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Friday, July 3, 2009
No love for Andy from ESPN rankings

Earlier this week, we wrote about ESPN's 'Ultimate Standings' which had the Eagles as 44th overall and 15th in the NFL.

As I mentioned, the rankings were based on eight different categories.

When I first took a look, the one that stood out to me for the Eagles was 'Stadium Experience' where they ranked 74th overall and 15th in the NFL. I argued that the ranking was too low, given the stadium experiences that ranked ahead of the Linc -- Memphis Grizzlies, Charlotte Bobcats, Washington Nationals, etc.

I was on with WIP's Morning Show today to talk about the rankings, and specifically the stadium experiences of the four teams in Philadelphia.

But when I looked at the rankings again, another category stood out to me: Coaching.

The category was defined as "strength of on-field leadership."

Guess where Andy Reid came in.

Fourteenth.

Fourteenth!

According to the rankings, 13 coaches in the NFL exhibit better on-field leadership than Reid, which I think even his harshest critics would find ridiculous (Angelo didn't find it so ridiculous).

The teams/coaches ahead of Reid, in order: Patriots (Bill Belichick), Titans (Jeff Fisher), Steelers (Mike Tomlin), Cardinals (Ken Whisenhunt), 49ers (Mike Singletary), Falcons (Mike Smith), Giants (Tom Coughlin), Ravens (John Harbaugh), Dolphins (Tony Sparano), Saints (Sean Payton), Jaguars (Jack Del Rio), Jets (Rex Ryan), Panthers (John Fox).

Wow.

Is there a franchise in the NFL that would want Del Rio over Reid if given the option?

Singletary hasn't coached a full season. Ryan hasn't coached a single game. The ones that have won a Super Bowl as a head coach are Belichick, Tomlin and Coughlin.

I don't get it.

Thoughts?

