Who botched things for Ryan Madson?
Madson stuck with a 1-year deal
Who botched things for Ryan Madson?
Rich Hofmann, Daily News Sports Columnist
Nobody will need to hold a benefit for Ryan Madson. If reports are accurate, he is in the process of doing a 1-year, $8.5 million deal with the Cincinnati Reds. He is safely in the 1 percent. Again, no tears.
But how did this happen?
How did he and agent Scott Boras miscalculate the market so badly?
I still would love to know how the whole Phillies thing went down. Reports stated that a 4-year, $44 million deal with Madson was imminent, and then it suddenly wasn’t. The Phillies went instead for Jonathan Papelbon and for $50 million, and Boras was left to talk about what a strong market still existed for Madson and et cetera.
But was there a real offer on the table to Madson from the Phillies, and if there was, why was it pulled back? If Madson and Boras had said yes at some point in the process, would Madson still have been here?
And who miscalculated the dynamics of the marketplace so badly? Was it Boras, squeezing so hard that the Phillies said ouch? Was it Madson, insisting that he was worth more? Or was there never a real offer on the table, and just discussions that ended when it became clear to the Phillies that they could get Papelbon instead?
If the Phillies thing was real, it was a lot of money, and it came from Madson’s current team. It also was from a team that has, in recent seasons, proven itself to be a market trendsetter. The Phillies -- with Raul Ibanez and Ryan Howard, to name just two -- arrived early and with the keys to an armored car full of cash. They guesstimated the market and they acted first and they were willing to deal with the second-guessers who said they overpaid. In both of those cases, Ibanez and Howard, they likely did overpay and still did not care and still will not care as long as you keep buying tickets at the going rate.
So if there was an offer, or something pretty close to an offer, you wonder what it was like when Madson and Boras discussed it, either face-to-face or on the phone.
Did Boras tell him to sign it? Did Madson want to sign it? Did Boras tell him he could get more from somebody else? Did Madson insist that Boras promised all along to get him more?
In other words, who drove this bus over the cliff?
The spin undoubtedly will be that they decided to take the 1-year deal because the market was lousy, and that if Madson pitches well this season, he will be able to cash in next year -- and it might just turn out that way. But when you do the risk-reward calculation, the risk being carried by Madson is enormous. Pitchers have health issues because that is what they do for a living. Closers have consistency issues because that is the nature of the position, it seems. You pitch in a bullpen, and you do that as your life’s work, and you never know.
Now Madson bears all of that risk and Boras goes about his lucrative business and the Phillies go on with Papelbon. And the rest of us wonder if it was the agent or the client who botched this thing so badly.
He's probably gotta a questionable medical report based on how Cholly runs relievers into the ground. Due for a breakdown, thus buyer's were wary.— UnaBlogger- too many questions and no answers. Madson might have made more in arbitration, but Boras coudnt have both his closers do that and go back to being set up men. That being said, this is only botched if Madson fails this year. When i think of botched, i think of trading Cliff Lee, 5 x 25 for Howard, 3 x 8 for Blanton, 3rd years for Ibanez and Polanco, a 2nd year for Moyer, 3 years for Lidge, and i'll probably be saying in 2014/15, 4 x 12.5 for Papelbon, or Gio and Gavin for Freddy.— jim715
- There is only one way to know if Amaro guessed right. See who is on top when the season ends. My guess? Madson won't do as well with Cincy as he did with the Phillies and Papelbon loves the winner's circle and is still at the top of his game. As far as Howard and Ibanez--which team had the best record in baseball the last two years. Do you know where they would have been without the 200 RBIs those two produced this past season...or was it only 199? Amaro is right until he is proven wrong.— gotedge
- ..and if Madson gets lumped up this year; he will be bottom of the barrel for sure— snwbrdrjeff
- yes, the diff in $ between Papelbon and Madsons failed deal is inconsequential. looking more and more like the Nats might be only team in position to spend big $ on Prince, which would be more bad news for Boras, but bad news for Phils fans too.
