Good-bye, NHL season?
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Good-bye, NHL season?
Sam Carchidi, Inquirer Staff Writer
The NHL season seems on the verge of being canceled after talks with federal mediators broke off on Thursday without any progress.
The mediators were dismissed for the time being, meaning they had two whole days to intervene.
Two.
"We are disappointed the mediation process was not successful," said Bill Daly, the NHL's deputy commissioner, on the 75th day of the lockout.
On Twitter, fans roasted the owners and players.
Tweeted Flyer_Bully: "....flyer fan for over 35 years now, and I'm done, they can all shove it."
ESPN reported that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman proposed to Donald Fehr, the NHLPA boss, a meeting between owners and players _ without league or players' association officials.
Fehr and the players are apparently considering it.
Fehr did not address the issue when he released a statement, saying the mediators "informed the parties they did not think it was productive to continue the discussions further today." He added that the mediators would "stay in contact" and "call the parties back together when they thought the time was right."
This would be the second NHL season canceled in the last nine years.
There are numerous issues on the table, including how to divide hockey-related revenue _ it reached a record $3.3 billion last season _ free agency, arbitration, and length of contracts.
The NHL's latest offer was a 50/50 split of hockey revenue and $211million toward the "make whole" provision, which goes toward players' salaries. The players would agree to a 50/50 divide if it included $393 million.
But even if that issue is resolved, Daly said in an email, there are many other areas in which the sides are far apart.
There is a Board of Governors meeting Wednesday, during which more games could be canceled. As it stands, games have been canceled through Dec. 14.
Follow Sam Carchidi on Twitter @BroadStBull.
Comments (69)
How such a beautiful game as ice hockey can be connected to such a complete clusterfornication of a league as this I simply cannot understand.
The Berliners are probably jumping up and down in joy right now.
If I see our two guys hoisting the WRONG CUP over their heads, I will kiss the Flyers goodbye in all but my childhood memories. The past is the past.— janiscortese- Hockey should just shoot itself and put itself out of its misery. What a bunch of greedy fools. I use to love hockey, now I am sick and tired of this kind of stuff. Take hockey and shove it!!!— flyersfev
- Yeah. Welcome to Philadelphia. We used to have a really good hockey team. — janiscortese
- Jan: Yep, good for decades. I only hope they get a little better and win another Cup before I die.
- Hard as it is to say, I've been hoping that for a little too long, and I'm sick of it. — janiscortese
- Ladies and gentlemen, you are preaching to the choir.
Go here
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=35629
to make your feelings known to the Flyers.
or here
http://www.nhl.com/ice/feedback.htm
to make your feelings known to the NHL.
— backhand - I'm betting what happened was the mediators were empathetic to the players and the owners want total victory or nothing so they got rid of them— Dutch10
- Bingo!
It only takes one side in a Federal mediation to dismiss the mediators and I'm certain you're right, the owners didn't like what they were hearing from the mediators and stormed out.
Read the Forbes article to find out why.
http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
Player salaries are not the cause of the problems that 17 teams are having.
— backhand - The NHL should have 24 total teams in its league. I get that its a worldwide sport, but its secondary in the US.
- don't miss it, my beer league is more exciting anyway...haven't heard yet..."man I really miss the NHL". Go away.— cleflyer
- The only positive thing for me personally, is that I don't have to rush home from *playing* hockey to catch the 4PM Pacific time start of Flyers games.
The cool thing about playing hockey is that for sixty minutes you're so focused on the game that nothing else intrudes into your consciousness. Even fat Gary Bettman. Otherwise, you *lose* consciousness. :-)
Having said that, I'd prefer to rush home to catch the start of Flyers games.
— backhand - It is past time for the NHLPA to decertify and have players sue the NHL in Federal Court to get injunctive relief from the illegal lockout. I suggest that they file in the 9th Circuit, since three NHL teams are in California, within the 9th Circuit's jurisdiction.
