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Tuesday, January 13, 2009
McNabb a Hall of Famer?

Do you think Donovan McNabb will be a Hall of Fame quarterback?
Definitely.
Only if he wins a Super Bowl.
I don't know, but I would vote for him.
Absolutely not.
View results
Interesting conversation this morning on “Mike and Mike” on ESPN. Mike Greenberg was saying that Donovan McNabb is definitely a Hall of Fame quarterback right now. Mike Golic said he is close, knocking on the door, but not quite there.

Michael Barkann asked me the same question Monday night on “Daily News Live.” What I said, boiled down, is this: I think McNabb is the best quarterback in the history of the franchise but that it’s really hard to get into the Hall of Fame without winning a Super Bowl, that you really need superior stats if you are going to get in without winning and that McNabb’s aren’t at that level.

(I also said that Phil Simms, who won a Super Bowl, says he wouldn’t put himself into the Hall of Fame and that McNabb is in a similar statistical boat. I was wrong there. They played in very different philosophical systems but McNabb’s stats are much better.)

Anyway, on “Mike and Mike,” they compared his stats to those of Troy Aikman and Steve Young. There are a million stats out there, and I have picked out a handful. They reflect my personal measures of what I think is important if you are going to make a stat argument. Anyway:

Aikman…3 SB wins…5 10-win seasons…81.6 QB rating…1.17 TD/Int.

Young…1 SB win…5 10-win seasons…96.8 QB rating…2.17 TD/Int.

McNabb…0 SB wins…4 10-win seasons…85.9 QB rating…2.16 TD/Int.

When you look at it, Aikman is in because of the Super Bowls and I would vote for him every time. If you compare Young and McNabb – who always have been an interesting stylistic match as well – they are very similar players. Young completed a higher percentage of his passes. Young also had a much higher yards-per-attempt – a very instructive stat, but some of which was because he played with great receivers for longer than McNabb did.

They are very, very similar. There are differences, yes, but the biggest difference is the Super Bowl, which is what I said on DNL. You can like it or hate it but that’s just the way the system works.

It’s really a fascinating topic. McNabb is a fascinating player. Because he is the best quarterback the Eagles have ever had, and he also is a guy who was terrible in the middle of this season and played badly enough to get benched (even if Kevin Kolb against the Ravens was not a better option). I don’t think those are inconsistent positions, either. I think they reflect the facts at hand.

In the post-season, the stats have been unremarkable but McNabb has really played well, just commanding the important moments of the game. That’s kind of a nebulous concept, not all that measurable, except by the final score.

And in the end, that is how NFL quarterbacks are measured: by the final score.
Posted by Rich Hofmann @ 3:41 PM  Permalink | 113 comments
113
Comments   
Posted 06:26 PM, 01/14/2009
thetruth1960
I am amazed at how much talk about McNabb from any outside source can arouse too many people of this city who seemingly has a problem with accepting the accomplishments of a man who has endured slurs, verbal assault, and direspect from people who cannot hold his jock strap and cannot imagine the talent, personality or confidence it takes to play the QB position at the highjest level. What on earth is wrong with you people? My question to all of you haters: In your line of work are you the best: employee, leader on your job, a consistent winner in your kraft, the best and highest paid employee, and have you ever been 75% of your company's production at any time of your employment? Or is your production exaggerated because of other specialized employees and the type of offense your company runs to maximize productivity? Stop with the petty hste and envy you have against McNabb and learn how to enjoy and appreciate him while he plays for your city today because tomorrow is not promised. I personally want to see McNabb escape this horrible sentence in Philadelhia and go somewhere and get his just dues. I am embarrassed to say I live in Philadelphia, their is just too much racial and civil hatred and discord in this city, and we call ourselves the City of Brotherly Love? PLEASE!!!!
Posted 02:52 PM, 01/14/2009
Bill1966
Oh BTW, 65% of the Nation believes Warner should go to the Hall of Fame and only 35% believe Mcnabb should go. Landslide. http://espn.go.com/
Posted 02:42 PM, 01/14/2009
Bill1966
wow according to this poll only 29% of EAGLE fans think Mcnabb should make the Hall of fame.
Posted 01:41 PM, 01/14/2009
madaboutit
Fedup - They were more ready to put Reid than McNabb out of town.
Posted 01:29 PM, 01/14/2009
brinkmang
Van Brocklin was the best QB we ever had with Sony, a HOF'er, a close second. Jaws was very good and let's not forget Randal. McNabb has been here longer and has benefited from having good ownership, a good coaching staff, terrific O lines and a super D. He hasn't always had the best receivers but lets not forget the main man, Brian Westbrook, Mr. everything. 5 has been one of the best!
Posted 11:29 AM, 01/14/2009
Bill1966
Coach1456, great post!
Posted 11:23 AM, 01/14/2009
fedupphilly
Give me a break just a few months ago people were ready to put Mcnabb and Reid out of town and now the football hall of fame. The Philly fans and sportswriters need their heads examined.
Posted 09:37 AM, 01/14/2009
MB2009
HALL OF FAME?? If it has anything to do with choking in the most important games, sure he should be in. He's nothing but an "I" guy. I'm in my 5th NFC Championship game, I'm having a great year, etc. I'd hate to tell you Donovan, but there are 52 other guys on this team. Do you ever hear Tom Brady, Eli, Peyton, or Ben talk like this? Can't wait until this guy is out of town. The big choke will be on this Sunday. "I" have confidence in you Donovan.
