Saturday, April 6, 2013
Saturday, April 6, 2013
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Cliff Lee masterful as Phillies top Braves

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    ATLANTA - Before Charlie Manuel tasted victory in this, his 69th year, he was salty. Maybe it was the brutal, see-your-breath weather. Maybe it was his lineup, which had not produced. Maybe he was just tired of answering questions about a small swatch of a long season.

    "We've played two ball games," Manuel deadpanned before Thursday's 2-0 Phillies victory. "I'm going to panic. I'm going to go up there and jump off the top of the stadium. It'll be my luck to live."

    The manager laughed. His point was made. So he took his chances with Cliff Lee on the mound rather than a free fall from the top of Turner Field.

    Good idea.

    Lee was masterful in eight innings against the Braves. If it were not April and 40 degrees, maybe Lee would have attempted the shutout. But 106 pitches of dominance against a lineup that battered Cole Hamels and Roy Halladay were sufficient.

    "The last three innings he even got better," Manuel said. "He was clicking. Command and location. He had good tempo and rhythm. He used his pitches, man. He was aggressive with his fastball. That was a typical Cliff Lee game."

    A typical Cliff Lee game did not guarantee victory in 2012. The lefthander was not awarded a win until his 14th start, and the Phillies were 12-18 in his outings. The new year provided a new narrative.

    By beating Atlanta, the Phillies ended one of the more incredible streaks. Atlanta had won 23 straight regular-season games started by Kris Medlen. That was the longest such run in baseball history.

    The Phillies received one quality starting performance and they won one game in this opening series. They avoided their first 0-3 start since 2007. The home opener at Citizens Bank Park awaits Friday afternoon.

    Lee allowed two hits, the fewest in any start of more than six innings in his career. He walked none, struck out eight, and threw 78 of his 106 pitches for strikes. He neutered a potent Atlanta lineup with the help of the weather, which was not conducive to hitting. The wind killed a few deep flies.

    Atlanta posted a league-leading .621 slugging percentage by blasting 10 extra-base hits in the season's first two games. They were held to two singles Thursday. No Braves runner reached second base.

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    Staked to a second-inning lead, Lee followed his simple plan.

    "It makes it easier to attack the zone," he said. "You're not as worried about a solo home run. Make them swing their way on base. Try not to walk anyone. Be aggressive. Throw fastballs over the plate, and let the defense make plays."

    He required a mere 31 pitches to record nine outs from the sixth to the eighth innings. The cold weather, Lee said, made it less taxing to eclipse 100 pitches so soon in the season.

    Lee's effort masked another lackluster offensive performance. The Phillies stranded nine runners on base. The grand total for the three-game series was 26.

    They cornered Medlen in the early innings. The 27-year-old righthander, making his first career start in April, tossed 49 pitches in the first two innings. He stranded the bases loaded in the first when Domonic Brown bounced to second. In the second, the Phillies loaded the bases with none out and scored twice.

    Laynce Nix, making his first start of the season, singled to begin the inning. Erik Kratz doubled to left. Lee drew a seven-pitch walk in what was possibly the most important plate appearance of the night.

    When Ben Revere tapped a grounder to shortstop for a run-scoring fielder's choice, the Phillies had their first lead of 2013 in the season's 20th inning. The other run scored on a Chase Utley sacrifice fly.

    With Lee's relentless assault of the strike zone, it was enough.

     


    Contact Matt Gelb at mgelb@phillynews.com. Follow on Twitter @magelb.

    Matt Gelb INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
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    Comments  (84)
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:59 PM, 04/05/2013
      @highwater --Ive got nothing against Michael Young and hopes he contributes in some way at some point this year; I've got issues with Rube not getting a truly productive 3rd baseman since he got the g.m. job
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:30 PM, 04/05/2013
      @advanta: My friend, I'm afraid your last paragraph is probably spot on. And, it' a d*mn shame. I, for one, would like to see Ruf supplant Howard at First Base. Howard is NOT the hungry (baseball-wise) Howard from before the big contract. The Howard of today is a slow, (and I mean SLOW) runner who lumbers to first base and an undisciplined hitter who continually flails at pitches in the dirt, invariably striking out with runners on base. He's apparently uncoachable, as evidenced by his boneheaded determination to continue his undisciplined approach at the plate, while concurrently going through at least four hitting coaches (including the supposed "hitting guru" Manuel) and is content to collect his paycheck regardless. In my opinion, he has no heart, no drive, and no guts. I would really like to see the Phillies suck up a good portion of his salary and trade him off to some AL team in need of a designated hitter (in this case, strike out artist) but no self-respecting GM would consider Howard at this point, unless his name is "Amaro". Ruf needs to replace Howard at First Base, his natural position, and watch him take off. It certainly wouldn't hurt. We're getting NOTHING out of the "big piece", who invariably comes up "little".
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:37 AM, 04/05/2013
      I'm wondering the same things as stated by @Only in Philly above...with Michael Young's recent past and present demonstrating the folly of him as your #5 hitter and with so much inter-league play on the schedule throughout the season, why not Darin Ruf on your bench as a sometimes pinch-hitter, sometimes first baseman to spell Howard and often-times DH batting 5th against those AL teams?