Posted by Sheil Kapadia @ 8:26 AM  Permalink | 77 comments
77
Comments   
Posted 07:21 AM, 07/11/2009
phillyboy88
Andy may have his problems as a coach (as if they all don't), but to rank him on ANY list behind coaches who have never won a game in the NFL is ridiculous! Coaches who just had the "interim" tagged removed from their title. Coaches who have done well in the league (Del Rio) but can't hold a candle to Reid's record. Or coaches who have been "one season wonders", it's just not credible. If this were my list, Reid would be no lower than fifth. And that would only be because of the Super Bowl winning coaches that could go ahead of him. Is Tomlin really a better coach than AR? Is Coughlin? What really cracks me up are all the posters who KNOW why the Eagles haven't won a Super Bowl. Of course, it's because of Andy! Please...
Posted 06:45 PM, 07/09/2009
oldBird
Let's give Bellichik Lombardi, Tomlin ( 2 year coach) Joe Banner, Jeff and my money says they do not last 4 years let alone 10.....Jeff Fisher is a good coach...but we picked back stabber Rich Kotite and not that is matters Fisher smart enough to pick good GM and small market lower stress environment
Posted 11:03 PM, 07/07/2009
eagle_zee
to billro 3: For my first official commentary on philly.com, let me say your analysis of Reid's strength as a coach couldn't be more precise. It is something that I think a lot of fans are frustrated about. However it is a proven fact that he wins a lot of games and has the team in position to win so he deserves more credit as a coach than 13th but he still sits behind proven SB winners.
Posted 04:33 PM, 07/06/2009
daveH
if you were at a Denny's you'd better order BEFORE FAT ANDY DID
Posted 11:01 AM, 07/06/2009
PHILLYMARK
Please tell me which Philly fans are going to listen to anything NY-ESPN says, I have lived in San Diego since 1975...no fans in any city can match the knowledge and passion we have for OUR teams...they will continue to pound Andy and Don, until they win one!...look at the coverage flip on the Phillies...now they are saying well, two Championships since 1980 (only two other NL teams have done that: St Louis and Fla)but how about those 10,000 losses?...forget the Muts 3 years in a row of choke after choke...while I don't miss the Philly weather, I sure miss the people and the best of those people are diehard Philly sports fans we are the best!
Posted 11:00 AM, 07/06/2009
AJSer
Gotta understand these ESPN "rankings" are merely a play for all audiences somewhere in the article. They're not actually rankings at all; they're just looking to find a way to work every city with a professional sports team into the list somewhere. Fret not, Philadelphia, our Stadium Experience is just sliiiiiightly more exciting than a Timberwolves game. Just a tad.
Posted 08:02 AM, 07/06/2009
NovaWildcats36
why does it even matter what angelo cataldi thinks? he's a new york fan and probably the most pessimistic, fake "philly fan" ever
Posted 07:07 AM, 07/06/2009
Voytas
I've always said if Andy's feet were on fire, he would stand there and warm his hands. Ok, he is 13th not 14th.
Posted 09:36 PM, 07/05/2009
raoool
ESPN has become puff pieces by their own opinion of faces. The producers prefer to focus on what looks nice in the frame and believe they boost popularity provoking reaction with clowns like Irvin and Deion. Does Andy fit that mold? Sorry - too calm, non-controversial and definitely not pretty.
Posted 08:07 PM, 07/05/2009
bow
f%#@ this list, it is unreal, to put a coach ahead of Reid who does not even have one NFL win is madness. I wonder how many snorts did the writer of this list take b4 he wrote this?
Posted 10:36 AM, 07/05/2009
boltfan
What a silly list of people in front of him Belichick? forgot about the cheating thing already? Tomlin,Fisher? what have they done Andy hasent?
Posted 06:26 AM, 07/05/2009
ericg610
I'm not a huge Andy Reid fan but to have a guy who has not coached a game ranked ahead of him is ridiculous.
Posted 02:04 AM, 07/05/2009
flyers orange 123
There is a bias from national networks against Philadelphia sports and we all know that so when any of these rankings come out we know what's behind it.Hey if they want to keep thinking of Philly with the "snowballs at santa mentality" and try and use that against us then that's their problem.When it comes to Philly sports you are either one of us or your not and you either get what being a Philly sports fan is about or you don't so any polls or lists that come from outside sources are nothing more than meaningless babble.So many of these national jerkoffs would love to know what it is to be a Philly sports fan and they will never know and that bothers them to no end.If they want to think Philly fans are the big bad wolf then let them because the same talking heads that criticize us are the same cowards that would not dare sit amongst us but rather make uninformed and misleading cracks from the safety of a studio.