Posted 09:37 AM, 01/14/2009
Wildcat70
Donovan McNabb is a good QB but nowhere near a Hall of Fame QB. He has performed poorly in the biggest games. Some would say he choked. Being a great QB is more than stats and even more than winning a Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Dan Marino did not. Watch the QB when the game is on the line. Watch Peyton Manning, Watch Tom Brady, they move their teams with a real sense of urgency. McNabb in crunch time is nonchalant and acts like there is 10 minutes left to play. Sure he has the lowest interception % in history but that is because he is so inaccurate he throws the ball where no one can catch it and he still cannot read defenses.
Posted 09:28 AM, 01/14/2009
brian2706
If he wins a SB or has 2 more good years, he's in.
Posted 09:10 AM, 01/14/2009
billyrageguy
No way. He quit on the last drive of the SuperBowl.
Posted 07:35 AM, 01/14/2009
madaboutit
I would say that when his career is over, he'd be in. Just the fact that the receiving corps he worked with is basically garbage (except T.O.). You give him a Rice, Irvin, Harrison, or the receivers the Oilers had in 1991. We'd have gotten at least 2 SB's already! If he had the weapons those other QB's who were mentioned had, oh yes! His career is not over yet, but hopefully we'll win this SB and everyone would surely vote for him for the simple fact that his receiving corps is basically non-existent. Put Ocho-Cinco in with Jackson and Curtis and get the TE from KC to replace that bum LJ Smith, along with a REAL FB and you have a HOF QB for sure. McNabb is STILL one of the best QB's in the NFL, and we're lucky to have him in this town. This crazy Season the Eagles have had should get him votes right now. Just a few weeks ago, we all sounded like Jim Mora. (Playoffs? You kiddin me! Playoffs???)And look where we are now!
Posted 05:48 AM, 01/14/2009
allrightknight
Nice Buttheads! Question whether McNabb is a Hall of Famer right before an NFC Championship game. Good job! Put a little more pressure on him, you did the same thing with Howard before the World Series implying he needed to be Mr October for them to win the series. Are you buttheads jealous of major sports stars in Philly?
Comment removed.
Posted 01:05 AM, 01/14/2009
jonpoetical
if you go to the hof website & compare Donnie with all of the qb's of the modern era that's in the hof. Then it's a no brainer. if you compare Donnie to the quarterbacks that played during his career. Then it's a no brainer. You can't name more than 3 qb's (Brady, P. Manning, Warner) that has accomplished more than Mcnabb during the same ten year stretch that he has played. It's a no brainer. For those Screaming about Randall being better than Donnie...it's not even close.Donnie is the greatest Eagle QB ever! And this is coming from the BIGGEST Cunningham Fan ever!
Posted 12:28 AM, 01/14/2009
JimG
Rich, you missed the whole point of the discussion on Mike and Mike. I watched it all on ESPN2 and actually helped provoke the discussion because I was the one who emailed in the comparison of stats between McNabb and Aikman. Not sure if someone else emailed in the Young stuff or they just pulled that themselves. In the first part of the show, they were talking about whether McNabb gets into the Hall of Fame if the Eagles win the Superbowl. Golic said that even with post-season performance there has to be some sort of separate statistical analysis that is unrelated to post-season performance and he doesn't know if McNabb has the pure stats for that part of the equation. That's why I emailed in the McNabb-Aikman stats because the discussion was about pure stats and not post-season performance and McNabb's raw stats are clearly better than Aikman's raw stats. As far as Young, Greenberg's point was that McNabb is only 32 and if he has 2-3 more solid seasons, then he's going to pass Young in most career stat categories. So you totally missed the point, the whole discussion on the show was based on whether McNabb has the pure stats to back up a Hall of Fame vote...irrespective of post-season performance.
Posted 12:26 AM, 01/14/2009
OneChampionshipPLEASE
Win a Super Bowl.. makes the conversation a lot easier in McNabb's favor
Posted 11:49 PM, 01/13/2009
jayfril
"McNabb's stats look good only because he played with Eagles. How would he look if he has been playing with Detroit Lions all that years." — A. Because he played with the EAGLES!? Are you serious with that statment? Charles Johnson + Torrence Small + Todd Pinkston + James Thrash + Freddie Mitchell + Greg Lewis + Donte Stallworth + Hank Basket + Reggie Brown + Kevin Curtis = 0 Pro Bowls. B. No one can succeed in Detroit. Not Donovan, not Peyton, not Brady, not Montana.
Posted 10:53 PM, 01/13/2009
FreeFalGuy
McNabb has done it with inferior talent. Number 5 has not had the weapons at wide receiver the other Hall Of Fame QB's had. The Eagles Front Office insistence on mediocre wide receivers have wasted McNabb best years. Besides Westbrook, McNabb had little help on offense.
Posted 10:26 PM, 01/13/2009
duces
If you look at the bigger picture: The Eagles haven't won anything yet.
Posted 10:12 PM, 01/13/2009
HighIQ
Jimmy Rollins said it best of Philadelphia fans by calling them "Front Runners". What a group of blowhard, know-nothings Philly is filled with!!! Now we are talking about McNabb going to the Hall of Fame after most people wanting him released and the coach fired about a month ago.
