Well played, Ruben
Why the trade for Cliff Lee makes so much sense for the Phillies.
Well played, Ruben
Rich Hofmann, Daily News Sports Columnist
(AP)
I wanted Roy Halladay. You wanted Roy Halladay. Some people said they didn't care what it took to get him. But, well, come on. There had to be some limit, right?
Now it will be Cliff Lee and right-handed bat Ben Francisco, in exchange for Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson and Jason Donald. Lee is not Halladay. Carrasco & Co. are not Kyle Drabek, Jay Happ and Dominic Brown. These are both true facts. The Phillies and their rookie GM, Ruben Amaro Jr., played this right.
Long-term, we all can agree that the Phils are in better shape than if they had traded Drabek and Brown as part of the package to get Halladay. That isn't to say that Carrasco won't be useful and that Knapp -- a big kid with a huge fastball -- won't end up being very, very good. This wasn't theft. The Phillies did give up four players who could very well end up being major-league contributors. But they kept their big pieces -- Drabek, Brown and Michael Taylor. Again, long-term, this is clearly a win.
Short-term -- ignoring Francisco, a need -- we can boil everything down to this question: which would you rather have in October, Halladay alone or the combination of Lee and Happ?
Let's take an opening-round series against San Francisco as one example. In Game 1, you would have Tim Lincecum against either Lee or Halladay. Neither would have a clear-cut advantage over the other. If each man pitched to expectations, the game likely would be decided in the bullpen -- Halladay or Lee, doesn't matter. Now, go to Game 4. In one case, if they trade for Halladay, it is Moyer/Martinez/Lopez vs. whatever able-bodied guy the Giants can find (remember, Randy Johnson is on the 60-day DL, scrambling everything). Again, you are likely looking at a game decided in the bullpen. In the other case, with the Lee trade, you still have Happ and you suddenly have a clear advantage in Game 4.
Again, if you want to argue that Lee isn't Halladay, that's fair. But the differences are incremental, not enormous. The fact that you get to keep Happ turns incremental into something even smaller, and maybe shrinks the difference to nothing. Again, that's in the short-term.
Now, if Halladay ends up in Boston, the conversation might change. But between then and now, Amaro played this exactly right.
Comments (126)
HMMM? Halladay too? wow! that would be some rotation. but you would'nt have any players worth anything for 5 years, how many world series would we win in that span, one or none? the harsh reality is that halladay can stink up the mound one day and happ can pitch a perfect game the next? halladay would be making a gozillion and happ minimum wage. who would you explain that other than , in this crazy game of baseball, it could happen. if anyone can predict the future please tell me how the rest of the season is going to play out and saturday"s powerball numbers.— 4u2digest- " It is very bad to take jo-boo's rum, very bad !" Ruben Amaro is hoping that his picks don't go anywhere near jo-boo's rum. He rolled the dice and I think that he is as excited as anyone to see what it relates to at the end of the season. I think for sure one victim will be lopez, he showed some promise but looks like he was easily ruffled when the pressure set in, i could be wrong. rotation 1. hamels 2.lee 3. blanton 4. happ 5.whoever wins the spot, or earns it . I see martinez out of the bullpen in long relief,maybe?. no matter what some bodies will be sacraficed for the good of the team. who?when?where? God knows and he's not talking.— 4u2digest
- Yeah, but FIRE WHEELER.— Lpaul
- Now trade for halliday give them what they want, and you have a staff of Halliday, Lee, Hamels,Blanton, Moyer/Pedro... I know the salary structure is out of whack but they can win 3 ws in a row with that pitching staff...— BBAX
- The quality of a trade can not be down graded in the instance where the player coveted originally ends up with a contender. Even though I think that it will play out that way. Imagine if the phils had lost to the brewers in the NLDS last year, and we exited the playoffs in the first round two years running. At that moment, no price would have seemed to high to get Sabathia. The fact of the matter is that last year we were able to get a win against the biggest end of season rental pitcher, I think that we can do it again. Not to mention, Halliday is not going to pitch in the post-season this year, because he will remain a Bluejay. Lastly, if by some divine intervention, and price reduction on the part of Ricardi, Halliday does end up on the Red Sox, its hard to say that is why the Phils were unable to beat them in the post season. I think that the Phils with Lee in the rotation, are the best team in the NL. The Dodgers don't scare me because we will be facing the same team that we beat last year, except that we have improved (assuming that the bullpen steps up and stays healthy). The Red Sox are the second best team in the AL, and will probally be in the world series. We have lost a series with Boston earlier this year, and have not faired well against them in the last few years. I truely believe that the Phils are now, the odds on logical favorite to win the world series. But if Boston ends up taking it over Philadelphia, it will more then likely be impossible to determine that it was the presence of Halliday that caused it, as opposed to the rest of the redsox arsenal.— SethGordon