      Seems to me that his presence on the bench would mean a whole lot more to the team that does Carrera's or even Mayberry's. But this would involve too much thinking on Ruin's part and that just isn't going to happen.

      Ruf is history...Brown has his position, he's not being considered for a bench/DH spot, and we're stuck with Ryan Howard playing 155 games per season for the next four years.
      advantasux
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:24 AM, 04/05/2013
      biscuit- mike young does not look that bad. hyperbole much?
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:22 AM, 04/05/2013
      This is the time of year when small sample sizes make everything look bigger/more significant. You could do the same thing at any point through the season if you looked at 3 game samples- but we never do. We look at stats cumulatively- and baseball is a game of averages. Players that start off hot cool down, players that start off slowly pick up- and eventually the teams with the best players, mixed in perhaps with more than their share of luck, win. Start to look at individual stats a few weeks into the season- until then they're pretty meaningless.
      Drj827
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:11 AM, 04/05/2013
      Lee continues to be tough as nails!! As he was against the mighty Yankees in the World Series a few years ago! The guy is an ace! Great competitor like Doc and Cole...now how about those batters competing a little harder at the plate!!
      juggy gales
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:10 AM, 04/05/2013
      Lee was awesome. Whoever said he is the classic definition of a stopper, was RIGHT ON! Now the rest of the staff needs to start their engines!
      *Chuck*
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:09 AM, 04/05/2013
      Ugh Howard looked so good in spring training, but sadly has reverted back to his clueless approach at the plate he's had the last two years. Michael Young not being a legit #5 hitter isn't helping. With all the AL teams we play now with the new alignment, why not keep Ruf on the roster as a DH and PH? He could hit 5 as the DH and he could even play his natural position of 1B once a week to give Howard a day off against tough lefties.
      Only in Philly...
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:09 AM, 04/05/2013
      @warbiscuit I was at Mon & Wed debacles.Sorry I couldn't stay for Cliff's gem,as I stated yesterday RAJ is the conductor of the 2013 "Train Wreck" We'll see what happens over the next few weeks
      scmike
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:08 AM, 04/05/2013
      Where are the neysayers who wanted to "dump" Lee last year and in offseason. I have to thank all the negadelphians for their relentless attack on Lee. He has a chip on his shoulder from last year and is going to prove ALL OF YOU wrong once again. What he showed last night was vintage Lee (of the 2009/2010 seasons). Paps, in a save situation, once again delivered. Phight On Phillies, look for a win streak now that we are back home at the Bank.
      drhoffman
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:47 AM, 04/05/2013
      any g.m. who trades Lee away for 3 nobodies to save $9 million and then gives Blanton a $24 million contract, and thinks Halladay is a huge upgrade over Lee, has demonstrated that he can't distinguish between quality and mdeciocrity and can't evaluate talent.. a few dozen more nonsensical signings, trades and extensions that destroyed the team confirm that Rube has been even more clueless than anyone could have feared
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:41 AM, 04/05/2013
      as dasher comments, i have no idea why Sarge is on t.v.... fans here often rip Wheeler and others, but Matthews truly has noting intelligent to say ever
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:27 AM, 04/05/2013
      for people who know how to hit, Sarge makes good comments. you ever turn around 90mph for a base hit, biscuit? I have.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:32 AM, 04/05/2013
      momjeanz: "Not sure where you get off calling your negativity and cynicism "realism"...
      because I'm acccurate about 90% of the time, whether about the good players whom I defend against unjustified attacks (Lee, Hamels, Rollins) or the ineptness of those who destroyed a team that could have and should have had much more success (Aamro, Manuel)...I also rebut ignorant rah-rah doofuses like you who think being a "fan" means being stupid....
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:30 AM, 04/05/2013