Posted 09:53 PM, 01/13/2009
crustymcd
A HOF QB would have taken the Iggles down the field and won that SuperBowl in Jacksonville. If he win wins a SB this year with the Iggs that makes up for it and he's in the HOF
Posted 09:37 PM, 01/13/2009
Eagles Phan in LI
coach1456, get a clue
Posted 08:39 PM, 01/13/2009
JACK V
mcnabb is very good when healthy. this is the first year he's played all year in the last four. his first five years in the league he was the ultimate weapon according to sports writers and those who watched him win games with his legs. HOF, not yet. if he wins a couple of championships, yes.
Posted 08:14 PM, 01/13/2009
DE_Gene
lakebill: Warner has only WON 1 superbowl
Posted 08:07 PM, 01/13/2009
roque32
If he doesn't win the Superbowl, he'll at least get a nomination to get into the Hall of Fame. I'm basing that on Ron Jaworski. I believe he got nominated but didn't get inducted into the Hall of Fame. If he wins a Superbowl and doesn't do something really stupid after winning the Superbowl, he's in. Hopefully, he won't flake out like Darren Daulton did...
Posted 07:57 PM, 01/13/2009
FKD215
Maybe we ought to let the guy finish his career before we decide?
Posted 07:56 PM, 01/13/2009
sig12
I just don't see how McNabb can be compared with class QBs like Montana, Elway and Marino, etc. McNabb's stats look good only because he played with Eagles. How would he look if he has been playing with Detroit Lions all that years. He could be perfect 0-16 this year if he played with the Lions. He is over-over-over rated.
Posted 07:35 PM, 01/13/2009
blood_green
Also, I think Rich might be bi-polar for deciding to write this article, since he was sending McNabb out of town a month ago.
Posted 07:31 PM, 01/13/2009
blood_green
With a ring McNabb this year, he gets in. The drama of this season is something for the ages. Otherwise he needs to continue to play at this level for 5 more years to get in. It seems to be likely that he will, with DeSean continuing to progress into a possible All-Pro over the next few years, and with the O-line being retooled with N.Cole, Herremans & Andrews (should he come back to form).
Posted 07:31 PM, 01/13/2009
blood_green
With a ring McNabb this year, he gets in. The drama of this season is something for the ages. Otherwise he needs to continue to play at this level for 5 more years to get in. It seems to be likely that he will, with DeSean continuing to progress into a possible All-Pro over the next few years, and with the O-line being retooled with N.Cole, Herremans & Andrews (should he come back to form).
Posted 07:10 PM, 01/13/2009
EL Zorro
Also Drew77, look at this brother Eli this year, after winning last year. It takes more than the QB to win a SB.
Posted 06:55 PM, 01/13/2009
jayfril
i don't know why people keep saying "only if he wins a superbowl, he'll get in". ever hear of jim kelly. no superbowl wins for that guy and donovan is gonna shatter his records. howabout brad johnson or trent dilfer. both those guys won superbowls but no way in hell would you vote them in the hall. i thought colin cowherd said it best on his radio show. its called the hall of "FAME". not the hall of "STASTICS". donovan is and has been the face of the NFL for the past 10 years. for all he's done around the community, the league, the performances he's given us during the years, how do you deny the guy???
Posted 06:48 PM, 01/13/2009
EL Zorro
So Drew77, is Payton Manning a HOF in your opinion? Before he won the Super Bowl with an All Pro corp of receivers he choked during the playoffs. And this year it was one and done for him also. At least Donovan has a sub 500 record. According to your criteria, he is not a Hall of Famer either. What's his record, 3 and 6? Want to rethink your logic?
Posted 06:45 PM, 01/13/2009
fiddler
LAKEBILL WARNER ONLY HAS 1 SB
Posted 06:42 PM, 01/13/2009
losteagle
He would have to do more then just win the big game! he would have to string about 6 years of great stats and wins! In a way its not his fault as Moron reid has not given him any help on the ofside except for Westbrook! He is not a bad guy! But he is no superstar either!
Posted 06:26 PM, 01/13/2009
Bake McBride
If McNabb makes a play in the SB this year like the one he made to FredEx in Dallas a few years ago, he'll be in. The NFL is all about the big play, baby.
Posted 06:21 PM, 01/13/2009
nyphilsphan
After the Birds spank the Cardinals on Sunday, we need to work a trade for Anquon Boldin for next season. Too bad Kolb's value has never been lower. Arizona will be in the market for a QB.
Posted 05:57 PM, 01/13/2009
philly10
McNabb did not even make the Pro Bowl the last few years...how can he be an all time great Hall of Famer....when he is not even the best QB playing now?
Comment removed.
Posted 05:52 PM, 01/13/2009
matt g
I think it all comes down to if he gets the win in the Super Bowl. He is the best QB to have played with fewest all pro WRs, just 1 season, and that has to be considered. That said, his play this year in the playoffs has been HOF worthy, against good defenses he did what he had to do with the game on the line, and that's what counts. If he does that 2 more times he'll get his SB ring and the HOF stamp.
Posted 05:45 PM, 01/13/2009
philly10
STUPID ARTICLE...If the Eagles didn't get very lucky and they missed the playoffs this year....McNabb would have been run out of Philly. Now the writers are putting him in the Hall of Fame....BALONEY!