- Nice article and i couldnt agree more. Im can't believe some of you people still are burning the "Lets Get Halladay" pyres. We have the 2nd best pitcher in the league and have held onto our future....HELLO!!!! But for those of you that disagree and want all the best pitching the league has to offer whilest giving up the future and paying the highest prices consider this saying "Bears make money. Bulls make money. PIGS GET SLAUGHTERED"! Don't be a pig, we are a better team today then we were yesterday.— Pantaphobia
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Oh, Cliff Lee, beneath the milky twilight Cliff Lee, out on the moonlit floor Lift your open hand Strike up the band and make the fireflies dance Silver moon's sparkling So, Cliff Lee.- Negotiating skills by Rubie were A+. Great sign for future. NOW, lets move The Brunt, Mayberry and Madson for Sherrill. Three for one may work for the O's.— mick314
- We have a lot of fans who couldn't tell you who either Lee OR Halladay played for 3 months ago, but are now adament in their insistence that H is the better pitcher. Lee has a lifetime 4.00 ERA throwing to American Leauge bashers on a nightly basis. That ERA could be 3.5 in the NL. And you have to love his numbers in Interleauge play, in which Lee's been dominant.— chrisautumn
- Actually we could use cerrano;)— phigglesfan75
- Lee should like playing in Philly with that defense behind him. A lot is made of the Philly bats but Feliz, Rollins, Victorino, Werth, Utley and Ruiz are among the best at their position if not the best. Ibanez and Howard are also pluses in the field.— Don w
- [The Beast 06:45 PM, 07/29/2009 ... Sorry Moyer, love ya but your not getting it done this year!] ?????? Moyer's leading the team in wins. How's that "not getting it done? The Beast should stop getting his baseball knowledge from WIP.— jman
- [The Phillies haven't had a home grown crew like that since Schmidt, Bowa, Luzinski, Boone, Ruthven, Christiansen, Walk, Bystrom, Noles.] ... Mike l, Noles? You included Noles in that list of contributors? Then why not also mention Jerry Martin and Randy Lerch? .... Noles! Too funny!— jman
- Phillies upgrade their starting pitching, keep their top prospects, and Amaro gives a big "eff you" to that d-bag Riccardi. A TRIFECTA!— jman
- oh, great joy in the bars around philly! 95+% vote their approval! but you know what? ain't like the old days when no one gave a stuff about pitch counts, and if he was on a starter went 9. no reason whatsoever - none! - that a scorching hot hamels couldn't've gone the nine against arizona. ah, but there was a reason! see, that's what you do now: count pitches, put in your bp. so in goes lidge. me, i went out for a walk. came back: whew, he only gave up two. you have a manager like this, his mentality, his rigid following of the modern method, no exceptions, you can have the best five starters in the world, you ain't gonna win it without competent set-up and closer. hey rube: you ain't done yet, babe.— kiwi
- I like the move because i see more upside with the trio that were not sent I also like Happ as a LH bullpen option with spot starting opportunities Could this rotation work: LHs Hamels, Lee; , Moyer and RHs Blanton and some combination of Martinez/Lopez Could this bullpen makeup work: LHs Happ; Romero, Eyre and RHs Lidge, Madson, Park; Condrey & Durbin and some combination of Martinez/Lopez Baring any position player injury - I'm investing on pitching given the way they hit— tmariano
- J. P. Ricciardi is out of a job if he doesn't trade Halliday for some serious talent in the next two days. Pigs get fat, and hogs get slaughtered.— paolibulldog
- Toronto's GM is a knucklehead. He should know that this time next year other teams will know he's desperate to get something decent for Halladay. He should have taken the Phils off without Drabek. Amaro did a great job with a Plan B. Cliff Lee will be great. Already loving next year's rotation of Hamels, Lee, Myers, Blanton and Moyer/someone else.— echosmyron
- Why so many Moyer haters, I do believe he has 10 wins?— DennisAtwell
- happ will be in the pen. The guy has pitched against one team over 500. Gratned it was tough luck loss. Happ again will pitch tonight vs a triple A team in zona. It will be moyer who pitches. I know that hurts but that is who it will be. Unless pedro is on fire which changes everything but I think we all agree that is a long shot.— twentysecs