Posted 12:33 AM, 07/05/2009
phil geiger
Andy's a confused coach. He doesn't take what the other defense gives him . Given the players' that he's coached??? He's chosen most if not all of them. so to say he's a genius I'm afraid you're mistaken. No running game a qb that throws out of rhythm and at the receivers feet. Some genius.
Posted 11:00 PM, 07/04/2009
shotime
It's nice to see most of the posts were positive. I have some problems with Andy, but that's because I'm an Eagles fan. To hear a bunch of s-holes from NY put him low on the list, is no surprise. They think we're all a bunch of fat, ugly, and un-obsessed a-holes. Maybe Yon Stewart and his s-hole associates wrote the list.
Posted 10:43 PM, 07/04/2009
lpb1225
This man has excellent numbers. He has won many games. But look at his success against other NFL greats. Has this man won an NFL game in the last minutes of the 4th quarter? Has he ever demonstrated a willingness to go against the game plan? While I think he has good abilities I think the majority of his success is the fact his football teams were good and able to get leads early and win. If this team is down in the 3rd or 4th quarter, how many games have they won? Mcnabb and Andy are tied this way in that they have not taken their teams and won it in the closingminutes. Andy will never outcoach another NFL coach. This clearly means he belongs where ESPN put him.
Posted 05:04 PM, 07/04/2009
tony b
billro3..you hit the nail right on the head with Reid. That could be a factor in the on-field-leadership judging. Also handling of personnel issues like having someone else tell McNabb he would be benched at the start of the second half...and on the field rather than Reid telling Donovan himself and in the locker room. Still...14th is kinda low looking at all the other people on the list...
Posted 04:34 PM, 07/04/2009
tkotanch
Wow! I had to register just to comment. Of all the bashing about Andy...everyone seems to be defending him. I have to agree. His clock management and ability to adapt during the game sometimes frustrate me..but 14th in the NFL?! No way..top 5-7 easily
Posted 04:20 PM, 07/04/2009
BigGerman
ESPN has had a problem with the Eagles for years,going all the way back to Merryl Hodge Picking them to lose every week in 04'.Maybe Andy has to kick a player off the field during a game,or drop his pants,or have all his players hate him to be considered a field leader by ESPN.Or he could continue to be the most successful Head Coach in Eagles history and not worry about the talking heads.
Posted 02:21 PM, 07/04/2009
Lou Christine
I'm not crazy about Andy but he's a way better coach than at least half on the list. Singleterry is old old school and won't make it, Ryan is a big mouth like his dad, Del Rio, sweet, want him in my foxhole but no rocket scientist. As much as I hate to admit Coughlin has matured and there are good coaches in there. I'll put Andy on par with Fisher.
Posted 02:12 PM, 07/04/2009
JACK V
espn, you mean the yankee/patroits network? oh, i almost forgot they now sponsor nascar. real popular and exciting to watch cars drive around an oval especially on t.v.
Posted 01:33 PM, 07/04/2009
jhjack
I'm surprised AR ranked so high. He's the worst field general there is. He's shwon me no on-filed leadership qualities at all in 11 years. Can anyone - anyone at all - point out 1 game in 11 years where AR made difference in winning a game??
Posted 10:58 AM, 07/04/2009
rockinrob
Who cares? Charlie Manuel comes as off as a country bumpkin yet he managed the Fightin's to a championship. Look at Ken Whisenhunt......he is nowhere man without last year's run. Sheil stick to the Transformer movies.....I like you better in them.
Posted 10:35 AM, 07/04/2009
tjc4golf
ESPN's Ultimate Standings are a joke. Any rankings that have 6 hockey teams in the top 11 are obviously severely flawed.
Posted 08:47 AM, 07/04/2009
birdfannnj
garyshaffer and drpfs say best why Andy is where is he is on this list. I guess 1 year of success gives you top 10 standing, as opposed to proven success over time. and as for Coughlin, that's an absolute joke. his players hate him, and are on the verge of mutiny, but for the assistants. the most important having departed.
Comment removed.
Posted 06:58 AM, 07/04/2009
nuggett
he may not be 14th but he is certianly not in the top 5......Finally the national media get the message....10 years and no SB.....his stock as a game day coach, his timeouts, his drafts, his inability to to make chnges at halftime, his being led by the nose by joe, the real GM, and his disdain for fans and media has finally caught up to him.......Unless of course you think being a bridesmaid but NEVER a bride is your goal.....(as it certianly is Jeffery's goal)
Posted 06:35 AM, 07/04/2009
mikechris
Just put the tape in of either the Bucs or Panthers NFC Championship games or the 2004 Super Bowl. Explains a lot.
Posted 12:58 AM, 07/04/2009
dsoul