The NHL is trying to make up money they lost from bad business decisions by stealing from the players (who, once again sports fans, are willing to play under the terms of the just-expired CBA but the NHL refused).
Lobby your congressional delegation to repeal the anti-trust law exemptions granted to the NHL. This situation would not be occurring without those exemptions.
— backhand - I have been a Flyers Fan since day 1 and I really don't care anymore about the NHL or the Flyers, Thanks Ed, and stop sending me articles about how you support youth hockey in the area, what an insult.— mrh1955
- Good! I hope all the greedy players and all the greedy owners lose big time. Cannot wait until baseball Spring training.— oneway
- Good, I get my hockey fix watching my sin play. When's the NCAA tourney?— 2ndNlong
- *son*...Freudian slip, though I eventually married his mother.— 2ndNlong
- "Levity"- At this point "Gallows Humor" is in order.
It did make me chuckle though......— SpokaneFlyer - Isn't there an NHL Board of Governors meeting this week? If so, which owners are on it...and do any of them (Ed Snider) have the guts to say "Gary, we've gone as far as we can and the players aren't breaking, so let's get back to the table and hammer out a deal."— Roll Tide!
- Sad to say, Bettman is thinking that the players caved after missing the entire season in 2005 and they'll do the same again.
Go Dawgs. - I fear you are right, Ken. How disappointing! (And while I dislike the "Go Dawgs" comment, at least one of us will be celebrating a BCS title after beating up on ND.) — Roll Tide!
- "Isn't there an NHL Board of Governors meeting this week? If so, which owners are on it...".
Every team has one governor and two alternates. The current chairman of the Board of governors is Boston Bruins owner, Jeremy Jacobs.
— backhand - Thanks, backhand. Jeremy Jacobs' presence won't help. — Roll Tide!
- The Tide is the University of Alabama - the Crimson Tide.
The Dawgs are the University of Georgia - the Bulldogs.
It's Bama vs Georgia for the SEC title on Saturday.— Go Dawgs - The NHL is like MLB this is a cultural and the western canadian rough neck doesn't trust and never will the owner. There is really bad blood here and the proof is another season cancelled inside of a decade.........a marginal sport cannot afford it - as revenue's will be slashed........— Northcountry
- "a marginal sport cannot afford it - as revenue's will be slashed........"
I wish you were correct, but if fan behavior after the last lock-out is any indicator of future behavior, revenues will soar, again.
— backhand - So they're being rewarded for this behavior -- at least, the owners are. Thus there's no reason for them not to do the same thing in the future. BPHL -- the Bipolar Hockey League.
I really wish this were not the only sport I enjoyed watching. Basketball gives me hives, and football and baseball put me to sleep.— janiscortese - "So they're being rewarded for this behavior -- at least, the owners are."
Yes.
Although in the short term 17 teams still have to service the massive debt they acquired in the leveraged purchase of the franchise with no revenues coming in.
Where they will get that money is an open question, but it's safe to say they'll be forced to take the corporate equivalent of a "payday loan" with its concomitant predatory interest. Which in the long term will put them in more debt. Which they will unashamedly blame on the players.
Take a look at the Forbes Magazine chart. Ignore everything but "Debt/Value" ration. Click on that colume to sort it by the ration and find a surprise.
Here is the chart: http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
Is there a Flame Broiler near Anaheim Ice? :-)
— backhand - I guarantee Flyer_Bully will be watching Flyers games once the NHL resumes.— toph314
- See ya, Flyers. I'm never watching another NHL game.— trungy
- Good. Now the owners can learn the difference between quibbling about 3-4% and losing an entire season of revenue. In fact, both sides should learn a valuable lesson from this. If the fans are smart , they'll take their good old time supporting this sport again when they come back in 2013; that's the 2nd time in a decade that the season is lost, and this isn't the NFL or MLB. Good luck at getting your fan base back, and buh-bye.— drbob1
- What an outrage! How will I survive without watching Leaky Leighton play? Seriously, it's sad to see Claude Giroux losing a prime season because of this mutual madness (more so on the part of the millionaire players, who cannot win against billionaire owners).— eagle1971
- Another Union Victory for the Common Man.— sillybilly
- As dumb as these guys have been, I can't see them actually cancelling the season over this. The owners are threatening it to get the players to cave as much as possible out of fear of losing another season of salary, but I don't think they will cave because of Fehr. This is just a cash grab for the owners, so they will grab as much as they can then start the season at the last possible second.— rums623
- I hope you are right.