- BEN FRANCISCO DOES NOT SUCK! My reaction was okay the Phils got a right handed OF to replace Mayberry. Anybody is better than Mayberry this year. I checked out Ben Francisco stats this year. Ben Francisco is leading the AL in OPS in the month of July. NO JOKE! He is 2nd in slugging, 4th in OBP and 1st in OPS. WOW! Check out this link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/split/43/league/al/sort/onBasePct/order/true/minpa/50— XAMIRA
- Sherrill . . . and we're done— phasor
- What was the basis of this team winning last year and continuing so this year? The farm system. Rollins, Utley, Howard, Hamels, Madsen, Happ. The Phillies haven't had a home grown crew like that since Schmidt, Bowa, Luzinski, Boone, Ruthven, Christiansen, Walk, Bystrom, Noles. And they won a series, too! Since then, at last until the last feww years, they neglected the farm which produced what, Scott Rolen over 20 years? You can't keep giving away talent, which is why Amaro did a pretty good job here. Keeping Drabek and Happ means he doesn't have to go running around looking for pitching next year. Taylor could make Werth expendable next season with one year left at reasonable salary. He could bring another reliever or closer if Lidge doesn't get his act back.— mike l
- Toronto is not going to give the Sox another World Series by trading Halliday to them. They'll wait till the offseason.— greenflyer
- the issue here is jagoffs like hoffman, donellon, et al collectively know little if anything about baseball. I have zero respect for their opinions on these matters, and the fact that they all seem to like the trade is a bit frightening. However, that being said, even their limited knowledge does not make this a bad deal. I liken our philly writers to 12 year olds. Shallow, but easily excitable over minor facts.— thingfish
- The Phillies have to ease Moyer out of the rotation, into either retirement, coaching, trade or outright release. You cannot put 4 lefties in your starting rotation and you can't put Happ in the bullpen to keep Moyer. Just look at the numbers. The numbers don't lie. Happ > Moyer, bottom line. I don't care if Moyer still has another year on his contract, we just saved 8 mil next year by not taking on Halladay. I love Moyer but he's going to have to be moved one way or another.— lefty1117
- I've never been an Amaro fan -- always considered him a "favorite son" of the Phillies organizations vs. being an actual knowledgeable baseball guy. However, I have to give him major propos for this deal -- brilliant!— prgirl
Good point usn1223...Phils’ brass & other scouts are saying that Pedro is good to go. he’ll do the standard rehab work in the minors and will be fine pitching down the stretch for the Phillies…my thinking is that the Phils playoff rotation will be Hamels, Blanton, Lee. possibly in that order(left,right,left) depending on the opponent. than either Moyer or Pedro as the 4 starter…beens he is still young & has proven to pitch effectively out the pen, Happ will go back to the BP for the playoffs…so in theory, you put Meyers & Happ in the BP, that solidifies the pen being playoff ready.- Lee knew trade winds were around him and it affected his pitching the last two weeks. This guy is a better fit for the Phillies than Halladay. Finally the Phillies are in a position to drop Moyer from the rotation. Martinez ought to be mid-relief; Lopez ought to be the 2nd RHP after Blanton. Sure nice for a change to have positive options. Dodgers are starting to look over their shoulder. Phillies are only 2 back in the loss column.— 2stepbay
- Bullpen help is coming. Their names are Romero (off the DL), Myers and Pedro. Suddenly this team has a ton of pitching.— birds4ever
- Where does this trade leave Pedro? If he somehow pitches well we could use his right arm in the rotation. But who does he replace? Happ? Moyer? You just can't keep saying use him in the bullpen. Don't forget Myers will most like be in the pen also. So which current pitchers in the pen will go to make room? And if say Moyer/Pedro and Myers are in the pen, I'll argue that Lopez deserves a spot there as well. He's pitched very well and it would be unfair to send him down.— power808
- One bullpen arm and a bench player (infield/middle infield) and the Phils' front office can rest easy knowing they did a great job in allowing this team to truly compete for the Championship this year, next year, and probly beyond that.— MrPhillie
- I thought we should've gotten Diego Marandona— MB2009
- Great deal for now without sacrificing the future. With the acquisition of Blanton last year, and Ibanez, Martinez and Lee this year - plus a great farm system - the Phillies might have demonstrated that they have the best front office in baseball...— Muldog
- This amounts to bullpen help....Happ will go to the pen and Pedro will start next week....maybe Happ could close? That is our weakness unless Lidge finds his groove.— usn1223
Says a lot about our team that we're worried about what AL teams do. If the Jays trade Halladay to the BoSox, they'll never get past the Sox and Yankees, or the Rays for that matter. Why would they kill themselves?- Comment removed.