not even worth responding to oh wait i just did...go birds
Posted 12:29 AM, 07/04/2009
wokmaster
Reid is WAY better than 15th. I'd agree top 7. He still can't manage the clock and is often to stubborn in his approach but he more than makes up for that in other areas.
Posted 11:31 PM, 07/03/2009
Liberty4All
McReid needs to go, and his Campbell's soup ham McChoke needs to go back to Chi-town to promise them a Super Bowl win for a few years. This is ridiculous, neither one is capable of winning the big game.
Posted 09:29 PM, 07/03/2009
gordy
So much for the national media's love fest for Reid while us stupid fans don't know "how good we have it" Isn't ESPN the ones with Emmitt and Boomer who always complain that we will be sorry when he's gone?
Posted 09:22 PM, 07/03/2009
tacklinjoe
The ratings are not puzzling. Reid is not a great game coach. He's a good judge of talent, a good coordinator of the coaches, and a steady guy at the helm. It is one of the reasons the Eagles have not won the Super Bowl, which doesn't mean they should throw Reid aside. It's an area he has to improve.
Posted 05:42 PM, 07/03/2009
RZA1217
good one bdawk
Posted 05:40 PM, 07/03/2009
Brauny
Totally agree with Billro3. Reid sucks as a game time coach. He still doesnt know how to manage his timeouts or the 2 minute drill. Can't wait til he's gone!
Posted 05:19 PM, 07/03/2009
Romes
Just when you think the refuse that passes for sports journalism these days can't sink any lower, you read this. What's next - a column on the favorite colors of the four managers/head coaches in town?
Posted 05:02 PM, 07/03/2009
bdawkisgod
espn stands for everyone sucks patriots nuts.
Posted 04:50 PM, 07/03/2009
RZA1217
I personally would put Reid top 3 on that joke of a list. Mike Singletary? Come on now
Posted 04:49 PM, 07/03/2009
RZA1217
I agree with merrgerry, no sports broadcasters outside of philly like any of our teams. Look no further than our WS run last year. Every team we played last year were superior to us last year and I couldn't bear listen to that Phils-Dodgers NLCS series. Even the freaking Dodger commercials were nonstop as they were getting their asses handed to them
Posted 04:43 PM, 07/03/2009
RZA1217
ESPN crew are a bunch of f@gs anyways
Posted 04:15 PM, 07/03/2009
JimG
On-field leadership has nothing to do with half-time strategy adjustments or clock-management. That's the strategy part of the job, not the leadership part. One would almost think that this has more to do with showing emotion on the sideline, the fiery types, but Belichick shows less emotion than a robot. He's the Mr. Spock of the NFL. I would say it's probably more a product of a very unscientific ranking.
Posted 04:09 PM, 07/03/2009
occasionalpost
all those rankings are flawed - not just the NFL coaching ones. They do this jsut to stir up buzz around the story. The source ESPN article is garbage.
Posted 03:50 PM, 07/03/2009
TheReck82
AR haters would agree. Even though AR has more playoff wins than Buddy and a better record during his tenure as Eagles head coach then most of the coaches in the NFL today. Consider this: If Dallas' head coach had the same record as AR you wouldn't think THAT coach would be tagged by ESPNYBOS as a legend in ESPN's mind? And Angelo? ANY mention of Angelo "NYC" Cataldi nullifies ANY legitimate statement.
Posted 03:18 PM, 07/03/2009
Flyers2001
Posted by PhillyNH 09:17 AM, 07/03/2009; because it happens to be the opinion of the biggest sports network in the world.
Posted 02:06 PM, 07/03/2009
merrygerry
I wonder when the Philly fans will get it. The sports writers and commentators DO NOT LIKE Philadelphia fans. They still tarnish us with the "Santa Claus" thing and the booing of the choice of McNabb at the draft. Just don't pay any attention to all of them including some in Philadelphia. And DON'T WATCH ESPN! And don't be so negative about all of our teams.
Posted 02:02 PM, 07/03/2009
bobbyuk
ESPN is anti-Philly anyway--always has been. If SB rings get you a higher ranking, only Belichek, Tomlin, and Coughlin should be ahead of him. Mike Smith with only 1 year in the league? Ryan, Singletary?? I'd like to know whaqt sportswriters did the grading.
Posted 01:50 PM, 07/03/2009
Onlineps2beast
Andy was wayyyy outcoached by lovie smith, he should be 15th. Marty brings Andy down the list anyway
Posted 01:28 PM, 07/03/2009
PhillyHouse JayDuce
I have criticized Reid in the past, but I am willing to admit I was wrong (unlike some of the posters on this blog). Reid's track record is very underrated. We as Eagles supporters tend to micromanage faults, and that gets in the way of evaluating a guy's overall performance. And Reid deserves to be considered a top 7 coach.
Posted 01:20 PM, 07/03/2009
sedale