Posted 05:45 PM, 01/13/2009
jayheezy
Coach1456, 1st, Rush Limbaugh doesn't know a thing about football. 2nd, if McNabb's stats are inflated, then so are Steve Young's, Joe Montana's and Brett Favre's because they played in the same system. Add Peyton Manning and Dan Marino to that list because they also have been in a pass-first offense. 3rd, of all the QB's I mentioned, each one had at least one Pro-Bowl, if not HOF receiver. Last, if McNabb gets in the SB and wins, he will have been about as successful as Brett Favre. One last thought, during the Eagles' resurgence, the players commented on the solid leadership of BOTH B-Dawk and McNabb.
Posted 05:44 PM, 01/13/2009
peteike
If he wins bowl this yr, he leapfrogs Favre in my opinion. 2 sb and 1 loss in each. Then McNabb has more champ gms and way less INT's. But this is the almighty Brett Favre were talking about here, nobody s better than him, untouchable, ha
Posted 05:39 PM, 01/13/2009
Drew777
McNabb is not a HOF. His performance in the Superbowl against the Pats sealed that. HOF don't hyperventilate in championship games. Even if he finds a way to beat Pittsburgh or Baltimore I wouldn't put him in. Too many failures in NFC Championship games. I'll agree he hasn't had much to work with and some of it is Reid's play calling. Not getting the plays in on time. Steve Young was a phenomenal QB, more accurate than McNabb. Simply put I think Young beats the Pats and we are sitting here with a ring going for a second championship.
Posted 05:39 PM, 01/13/2009
Leron
Definite hall of famer, especially when you throw in his rushing stats for earlier year.
Posted 05:37 PM, 01/13/2009
Flyguy12
Check out McNabb's stats the one year he had a bonified WR (T.O). He has no support and still puts up good stats.
Posted 05:33 PM, 01/13/2009
philly10
P-L-E-A-S-E ...STOP THIS BALONEY. Mcnabb is not even a Pro Bowl QB...let alone a Hall of Famer. Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw,Elway are Hall of Famers and won multiple superbowls...McNabb is not even close to them.
Posted 05:28 PM, 01/13/2009
mjb
Right or wrong, the events of the next few weeks will cement McNabb's legacy. If the Birds somehow win the Super Bowl, he will go down as probably the third best QB of the era, with a ridiculously good record (throwing out the injured middle years). If the Birds lose, and he performs poorly or even averagely, he will remain on the bubble, especially in our fair city. A complete Elway situation; one win will change everything. Here's hoping...
Posted 05:21 PM, 01/13/2009
Phrossty
I must have missed something. Did McNabb suffer a career ending injury last Sunday or in practice? Did he hold a press conference to announce his retirement rather than play for a chance at another Super Bowl appearance? If not, then - as mentioned by prior posters - this question is outrageously premature. Isn't there a big game this Sunday? GO EAGLES. Beat the Cardinals. I can remember when the St. Louis Cardinals always gave the Eagles a tough game. It still holds true. The team, coaches, fans and press need to stay focused on the Cardinals. Overlooking them (by presuming there are more interesting things to write about than the match ups) is a mistake! "Just whupp the man in front of ya!" - Axeman.
Posted 05:01 PM, 01/13/2009
theanswer80
he wins a s.b, he's in as simple as that dopes.
Posted 05:01 PM, 01/13/2009
eaglephanatic
Let's look at some league AP MVP QBs since 1984: Dan Marino (1), John Elway (1), Boomer Esiason (1), Joe Montana (2), Steve Young (2), Brett Favre (3), Kurt Warner (2), Rich Gannon (1), Peyton Manning (3), Tom Brady (1). Randall Cunningham got the award in 1990 by the Pro Football Writers and in 1998 by the Players Association. McNabb has never gotten the award from anyone. Aikman must have gotten in for his 3 SBs and SB MVP. Brady has 2 SB MVPs. There is a better chance, at this point, for Cunningham to get in than McNabb, and that is not likely. McNabb can seal his fate if he gets two SBs with at least one SB MVP, or a SB and an AP MVP. Otherwise, there will be a debate.
Posted 04:59 PM, 01/13/2009
philphan
If Jim Kelly is a HOF QB then McNabb is a HOF QB. For those of you who think Donovan is the cause for not winning a SB then you have no idea about the sport of football.
Posted 04:56 PM, 01/13/2009
Bobby G
The jury is still out on McNabb's career. Elway, for example, reached his pinnacle after 35 with 2 SB wins. What happens between now and about 2013 will resolve this debate, which can go either way. This whole argument is premature.
Posted 04:56 PM, 01/13/2009
Bobby G
The jury is still out on McNabb's career. Elway, for example, reached his pinnacle after 35 with 2 SB wins. What happens between now and about 2013 will resolve this debate, which can go either way. This whole argument is premature.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:49 PM, 01/13/2009
PhillyFanSince86
Great story Rich. I think that McNabb is awfully close but that 0 Super Bowl win stat really hurts him. If you consider the fact that he's had no receivers to throw to pretty much his entire career with the exception of 1 or 2 years, you get a feeling for how great a player he is. Unfortunately, when a voter looks at it, they won't be able to get past the 0 super bowl stat. So until he wins a super bowl, I don't think he'll make it. You also have to consider that this is the age of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning so that will hurt him also. If he wins a Super Bowl, it's a different story. Any notion that the defense has helped him is ridiculous. Defense has been good but it doesn't add or take away from his performance. There's also the notion in Philly that he's not good in the playoffs but the reality is that he's been spectacular. Sure, he's lost 3 NFC Championship games, twice to better teams. Overall, he's been good in the playoffs and he's not the sole reason for their losses in the playoffs. If he gets time to throw, he's usually money. Nice topic.