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- I think there should be an intelligence test before people are allowed to post comments here. It seems an awful lot of people base their opinions on the hypothesis that a large market team that is in competition for and perhaps wins 3 World Series in a row wouldn't have enough money to retain or attract star players. Let's look at a recent example- the Boston Red Sox won in 2004 and 2007. 6 out of 9 in the regular starting lineup had changed. 2 out of 5 starting pitchers had changed and they had a different closer. The Phillies are a large market, big time team...if they choose to act like one. They won't have to bet on minor leaguers to restock their club or watch their stars depart while they can still play.— jtj06
Excellent trade! Well played, indeed...— kjuggs77- Comment removed.
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- Way to go Reuben!!! We will need Happ and Drabek in our rotation in a couple years. Let the Blue Rays swallow Halloday and get nothing. Playoffs go with four man rotation of Lee, Hamels, Blanton and Happ. Meyers will be healthy and in the bullpen. Sorry Moyer, love ya but your not getting it done this year! Can't rely on the Phils scoring 7 runs a game in the playoffs to get a win with him starting.— The Beast
- This trade is a D! no excuses for being the #1 team in all of MLB. 44 sellouts at home. I do believe that is the best. They have the prospects and payroll to get the BEST. Instead they go to the backup plan. BOOO!— grrrr
- Primo - You can have him!— Bigbadrookie
Nice link to the crying in Cleveland, solexy. It will make you feel even better (except the usual nattering nabobs of negativity). Here's the story again: http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/07/cliff_lee_ben_francisco_headed.html— COskier- Comment removed.
- **** HOW MUCH LONGER ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS NONSENSE ABOUT HALLADAY. ITS OVER WITH PEOPLE GET A GRIP. **** The surplus of pitching now presents a different problem, if no further trade is in the works. Obviously we can't carry 6 starters and God knows how many in the bull pen, so based on Charlie's past performance, Veteren Players will get preference over the rookies. The minor league pitchers, called up in emergency to cover for injuries etc. will most likely go back down, where they can get more work. Those that were being fast tracked out of necessity, can now be brought along at a pace that is more conducive to success. Pitchers like Drabek will get to spend the time needed to develope into great rookies when they do come up. This trade has such a huge cascading effect on the organization as a whole I think people will be talking about it for a long time. I figure right about now Bobby Cox is looking for a rope to hang himself with.— Wally 24
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- So far Amaro has impressed, first Ibanez now the Cliff Lee deal. The only problem I see is the Phillies pitching rotation is the perfect rotation to put up against.... the Phillies. Lots of lefthanders in this rotation.— DennisAtwell
I wanted Roy Halladay— primo- Rube is no Rube! Way to not blink and not give away the future!— COskier
- I wonder if "future Phillies star" Lou Marson bothered to show up to sign autographs at the card store in Havertown tonight? What great timing...— bobcitydoc
- I think people would be complaining regardless of what Amaro did. This is a good smart deal that brings the Phillies a number one for the next two years, gives Cole Hamels a chance to solidify his claim to no. 1, and makes for one hell of a rotation if Lee doesn't stay. Did anyone think that Halladay would stay around after next year, get real. If Lee decides not to stay we could be looking at Hamels, Drabek and Savery and team wouldn't be headed off the tracks when the nucleous starts to leave. Nice job Ruben and good post Rich.— Mickey0123
- Like you said playoffs are often decided in the bullpen. With Lidge we're in BIG trouble. Look at how many post season appearances he had last year and was flawless. That's not going to happen this year. We're in trouble without a different closer.— dabirds
- So, how does the starting pitching line up? Lee'ss regular turn looks like its Friday. Does Blanton get pushed back a day? Does this move a very effective so far Lopez (or Moyer) to the bullpen to replace a pretty ineffective Durbin, or do they trade Lopez and or Moyer? What happens when and if Pedro pitches well? Where do they put him?— bobcitydoc