      After every bad start Hamels gets ripped and not mildly. Comments are personal and imbecilic. Now the fans are armed with his contract and I've already seem it in these remarks. I didn't see that last year with Lee's 6 win season for whatever reason, and Halladay's injury riddles season. Don't they make a ton of money? Nothing was Lee's fault last season according to everyone. Lack of run support never stopped anybody from ripping Cole Hamels but Lee is a god. I will celebrate the day that the Philles trade Cole Hamels. I hope it's this year. Someone will take on the contract. They should have traded him last year but they'll correct that mistake.
      re6035
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:30 AM, 04/05/2013
      WOW--- what offense by the sillies--- Cryin-Ryan did nothing again....
      toiletofphilly
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:28 AM, 04/05/2013
      They lost two out of three---- good enough for the SILLIES..... Morons of the NL EAST!
      toiletofphilly
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:13 AM, 04/05/2013
      fyi I've been consistently documenting that Lee is still elite since end of 2012, when many of the uninformed insisted on lumping Lee's 'disappointing' 2012 together with Halladay's disastrous one... as I posted "2/5/2013 Lee doesn't deserve the blame he is getting...if Lee had Halladay's support last year or had been on a good team like Yanks or Rangers, he could have been a 20-game winner ... Lee had 17 games with 2 or less runs, another 3 quality starts with 3 runs and another 4 games giving up 4 runs in 7 innings)...awful defense, awful bullpen, awful managing and impotent offense is what cost him (and yes, he was unable to win every game 2-1 and go full 9 innings like he might have done in 2009 but he was certainly better last year than a 20-game winner like Sabathia) ... "
      I'm not here to rip good players like Lee and Hamels..I'm here to insist that an incompetent g.m. who can't distinguish between quality and mediocrity be replaced.
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:01 AM, 04/05/2013
      phillyboyinnyc in his/her/its own words:
      "I warned you doggie bone..those "voices in your head" ...I showed the bizarre aspect ...manic, over-the-top hysteria....I warned you to stay away from me. You didn't listen...reflection of one day is haunting you already..."
      ".. psychopath, pure and simple... unnerving and pathetic. ... the exact multiple post rant I predicted. Why? ... a psychopath with a narcissistic attitude, whose predictability is 100%.... note the time... enemie's list"...
      "toothless moronic imbecile...PREDICTABLE FREAK, and that was my only agenda, to say jump... your sickness ... paranoid....OCD mixed in, so you HAVE to respond...over and over...non-sequiturs....smoking from the idiotic comments ...I would laugh....but the truth is, it's sad. ..a complete tool like you ...is sickening... Au contraire sick pup..."
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:52 AM, 04/05/2013
      Good game. They needed that, it was a lot of pressure on Lee so early in the season but good to see him get a W the way last year went for him. Love having Cliff Lee on our team and just wish he was pitching today instead of KK. But hey it's Opening Day and we're going! Sure we aren't alone among the astute posters of this site.
      PhillySubsMac
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:50 AM, 04/05/2013
      @momjeanz - Revere aren't insignificant because of 3 games; they're insignificant becuase Michael Young isn't good any more and Revere never was
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 2:20 PM, 04/05/2013
      well, I don't know that they were brought in to be world-beaters; they certainly weren't paid that way. Sure, RAJ could have gone out and spent all the money in the world and given up the farm in the process to get Upton and Headley if it was trying to guarantee top-tiered production from 3rd and CF. They got those guys cheap, and you get what you pay for. Both of those guys (and the other Young for that matter) were gambles, none of which have the phils on the hook for a lot of money. If they'd gone and spent money on A players at those positions, we'd just be fielding comments about the money RAJ threw at worthless bums.

      I think you seem to not understand the gamble involved with your comments and that there is no way to guarantee anything no matter who you get or how much you spend. Sure, every move is likely to have its ups and downs, whether it be trepidation over signing someone unproven, too old, or overpaid. And with each error and hitless plate appearance, people like you love to chime in and say, "Aha see?! TOLD YOU", instead of just being a true fan that says, "well hell, that's the way it goes sometimes. you win some, you lose some".

