The myth behind Vick's 2011 injuries
Update: Lots of good feeback on this post, so I answered some questions in a second post.
The myth behind Vick's 2011 injuries
Sheil Kapadia, Philly.com
Update: Lots of good feeback on this post, so I answered some questions in a second post.
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I was doing some research over the weekend for an offseason project and came across a couple Michael Vick nuggets worth sharing.
As we approach mini-camps, OTAs and eventually training camp, there will be a lot written and said about Vick's injuries and how his ability to stay healthy will go a long way in determining the Eagles' success in 2012.
For the record, I agree with that part.
But the rest of the narrative might focus on Vick's "reckless" play. You might hear that he missed three games last year and failed to finish two more. And that those injuries occurred because Vick too often left the pocket, scrambled or refused to slide.
That notion, I discovered, is a bit misguided.
I went back and looked at Vick's injuries from a year ago. By my count, there were four significant ones reported by the team: the concussion that knocked him out of the Falcons game; the bruised right hand that knocked him out of the first Giants meeting; the finger injury against the 49ers; and the two broken ribs against the Cardinals that caused him to miss the next three games.
Here's a breakdown of what happened on the four plays where Vick is believed to have sustained those injuries.
Concussion: Vick dropped back and completed a 9-yard pass to Jeremy Maclin. But LeSean McCoy did a poor job of picking up blitzing Falcons safety William Moore on Vick's front side. Moore hit Vick, who spun around and bumped into right tackle Todd Herremans. He left the game with a concussion. But this injury had nothing to do with Vick being reckless. He executed the play well, and his teammate (McCoy) didn’t do his job. It was also a freak injury. Vick did not suffer the concussion because he was hit by Moore. It happened because he collided with his own right tackle.
Bruised right hand: The Eagles ran a play-action fake against the Giants, and Vick delivered a beautiful 23-yard completion to Maclin. This was not a designed roll-out, but rather, Vick stayed in the pocket. Giants defensive lineman Chris Canty nailed him right under the chin with his helmet. A penalty could have been called on the play, but the refs didn't throw a flag, causing Vick to publicly complain about receiving unfair treatment in his post-game press conference. But again, Vick was in the pocket and completed a pass on the play.
Injured finger: By now, you may be starting to sense a pattern. Against San Francisco, Vick stood in the pocket and delivered a 7-yard completion to McCoy. But 49ers defensive lineman Justin Smith got some pressure against Jason Peters around the edge and hit Vick's finger as he released the football. The play occurred in the second quarter, but Vick completed 30 of 46 passes for 416 yards in the game.
Broken ribs: And finally, Andy Reid said Vick sustained two broken ribs on the second play of the Cardinals game when linebacker Daryl Washington came untouched on Vick's front side and nailed him as he got rid of the ball to Brent Celek for a 13-yard gain. Vick went on to play perhaps his worst game as an Eagle, completing just 16 of 34 passes for 128 yards and a pair of interceptions.
Four injuries on four plays. And in each instance, Vick not only was in the pocket, but he completed the pass.
Don't get me wrong. Vick needs to do his best to avoid unnecessary hits. He needs take care of his body and the football for the Eagles' offense to be successful.
But any suggestion that the injuries he sustained in 2011 were due to him leaving the pocket, running recklessly or not sliding are off-base.
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- @TNE ... you're right. that was andy ball at its 'finest'. the run/pass ratio was at its most ridiculous. and with 50-odd dropbacks, mcnabb's stamina would have been taxed to add running to the mix. all that notwithstanding, over the long haul, it was a combination of andy AND donovan that nullified #5 as a dual-threat qb more than any defenses ever did.
— poetx - finally. this irks the hell out of me. and for the record, against ATL vick didn't spin, he was slung into herremans by moore. that was completely out of his control.
i'm also glad that you mentioned that he completed the pass on each of these plays. he made the correct reads (i rewatched during the games), and there were no hot reads. these plays blew up pretty quickly.
if anything, these are the types of plays that people who only watch the highlights would think that he has never made -- standing tough in the pocket and delivering the ball accurately in the face of pressure in his face.
he's done that throughout his career, but with him, perception == reality, and folks would rather craft their own narrative, presumably so that they can lift entire paragraphs from autocomplete.
that said, were there some shots he took last year where i thought 'oh, damn, that was unnecessary'? sure. and that's part of his maturation process. learning when to give up on plays. but you are absolutely right in that the signature plays that caused his injuries were not due to style of play. and despite much improvement, the line was not keeping him as pristine as we'd like to believe, in retrospect.