If they cancel the season I would expect to see several teams forced into bankruptcy because of the massive debt load they are carrying. While not paying salaries saves them money, not receiving any revenue means they will have a harder time servicing that debt.
Since declaring bankruptcy triggers an automatic seizure of the franchise by the NHL (see Phoenix) it's unlikely the profitable franchisees would be willing to contribute more of their revenue to support them, as they are now with Phoenix.
We will see after the Board of Governors meeting.
— backhand - What a shame. The Flyers will be fine but more and more teams will be in financial trouble as people stop caring. The NHL better be careful before it becomes as small as Arena Football.— Phillies2008WSChamps
- I agree. They can all shove it. The players will lose a year of their athletic lives that they will never get back. Some will never play again. Their bodies will age, and they will have lost their ability. Hockey is barely more popular than horse racing. Who needs it. Let the sport die. Doesn't matter to me if they ever play again. I have found a lot more things to do with my time than watch a sport run by absolute, abject, greedy, self-absorbed morons. Hey, players and owners! Bettman and Fehr will continue to make their money. You won't. Are you that stupid that you would allow these two morons to destroy your investment? Your careers? Really? Unbelievable and unending STUPIDITY.— farside37
- The Hockey News reported in this week's edition that there are 95 current NHL players who will not be back in 2013-2014, due to the lock-out. This is over and above the normal turnover rate. They are all veterans in the last year of their contract.
More bad news: Not a single Flyer made their list of most-hated players in the NHL. We are slipping.
— backhand - Almost time to downgrade my comcast to bare basic service.can`t stand basketball.Can`t stand the big mouth on Eagles post game live any more.Phils will have to get hot to upgrade.— bill the pill
- Maybe if Fast Eddie Snider spent a little more time at the bargaining table and little less time chasing women younger than his daughter, the season might be saved.
— TexColorado - Touche' - I was wondering how long it would take for someone to hit on old "Eddie" — SpokaneFlyer
- What a minute. Are you telling me that owning an NHL franchise affords the opportunity of dating younger women?
You know, I was thinking, Tuscaloosa, Alabama is an untapped market for NHL hockey. I'm sure I could manage to leverage myself into a franchise there. I'm also sure I could get the good citizens there to build an arena with lots of luxury suites for me at their expense, because I would be creating jobs.A city can never have too many hot dog and cotton candy vendors.
Anybody have Gary Bettman's number?
— backhand - Cut the league back to 16 teams in cities where there is support of more than 12,000 fans. No TV deal will more than likely force a contraction, would be best for the game long term. Back to the '67 expansion line + 5 franchises.— Northcountry
- The owners and players are absolutely disgusting. Another season cancelled is incomprehensible. My son was complaining that "my only clean shirts are Flyers shirts and I'm not going to wear them", because he (10) doesn't want to support the Flyers or the NHL. This family is done with the NHL for good.— beerleaguer
I truly miss the game and was hoping to forget the sorrows of the Birds...I guess I'll have to wait for Spring Training. Thanks NHL:(— cange/30- More ugly face time for Ed and his lovely new wife to be.— albrock
- The Stanley Cup transcends this stupid league... I'd love to see it awarded to a champ in another league. I'd be cool with it going to the KHL champ, Swedish Elite champ, Frozen Four winner, Memorial Cup winner... I'm not picky but I think it should have been awarded the last time the season was cancelled and should definitely be awarded this time.— hillbillybirdsfan
- who cares. I hope the players and owners lose tons of money.— joeynick
- What a surprise. I'm a Flyers fan for almost 40 years and I'm disgusted by this league. As much as it kills me to say this, if another season is lost then it might be time for me to move on.— Fly Guy
- What Bettman and the owners don't realize is that many of us have canceled the NHL. So it doesn't really matter what they decide or when they decide it, many are not spending another cent on them.— txflyer
- Even though both sides have their valid issues they want resolved, to lose an entire season is so crazy. Sometimes you get the impression in these negotiations that neither the owners or the players fear for the future of the league. If they really thought the fans were not coming back, this wouldn't even be an option, and they would be at the negotiating table every day...instead of every other week.— ryanrockzzz
- Ladies and gentlemen, you are preaching to the choir.