- It will be great when we lose the World Series in 5 games, of which Halladay will be pitching for Boston to win Games 1 and 5. Cliff Lee is 7-9 and has given up the most hits of any AL pitcher this season. Unless Lee can go 9 innings everytime, we still don't have a RELIABLE closer.— springfieldzoo
- I never wanted Halladay. The Lee deal was a great move. I've said this all along, the Phillies don't need Roy Halladay. The Phils needed someone solid and dependable. Cliff Lee is more than solid, and they didn't have to give up the farm to get him. Job well done, Rube.— p-diddy
- The Philles have 2 Aces and a pair of MVP's. Bet the farm and suck out the third Ace and see if anyone can beat a Full-House!— jlhocken
- Cleveland fans are furious and feel they got robbed.....here's the link, and all the messages below....some are hilarious: http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/07/cliff_lee_ben_francisco_headed.html Great job , Ruben !!— solexy
- Let's not forget that this deal may be better in the long term too. With Myers coming off the books this year and Moyer next [assuming they don't re-sign Myers], they can try to sign Lee to a nice long term deal using that money. Doubt they'd even have a chance to re-sign Halladay after next year. But if they can re-sign Lee, that sets them up with Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ and Drabek for 2010 and, quite possibly, beyond.— jmk1512
- good trade. lidge is the problem now and it's a huge one. get some back-end help or it will not matter who your starters are come playoff time when lidge is blowing up...— john dorian
I grade it M for Magnificent. And I also agree with ag (see above post). Our back-end of pen (circa 2009) is a disaster waiting to happen in the post season. Sherrill would be a huge upgrade. And I feel it will happen: Sherrill (or Qualls) for (sorry bout this ) J.A. Happ. Tonight's game at Zona will be 1/3 D-Back fans, 1/3 Phillies fans and 1/3 Oriole and D-Back scouts watching J.A. with their radar guns perfectly calibrated. Great trade Ruben, thanks for giving us a "present" and a future...— Tempmike- Halladay > Lee + Happ. I am happy to see the team improved, but disappointed by the lack of killer instinct (assuming they are done shopping). IMO prospects are prospects. Last year Donald and Carrasco were the bomb, this year its Drabek and Brown, neither who have been close to AAA. Bottom line, the Phillies had the inside track on acquiring the most consistently dominant, shut down pitcher in baseball- which is what you want in the post season. They passed to save $10 million in salary. Cheap, cheap, cheap.— jtj06
- Trading the future for Halladay might have given us a series repeat this year but then 5 plus years of beiung in the middle of the pack. If we can get some bullpen help and a relacement for the bearded one in a utility roll that bats more than he weights we should do great not only this year but next year and we kept Drabek and the two youngesters in the outfield. I also feel this will help us keep Blanton and Pedro Feliz for another few years . The unknown factor is Brett Myersd and can he come back and help in the pen down the strtch because we have no closer at this point. Lidge has been terrible. We need a 4 room lead going into the 9th to fel halfway safe. We will lose Matt Stairs and Scott Eyre to retirement after this year but they should be avble to be replaced for next year.We can also send Mayberry back down to Lehigh Valley and let him play everyday. He is not a bench type player or we can use him as part of a deal before weeks end. Good job Reuben. hwould have been wonderful but not for what Toronto was asking. Now we have 5 starters plus Pedro Martinez if he shows anything.Thats a bonus.Maybe Myers will help in the pen the las month. we need help there to repeat.— naplesbear
- this trade could lead to a six year run. all those pieces move up in three years,signed one or two of our core group, and we are set for years of reaching the mountain top.— dobenbec
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- Many of these comments prove that Philly fans are simply NEVER satisfied...this is a remarkable deal. NONE of the "big 4" prospects have left. Two of the 4 traded are injury-questionable; all are unproven. The Phils get a good right-handed bat with power, and oh, by the way...last year's Cy Young award winner (who had the miserable record of 22-3). And the Phils STILL have their "Toronto package", untouched. Anybody who doesn't think that this was a brilliant bit of negotiating, should become a soccer fan.— JosephL
- I like it. They keep their future. They are like the Eagles but they already have the title.— Jim C.
