These Phillies are terrible, so let's talk about the good times

As transitions go, this was somewhat of a significant moment for the Phillies. It was not as if we did not know that the second really-good-but-not-great era in franchise history was over. The previous two seasons, the first road trip this season, and all those empty blue seats at Citizens Bank Park provided ample evidence that it was, and has been, for a while.

It is notable, however that for the first time since the Phillies won the 2008 World Series, they sent out a lineup, for Thursday's series finale against the Miami Marlins, without a player from that championship team. We are still probably a year or two away from that happening on a daily basis, because we are going to see Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, and Carlos Ruiz back in the lineup as soon as Friday against Atlanta.

With that trio out of sight to start the game against the Marlins, it seemed like a great time to ponder which really-good-but-not-great era in Phillies history was better. It was either that or delve deeper into the details of the 9-1 loss to the Marlins.

If you were one of the 17,097 at the ballpark - the smallest crowd in CBP history - or watched the game on TV, you understand why the era comparison won the battle of ideas in a landslide.

So instead of the chilling reality of Marlins vs. Phillies, we give you the 1975-83 Phillies against the 2003-11 Phillies.

The last time I compared these two eras was during spring training 2012. I did so with the help of Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt and former Phillies manager Dallas Green, both of whom have had roles in each of the best two eras in franchise history. To my surprise, each man voted for the more recent group of players as being just a bit ahead of their glorious time together at Veterans Stadium.

I disagreed then and do so even more now.

Schmidt made some legitimate points a few years ago. He never had much love for Veterans Stadium. In fact, he once pointed out that the home dugout smelled like cat urine, which also could serve as an apt way to describe the play of the current team.

Citizens Bank Park, even on its worst day - which was either Thursday or Game 5 of the 2011 National League division series - is leaps and bounds better than the Vet.

But the comparison has to go deeper than that. By the numbers and accomplishments, it is really close. The first era lasted from 1975 to '83, a stretch in which the Phillies had nine straight winning seasons and a 791-612 record, which calculates to a winning percentage of .564. The Phillies also posted nine straight winning seasons from 2003 to '11, compiling an 818-640 record for a .561 winning percentage.

The postseason scorecard is a draw. One World Series title each. Two National League pennants each. Five division titles each, although the 1981 team's was a half-season title split with Montreal because of that year's strike.

The stars are what separate the two eras. The older one had more of them. The regular starting eight from the 1980 World Series team combined for 31 All-Star Game appearances and 25 Gold Glove awards during their tenure with the Phillies. Six of the eight players finished at least one season in the top 10 in MVP voting. Schmidt won the MVP award three times.

The starting eight on the 2008 World Series team combined for 16 All-Star Game appearances and seven Gold Glove awards during their tenure with the Phillies. Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins each won one MVP award, and five of the eight regulars finished at least one season in the top 10 in MVP voting.

There is no comparing the long-term aces of each staff. Steve Carlton won four Cy Young Awards and appeared in 10 All-Star Games. Cole Hamels has been on three all-star teams, but has never finished higher than fifth in the Cy Young voting.

Carlton and Schmidt are in the Hall of Fame, and a few years ago, when Schmidt talked on this subject, he thought the Phillies of the Charlie Manuel era would have some Hall of Famers, too. That is looking doubtful now. The departed Jimmy Rollins is probably closest to that stature at the moment, but he is probably going to be a bubble candidate.

They were both terrific times, and it is worth debating which was better. What else is there to do in these dark days of Philadelphia baseball?

@brookob