— poetx - You are right Igglesfan79. The straw the broke the camels back were the other hits he was taking in the pocket trying not to run for his life. I dont know if you saw last season but the first 5 games were brutal on the offensive line. So bad their first round pick couldnt get on the field because he was allowing Vick to be powerdrived too many times and got benched. Our 6th round center while good at pulling for run plays was being abused by the bigger defensive tackles. Last year's first 5 games was too big to overcome because not only did we have a weak offensive line but our defense was weaker. Even when the line began to jell Reid had to move the pocket left and right just to create some angles so the line could function well enough for Vick to complete a pass in 3 seconds from snap. Excellent work Sheil. Hopefully our line can be strong from start to finish this year and allow Vick the kind of time Mcnabb enjoyed in the pocket most of his career. Vick has the accuracy and Qbing skill to have a MVP season. What is going to dictate that is the offensive line continuity and Vick's ability to read the blitz and adjust protection to it. I think Vick is adequate at it. But blitz's are made for every game. Vick also has to learn how to checkdown sometimes. He always wants that big play and dumping off to Shady isnt a bad option.— Zeru
- I remember that play like it was yesterday. He was IN THE POCKET and it looked like the guy took him by his legs, spent him around and baseball batted him into this own offensive lineman. It was the craziest play i've ever seen in football that didnt get a penalty.— Zeru
- Great posting, Sheil. I think I may have been guilty of assigning the blame of these injuries to his style of play, but the recount of how they occur has jogged my memory. You're right, they were all plays that were run as any QB would have run them, nothing specifically "reckless" that Vick did.
Now as to the question of his fragility. Vick is extremely tough, no doubt, but regardless of how he suffered the injuries, these little nicks, bumps, bruises have greatly affected how often he's available to lead the Eagles.— JofreyRice - If I'm so wrong, why are people like Bill Lyon writing articles openly pondering whether Vick will learn to slide? You can't blame the O-line for Vick's inability to quickly read defenses.
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/lyon_vicks_promise_to_slide_cant_be_kept/8591170— IgglesFan79 - All the facts and all the issues you bring up about Vick and how he has been hurt and how that has hurt our team. I dont blame anyone for stating the fact's but lets not forget that Vick is a special type of player that changed the quarterback position since he has been in the league. One good heads up is that dont forget that AR changed this man's playing style to a totaly different one then he was used to playing in ATL he never has or never will be a pocket QB. Vick is an athletic man who can extend the play as we all know he wil never be a Brady, Manning or Brees he is the phenom that started the pathway for teams to take chances on those types of QB like Cam Newton, RG111.Personally i don't know why everyone thinks that AR is such a good QB coach he never changed the way Mcnabb threw the ball (to the ground)and he really never established a good pocket QB. Kolb was never really that good first off and i just dont see AR as a QB coach at all. Let Mick Vick play his game but in a smarter way then we will see how our season goes this year— bernie27
- Making Vick a pocket passer might be the reason why he gets hurt. When he is rolling out, he knows where all the hitters are coming from. His spidey sense is in overdrive. He can anticipate a hit, which can cause the muscles to firm up in receiving the hits, which will protect vital body parts to avoid injuries.
When he is in the pocket, he has none of those things going for him.— penncrow19 - I would like to know how much of a% of his scrambles are designed vs o line breakdown.think about miracle@meadowlands2 if vick was a throw it away take a sack type qb that miracle never woulda happened.his #s are better in 2010 partially because he ran more causing db's and lb's to play spy on him.you gotta take the bad with the good.but overall i think his mobility is more helpful than a detriment.— Sean s.
- To those of you who thinks AR and Vick are not superbowl material and will never win superbowls, wanna wager? How can you be so sure? Was Marino superbowl caliber QB? How about Jim Kelly? On the flip side, Trent Dilfer won a superbowl, I guess he is better than Vick.— penncrow19
- penncrow is actually right i just thought about it and there are just some many variables to going to the superbowl let alone winning and to me and most people winning one as a qb doesnt make you better then the next guy. Lets ask this Do the giants beat the patriots in that first superbowl without strahan and co or without that great catch but tyree and no that wasnt a great throw by ELI he threw it up for grabs lol. Jim mcmahon won a superbowl or did the defense win it. Is he better than Jim kelly? To say Cam newton is not a superbowl QB when he broke a 30 year old record with 4100 passing yards is just straight dumb — Lambo1
- You can't say "the guy gets hurt every year" as something unique to Vick. MOST starting QBs get hurt & miss time during the year. There are exceptions - Farve & both Mannings (unfortunately)come to mind. I think Cam Newton was healthy all year too. Most teams need to be prepared to losing the starting QB for a period of time every year. You just hope it's against lesser opponents.— Mike in LA
- Gotta give Vick credit though, dude is super tough for his size. He is never afraid to take a hit, this includes the injuries here while staying in the pocket long enough to complete the pass. That is exactly what you want from your QB, if it were the opposite you would all be screaming that hes playing scared. You cant have it both ways. The problem is his frame isnt big enough to handle the abuse so thats just the way the cookie crumbles. You just hope he can make it through a season relatively unscathed and into the playoffs. He gives the Eagles the best chance to win these last 2 seasons and again this season. That being said, the other option would have been to start from scratch and rebuild which would have been the Kolb era. Not sure that would have saved any time in the rebuilding world. Only Reid might have been canned which a lot of fans want.— peteike
- I think the article made a good point that most of vicks key hits were in the pocket. But the question is how long did it take to complete the pass? And should we run the ball more with our new RB's to avoid more hits in the future— Yes_General
- Also lets not forget doug williams won one too. He really wasnt that good. Lets be fair he had a great ooffense and a defnse led by darrell green. That team was so good mark rypien won a superbowl with them a few years later!!!!!!— Lambo1
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