- I never wanted Halladay. I am glad we got something for a little— cusoraider
- Comrade, that write up on Cliff Lee is from when he went 14-8 with a 5.48 ERA with 30 HR's allowed in 2004, a lot has changed since then. For one, in the last two years he has become a big groundball pitcher and he only let up 12 HR's all of last year and only 10 so far this year.— robm0202
- Posted by dps2080 05:27 PM, 07/29/2009 there are real serious idiots in this town....who in their right mind would think its a good idea to trade the rest of our prospects for halladay so then in 2010 when everyone is gone...we have nothing!!! you should have pass some type of intelligence test to post a comment on here!......Let me ask a couple questions to this. If you won another Series or 2 would you care about 2011(b/c they'd both be here for 2010)? Seriously, would you. If you would you'd be the only one. B/c they only have 2 in a 126 years. And secondly, and more to your point. Why do you assume both/and or neither would resign here? Do you just assume that they would want to leave a team competing for the Series every year. I don't assume that at all. Offer people a fair contract and they will stay. With all that said, it's not prudent to do it. I'm just saying that it's not stupid by those folks to suggest it b/c there is a very obvious upside.— Captain
- Put Lee in a deal to get Halladay now. It is still a salary dump for Toronto. Get Halladay Rube. Do something right today.— kozykoz26
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- Go get Sherrill. Put Lidge on the DL if he can't figure out what is wrong and why his pitches are lacking the movement of last year. Also, see if Martinez will move to the pen (eighth inning guy maybe) and get Myers ready to throw from the pen as well.— Reddgie Noble
- bottom line,lee isnt doc,you get what you pay for— soliteryman
- If we play SF they are a weak hitting team and ya know that good pitching dominates hitting. Hamels, Lee, Happ, Blanton, Pedro, what a rotation!— brinkmang
- Good trade. As long as Halladay stays in Toronto things are looking good for the Phils. But I'll tell ya, I do not want to see the Giants in the playoffs.— tdcuse
- Not to be a downer, but I wouldn't exactly bet the house on Happ in a game 4 just yet, Hof. Let's not forget that he's still a rookie and hasn't faced any NL team twice yet as a starter. That could still very well be Moyer/Pedro/Lopez in that game 4. Just sayin'. I still like the move....I just want to keep the Happ expectations in check for this postseason run.— MTbelly
- Ruben did a great job with this one. Phillies get Lee, the Cy Young winner last year. He was 22-3 with the (ugh) Indians who were 81-81. The four prospects are just that...prospects. Ruben keeps Drabek, Brown, and Happ. Super! Rotation: Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Moyer. When Pedro arrives who goes? Hmmmmmm.— AlanInFlorida
- Points well takend and the key, key word: Bullpen. If these current arms on the DL don't heal adequately then the bullpen won't preserve the fine work of the starting rotation. We need a legitimate reliever. We need George Sherrill. We get a guy like Sherrill it would seem that the Phils would be the favorites.— ROBPHI
- I don't care who gets Halliday. But I hope no one in the hunt gets Halladay. Also, I hope that Hammels(Hamels) builds on last night and that Reuben(Ruben)trades for some back end bullpen help. I also hope against hope that people learn to spell the names of people they attempt to speak intelligently about. But I don't see it happening. Every other word in your note can be spelled wrong and who cares but names that have been shoved down your throat(and on jerseys most of the time) you should know by now.— Captain
Great move. If the Jays trade Halladay into their own division, they're crazy. And who else has--AND WILL GIVE UP--what the Jays want for this guy? The best thing about getting Lee is that the Dodgers WON'T get him. The Phillies could never have gotten past them in the playoffs if Lee was in a Dodger uniform. The BONUS to this deal could be Francisco IF he comes through as the righthanded power bat the Phillies need.- plus plus plus plus plus!!!!!!!!!!!!— phil722
- " . . . secure your chances for three in a row"? Win number two first, pal. Then talk about the third one.— MaC130
- Lets see Lee against Lincecum on Saturday!!!— KevinRx
- there are real serious idiots in this town....who in their right mind would think its a good idea to trade the rest of our prospects for halladay so then in 2010 when everyone is gone...we have nothing!!! you should have pass some type of intelligence test to post a comment on here!— dps2080
- there are real serious idiots in this town....who in their right mind would think its a good idea to trade the rest of our prospects for halladay so then in 2010 when everyone is gone...we have nothing!!! you should have pass some type of intelligence test to post a comment on here!— dps2080
