselves. Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.
-- Abraham Lincoln, delivering his anti-slavery speech at New York's Cooper Union, Feb. 27, 1860.
I guess you could call Lincoln the original '60s radical -- 1860s, of course. Today the world honors the Great Emancipator on his 200th birthday, and rightfully so. He was also the first Republican president -- and in this present era of madness it's worth noting that the Party of Lincoln has produced some other great American leaders. The list would have to include Teddy Roosevelt, a force for progressive causes from scenic preservation to food safety, and Dwight Eisenhower, who understood the importance of a strong infrastructure and tried to warn the nation about the dangers of the military-industrial complex.
So who do you think was the greatest Republican president? Is Lincoln a slam dunk. How come none of the candidates for GOP chairman in 2009 even paid lip service to the 16th president?
Discuss.
Comments (66)
I can't believe I'm continuing this argument. If you would have written "we should always respect the sacrifices made by our soldiers", certainly I and anyone else would agree with you. But instead you cited white Union soldiers dying for their country as an example as to why America isn't racist. I'm sorry, this is absurd, even for this blog.— pagoda- --snip-- Civil War historian James McPherson has studied the diaries and letters of 1,076 soldiers, Union and Confederate, officers and enlisted men, from every region of the country that sent soldiers to the war (For Cause and Comrades, 1997). Using these resources, he offers answers to the question: Why did men fight in the Civil War? McPherson looks at three categories of motivation: initial, combat, and sustaining (why so many men who had entered the war in 1862 reenlisted and fought until the end in 1865). McPherson finds two primary motivations for initial enlistment: first, young men's romantic visions of war and heroism; second, the concept of doing one's duty for country, state, home, and family. Related to the concept of duty were 19th-century ideals of masculine honor (i.e., refusing to do one's duty would bring shame on the individual and his family, while willingly taking on one's duty would bring honor on all concerned.) Combat motivations were more complex. --snip--— Talking point sleuth
- con't.... Part of what sustained all soldiers during combat was the body's rush of adrenalin under extreme stress, what some psychologists have called "combat narcosis." But to fight in battle after battle, soldiers also needed to deal with their fears before the fighting began. Soldiers who did not break and run or try to avoid battle tended to be motivated by the quality of their officers, their religious faith, and their commitment to their comrades. The last quality was related both to the positive traits of courage and duty as well as to trying to avoid the negative traits of cowardice and shame. As McPherson puts it, "Civil War soldiers went forward with their comrades into a hail of bullets because they were more afraid of "showing the white feather" than they were of death." According to McPherson the third type of motivation – sustaining motivation – was the key to many soldiers who fought on long after their initial desire for glory had disappeared in the realities of fatigue, injury, and the death of comrades.— Talking point sleuth
- con't.... One sustaining motivation was the support soldiers received from home, both in letters and in visits on furlough. As the war dragged on and casualties mounted, another motivation, particularly during combat, was revenge for injured and dead comrades. The primary sustaining motivations, however, were rooted in soldiers' deepest beliefs about themselves and their country. Only a minority of Union soldiers (probably 3 in 10, as McPherson estimates from his sample) had gone to war seeking the abolition of slavery, both because they desired the freedom of slaves and because they believed that slavery had disastrous effects on American society. Many Union soldiers, however, fought for four years as ardent opponents of abolition. What was their primary sustaining motivation? McPherson finds that again and again, those soldiers who fought the longest and hardest were motivated by patriotism, by a strong commitment to preserving their country, or as they usually put it, to preserving the Union. --snip--— Talking point sleuth
Comment removed.- Hmmmm. Let's read that again, shall we? "Only a minority of Union soldiers (probably 3 in 10, as McPherson estimates from his sample) had gone to war seeking the abolition of slavery, both because they desired the freedom of slaves and because they believed that slavery had disastrous effects on American society. Many Union soldiers, however, fought for four years as ardent opponents of abolition." Interesting. So, 3 in 10 went to war for the abolition of slavery, and some significant portion of them not because they were focused on the freedom of slaves, but because they were concerned about the effects of slavery on their country. Many of the Union soldiers were "ardent opponents of abolition." Fascinating, isn't it Igglefan?— Talking point sleuth
- Pagoda -- that was not my point. My point was more nuanced then that, and I would have expected you to have understood that. Nowhere did I disagree that America (as every country) exhibits racism (plus sexism, ageism, and just about every other ism), but in no other country in the world did they sacrifice 1000's of people to try to right that wrong. I expect that while our black leaders justifiable decry certain remaining conditions, that they also fully understand that America is a good place, capable of change, strong enough to sacrifice for what is right. It drives me CRAZY to see how the French can have SO MANY American soldiers buried on their soil, but yet still hate America and Americans. TPS -- read my earlier post carefully -- soldiers fight because they are ordered to, no other reason. But they still sacrifice their lives and deserve to be honored, not mocked for their motives.— IggleFan68
- Comment removed.
- My bad, Igglefan. I thought when you said this "...do you deny that thousands of Americans died to end slavery?" and this "....more Americans died to make you free..." you were speaking of white Union soldiers and suggesting they fought for the purpose of establishing freedom for slaves. So, I obviously misunderstood, because when you spoke of many Americans dying to end slavery, you were talking mostly of thousands upon thousands of black slaves who were beaten to death by their white owners, and abolitionists who were killed for fighting to end slavery - because they gave their lives for the purpose of ending slavery. My apologies.— Talking point sleuth
- TPS -- move to strike as non-responsive. You did not answer the question. Apparently, your participation here is not to learn or be honest, but to practice your arguing skills. Have you ever conceded a point, TPS?— IggleFan68
- Iggles- I as much as anyone on this site should know if you write something offensive, future more eloquent postings will get lost. Can you honestly say ("A point I'd like to make to our more darkly colored Americans -- more Americans died to make you free then have died in all the rest of our wars combined. Please remember that when you yell about how racist America is.") is an affective way to make the point spelled out in your 3:38 posting? It is a disservice to all African Americans to say the Civil War "made them free". And you are certainly smart enough to understand this. I've been to Normandy, very very sad.— pagoda
- Comment removed.
- ---}}} But they still sacrifice their lives and deserve to be honored, not mocked for their motives. {{{--- Got no problem with that, Igglefan. I didn't "mock them for their motives." But let's be clear - your original statement indicated that black Americans should be appreciative of the 7 in 10 white union soldiers who were ardent opponents of abolition, and died because of reasons such as that they were drafted into the army. Sorry, but that sounds pretty absurd to me.— Talking point sleuth
- Ok, Igglefan. What point should I be conceding here?— Talking point sleuth
- I will apologize, because apparently I was not clear, and when you are not clear, that's your fault, not anyone else's. My point was that I feel just as the French need to acknowledge the tremendous sacrifice in lives that America has spent to make them free, blacks should also remember the blood that was spilled for them as they continue their struggle. TPS, I'm asking you to concede that American lives were sacrificed to end slavery. Pagoda -- I've been to Normandy, and it's an unbelievable place. ALL Americans AND Europeans should be required to go there -- that's where the word SACRIFICE has true meaning.— IggleFan68
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