Friday, April 5, 2013
Friday, April 5, 2013
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Phillies Notes: Rich Dubee says he's seeing results from Phillies' Roy Halladay

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    ATLANTA - As Rich Dubee preached his optimism Thursday afternoon about Roy Halladay, the pitcher ran. Halladay donned a red beanie and black sweatpants. He paced the warning track at Turner Field in the 40-degree weather while a steady mist fell. Halladay was the only player on the field at 4 p.m.

    "I'm starting to see some results," Dubee said. "You think I'm going to take the ball away from this guy?"

    No one is saying the Phillies pitching coach should do that. Dubee reiterated his encouragement for Halladay despite a baffling, 95-pitch outing in which the erstwhile ace recorded 10 outs. Dubee cited Halladay's nine strikeouts.

    "Do you see many other guys doing that in baseball?" Dubee said. "Yu Darvish against the Astros. Yu Darvish wasn't facing the Atlanta Braves."

    Darvish, of course, was capable of completing more than 31/3 innings. On Wednesday, Halladay barely resembled his normal self and relied on his off-speed pitches.

    "I don't know if it's an issue of trusting his stuff," Dubee said, "as much as trying to get to where he understands what his stuff is and how it's going to play and how he can work off that."

    Data from Pitch F/X, a precise two-camera system installed in every Major League Baseball stadium that tracks the trajectory and speed of every pitch, indicated that Halladay's release point was lower than last season.

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    Last spring, when scouts first questioned Halladay's ability, they focused on his lower arm slot as evidence. It affects the angle Halladay achieves on his pitches, and could be to blame for the lack of ground balls.

    But Dubee disputed the data based on video he watched. "It's not lower, it's higher," he said of Halladay's arm slot.

    "That means he's good," Dubee said. "Last year, because of health issues, he had to get lower because that's the only way he could get the ball up there."

    Dubee said Halladay achieved the desired late movement on his sinkers and cutters. So why did he stray from the pitches?

    "He wasn't able to do it arm-slot wise," Dubee said.

     

    Extra bases

    After two losses, Charlie Manuel made one change to his lineup. Laynce Nix started in right field against the Braves, replacing John Mayberry Jr. . . . Jimmy Rollins passed Richie Ashburn for second place all-time in games played (1,795) as a Phillie. He needs 609 more to tie Mike Schmidt. . . . Halladay was the first Phillies pitcher to record his first eight outs of a game via strikeout since Curt Schilling on April 5, 1998. . . . The Phillies returned outfielder Ender Inciarte to the Arizona Diamondbacks for $25,000. Inciarte was the Phillies' Rule 5 selection in December.

