Hey, it could be worse
The latest Phillies and baseball news from Philly.com.
Hey, it could be worse
Matt Gelb
UPDATE (3:55 p.m.): Of course, now reports say talks between the Yankees and Mariners have broken down. So it's still possible Lee goes to a National League team, a far worse scenario for the Phillies. But you can go back to bashing me...
Phillies fans: It could be worse. Much, much worse.
Say the Mets acquired Cliff Lee. Or the Reds. Or even the Dodgers. Then, Lee could be directly responsible for pushing the Phillies out of the playoffs. That was the doomsday scenario for Ruben Amaro Jr. and Co.
Yes, Lee going to the Yankees will make plenty of Phillies fans angry. After all, he was the one who stuck it to the Yankees in the World Series. He made it look easy. His effortless catch in Game 1 at Yankee Stadium was the embodiment of how cool, calm and collected the ace can be.
Now he will very likely wear pinstripes and give the Yankees the finest rotation in the majors.
It's not the worst possible scenario.
Should the Yankees and Phillies somehow wind up in the World Series again, then yes, losing Lee to the Yankees will seem appropriately cruel then. But right now, given the Phillies are four games over .500 and 5.5 games back in the division, making the World Series should be the least of the Phillies' worries.
How about making the playoffs first?
And had the Mets, Reds or Dodgers -- teams who had reportedly shown interest in Lee -- won out in acquiring him, competition within the division or for the Wild Card spot would have been that much tougher.
A lot of the chatter since the original Lee trade went down centered upon the package the Phillies and Ruben Amaro Jr. received in return for Lee. Baseball America had Phillippe Aumont rated as Seattle's third best prospect at the time of the trade. J.C. Ramirez was ranked as the team's fifth best prospect.
The Yankees, it appears, will give up their top prospect, catcher Jesus Montero, in the package for Lee. Rumors are Zach McAllister, who is rated fifth best in the Yankees system by Baseball America, could also go. Is the package the Yankees are giving up for Lee better than what the Phillies got in return? On paper, yes.
Remember this, though: Amaro's trading partners were limited. Imagine the backlash had the Phillies traded Lee to a National League team in the off-season? Lee in Seattle had no direct effect on the Phillies' competition in 2010. What if he had gone to a National League contender?
Reports say the Phillies and Yankees discussed a Lee trade in the off-season, also involving Montero. But the Phillies backed out, weary of trading Lee to the team that beat them in the World Series just a few weeks earlier.
It's hard to judge what the Phillies received in return. All three prospects came to the organization with immense pressure from day one. It's been a half of a season. Aumont has already been demoted after struggling at double-A. Ramirez has been average since his promotion to Reading. Tyson Gillies, the other prospect acquired, has missed a great deal of time with a nagging hamstring injury.
Just because neither of them have reached Domonic Brown status (the benchmark, apparently, for all prospects now) doesn't mean the trade was a failure. Yet.
Should Lee have been traded originally? That debate will never end. Ultimately, the Phillies decided because they would not be able to retain Lee past 2010, they wanted to find an ace they could. That was Roy Halladay.
It was a brash move by Amaro and one that will follow his career forever -- or until he wins a championship.
The point is, today -- should a deal be consummated -- is far from a terrible day for the Phillies.
However, it is the fly sitting on a big pile of "terrible".
Tradng Cliff Lee a Cy Young 22 game winner who beat the Yankee TWICE the WORLD SERIES for the Phillies, for some mediocre minor leaguers was INSANE..INSANE....Winning organizations don't trade GREAT CY YOUNG starting pitchers, for mediocre minor leagues...NEVER! The Phillies could have had BOTH Halladay and Lee, both Cy Young winners at the top of their rotation...THIS IS THE WORST TRADE IN PHILLIES HISTORY!— Bill20- Hey Matt Thanks for that thought . . Phillies fans like myself are already . . . Angry . . . when Rubin opted to ' trade ' Cliff Lee . . for ' prospects ' ???— ingy9
- Why is every writer in this town afraid to offend Amaro and the Phillies? Is the free press box food that good? Grow a set. Bottom line- the Phillies had a chance to go for greatness and out-thought themselves.— duffers
- Reuben, you are sorry! The yanks don't miss out on a good deal do they. Tell us Rube, how all those wonderful prospects you got for Lee are doing---huh?— george22
Agreed. If, in fact he goes the the Yanks and we miss the playoffs- this deal means NOTHING to the Phils. Further if he then signs on to stay in the Evil Empire, that will also mean nothing- because that was likely where he was going anyway. Phillies fans have a right to be ticked if they like, but If Lee really blew them off last fall when they offere dthe 60 mil for 3 yrs, Amaro did what he had to do. Now - it looks like he may need to bite the bullet again and move Jayson Werth in teh best interest of the future. If and when he does, fans will kill him again but again they will do so unfairly.- Since the Phillies insisted on trading Lee last off-season, they should have traded him to the Minnesota Twins for their stud catching prospect Wilson Ramos (who is obviously blocked by Joe Mauer), one of their decent relief pitchers (someone like LHP Brian Duensing) and a top 5 pitching prospect. That would have been a deal that not only helped the Phillies immediately with a terrific LH reliever to sure up the bullpen but also would have restocked the cupboard at catcher with a guy that is major-league ready. Would the Twins have made that trade? I think probably so in a heartbeat. Did Amaro even inquire? I doubt it.
- That's nice that you're trying to be positive about this but the fact is that the Phils would have been better off with Halladay & Lee, even if it meant losing Hamels in the process. I gave RAJ the benefit of the doubt but it feels like his moves are not panning out.— lefty1117
- Duffers is right. The Phillies writers are almost like the Flyers writers, but not quite.— Leron
- I laugh about this fan base, b/c Amaro was doomed no matter what he did, other than keep him. It would have been even worse if he would have been traded to the "evil empire" even though Montero is rated slightly higher for trade value. I new this day was coming, and I can't wait until he signs with the Yanks in the off season for the big $$$, and maybe some people will realize we couldn't have signed him...probably not though..— phigglesfan75
- what is Rueben giving all these philly writers? they have got their noses so far up his behind it is unbelievable. these writers pick their favorites and can't be objective to save their lives. a cy young winner for three bums, give me a break.— barrywil
- It's true. It would have been worse if Lee was traded to an NL contender and that contender knocked them out of the playoffs. Nevertheless, that's pretty cold comfort. If the Phils can get it in gear, salvage the season and make it to the WS (probably) against the Yanks, does anyone (except Cole's family) think Hamels would beat Lee in October in Yankee Stadium? Not on your life. Ruben has to go. Pay Gillick whatever he wants before it's too late. I can't even take another idiotic, insulting press conference from Rube anymore.— Steve Jeltz
Unfortunately, Lee going to the Evil Empire and the Phillies giving him away for absolutely NOTHING proves that the Phillies aren't a big time organization. The "We're a small market" mentality caught up with the Phillies. The Evil Empire always goes for it and the Phillies blew it. Ruben is an F'n moron!!!!!!!!— shawnmac- How much do Matt Gelb and Bob Brookover earn to peddle such utter nonsense and is their salary paid in part or in its entirety by the Phillies organization?— Freedom Fries
Winners find 9 million bucks and prospects be damned— Hazy