      And no, just because I'm a fan of the team no matter what happens doesn't make me stupid any more than you tossing insults at everyone makes you smart. Yeah, win or lose I'm backin my phils, but it doesnt mean I'm gonna settle for another decade of irrelevance and come on here and say, "well, come on guys chin up maybe next year" either. I'll be right there with you sayin changes are needed. Howard's deal= bad. Trading Lee away the first time= questionable at best. but it DID allow us to grab Halladay, and I don't know of any fans that weren't excited to have him on board. so take that how you will. Too early to make any final judgment on Revere or either Young THAT is my point. it's 3 games, dude, relax.
      Momjeanz
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:47 AM, 04/05/2013
      Great game Cliff! You restored the faith in the pitching rotation. Hopefully your buddies will come through.
      dogman5
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:43 AM, 04/05/2013
      @warbiscuit- Your transparency is too easy. You say that Revere and M. Young are so far as "insignificant an upgrade as I had predicted they'd be". We're 3 games and like 15 at-bats into the season. Calling them insignificant ergo yourself correct, is of no more use to anybody than to say that Harper is on pace to hit 324 home runs after the first game was over.

      Not sure where you get off calling your negativity and cynicism "realism". A realistic outlook at this point of the season is to say, "Young and Revere aren't off to great starts, but it's early". You just twist the knife of negativity at EVERY SINGLE OPPORTUNITY. You go on thinkin it's just your "standard realism"; it just comes across as lonely and miserable.
      Momjeanz
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:34 AM, 04/05/2013
      Lee was outstanding; and for once glad to see Manuel not let him finish it.
      Northcountry
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:04 AM, 04/05/2013
      The only reason Lee is number 3 is to split up the lefties.

      And as High Water said, every ball Howard it was hard and well hit. He does have to figure out how to beat the shift, but he looked a lot better than he did the first two games. That's a home run on any other night.
      cloudkitt
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:04 AM, 04/05/2013
      Was anybody else amazed Manuel brought Lee out to pitch 8th inning going 0ver 100 pitches first start? Probably no other manager in basebll would have done that. Then again it worked. What does this say about Manuel's confidence in bullpen? After last years horendous support glad to see Lee start with win. Then again it was all of 2 runs but wind took HR saway from Howard, Nix. If Braves have any holes it could be starting pitching. Medlin who was outstanding last year looked fair after poor spring. Was surprised to learn Hudson only 32.
      Don w
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:01 AM, 04/05/2013
      The offense is still shaky so it is a good thing the real Cliff Lee showed up.
      Marie Elena
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:44 AM, 04/05/2013
      I don't think everyone should jump off the Phils offensive bandwagon just yet. They got 5 in game one against Hudson, and scored two tonight off of their 1-a in Medlen. Granted, they should have had more off of Maholom, (considering the number of men left on) but he's also the first lefty they faced all year. They'll be fine.
      ryanrockzzz
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:25 AM, 04/05/2013
      howard hit a bomb that would have been a home run any other night. every ball he hit last night he hit hard. you people.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:48 AM, 04/05/2013
      I dislike the Phils commentators...they ruin the game.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:33 AM, 04/05/2013
      Gottcha S. Thanks for the comment. Lets hope Kratzie and KK are on the same page today.
      NewMick314
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 6:50 AM, 04/05/2013
      There's not much to say other than Lee was great.
      Phillies2008WSChamps
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 6:38 AM, 04/05/2013
      Sorry, I meant 3 games, not 2 for Howard and Hamilton.

      @NewMick314 - I commented about Kratz yesterday. Not a cheap shot or gripe but I'm thinking you may mean Doc and not the fans. I like Kratz and naturally want him to succeed. He just didn't look comfortable at all those first two games. Particularly with Doc. And he had some trouble with Doc in at least one late spring game. Last night he looked much more like the Kratz we saw last year. It's his first time being a starter even though he knows Ruiz will be back to take the job. You have to think if you're a catcher, Lee is a guy who's going to put you a lot more at ease than Doc.
      s
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 6:28 AM, 04/05/2013
      What's funny about Howard is I've sometimes urged people to stop and take a look at Josh Hamilton's numbers. Aside from average, RBIs, and HRs you might be astounded at the similarities - Hamilton always with better average, Howard always with more RBIs and HRs but OPS, SLG and OBP being so close it's scary.