- Sherill would be a nice pick up, however don't count out Myers to be in the pen in august...Was great for us in 07'.— Will.i.Am
- We won't know how good this trade is until we find what Happ, Drabek and Brown turn into.— jtg170
- Even though we wanted Halliday, just a note about Lee. Halliday might not go at all, and so might not be a factor in the playoffs, but if we didn't get Lee, the Dodgers would have. Would we want to face a tough lefty like Lee in the LCS with our lineup? With these pitchers, if we hit we win.— lashner
- A+ by Amaro. Getting Ibanez and Lee in his first year is HUGE. Also getting the 2nd best available pitcher for half the price is incredible. GREAT WORK— ckirk255
- ...I like it. He has a great ERA, especially if you consider its mostly vs. AL. I think he is 12-2 lifetime vs. NL. Plus, we keep Drabek, Haap, Brown and Taylor. Now, get another reliever.— beefbr
- We don't want any playoff game to come down to the bullpen at this point. "Lights on Lidge" needs to get it together or it could be a short October.— fins
- Posted by e4stringer 04:45 PM, 07/29/2009 This is more than just playoffs '09. This positively affects next year (and beyond). While Halladay is certainly an upgrade over Lee, as you stated, it's not huge -- maybe 1-2 wins? The difference in salary (~7 million) affects what the Phils do with Blanton and who they can and will bring back/pick-up for next year. Also, this gives the 2010 team Happ and possibly Drabek at some point. This was an excellent trade. With that being said, prospects are still prospects, and the Phls could still spin any of their "untouchables" for further help before Friday, during the off-season, or at next year's deadline. Nice to have some bullets left in the chamber.....People are talking about the money and frankly money is not a huge issue. The Phillies have a TON on dead money coming off the books after this year. Myers at 8 million per, Jenkins at 8, Eaton at 9-10 and Thome for 6 million. So technically they could take both for a year and a half without significantly raising payroll. But the obviously no more bullets left. Just saying. Trade is fine as long as Roy doesn't end up with another contender b/c to paraphrase another Halladay is the best, you want to get the best.— Captain
- NOW PACKAGE LEE FOR HALLADAY!— Philly Fan in Kuwait
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- Rueben gets an A & respect for not blinking. Riccardi gets a pink slip— Jim7390
- I hope to God the Sox don't land Halliday.— KevinRx
- I agree with philsbirdsflys, why not still package Drabek, Happ & Brown for Halladay and really secure our chances for 3 in a row?? I waited from 1953 until 80' for my first champoinship team (including seeing 64' and black friday in person) and another 28 years for number 2. Give me 2 more before I die given that no other Philly franchise will likely pull one off!!!!— RobertD
- Phils have the leverage with Toronto now, who are going to become desperate to make a move but will abhor the thought of trading with Bosox. Their parent company has warned that it's cutting costs, which is really how Halladay ended up on the market. If I'm the Phils I go back to Toronto with a lesser deal, maybe throw in a bit of cash, and see if they can get them to bite. The future is now - secure the next two World Series with a rotation of Hamels, Halladay, Lee, Blanton,— lefty1117
- I like it. Actually not getting Holiday might mean not winning it all again. But frankly I can't forget the lean years and I am glad to keep prospects and just to think the Phillies might be in the pennant race for many years to come. In the past the Phillies have overrated prospects but if Drabek and Happ are even just better than average we will have them for years after Halladay has a career ending injury in the next 3 years.— sportsdead
- I like it. Actually not getting Holiday might mean not winning it all again. But frankly I can't forget the lean years and I am glad to keep prospects and just to think the Phillies might be in the pennant race for many years to come. In the past the Phillies have overrated prospects but if Drabek and Happ are even just better than average we will have them for years after Halladay has a career ending injury in the next 3 years.— sportsdead
- I like it. Actually not getting Holiday might mean not winning it all again. But frankly I can't forget the lean years and I am glad to keep prospects and just to think the Phillies might be in the pennant race for many years to come. In the past the Phillies have overrated prospects but if Drabek and Happ are even just better than average we will have them for years after Halladay has a career ending injury in the next 3 years.— sportsdead
- Exacto-mundo Rich…Never will forget your blog entry last year before Game 5 of the NLCS in L.A. You described the anticipation of the day beautifully, and for me personally, really set up what winning that game was all about…PHILLY 4-EVER!!!