Posted 04:35 PM, 01/13/2009
Philly Dom
I think if McNabb plays 5-7 more years and continues to win games and put up similar stats he can get in without winning a superbowl... a Superbowl win and he's in!
Posted 04:35 PM, 01/13/2009
EL Zorro
Since when winning a championship in any sport is a prerequisite to be in the Hall of Fame or to be a good player for that matter? If that’s the case, the Luis Polonia should be in Baseball HOF because he has like 5 WS rings. Any player, and in this case a QB, can have a great game (ro series) and win a championship. HOF careers are built through the years. McNabb has the numbers to be there, in my opinion. But because of his detractors he may need to win a SB or two to be inducted. It is a shame because he has better numbers than Aikman and similar numbers than Steve Young, in spite of not having future HOFs or good offensive players (besides BrianW and TO for one year) playing along side him like these two.
Posted 04:32 PM, 01/13/2009
eeglenutt
Great post, Coach1456. Indeed, who cares about the HOF -- just win!
Posted 04:27 PM, 01/13/2009
momeara001
In his prime, McNabb was feared by his peers. Right now, he is not feared--there is little big play ability left. He never perfected passing above the shins or out in front of a running receiver. I'd say Randall Cunningham was more dangerous for a longer stretch. In the past 10 years, only McNabb, P. Manning, and Brady could be considered. Favre is wayyy overrated. Favre only dangerous for his first 7 seasons, mostly at the expense of awful Bears teams (I live in Chicago, so I relish when the Eagles tromp the Bears and Packers).
Posted 04:25 PM, 01/13/2009
joeibt
As we know, the press has some say in these things, and this article is a pperfect example of the animous nature of that relationship with McNabb. This reporter choses only to include those stats that McNabb does not surpass the others as an example of why he may not merit selection. It takes the fans in this section to point out that he did all of this without benefit of a game-breaking receiver, and in fact had to do it in many years without even good ones. Philly reporters are the worst!
Posted 04:20 PM, 01/13/2009
CapitanesFua
I think is way too premature to talk about HOF. Mr. Hoffman, I think you have other/better stuff to write about.
Posted 04:06 PM, 01/13/2009
PortCity
Kurt Warner has benefited by having excellent skill players around him at St. Louis and Arizona. That is why he has put up such great numbers and won two super bowls. He makes the HOF as a result. In regard to McNabb, if he wins a super bowl, he makes the HOF. Otherwise, he needs to put up some good numbers for another 3-4 years to get in.
Posted 04:01 PM, 01/13/2009
Rob
Shouldn't we wait until he retires to have this discussion? There are still 2 games to be played this season.
Comment removed.
Posted 03:53 PM, 01/13/2009
bleed green forever
lonewolf: as of right now mcnabb has not played as long as randall and all his numbers are better... so can you please tell me where that logic comes from? Mcnabb is with out a doubt a hall of famer and anyone that understands football knows that... stop with the super bowl talk it takes a team to win.. the hall of fame is an individual achievement and he deserves it.
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Posted 03:18 PM, 01/13/2009
phillychief
Aikman…5 10-win seasons…81.6 QB rating…1.17 TD/Int…Hall of Fame Young…5 10-win seasons…96.8 QB rating…2.17 TD/Int…Hall of Fame McNabb…4 10-win seasons…85.9 QB rating…2.16 TD/Int….Active Jurgensen…1 10-win season, 82.6 QB rating…1.35 TD/Int….Hall of Fame Brodie…1 10-win season…72.3 QB rating…0.96 TD/Int…Not in Hall of Fame Stabler…5 10-win seasons…75.3 QB rating…0.88 TD/Int…Not in Hall of Fame Dawson…3 10-win seasons…82.6 QB rating…1.31 TD/Int…Hall of Fame McNair…4 10-win seasons…82.8 rQB rating…1.47 TD/Int…Recently Retired Favre...9 10-win seasons…85.4 QB rating…1.50 TD/Int…Active? Kelly…6 10-win seasons…84.4 QB rating…1.36 TD/Int…Hall of Fame
Comment removed.
Posted 02:18 PM, 01/13/2009
sharksnj
Aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves? Shouldn't the HoF debate be held off until his whole body of work is complete? Elway didn't win a SB until his last two years in the league. Let's just focus on the Cardinals.