      So guess who has an identical average to Howard after 2 games and went the exact same 1-for-12 so far? You got it -- Hamilton. Only he's struck out twice as much (6 times versus Howard's 3) and walked once more (twice versus Howard's 1 BB). If you think that predicts Hamilton's season any more or less than it predicts Howard's you don't follow baseball.
      s
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:35 AM, 04/05/2013
      not to mention Howard would have his first homer of the year on any other night. that ball DIED because of the cold weather.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:07 AM, 04/05/2013
      The other point being that their contracts are almost identical. Hamilton is 1.5 years younger than Howard and his contact kicked in a year later. Hamilton will actually get a bit more over the full contract (133m versus 125m for Howard).

      Another eerie parallel: Both LCS MVP's at the same age.
      s
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 6:28 AM, 04/05/2013
      Lee will be dominant to get enough wins to make him the centerpiece of a big trade by the July deadline for young talent to rebuild this team.
      SONNY BOY
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:37 AM, 04/05/2013
      creep. do you pride yourself on how negative you can be? does it make you feel like a man?
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 6:24 AM, 04/05/2013
      No cheap shot gripes about Kratz today.
      NewMick314
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:31 AM, 04/05/2013
      why not? the guy killed us the first two games. he is barely passable as a backup. would have been nice if ruben had gotten someone to led the staff while Chooch was out and back him up the rest of the season. could have gone even two years with someone because I don't think Joseph will be ready next year.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 5:52 AM, 04/05/2013
      Great to see Lee off to a great start! Go Phils!
      BMan
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:31 AM, 04/05/2013
      Papelbon is a completely different pitcher in non-save situations. I think he uses those situations to experiment with his pitches.
      altoonaaslan
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:16 AM, 04/05/2013
      Lee's effort masked another lackluster offensive performance.

      Scoring two runs in a game won't produce wins on games when Kendrick & Lannan & Halladay pitch.

      What a waste of $25mil/yr on an overated 1st baseman!
      johnpaulcpa
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:15 AM, 04/05/2013
      What a treat it was to watch Lee pitch! He looks as though he is locked in right now, which usually translates into a dominant month or so of pitching. NL Pitcher of the Month for April maybe?

      Was great for them to get out of Atlanta with a win and slow down the momentum the braves had going...they are a dangerous team though with those bats.

      ...and as for Howard, not what I expected in this series, although he did beat the shift tonite with a single and just missed hitting a dead center HR. I think being at CBP will do him some good, hopefully he goes on a tear. Either way he'll put up numbers again this year...
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:09 AM, 04/05/2013
      Not only did I enjoy Lee and a victory tonight, I also learned something. The Sarge explained how the standings work. He said that the more games you lose, the further you fall behind.

      They can't pay this guy enough for the rare insights he provides.
      dasher
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:09 AM, 04/05/2013
      It's not like the Phillies offense is dead. More like broken. So far they're top 5 in a few offensive categories (not all the ones that matter but enough to show they have life): Batting average (3rd), hits (4th), OBP (5th). There's a big hole in the middle of the lineup the way Howard and Michael Young are hitting. Young is providing no RH thread behind Howard which is part of the problem (and Howard is cold at the plate right now). If I were Charlie -- a thought that scares the living hell out of me -- I would have gotten Frandsen into at least one of these games -- more than the one PA he's had so far. He's already setting up for his usual mode of playing his starters to a fault.
      s
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:50 AM, 04/05/2013
      wow, great night by cliff! this team can't lose! but halladay, hamels and howard (oh my) stink, we're doomed!....uh, maybe i'll wait for the season to actually play out before i jump on or off any bandwagons.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:40 AM, 04/05/2013
      If The Phillies put Howard out on the block ... owed 85 Million for the next three years. And ate 10 million per >>> they'd cut 55 million from their payroll and play Ruf at first. Thats not an albatross. There would be ALL 15 American League teams lining up to pay him 15 Mill a year to DH for 3 years. NO DIGGITY !

      So stop with the albatross stuff. It is an easy option IF they want to move him. But the fact is, without Pujols and Fielder ... Howard is probably the best power hitter in the NL. No ?
      zubzub
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:26 AM, 04/05/2013
      I’m not ready to give up on Howard yet; this is typical of power hitters; when he/they get hot they carry the team. Wait till Ruiz and (hopefully) DYoung get here.