how come no reporter can get the goods on the failed madson deal? did rube make everyone in the franchise sign a secrecy document?— jim715 - Clearly, Scott Boras was behind the wheel. Madson by all accounts is a super nice guy and this was his first foray into free agency. No way was he doing all the analyzing and making all the decisions. My guess: Boras overestimated how badly we wanted Madson back and had no clue Amaro was simultaneously talking to Papelbon. Then, something snapped in the discussions with Boras. And we signed Papelbon. I think the jury is way out on whether we paid too much for Papelbon. If he gives us 3-4 years as a top, say, three closer in the NL, probably not. With our starting pitchers and so-so offense (at least at times) we will be ahead in many close games. You don't trust that to Octavio Dotel or Bobby Jenks. You just don't.— eman
- lots of questions in the article, but not the most important one. did anyone think to ask RAJ if he had any questions about his medical charts ? or if how much he's been abused, i mean used, over the last few years is a concern ? i doubt it. these reporters have great command over the english language but have no clue about the intricacies of sports.— UnaBlogger
- The real question is, what was Amaro doing signing Papelbon for $50 million? Amaro is clearly out to lunch and has no sense of the market value of the players he is negotiating with- see Moyer, Ibanez, Howard, Blanton. It amazes me that they let the guy run around spending like a drunken sailor with no rhyme or reason.— jtj06
- If Madson retains a new agent we'll know where most of the blame goes.
I'm a huge Madson fan and he has great stuff but the reality is he's closed only a fraction of what Papelbon has. El Zorro gave you the stats. Kicking the chair and landing on the DL for 2 months in 2010 didn't help his cause. Then last year he had a period where he was mysteriously unable to pitch on a third day. In other words, as much as I like him and as good as we've seen him look great, he didn't exactly prove he's day-in day-out closer for the next 4 years. Don't forget he also gave up the game/series winning HR against SF in 2010. If he has a good year he'll make out financially next year.— s - I'm going to guess that Boras got out word that Madson was close to ready to accept the 4/$44 million offer from the Phils and that Papelbon's agent approached the Phils with word that Papelbon could be had for a similar offer. I don't think the Madson offer was pure 'blue sky' and there was no reason the offer would have been withdrawn. Amaro's explanations have not been satisfactory so that's why I suspect the scenario I've painted. Phillies probably originally assumed Papelbon was headed back to the Bosox.— Claudio Vernight
- If the reports are correct, Boris missed out on two fronts. 1st, had he accepted abritration, the Phillies would have owed Madsen probably $11 million or so on the same one year deal. Instead, its a one year deal for less. He had a 4 year deal for $44 million on the table, but I'm sure Boris kept "nickel and diming" RAJ until it was time for Monty and RAJ to move away from Boris...AGAIN. Boris clients do not make their own decisions...its about setting the market...and getting the Max commissions. Werth is avery weathly man, but not as happy. Madsen was a Philly staple and could have remained as such. But, Boris clients are not loyal. Madsen is in a good place in Cincinnati. He has lost his friends and team mates. Rollins understood this. Sorry to loose Madsen/Werth, but we know Boris clients don't stay in Philly/LA Dodgers/Angels. Dom Brown is a Boris client...PS....move him.— drhoffman
- Boras = Ratzenhaus. They wanted them to show them the money...instead they got shown the door.
DJax...take heed of this.— tpizza - Live by the sword die by the sword! You hire Boras you might get overpaid (Werth)or screwed (madson).— ldt6143
- what a lousy article!— amblereagles
- Maybe he rejected the Phils offer because of his wife. She said she hated the fans a couple years back. Anyway, who cares? Any baseball fan knows Boras is a snake so I'm happy he took a little hit to his rep around the league. Even at the expense of Madson, it's still worth it to see. Plus hopefully his big mouthed wife will now shut-up and have to shop at Walmart because they handle the poor who only make 8.5 per year. Poor baby.— phillyjeffsr
