Video: Holmgren gets passing grade for trades
Video: The Philadelphia Flyers added two defensemen before the NHL's trade deadline, but will it be enough for a Stanley Cup run? The Daily News' Frank Seravalli gives his take.
Video: Holmgren gets passing grade for trades
Video: The Philadelphia Flyers added two defensemen before the NHL's trade deadline, but will it be enough for a Stanley Cup run? The Daily News' Frank Seravalli gives his take.
Comments (20)
Vinny1925, sorry to say this, but you are the type of poster that frustrates me on this board. You are completely and totally enamoured with the jersey that these players are wearing, and that is affecting your judgement. Giroux is an elite offensive player. I really like what Courturier brings to the game. Saying that group is "arguably the best set of young centers in the league" is pretty unreasonable. You could argue it, but you would never win that argument. If those players came into town on another team, and you weren't simply looking at the fact that they play on your favorite team, you wouldn't notice anyone other than Giroux. Perhaps you need to see Edmonton play, or Colorado...Their young players are also contributing. Wanting a player to be great one day, does not make him great at the moment.— Hexy4GM- Flyeran8, interestingly...it is the work ethic of the new players that is exactly what I question. They appear to not bother working when they don't have the puck. Don't be fooled by goals and points when it comes to effort.— Hexy4GM
- It's all about momentum - the Dallas Stars come to mind as a team that won the President's Cup during the regular season, only to bow out in the first round. San Jose was another example (up until about 2 yrs ago).
Remember, our 2010 Stanley Cup finalist team made the playoffs on the last game of the regular season.
Anything can happen in the playoffs.
Hexy4GM: Your analysis excludes the effect of trading last year's players on the ones still around: Giroux has upped his game from great player to MVP nominee, and Hartnell is arguably playing as well as any power winger in the league.
And with Giroux, Couturier, and Schenn, we have arguably the best set of young centers in the league.— Vinny1925 
aantny88, I agree 100%. The one thing you didnt mention about the new additions is work ethic. Something I dont think anyone would disagree was lacking with the LA boys.- Hexy4GM...not sure where you are getting your stats, but according to the NHL website, between Richards, Carter and Versteeg they have 54 goals, 51 assists for 105 points. If you're including Leino he wasn't traded and in essence Jagr is his replacement and is outscoring him by quite a bit. The players he received in those deals, Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek and Couturier have 51 goals, 54 assists, for 105 points. Exactly the same amount! How is this regression when the players are: 1)younger, 2)faster, 3)bigger and 4)cap friendly? They are 3rd in the division due to poor goaltending and defensive breakdowns. Nothing to do with the trades Holmgren made last summer. If I were you I wouldn't quit my day job!— aantny88
- You missed Darrell Powe. Who by the way, did a far better job with this team than Schenn has this season. Did it with a significantly smaller cap hit, as well. You need to watch the "defensive" breakdowns with someone who understands the game a little better. It is not the goalie, it is not the defensemen, it is the center. If you notice the 4 players that were traded, 3 of them were centers. The 2 centers that were received, have not had a defensive impact (altho Couturier has been great in the very limited role/minutes he gets). Schenn keeps getting touted as "having potential" and getting a pass because of it. The gaping hole in defensive coverage, left by not having a solid face-off/defensive centre has this team "having potential" to miss the playoffs entirely. — Hexy4GM
- excellent video, but one thing I disagre with you on Frank,
Kubina and Grossman have both been terrific these first two weeks.
This is the main reaosn why Bryz is starting to play better, but his balance moving to his left is still not right.— sdeens - It's a rebuilding year so don't expect a Cup but I expect this young team to get the playoff jitters out of the way this year for a better and much deeper run next year. Hopefully the goalie circus will be a distant memory by then too. Go Flyers!— Fly Guy
- No it will not be enough. They will do what they have done for years. Not win anything. The wells fargo center is for suckers. Why anyone would waste money to see either of the two pathetic jokes that play there is beyond me.— rich729
- IT is what it is.....Only time will tell....