      American league teams would take Howard as a dh; if Ben Francisco is acceptable as dh...
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:14 AM, 04/05/2013
      I respect your baseball acumen @zub, and even if I disagree, would certainly be civil in response.

      However, don't you make a huge assumption the Phillies would "EAT" TEN million dollars? This is a team whose ownership let players walk for far less. Look at their free agent signings. That is proof alone, with respect to the OF and starting pitching, players speculated to be pursued. They went the tried and true Bill Giles carnival route. The Braves got Upton, the Phillies never serious contenders in OF help or starting pitchers. The continuing nightmare of Kendrick is still here. Herndon and Martinez were kept to preserve Rule 5 draft status.

      No, your counter argument makes assumptions belied by reality. As to Howard, he runs hot and cold like a faucet, but with correctable problems....if he works at it. Three years and counting, the outside slider in the dirt is another 3rd strike.

      When he hits, who can complain? But, those days are as fleeting as Halladay's fastball.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:32 AM, 04/05/2013
      Think back to how much the Phils paid to get rid of Thome. That's how Howard got here in the first place. If, and I say if, Ruf can produce 80% of Howard's numbers for $400K per year, they would SAVE $15 Mill per year.

      Gillick is the one who made that move. And he's still here.

      Not sayin it will happen. Just that it could. Howard's contract ain't stoppin the Phils from doing anything. That was my point.

      Carry on PhillyBoy !! :)

      Gotta sleep.
      zubzub
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 2:19 AM, 04/05/2013
      Sleep well zub and see you around.

      Asa huge collector of Bowman Chrome Rookie Cards, I was all over a kid named Ryan, blocked by Thome. I remember it as Thome got injured, allowing Howard's ascension.

      You are excellent with stats, but you tend to remember an investment in a card that went up 300%, earning a tidy profit. The only other player I went "all in" on, was Hamels in 2002, following him since college.

      I quit the hobby, but I'm pretty sure Thome was injured, and the Phillies ownership had money pouring in from public funded CBP.

      This "group" ownership is unaccountable, and impenetrable, as Montgomery is only a front. You will never see their books, and the lucrative TV deal for all MLB, has seen a 600% rise in the valuation of the team.

      I can see your points, but memories dim over time. They didn't lose money on Thome, as much as made $$ on Howard, who filled seats and ownership coffers.

      Later, my friend.
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:27 AM, 04/05/2013
      God Bless Cliff Lee! My kids and I love the guy for all he was for us in 2009 and all he did to come back here for 2011.

      Joining the debate about who our #1 is - for me, it's General Lee. If the offense supported the guy, there'd be no debate!
      advantasux
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:23 AM, 04/05/2013
      If you root against the Phillies because you are invested in hating the players and the management you shouldn't be posting here. I would imagine some posters on Nats, Braves, and Mets boards don't like the Phillies, but I would bet that every one of them respects our team more than a certain element here.

      I may have to look elsewhere to find a place where I can talk Phillies with objective, reasonably optimistic, and decent fans of my team who don't call successful grown men "imbeciles" behind the safety of anonymity.
      CallisonTaylorRojas
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:01 AM, 04/05/2013
      @callison, like zub, I respect anyone's right to post, even if it is an obsessive hater, who probably has a restraining order against him, or wears an ankle bracelet.

      We are always free to ignore what we read. I'm a Free Speech kind of guy, and if someone wants to prove their obsessive sickness, let them.

      You can be an objective fan and take issue with effort and performance, and certainly some players who are heartless and play half heartedly.

      I agree that the overuse of "moronic" and "imbecile", have no place on a board where someone proclaims they are the only sensible poster, rational in their thinking, the latter the most ironic comment among all the bashing day in, day out.

      It is hard to accept certain facts, an aging Halladay, that our team, which true fans have passionate feelings for, even if negative at times, might be lesser than the Nats or Braves. But, we have been here before, and we still come back, because we are proud Philadelphia fans.

      I take issue with only one comment you made. As a "survivor" of 10 years in exile in NYC, don't ever think any Met's fan can speak without slobbering. They respect Philly fans by tossing beer at anyone who has the temerity to wear a Phillies cap at that old dump Shea, or that new stadium, Citifield, in appropriately named, FLUSHING, NY.

