Hey, it could be worse
The latest Phillies and baseball news from Philly.com.
Hey, it could be worse
Matt Gelb
UPDATE (3:55 p.m.): Of course, now reports say talks between the Yankees and Mariners have broken down. So it's still possible Lee goes to a National League team, a far worse scenario for the Phillies. But you can go back to bashing me...
Phillies fans: It could be worse. Much, much worse.
Say the Mets acquired Cliff Lee. Or the Reds. Or even the Dodgers. Then, Lee could be directly responsible for pushing the Phillies out of the playoffs. That was the doomsday scenario for Ruben Amaro Jr. and Co.
Yes, Lee going to the Yankees will make plenty of Phillies fans angry. After all, he was the one who stuck it to the Yankees in the World Series. He made it look easy. His effortless catch in Game 1 at Yankee Stadium was the embodiment of how cool, calm and collected the ace can be.
Now he will very likely wear pinstripes and give the Yankees the finest rotation in the majors.
It's not the worst possible scenario.
Should the Yankees and Phillies somehow wind up in the World Series again, then yes, losing Lee to the Yankees will seem appropriately cruel then. But right now, given the Phillies are four games over .500 and 5.5 games back in the division, making the World Series should be the least of the Phillies' worries.
How about making the playoffs first?
And had the Mets, Reds or Dodgers -- teams who had reportedly shown interest in Lee -- won out in acquiring him, competition within the division or for the Wild Card spot would have been that much tougher.
A lot of the chatter since the original Lee trade went down centered upon the package the Phillies and Ruben Amaro Jr. received in return for Lee. Baseball America had Phillippe Aumont rated as Seattle's third best prospect at the time of the trade. J.C. Ramirez was ranked as the team's fifth best prospect.
The Yankees, it appears, will give up their top prospect, catcher Jesus Montero, in the package for Lee. Rumors are Zach McAllister, who is rated fifth best in the Yankees system by Baseball America, could also go. Is the package the Yankees are giving up for Lee better than what the Phillies got in return? On paper, yes.
Remember this, though: Amaro's trading partners were limited. Imagine the backlash had the Phillies traded Lee to a National League team in the off-season? Lee in Seattle had no direct effect on the Phillies' competition in 2010. What if he had gone to a National League contender?
Reports say the Phillies and Yankees discussed a Lee trade in the off-season, also involving Montero. But the Phillies backed out, weary of trading Lee to the team that beat them in the World Series just a few weeks earlier.
It's hard to judge what the Phillies received in return. All three prospects came to the organization with immense pressure from day one. It's been a half of a season. Aumont has already been demoted after struggling at double-A. Ramirez has been average since his promotion to Reading. Tyson Gillies, the other prospect acquired, has missed a great deal of time with a nagging hamstring injury.
Just because neither of them have reached Domonic Brown status (the benchmark, apparently, for all prospects now) doesn't mean the trade was a failure. Yet.
Should Lee have been traded originally? That debate will never end. Ultimately, the Phillies decided because they would not be able to retain Lee past 2010, they wanted to find an ace they could. That was Roy Halladay.
It was a brash move by Amaro and one that will follow his career forever -- or until he wins a championship.
The point is, today -- should a deal be consummated -- is far from a terrible day for the Phillies.
Worst Trade In Philadelphia Sports History.— jimiburnz
Another defense piece for the Phillies' front office. Who signs your paycheck Matt? I'd swear it was Dave Montgomery. Journalism is about the truth. I'm surprised you and your friends who cover the Phillies didn't pick up on that in college. You are nothing more than PR mouthpieces for the people you are supposed to objectively report on.- Hey, it could be worse, Cliff Lee could be going on ESPN on his own 1 hour special to announce the trade and say "I'm taking my talent that the Phillies passed on to New York, Thank you, Philadelphia!"— CoEagle
- you can always attempt to redefine terrible by comparing the situation you're in to something completely worse. that's one way of coping. so i guess trading cliff lee away isn't as bad as the holocaust. that's certainly true. but that kind of argument does not change the fact that trading cliff lee in the first place was an absolutely horrible decision that has now created an even worse outcome than anyone ever imagined.— tockeyhockey
- Cliff Lee "took one for the team" in Game 5 of the 2009 World Series. No one ever mentions that. The Phillies were ahead 8-2 in the eighth inning and Charlie Manuel left Cliff Lee in the game because he had no confidence in the Phillies bullpen. Brad Lidge had given up 3 runs in the 9th inning of game 4. Chan Ho Park, Brett Myers, J. Happ and Chad Durbin had been knocked around in games 2 and 3. Now, it's 2010, Cliff Lee is gone and Brad Lidge is still here.— Freedom Fries
- Whether the talks have broken down between the Stankees and Lee or not doesn't matter. He will still wind up NOT on the Phillies when dumb @$$ Amaro could have had Cliff Lee AND Halliday! You mean to tell me winning ONE championship was satisfying enough for the Phillies FO? SHEESH! Since the Phillies bats are asleep, go get Cliff Lee so him and Halliday can shut down all the other bats on the opposing teams!