Go here
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=35629
to make your feelings known to the Flyers or here
http://www.nhl.com/ice/feedback.htm
to make your feelings known to the NHL.— backhand 
Thank God I still get to watch my son's AAA team. Bettman is THE WORST!
The surprise in my point of view is that the NHL has lasted this long. The old guard resented the idea of the expansion cycle that saw the Flyers enter the league with 5 other teams and its been a quiet civil war ever since.
There was reason for hope when Ballard and Wirtz passed on to the Big Bush League In The Sky, but the regionally popular league tried to compete with its three bigger cousins and hasn't yet figured out how to do that in a mutually beneficial way that doesn't cost them something in the process.
For my entertainment, I've tracked the history of pro sports in North America, and have learned that the early part of the 20th century saw leagues come and go like free agents do nowadays. The current leagues emerged from such chaos to become stronger.
If only the NHL could be smarter than it has been of late. It's too regional to be a 30-city circuit. It needs to concentrate on making the game profitable in traditional cities that have a history of hockey. They've got to make the Maple Leafs accept a team in Hamilton. They got to accept that they will never be the NFL or even the NBA. They should know what their niche is and develop it.— Atomic Fury- I agree with everything you stated but this:
"The old guard resented the idea of the expansion cycle that saw the Flyers enter the league with 5 other teams and its been a quiet civil war ever since."
The original six benefited handsomely from the first expansion in 1967. They may have held their noses at the thought of hockey in LaLa land, but they deposited the expansion fees readily enough.
Every expansion since has benefited the existing franchisees. That's why they intend to add two more teams, in Quebec City, and Markham, Ontario. Each of those franchises will result in a $200M franchise fee divided among the 30 existing franchisees (plus an indemnification fee to the Toronto Maple Leafs likely to be in the $100M range, which is one reason the Leafs are worth $1B).
The new league alignment the NHL proposed had four conferences with 8 teams in each western conference, but only 7 in the two eastern conferences. Each eastern conference would get one additional team from the expansion to bring them up to 8.
"Grow or Die" is their motto.
— backhand - this is the hockey version of democrats versus republicans and you know how that's moving along. NOT.— tmq
- Every time there is a glimmer of hope, it gets squashed like an annoying bug. I am very sick of this whole mess and just wonder why no one will work out a compromise. Its starting to me me sour on the whole sport, and this is the one sport I follow and love above all others. It is the most exciting, hard hitting and fun sport to watch (in my opinion) and the prospect of facing two lost seasons makes me sick.
BTW backhand, I have Bettman's number. It is toll free: 1-800-IMA DBAG.— ena1977 - Dear Mr. Snider, I will NEVER attend another Flyers game, I will NEVER buy another Flyers jersey, I will NEVER spend another dime on your organization as long as I'm alive, and maybe even after I die!!