    Matt Gelb Inquirer Staff Writer
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    Comments  (21)
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:55 PM, 04/05/2013
      It's nice that Halladay is willing to jog in the rain, but the point that wasn't even discussed is Halladay's loss of velocity.
      nmlawyer
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:14 PM, 04/05/2013
      It really bothers me that the camera shows one thing and that Dubee says another. I can't help but remember that Dubee concealed RH's injury last year -- could it be happening again?
      camdenlawprof
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 4:01 PM, 04/05/2013
      I understand the pessimism, but in all reality, his stuff was pretty good when he pitched. His problem was he wasn't pinpoint accurate like he used to be. That's not something that can't be regained, and I believe he'll get it back. If his pitches were topping out at 88 mph, then that would be a different story, but he was getting it in at 90. He'll be fine, I believe and hope, but it's just a matter of getting it there. I think him playing through the injury last year screwed him up, kind of like walking on a bad leg, you adjust your movements to compensate.
      cjh136
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:06 PM, 04/05/2013
      Seems like Dubee was a good pitching coach in 2008. Not too shabby in 2009. Outstanding in 2010 and 2011.If only the posters was half as successful in their own career as Dubee has been in his, they would be doing something other than hanging around a message board.
      ToniBaloney
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:24 PM, 04/05/2013
      Liked your comment DRat....."arm slot" is everything to a pitcher. Every pitch NEEDS to come out of the same arm slot so that no hitter or opposing coach can pick up what pitch you are throwing. You don't lose your "arm slot" after pitching for a number of years unless you are dealing with an injury and it makes it physically impossible to throw from that same slot that you've always thrown from. I can tell you from pitching myself, that as I got older and my capsule loosened and the wear and tear took it's toll on my shoulder, my "arm slot" changed dramatically. Sometimes on some pitches you can replicate it but when humping up to throw the fastball for instance, I had to drop my arm slightly to a different slot, so as to feel like I could throw without pain and keep some mustard on the ball. Unfortunately, hitters can see this and let it rip when they do, often leading to the same tattooing of the baseball that we've seen hitters do to Doc all spring. Also, Dubee is correct on this. Your movement on the ball, especially with the cutter and sinker changes dramatically when you change your arm swing. It becomes much more hittable. Believe me when I say this because I got rocked a lot my last few years. But I loved the game, the teammates, the challenge and didn't want to give it up. Thank God I played on a field that was 365' to the foul poles and 390' in the gaps. I can't imagine having to pitch in the Majors with dimensions like CBP or Fenway. That's just about an impossible task, IMO.
      Mark1npt
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:02 PM, 04/05/2013
      Dubee doesn't "produce" arms ... but I agree that he is terrible. Another example of the Monty & Rube show. As bad as he is, though, it's hard to look past Manuel. I wish a reporter would ask Rube why Davy Lopes left. Anyone here know why Davy Lopes left? How about Arbuckle? Chuck Lamar? Jimy Williams?
      Copper34
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:28 AM, 04/05/2013
      I thought the same Clemens. I have said numerous times, this coaching staff is not good. It seems, under Charlie, they let the good ones go and keep the mediocre ones, Dubee, Samuel, Billmeyer, etc. When your pitching coach runs Spring Training and the pitching staff, and Juan Samuel was the OF instructor and 3b coach, you're in trouble. Right now they added new blood in Sandberg, Henderson, Nichols and Joyner. That's the good news. The bad news is that Charlie's right hand man is still Dubee, the pitching coach, followed by Billmeyer, his ex BP coach masquerading as bench coach (he is the one relaying the signs to the team.)
      EL Zorro
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:07 AM, 04/05/2013
      To those who'd give up on Halladay - what do you think would make the Nats and Braves happier, sticking with Doc or getting rid of him? Obviously, the latter. Thus, we should stick with him.
      Bobby G
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:11 AM, 04/05/2013
      not sure anyone is giving up on him as much as just reigning back expectations. but if Halladay (or anyone for that matter) is going out there serving up beach balls then why wouldn't the Nats and Braves or any other team want to face him?
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:07 AM, 04/05/2013
      I get that the guy has to stand up for his pitcher. But there is a fine line between support and denial, and every time Dubee talks about Halladay he just sounds more ridiculous. It's pretty much been 4 weeks of Dubee barking at any reporter that dares suggest Roy Halladay at 36 isn't immortal
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:54 AM, 04/05/2013
      If Dubee wants to discuss arm slot, I guess the journalists talking to him have to report what he says. But could we have a COMPREHENSIBLE discussion, please? The last two paragraphs of this story appear to make nonsense out of all that went before. People are saying Doc's arm slot is too low; Dubee says, no, it's plenty high enough. But then Dubee is quoted as saying Doc couldn't deliver sinkers and cutters the other night BECAUSE OF HIS ARM SLOT!!!!! Whaaa????? Didn't Dubee just contradict everything he'd said before? How can the reporter put that out there without any comment?
      Dave Clemens
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:40 AM, 04/05/2013
      I don't want to see this prolonged. I'm sure it's hard for a professional athlete, especially one as dedicated and successful as Doc to come to terms with diminished physical ability. Denial and dragging out the inevitable is not fair to him or the fans. I hope there is someone around that he trusts that can tell it to him straight.
      altoonaaslan
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:32 AM, 04/05/2013
      Dubee is the worst pitching coach in baseball! Besides Hamels and Madson what great young arms has he produced in his decade plus here???? Unbelievable.
      BumSatellite
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:32 AM, 04/05/2013
      Dubee is the worst pitching coach in baseball! Besides Hamels and Madson what great young arms has he produced in his decade plus here???? Unbelievable.
      BumSatellite
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:08 AM, 04/05/2013
      Dubee, Dubee, Dubee. Strikeouts mean nothing if you don't get the win. Nolan Ryan, the strikeout king, almost lost 300 games. His avg. per 162 games was 14-13. In 1976 he had 327 Ks in 284 inn. Yet, his record was 17-18. He had double digit loses in 17 seasons, including 5 seasons of 16 loses to go with that 18 loses in 1976. Yes, he's in the HOF, but the teams he played for would have traded some of those K's for more wins. Gregg Maddux only had a season of 200 K (204 in 1998). Ryan recorded 383 Ks in 1973 and had 6 300 seasons. However, Maddux had 31 more wins despite Ryan pitching 4 more years.
      EL Zorro
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:40 AM, 04/05/2013
      Take heart, DelawareRR, Doobs will follow Charlie out the door at season's end.
      misterhman
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:41 AM, 04/05/2013
      Dubee is in the athletic supporter HOF
      NewMick314
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:16 AM, 04/05/2013
      People always ask "why do Phillies fans love Cliff so much"? If you watched last night, you know why.....
      beefbre
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:04 AM, 04/05/2013
      New nickname: Arm Slot Dubee.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 6:51 AM, 04/05/2013
      2013 Baseball Definitions defined:

      1. Pitching Coach: Better known as the PITCHING STAFF SPOKESPERSON. An older guy who mouths the party line that all is well when it is not. Most people think they actually have input and provide advice and counsel to multi million dollar pitchers. They do not. Neither do they help younger pitchers coming up from the minors. If anything they provide criticism but nothing more. Examples given: See JA Happ and Kyle Kendrick.

      2. Arm Slot: An imaginary plane angle that the arm utilizes in moving towards home plate. The term ARM SLOT is always used to provide an excuse to a terminally injured or washed up pitcher. The term is never used on young pitchers. It can also be considered the one and only position that the pitcher can throw a ball without severe pain. It is also a term used when the pitcher gets bombed: "Well his arm slot was up high. We need to get it down lower". The problem being that the pitcher knows this but the pain reflex makes him not use his normal throwing position, hence the term and all excuse-crutch: Arm Slot.

      Yep, a little sarcastic humor for a Friday morning, but really, I do not recall the term arm slot being used at all in 2008 or 2009. And I do hold the belief now that the pitching coach serves no purpose but to click a hand held counter after each pitch and discuss dinner arrangements on those visits to the mound.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 5:22 AM, 04/05/2013
      Dubee has no credibility with any real Phillies fan. Believe nothing from that fraud.
      shawnmac


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