Great points Rich. Nice job Ruben!— Earl J- Rich, you think Lee automatically leapfrogs Hamels as our Game 1 starter? Lee is definitely more established (more career wins, Cy Young award, etc), but lets not forget Cole did win NLCS and WS MVP last year. He may not appreciate being bumped down to the number 2 guy. Then again, knowing him he'll probably be happy not having to be thee guy they always rely on.— toccheyhockey
- Sorry Rich, I disagree. In your example, you use the Giants as the team we face.....they have great pitching in Lincecum and Cain, but they have 0 offense. If the pitching is equal the Phils win those games based on the simple fact that their offense is MUCH better than the Giants. Everyone must see Happ for what he is, Cole Hamels without the great changeup. When other teams see him again it could be a mess. There was another left-hander who came in young, mowed through the competition the first time around because no one had seen him. And today he is Dontrelle Willis. Happ is not as good as advertised, stop the gushing.— kozykoz26
- Your "the game is decided in the bullpen" tag doesn't exactly give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about our playoff prospects given the way they've pitched lately. Let's hope that gets turned around or Ruben adds a sidecar bullpen deal to the Lee/Francisco trade.— PA Native
- get some bullpen help now. go get sherrill— ag
- They should have traded for Dorn, Harris, Cerrano, Taylor, Wild Thing, Willy Mays Hays and JoBoo's Rum! Decent trade as long as Halladay does not beat us in the WS.....That would go over well in town....We shall see.....— spowlick
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- Agreed! If Toronto was too greedy to come off Drabek and Brown when it was obvious Cleveland was willing to deal Lee, too bad for them... Now they can keep Halladay and get nothing for him when he walks after 2010. Of course Richardi will be long gone by then...— AChamp1
- Now the Phillies have 48 hours to get some late inning bullpen help. Lidge and Madson are just scary this year. Heck, Lidge almost blew Hamels' gem last night.— fischman
- "would be decided in the bull pen" is the key, and we need to do something there, using remaining pieces (like Happ) to sure that up should be considered.— bamaphillyfan
As long as Lee's healthy, this is a great deal.- I agree. This is impressive work by a first year GM. What if Ruben had stayed on the phone with the Jays until Friday afternoon, never worked a deal out, and the Dodgers landed Cliff Lee? That would have been unpleasant.— sla6yer
- This is more than just playoffs '09. This positively affects next year (and beyond). While Halladay is certainly an upgrade over Lee, as you stated, it's not huge -- maybe 1-2 wins? The difference in salary (~7 million) affects what the Phils do with Blanton and who they can and will bring back/pick-up for next year. Also, this gives the 2010 team Happ and possibly Drabek at some point. This was an excellent trade. With that being said, prospects are still prospects, and the Phls could still spin any of their "untouchables" for further help before Friday, during the off-season, or at next year's deadline. Nice to have some bullets left in the chamber.— e4stringer
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- All things considered, GREAT MOVE!!!!!!! Now get a back end guy for the bullpen and you improve your world series chances greatly.— PhillyNH
- Totally agree, Rich....but also for next year as well. Now the Phillies keep Happ for next year and we could possibly see Drabek in the rotation next year. I don't know how confident anyone would be heading into next season with some combination of Moyer/Lopez/Martinez/Kendrick/Carrasco as our 4 and 5 starters. Since Lee and Halladay are both signed through next season and the talk was about how Halladay would be here for 2 post-seasons, this trade was as much about how it leaves the rotation for next year as well.— JimG
- So why not still package Drabek, Happ & Brown for Halladay and really secure your chances for 3 in a row??— PhilsBirdsFlys
- Just the opinion I expected from Mr. Softee.— psu05
- Great deal. Rube gets an A+ all around.— Philth
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