    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:10 AM, 04/05/2013
      zubster - we can always look forward to positive and informative posts from you. you're one of the few guys on this site i'd enjoy having a beer with and talking baseball (not really looking for a date - i'm 3000 miles away). we really needed that kind of effort from Lee tonight and were lucky to scratch out a few runs for him in 40 degree weather. What jumped out at me was in the 9th inning we saw what a menace Revere is going to be to the opposing pitcher. On 1st with no outs in a close ballgame, he totally disturbed the rythym of Varvaro who fell behind Jimmy 3 and 0. it idn't workout but i have no problem with giving jimmy the red light there. we might not very well be as strong as the Braves and Nats however, i'm looking forward to lots of entertainment team following the home team this season.
      rockinginthefreeworld
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:03 AM, 04/05/2013
      The flail and bail special treatment first baseman has been a lineup cancer for three years.

      How does a professional, paid what he is paid, get fluff articles during Spring Training about wanting to "soak up" the knowledge of Schmidt who was available the whole off-season, not just when Howard HAD to be in camp? No instructional league help, no practice, our Phillie's version of Alan Iverson.

      The truth is Ruf is being asked to play out of position, that being FIRST BASE, and the prevailing wisdom was he is not ready to be a starting Left fielder. If you want real laughs, put Howard in LF. Bench the cancer, bring back Ruf, a legitimate hitter with no holes in his bat and put him at First Base.

      Oh, but someone committed 125 million to an albatross. No self-respecting AL team would take him as a DH in a league which features off speed pitches, over the fastball.

      Utley, Rollins, and Dom Brown, are the only offense on this team. The rest are offensive.
      PhillyboyinNYC
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:52 PM, 04/04/2013
      Next it's Kansas City and then the Mets. Two so-so teams, though some pick the Royals to contend. All 6 games at home. We'll know a lot more about our club a week from now.
      therealeman
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:50 PM, 04/04/2013
      @zubzub --sorry zubzub but I lost respect for you a while ago when you started getting pretty imbecilic at me -- backhanded compliments are the best you're gonna get ... 98% of what you post is nonsense and backhanded insults
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:47 PM, 04/04/2013
      Biscuit. I disagree with what you say, but I always defend your right to say it. Thanks for the back-handed compliment.

      If you are a Phillies fan ... and that's a big IF ... I would not want to sit anywhere near you during, before or after a game.

      Hope you enjoy bashing this team for the rest of the season.

      Thanks CRO.
      zubzub
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:32 PM, 04/04/2013
      @warbiscuit - surprisingly informative post from zubzub? Are you joking? He always posts based on statistical data and is one of the most logical commenters on this board.
      Sam Crow
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:28 PM, 04/04/2013
      @zubzub -- surprisingly informative post for you -- with actual numbers....
      the uninformed get on me for my 'negativity' but I'm just a realist and I've always defended Lee (and Hamels)... unfortunately it looks like the Phils will need those 2 to be close-to-perfect again this year to win any games (and hope Papelbon doesn't have one of his 'giveaway' specials that day)
      and just to include my standard 'realism', Revere and Michael Young so far as are as insignificant 'upgrades' to this team as I (and others) predicted they would be... Revere is a huge handicap in the leadoff spot where he never gets on base and Young is one of the weakest no.5 hitters in baseball
      warbiscuit
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:44 PM, 04/04/2013
      @warbiscuit: As always, you are right on the mark with that comment. It took almost perfection to win this game with just 2 runs put on the board by this "mighty" offense put together by Ruin Jr. One mistake by Lee or Pap and it's another loss. Howard, once again, comes up short, flailing at balls in the dirt while failing to drive in runs. This guy is a clean up hitter? In his and Amaro's dreams. 125 million should get ANY team a real stud, not this "little piece".
      ghost of callison
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:14 AM, 04/05/2013
      Of course, Braves GM put together dream lineup with Upton brothers and young studs but fail to score any runs against pitcher who only won 6 games last year. You can spin it anyway you wish....
      mwcnabb
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:04 PM, 04/04/2013
      That's an ace. Colbert, the psuedo-ace with the contract, needs to slide down to the No.3 slot where he belongs. It'll happen by May.
      TomO
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:02 PM, 04/04/2013
      DPin: Paps needs to stay sharp. Besides, closing in these situations is what he gets paid to do. While I would liked to have seen Lee go 9, I can't complain after seeing Cliff do such a masterful job. Why mess around with success???
      billroc35
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:35 PM, 04/04/2013
      Along with Lee, Pap pitched lights out and it took that to win this game with just a pitiful 2 runs on the board. One little mistake and they would have lost again. Howard is the elephant in the room. He continues to flail at balls in the dirt and, for the 3rd straight game, has come up short when it counted, with men on base. This is a 125 million clean up hitter? My dead grandmother could hit better than the "Little Piece".
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:00 PM, 04/04/2013
      Great game by Lee, but just like last year he had to be great to get the win. Good or average certainly wouldnt have come close with the Phils anemic lineup. Top 4 arent bad although Howard hasnt come around, but the bottom half stinks. Hopefully Ruiz and Young will help out, but Amaro better start looking for some help if he wants this team to have any chance at all in the best division in the NL.
      lazyboy
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:58 PM, 04/04/2013
      Thanks Cliff. We needed that.