Posted 02:02 PM, 01/13/2009
Slovs
Quarterbacks do not make the Hall of Fame because they played on a team with a great defense. Well, maybe Terry Bradshaw, who threw 212 TDs and 210 interceptions with a 51.9 completion percentage. HOFamer QBs who did not win Super Bowls: Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts and Warren Moon. Non-HOFamers who won Super Bowls: Trent Dilfer, Jim Plunkett, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and the three Redskins -- Doug Williams, Joe Theisman and Mark Rypien. I think a Super Bowl win will ice it for McNabb, but his regular-season stats make a case for his induction. Randall Cunningham actually had better regular-season stats than Aikman. He led the Vikings to a 15-1 record and set the NFL record for points at the time. His teams won at least 10 games five times. Cunningham has 207 TDs vs. 134 INTs; Aikman has 165 TDs vs. 141 INTs in 31 more games (McNabb has 194-90). Plus, Cunningham rushed for 4,928 yards, including 942 one year, and 35 TDs and a 6.4 average, which is the NFL record (more than 750 attempts to qualify). Aikman had 1,016 yards, a 3.1 average and 9 TDs (McNabb has 3,109, 26 TDs and a 5.8 average). Let's not forget Randall's 90-yard punt, too. Mike Quick should also be in the Hall of Fame. Again, his regular-season stats are much better than Lynn Swann.
Posted 02:01 PM, 01/13/2009
Jim C.
"Posted by Barn 42 01:53 PM, 01/13/2009 Rich, You little Dweeb, this could very well be your worst work ever! Seriously, how do you..." Translation: "I hate myself and spew on commwent boards all day."
Posted 02:00 PM, 01/13/2009
Dierte
This is a little premature, he's only 32...a long time away from retirement, let's focus at what is directly in front of us, Arizona.
Posted 01:59 PM, 01/13/2009
upstate
You put Aikman w/this eagle team for the past ten years I don't think he smells the HOF. How many offensive HOF'ers did he play with? How many will McNabb have played with? Even Aikman's second and third receivers throughout his career were pretty good. He may be borderline right now but barring a major injury, I think he makes it.
Comment removed.
Posted 01:50 PM, 01/13/2009
rippman89
If they win a SB he will get in. I can only imagine the kind of scene it would be in Canton OH the day he gets in. Things would have come full circle with a few thousand Eagles fans cheering there....as apposed to 30 booing morons on draft day.
Posted 01:48 PM, 01/13/2009
Master Dreamz
People really need to stop and think about Donovan's career. I had a friend come up to me the other day and say that he cant remember the Eagles doing anything in a half during the 2 minute drill -- then this week, up pops the stat that they are the 2nd best team in the league in that category. My personal opinion, in the 1st 7 years of his career, there wasnt a QB that I would have taken over him. The last couple of years, yeah, his durability has slipped; but, his level of play has not. He is still a top 5 QB in this league. I guess the question that needs to be asked is who would you take over him? What QB would make you feel better about your chances of winning here, with this group around him? Donovan has done more with less than any other "great" QB, with the exception of Marino, that I can think of.
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Posted 01:39 PM, 01/13/2009
Breath EZ
Hope people are factoring in that McNabb only had 1 true receiver his whole career....
Posted 01:38 PM, 01/13/2009
na202
You guys in the Philly sports media are killing me. A month ago he was a washed up bozo who didn't know the game rules and you were doing your best to boot him out of town, and now he's worthy of the Hall of Fame?!?! Is there ever going to be a balanced, normal view of anything in this town? The truth is, McNabb is a valuable veteran NFL leader who will have many takers if the Eagles do not extend him, but he's not a Hall of Fame player. He's no Steve Young or Troy Aikman, comparable stats or not. Only really special players get in to the HOF, and it's an intangible, not stats that get people there. When someone mentions a player and your first reaction is, Oh yeah, he's a Hall of Famer, then he's it. If we even have to have this ridiculous debate, then he's probably a stretch at best, even with a ring. Not to mention that this is the most inappropriate time ever to be talking about this, like in the middle of the playoffs. Let him prepare for what he needs to do, and leave him be.
Posted 01:38 PM, 01/13/2009
lehphillyfan
He is very, very good, but not great (at least not yet). He still has time to become the latter.
Posted 01:30 PM, 01/13/2009
Mark1npt
Why are we having this discussion now? How about a year after he retires? How about if he wins a couple of SBs or gets a few MVP awards first? He'll have to prove he can lead and win Championships first. Montana, Yound, Aikman, even Simms all did that. McNabb really hasn't yet. Until the opposition gets that very uneasy feeling in the pit of their stomachs while McNabb marches the team down the field to the inevitable score that wins the big one, he's not there yet. He hasn't "done it" yet. Save this discussion for the appropriate time 5 years from now fellas. GATM
Posted 01:30 PM, 01/13/2009
rrubinprodigy
So because he does not have ring, he should not be in the hall of fame. You losers can kiss me a** with that lame argument. Because I am not the number one salesperson in America, I don't deserve to be in best salespeople ever. I don't even care if he is in the Hall of Fame, DonMacc has givwen me one of the best moments in my life.
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Posted 01:27 PM, 01/13/2009
osi is hurt boohoo
5 NFC championship games??? 1 super bowl apperance... he better be in!
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Posted 01:19 PM, 01/13/2009
Bulldog02
If he wins a Super Bowl he is in.
Posted 01:19 PM, 01/13/2009
Bulldog02
If he wins a Super Bowl he is in.