Go Flyers Go.— shmoo - So, I did a little math on the off season trades. Interestingly, the players that Holmgren received in trades have scored 50 goals, added 54 assists, for a total of 104 points. The players that Holmgren traded in the offseason have 55 goals, 59 assists, for a total of 114 points. Last year, the Flyers finished the season 3rd overall in the NHL, and this year they are currently 3rd in their division. Last year at this time, there was hope that the team could win the Stanley Cup, this year there is far less hope. I had always been impressed with the team that Holmgren assembled with the parts he was given, however last summer he set this franchise back. The only move he has left for this year, is to bring in a structured defensive coach. This years team has skill, but lacks effort and direction on most nights. I feel like Laviolette's screaming is falling on deaf ears.— Hexy4GM
- I am very much with you! Someone like Larry Robinsson please. Or anyone that knows the game like him... Been wondering about it for years now.
Carle, Mesz and Coburn did not take any steps forward in their development. I have no idea how Coburn is going to play without Timonen. Probably is going to run around like a chicken with his head cutoff. That’s our 4.5M d-men. Yikes!
— Nitroglycerin - Come on Hexy. This is a bogus analysis. First off, you keep telling me not to focus on goals and assists, and here you are again focusing on that yourself. Second, you are just factoring in the players received in trades vs. players given up in the trades, which is unfair to compare straight up b/c it does not take into account the other benefits of the trades (such as draft picks, freed up money to get other players, etc.). And, you fail to factor in additions and subtractions to the team not from trades.
For example: In the Richards trade, we received two players AND a 2nd round pick, AND we saved about 1 million in cap room. That cap space freed us up (partially and with additionally savings from getting rid of Carter) to go get Jagr and others. The draft pick helped us land a boost to our D (can't remember if used for Grossman or Kubina).
As for new acquisitions vs. players let go (not traded), just look at the loss of Ville Leino, replaced by Jagr-- the latter of whom came at a lesser cost and is playing much better. Your analysis misses that benefit to the team entirely.
In short, to compare traded players vs. traded players alone is meaningless. If you want to compare fairly, you have to look at the entirety of the trades (including saved money, picks, etc.) and compare the production of NEW PLAYERS TO THE TEAM vs. PLAYERS NO LONGER WITH THE TEAM. I bet you will find that the current roster is producing at a higher rate than the exiles. Go ahead and prove me wrong. - I am the one who believes that stat comparison from team-to-team is not valid. However, I am pointing out that EVEN WITH this statistics (which are the ones most people point out) the Flyers have not gotten better. They never replaced Mike Richards. What they lack is a centre ice presence that has an impact on the defensive side. The Richards/Carter trades freed up less cap room than it took to pay Jagr, Bryzgalov, and Schenn. People always want to pick and choose where the money is spent depending upon who is hot at that time. Sometimes it's Simmonds, Read, Courturier, Talbot...whoever has a good game that day, makes the Richards trade worth it.
Your assessment of the Flyers saving money by replacing Leino with Jagr is sort of insane as well. They paid Leino 800K, and are paying Jagr 3.3 million. Or are you under the belief that Terry Pegula should negotiate contracts for the Flyers?
The reality is that, I personally, don't care about the trades on a person-by-person basis. I care that the Flyers played in the Stanley Cup finals in 2010, and now they are lost. Don't have a win against a team in a playoff position since Feb 2nd (Nashville). During that time they have lost all 6 games versus playoff teams.
The title of this article is "Holmgren Gets Passing Grade For Trades" I just pointed out that maybe he shouldn't. Or perhaps a "passing grade" isn't enough for a team that was amongst the finalists for the Stanley Cup in 2010.— Hexy4GM - If they play Florida or Washington they have a decent chance to make the second round. If the Flyers are up against Winnipeg or the Bruins, or the Rangers, or the Devils, or the Penguins I say toss a coin... the goalie will be the difference and I hope Bryz plays well (even if we they don't make it too far) just so he doesn't get run out of town.— Philly North
- You never know with the Flyers how far they will go. If Bryz can continue to improve, who knows maybe he'll get hot in the playoffs and dominate.— Fir_Na_Tine
- I presume you had them in the Stanley Cup final with Leighton? The flyers go where they goaltending takes them.— CanadianPhilly
- @CanadianPhilly, goaltending did not take Flyers to SC finals. Pronger did. — Nitroglycerin
- I hope not franklinztower, but I agree with you.— dianne16
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Frequent Flyers is your home for news and analysis of all things orange and black.
Reach Frank at seravaf@phillynews.com.
Frank Seravalli
Daily News Sports Columnist
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