      Opening the debate about our #1 pitcher. Since Lee got here (again)

      LEE
      63 starts 24-17 6 complete 6 shutouts 453 Ks 70 BBs 2.78 ERA 1.09 WHIP
      HAMELS
      64 starts 31-16 5 complete 2 shutouts 415 Ks 97 BBs 2.99 ERA 1.06 WHIP

      ... run support not included.
      zubzub
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:00 AM, 04/05/2013
      Lee's last 10 regular season starts are mind-boggling:

      10 games
      71 innings pitched
      11 earned runs
      73 strikeouts
      5 walks

      That's a 1.39 ERA.
      s
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:56 PM, 04/04/2013
      2 runs for Lee, sounds like they are picking right up where they let off last year.
      zonaindie2
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:55 PM, 04/04/2013
      CAN WE PLEASE FREAKING, FRACKETY, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP HOWARD FROM AT LEAST BATTING CLEAN UP?!?!? PLEASE. IS IT JUST ME WATCHING HIS GARBAGE.
      Campatent
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:53 PM, 04/04/2013
      Lee seems to be getting better with age. Good time to silence the Braves and their egos.
      bossrjc
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:53 PM, 04/04/2013
      A hot Cliff Lee could shoulder some of load that Halladay may have been expected to carry.

      Ben Revere got the first rbi on a groundout that had to be worst at bat I have ever seen from a major leaguer - literally jumped off the ground at the first two pitches. What is that all about ? I know the bases were loaded but YOU are not the homerun hitter for this team.

      Just glad the two runs were enough on this brutal weather conditions.

      1 -2 sure looks a lot better than 0 - 3.
      candidly
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:44 PM, 04/04/2013
      Why haven't they started calling him "General Lee"?
      idshull
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:44 PM, 04/04/2013
      So happy that Cliff got his first victory in April rather than July. (Remember last year?) He provided the lift this team and its fans needed, and thankfully, Charlie didn't let him try for the complete game shut out. Perhaps the manager has learned a lesson from overusing Roy? Time for the offense to get going...
      DPinDC
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:43 PM, 04/04/2013
      Thanks, Cliff! At least for one one night, we won't have to hear how great the Braves' offense is.
      nmlawyer
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:41 PM, 04/04/2013
      Lee should be the #2 in this rotation. Maybe #1. Getting swept to start the season against your division rival would have been bad. Good to get out of Atlanta with a win.
      Sam Crow
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:38 PM, 04/04/2013
      Lee was absolutely dirty, tonight. Kudos to one starter showing up this series. The lineup smells like early season jitters with a lot of men left on base, but at least we're getting the hits. Jimmy and Chase both had good series, but Howard has got to come around. He smacked one in his final at-bat, but for the love of all that is holy, he's swung at some terrible pitches early on. Looks like he's forgot everything he was doing right in spring training and has picked up his old bad habits. In order for this team to win, especially with Doc looking like a 4th or 5th starter (I think Kendrick is poised for a big year), Howard has got to hit .270 . We can't have another .230-.240 season out of him.
      troegs76
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:38 PM, 04/04/2013
      I smellz a World Series Champhionship, Broad Street parade here we come!!!
      APhillyDump
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:31 PM, 04/04/2013
      Lee.... filthy tonight
      HAROLD Eskin
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 4:42 AM, 04/05/2013
      Definition of a 'stopper.'

      24sDad
    • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:30 PM, 04/04/2013
      Wow, so the Phillies lost two out of three on the road in Atlanta in the first series of the year. The season is over, go Eagles!
      CallisonTaylorRojas


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