Posted 01:18 PM, 01/13/2009
rrubinprodigy
Troy aikman had one of the best WRs to ever play the game (Irvin) and one the best running backs to ever play the game (Emmitt Smith). All he had to do was enjoy the ride. He only threw for more than 20 TDs once in his career in 1992. Winning 3 superbowls does not cut it. Are you gonna tell me Aikman deserves to be there more than Dan Marino because he has more rings. I thought so. Steve Young had Jerry Rice (13x pro bowler and 12x all-pro selection with numerous NFL records.) Peyton Manning has Marvin Harrison (potential hall of famer, 8x pro-bowl and 8x all pro selection), Reggie Wayne (3x probowler and 1 all pro selection) and Edgerin James for a few seasons (4x all probowl, 7th all time on career rushing and 4x all pro and arguably a potential hall of famer.) Who on McNabb's offense is a potential Hall of Famer for the past 10 years? Scrubbs like Pinkston, Greg Lewis, Reggie Brown. The one year he had T.O. he had 3,877 yards passing, 31td and 8 int (3.875 td/int ratio). Give him Randy Moss or Plaxico Burress for 3 years and see if he does not prove he is Hall of Fame worthy and does not get you at least 2 rings. He is 9 - 5 in playoffs. Peyton Manning is 3 - 8 excluding Superbowl record and in mannings superbowl, he was horrible. Joseph Addai and Rhodes should have gotten the MVP selection and not Peyton (obviously they did it because of money.)
Posted 01:11 PM, 01/13/2009
cujat13
Aikman and Young both had HOF Wide Recievers and McNabb has for the most part of his career had guys that were barely good enough to be in the NFL.
Posted 01:08 PM, 01/13/2009
cujat13
He may not have the superbowl ring YET....but 5 NFC Championships in 10yrs is pretty impressive!
Posted 01:05 PM, 01/13/2009
Dierte
Pat c....that is probably why you work at Burger King, instead of being on the Board of Selectors. By the way, can I get a cheeseburger?
Posted 01:05 PM, 01/13/2009
billt
194 TD's and only 90 INT's...and almost 30,000 yards at age 32? And without much surronding talent....terrific numbers by themselves. Add in the 9 play-off wins (do any non H o F'ers have that many?)and he's borderline already, a guaranteed lock if he wins one Super-Bowl, and a likely entrant with a few more good years even without a title. The Jim Kelly comparison was a valid one.
Posted 12:58 PM, 01/13/2009
billinvirginia
He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. 5 NFC Championships out of 8 years. Winning the Super Bowl is a team endeavor, McNabb more than did his part with his less than average receivers. Give McNabb an Irvin/Novacek combo, or Rice/Taylor combo and he wins 4 Super Bowls
Posted 12:44 PM, 01/13/2009
Pat c
Everyone is talking about what a great game he had sunday. And it even lead 1 writer to ask if he should now be in the hall of fame. Did I see a game sunday where until the last few minutes of the 1st half, the team had 34 TOTAL, yes, TOTAL yards. Does a hall of fame quarterback get his team 34 yards? Does a hall of fame quarterback get his team to score 10 points against the Bengals? Does a hall of fame quarterback see his team fail over and over again to get a 3rd or fourth and short? Please tell me what he has done to merit hall of fame election. Does he have numbers, sure, if you want to put him in for his numbers, go ahead. What has he won? He disappears in the big game. When he should put the team on his back and carry them to a win, he is willowing under the pressure. So, if I had a hall of fame vote, I would skip right over his name on the ballot. Get a ring, and all of that changes. But I still believe if he gets a ring, he will have a minor part in it, he wont be the hero who rose to the occasion.
Posted 12:37 PM, 01/13/2009
odog
He has to bring home the hardware at least once. Think of all the criticism Peyton Manning used to get until he finally won a Super Bowl. Just winning one time & the knocks went away. All those in the National Media who love to lecture the Philly fan base about how we don't appreciate Donovan fail to understand this point or choose to ignore it. Getting to 5 NFC Championship games while a commendable achievement is highly frustrating to an Eagles fan. This is the other thing the media & former players fail to grasp. Until you finally get a championship, getting that close & failing to close the deal is a big tease. Getting to the Super Bowl & losing isn't better for an Eagles fan like me. It just takes my suffering to the next ring of hell. I’ve had to suffer through 5 Cowgirl championships, 3 Redskin championships, & now the worst of all for me living in NJ, 3 Giant championships. All I need is one. I’m not greedy. Just one, that’s all I need.
Posted 12:37 PM, 01/13/2009
Skena
He needs to keep his food down in the huddle. IF/When he screws up this latest playoff run he should not be admitted. The road to a football championship will never be easier!!If he screws this up he is done!
Posted 12:36 PM, 01/13/2009
Statman
lakebill: Jim Kelly made the Hall of Fame in 2002
Posted 12:36 PM, 01/13/2009
coach1456
He doesn't need to win a Super Bowl to be a Hall of Fame QB. Rush Limbaugh had inside info that the NFL was 'desirous of having black QB's do well' and Warren Moon set the litmus test for that two years later. Moon never won anything, had as many losses as wins but got in on passing yards alone. Mcnabbs stats are inflated because the style of West Coast offence is high percentage, low risk. Passes dumped off to Westbrook who runs for 75 yards goes in the stats as passing yards. Completion ratios are high because of high number of short tosses. Interceptions are low because few passes are downfield. The was one talk of the NFL using a new formula to account for the skewed stats created by ALL west coast QB's who don't face the risk other QB' do but it was dropped after years of debate. Mcnabb is a good player, poor leader who has benifited greatly by his stay with the Eagles. Who really cares if he gets in? All Eagles fans want is a Super Bowl win.