- Right Matt..the Phils wouldn't have had a good trade partner in the NL and Seattle offered a less than desirable package which is why YOU DON"T TRADE HIM.. my lord, the journalists in this city will just lap up any Kool Aid the team provides.— drbob1
- With the way the gods of Baseball are treating us, keeping The General would NOT have helped us! It is obvious to me that we are the New York Mets of '07! Our only luck is BAD luck, and the Peter Principal is in full effect! Nothing goes right except for my hero, Jamie Moyer. Doc, I am sure, will GET the four runs a game he should have a right to expect from this club.....next year. Hollywood gets more and more cranky every time he pitches real good (two out of three starts I think), and loses another low scoring game by one run. Adversity???I have a feeling we will be seeing more of it down the road this year. Only because that once it goes sour on you, it STAYS sour. But ya know WHAT???? Ruben is gonna fix things....gauranteed! (And YES, I am one of the folks that hated parting with The General!) And who the hell knows....may be that last night's game will be the turning point! Glad to see Shnieder get that beautiful walk-off homer.— TBear
- As long as the bandwagoning frat boys and soriety chicks keep showing up, the ownership won't care. (Not complaining too much about the soriety chicks though)— Leron
- and I still feel very very smart !— mrdip
- Ready for this: Now it looks like its either TEXAS or THE REDS. If it's the Reds, and it happens before tonight, we could see Halladay vs. Lee tomorrow night... Wow.— joecatz
Ruben Amaro is not the boss. Like almost all of us, Amaro has to work under guidelines others set for him. Amaro did not set the budget. Though separate deals, Amaro traded, what appeared to be, one year of Cliff Lee for four or five years of Roy Halladay. My fellow Phils fans can be so short-sighted and short-memoried (still laughing at how vilified Wilson Valdez and respected Juan Castro was earlier this year). None of the prospects we traded have advanced their career and Michael Taylor seems to have taken a step backwards at 25. The prospects we received have yet to turn 22 (hard to write the book on them, yet, though many seem eager to. And all this "worst trade ever" is a bunch of hyperbole. No matter the final results of the career of these prospects I am pretty sure the 5-for-1 Von Hayes, Ryne Sandberg-Larry Bowa for Ivan DeJesus, and Dick Allen for Curt Flood (then Willie Montanez) all BY FAR surpass the Lee trade.- Phillies are not making the Playoffs this year. They decided that when they traded Lee and let anyone who could pitch in their pen go. How they decided to stick with Lidge this year is another poor decision. Halladay great the rest of the Phillies starters are AVG at best.— lgdoran
Wow. Here's what everybody always misses. Amaro exchanged one year of Cliff Lee, and the very real possibility that they would lose him to free agency, for three years of Roy Halladay. That makes incredible sense to me. Also, ask yourself this, second guessing whiney crybabies, how well do you think the Yankees would be doing with a $140M payroll? I'm guessing not even close to the Phillies. It would be delightful if the Phillies owned their own cable network in the largest media market in the country. But they don't. So, shut up and hope the offense comes around soon.— John621- Interesting that Seattle is turning down the deal all of these posters screamed about the Phillies not taking, namely this so-called stud 20 yr old catcher who by the way is viewed as either a first baseman or DH in the majors, last I looked that does not help us. Not to say Amaro and his lap-dog alleged journalists should not be tarred and feathered for trading Lee and then justifying it but point is there is almost no way to get fair value back for a pitcher like Lee. I think we should blow up roster ala 06— davi