-Frustrated fan— CoettaGarner25 - Everyone follow the links posted by backhand and send the Flyers and the NHL a message that we're fed up with this situation. Squeaky wheel . . .— CoettaGarner25
- We can send all the emails we want, post tons of comments, bombard the owners/players with hate mail and negative commentary. But quite honestly, they don't give a rats behind about the fans. Either side. The fans are so secondary it almost renders us irrelevant. Sure they may lose some of the fringe fans but the hardcore fans always come back. I know because I'm one of them. Even if the season was 30 games, I'd watch every one. I'd love to boycott the Flyers but deep in my heart I don't think I can do it. I just love the sport too much. I also wonder how much of the blame Snider should really get. I'm sure him and a few other of the successful, money making franchises are tired of paying charity for the less successful teams to stay afloat. If you can't make it succeed, you don't get a franchise. Easy as that. That is where Bettman made a huge mistake. Expanding too fast into weak markets then making others help keep them afloat is a recipe for disaster. Snider grew hockey in this city from nothing-hell he had to beg for a loan and finally found someone who actually knew what hockey was and they took a risk on him. He built up his franchise from nothing and didn't get any handouts. If he did it, why can't others do that? I guess they'd rather take charity (or revenue sharing as the league calls it). There are disputes between owners and players, but I think there are disputes between the owners too.— ena1977
- I disagree that communicating our displeasure is futile. I have been in the business world for over 45 years and can state emphatically that customer feedback *does* get management's attention.
But do NOT take the tact that @CoettaGarner25 suggests in his comment to Ed Snider above. While I understand the anger and frustration it expresses, and share it, it is not the way to get a favorable response from management. Don't tell them you are already done with them. Tell them you *will* be done with them if they don't resolve this dispute, and resolve it quickly.
Mention how much money you have *already* spent on tickets, merchandise, NHL Center Ice, parking, and concessions. Put a dollar amount on it. Avoid abusive language, Remain businesslike but be clear that as a fan, and more importantly, as one of their sources of revenue, you are not amused.— backhand - As like all of you, I am disgusted with this lockout. I don't blame the players because they have signed contracts, an agreement to perform for a said amount of money per season. I would not be happy if my company said I'm reducing your bonus and cutting your salary because I'm to greedy. Some union would step in and sue for me. (I am not a union member). The greedy owners are the bottom feeders on the Forbes list. If I own a franchise in the real world, my competitor doesn't support me with "sharing" their profits. Nashville offers a player $28m signing bonus before the lockout and cries poor! Sure the Ed Sniders of the league are sending "support" to Nashville to pay for the signing bonus blocking the Flyers from signing the same player. Why doesn't bettman step in and void stupid deals by stupid owners. And for you Snider bashers, the Flyers always try to put a winning team on the ice, using the rules and creating a spending plan to get what they want. Ed Snider does a lot of "sharing" in the surrounding area which in the long run benefits both local hockey and the Flyers by attracting new fans.
How about the fans strike by sending season tickets back, meeting in front of NHL arenas as a protest and if the season ever returns let them play in empty arenas, no money from concession stands, no cheering or booing the opposition...Crosby sucks. And then start a new cheer..Bettman sucks! But none of that will ever happen because, as fans, we're to greedy for hockey and would run back as soon as the doors open. Glad I gave up my partial plan! Now a 3 hour drive to watch my son's college team play.— little aj - "How about the fans strike by sending season tickets back, ...", etc.
A laudable goal, but while not impossible, highly improbable to achieve. The main reason the owners are able to ride out a lock-out is that they already have in their accounts the money from season ticket holders. Maybe not a full house worth, but enough to weather the storm since they aren't paying salaries.
For your plan to work, current season ticket holders would have to ask for a refund, and you would have to hope that no one on the waiting list stepped up to purchase the seats. Both are, unfortunately, high unlikely to occur. Current season ticket holders are going to be very reluctant to surrender seats they may have had for years (decades?), and folks on the waiting list will be hard pressed to NOT jump at the chance to get in the game.
Season ticket holders (individuals and corporations) are unwittingly helping to finance the lockout. And the NHL counts on it.— backhand - Also if this ever ends, fire bettman and hire Ed Rendell as commissioner.— little aj
Who will get what percentage of ZERO of my dollars?
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Broad Street Bull is the Inquirer's blog covering the Philadelphia Flyers and the National Hockey League.
Reach Sam at scarchidi@phillynews.com.
Sam Carchidi
Inquirer Staff Writer
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