Posted 12:32 PM, 01/13/2009
McNabbHOF
McNabb has the stats. He, as of right now, is in the top 35 all time in the 4 major statistical categories for Quarterbacks (attempts, completions, touchdowns, interceptions). If he hadn't been hurt so much, he'd already be in the top 25. Give him six more complete years (playing up to the same age Elway was when he retired), and he'll be in the top 10 in all major categories (top-5 in yards). He's the least intercepted QB per pass attempt in the history of the NFL. McNabb has the winning percentage. If the Eagles go 10-6 for the next six years (and give Brady and Peyton the same number of wins), McNabb will have more regular season wins (143) than every quarterback that ever lived, except for Manning, Favre, Elway, and Marino. McNabb has the postseason record. If we go to the Super Bowl and WIN, McNabb will be 11-5 in the postseason in his first 10 seasons. Elway, after season 10, was 6-6 as a starter in the postseason. McNabb has just as many Conference Championship Game appearences as Elway up to this point in their careers (5), and even though Elway made it to the Super Bowl on three occasions during this time span, compared to one for McNabb (so far), he played terribly in at least two of the three Super Bowls and did not come out with a Lombardi trophy. Every HOF QB of the modern era has played at least several years with at least one reciever who was at best a Hall of Famer himself and at worst a consistent 1,000 yard receiver. McNabb has had TO for one season and Kevin Curtis in another season. Thats' it! Brady is in a similar category, but now has Wes Welker and Randy Moss for at least a couple more seasons. Donovan McNabb is easily the third best QB of his generation, with Brady and Manning ahead of him and Kurt Warner right behind him. Give him 4-5 more complete seasons and a Super Bowl win, and he's a lock.
Posted 12:31 PM, 01/13/2009
doorspj24
McNabb is also 9-5 in the playoffs. If he goes to 11-5 with a Super Bowl he's in the HOF easily. Manning is 7-8 in the playoffs. (3-8 if you take out the super bowl year)
Posted 12:29 PM, 01/13/2009
lakebill
Brady and Manning are destined for the Hall. Warner has a shot of winning his third super bowl which would put him in the Hall. I don't see the third or fourth best quarterback of the era getting in the Hall without any Super Bowls. Just ask Jim Kelly.
Posted 12:18 PM, 01/13/2009
Statman
At this point in his career, having not won a Super Bowl ("yet," I say hopefully), perhaps McNabb's closest comparison to a Hall-of-Fame QB is Jim Kelly. Kelly's career stats: 0 SB wins, 6 10-win seasons, 84.4 QB rating, 1.35 TD/INT ratio. Kelly got in not purely on winning (since the Bills never won a Super Bowl) and not purely on stats, but somewhere in-between: he was a very good QB who won a bunch of important games, just not the Super Bowl. The argument for McNabb would be similar at this point. I happen to think that while McNabb is 1-4 in conference championship games and Super Bowls, his 9-5 overall playoff record counts for something (it's better than Favre, Marino, and Peyton Manning, for example).
Posted 12:17 PM, 01/13/2009
DCExpat
I think he'd stack up pretty well--- Besides Manning (the good one) and Brady, who has had the sustained success of McNabb?
Posted 12:16 PM, 01/13/2009
albanykey
He wins a super bowl, then he is in, no doubt.
Posted 12:00 PM, 01/13/2009
DCExpat
Well, how does he measure against his peer class? You are looking at him v. HoF quarterbacks, which is valid. But how does he stack v. other quarterbacks in the league active during his career timeframe?
Posted 11:58 AM, 01/13/2009
Dierte
Look at the WRs/supporting cast each QB had...enough said
Posted 11:55 AM, 01/13/2009
Jim C.
It's true the defense has been huge, clearly, but I think you also have to ackowledge they way the Eagles have been built. They do not spend money on star receivers (or often even on mediocre ones!), and they have never had a workhorse back. That's really huge. Plus, there has neber been a QB in the history of the NFL that was not judged largely by their won-loss record, and McNabb should not be the first. We saw Mac with T. Owens--imagine ten years with Rice! Or Irvin AND Emmett!
Posted 11:51 AM, 01/13/2009
Bobphxville
I think if he wins one Super Bowl he is in. He's had relatively little support his whole career, and yet all he does is win...
Posted 11:48 AM, 01/13/2009
Jim C.
After watching E. manning with no real go-to guy, my respect for McNabb has gone up even further. How mabny HofFers had a workhorse RB (Thurman, Emmitt) and/or a Hof receiver (Rice, A. Reed, Irvin)? If they were voting today, I think McNabb misses, if he continues to play where he is in the Pro Bowl and the NFC Championship every other year, for 4-5 more years, he gets to maybe 50/50 to get in. I think if he wins a SB, he is probably in. Class act, too.
Posted 11:41 AM, 01/13/2009
eaglephanatic
McNabb has benefitted by the defense for years -- and especially this year. He may have the best stats for an Eagles QB, but that is not saying much. Playoff perfomance is factored as much as seasonal performance. Overall, I can't see it at this point, but there are zealots out there that will insist on it, even in the media, despite anything else.
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