I hate to say this but I don't think the ranking is THAT far off the mark. McNabb/Westbrook and more importantly Professor Johnson's defense/Dawkins have carried this team to the success they have had in the past 10 years. If Reid was more of a leader/betterc\coach, they would have won a superbowl by now. I think a better leader would have somehow made sure McNabb had more weapons at his disposal. Instead, his stubborness about "our guys being good enough" all these years have been the reason for no titles. He brought aboard one stud (TO) but allowed that cancer to spread. Hell, he didn't even have his own house in order (sorry but its true). Reid has his skills but I believe the ranking to be fairly accurate or even kind to Reid.
Posted 01:20 PM, 07/03/2009
sedale
I hate to say this but I don't think the ranking is THAT far off the mark. McNabb/Westbrook and more importantly Professor Johnson's defense/Dawkins have carried this team to the success they have had in the past 10 years. If Reid was more of a leader/betterc\coach, they would have won a superbowl by now. I think a better leader would have somehow made sure McNabb had more weapons at his disposal. Instead, his stubborness about "our guys being good enough" all these years have been the reason for no titles. He brought aboard one stud (TO) but allowed that cancer to spread. Hell, he didn't even have his own house in order (sorry but its true). Reid has his skills but I believe the ranking to be fairly accurate or even kind to Reid.
Posted 01:00 PM, 07/03/2009
PhillyTrue
Stupid. Andy's clock management still needs improvement but he is much better than 14th. I'd say he's in the top 5
Posted 12:18 PM, 07/03/2009
porkerfnm
I would rank Angelo's show at about 564th. Unless you are really into the Wing Bowl.
Posted 12:12 PM, 07/03/2009
Matt M.
More proof that if you quietly go about things and get the job done ESPN doesn't care about you, they'll go chase OchoCinco and Brett Favre.
Posted 12:04 PM, 07/03/2009
bucks148
I agree with the poll. It will definately show this year with Johnson not on the scene: he deserves most of the credit for the Eagle success not Reid. The wins came against teams in a weak division and and week NFC - the other teams have improved and their record have plunged. The Eagles do not have five superbowl wins because of bad decison making by the coach at critical times.
Posted 12:02 PM, 07/03/2009
Warhound
I rate this 197th out of 200 sports lists.
Posted 11:56 AM, 07/03/2009
iloveprimerib!
andy was once innovative. he just gets more predictable, less personable and fatter by the day. hes a very average motivator. look at some of j trotters comments and that was like 5 yrs ago. he got badly outcoached by gruden in early 2003 and been in mental spiral since. i think he is the weakest linc in the chain, sota speak. if the eagles dont get super banged up this yr, which seems to usually happen, but if they dont, and they dont go back to the super bowl, andy shud be fired, imo.
Posted 11:33 AM, 07/03/2009
IggleFanInExile
philadelphian's may be paranoid.......but, they really are out to get us. "LK"
Posted 11:20 AM, 07/03/2009
phink
Who cares what ESPN, or Cataldi thinks? We're not talking about journalists here. We're talking about the TMZ of sports. Cataldi is a Giants fan to boot. That guy is the biggest phony of all time.
Posted 11:16 AM, 07/03/2009
allrightknight
I think Andy has problems. I think he has a fear of success as in winning the Super Bowl! So for me there may be an element of truth to the ranking not to say that it's Gospel but at the same time there is something there. This ranking may also be reflecting on his personal problems within his family. Sometimes stuff like that can lead people to question ones character and see flaws. Getting close for a bunch of years and not getting it done I think may mean he is percieved as a failure as well. That being said I think Andy is a good enough coach and all his other responsibilities with the Eagles to get them to a Super Bowl victory, that is if he can get over his fear of success.
Posted 10:44 AM, 07/03/2009
tornadoh
The best indicator of Reid's game day coaching ability is his won-loss record in close games (decided by less than a TD). I remember seeing the number last season and it was well below .500. Bottom Line: Guys like Belichik find a way to win close games; Reid doesn't, that's why he is mediocre and can't get over the SB hump, in my opinion. The infuriating part is that he is too stubborn to admit his mistakes and change and grow and learn from them, and because he has total control as GM/Head Coach nobody can make him, except ownership, who obviously won't as long as there are fannies in the seats and merchandise flying off the shelves. 14th sounds about right.
Posted 10:35 AM, 07/03/2009
Bobphxville
I love Andy as our coach - but I don't disagree with the ranking. Andy's strength is not in on-the field leadership - but through careful preparation. This is not meant to be a knock on Andy, who I wouldn't trade for any coach in the league - including that fraud Belichek who has ridden the coat tails of one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game.
Posted 10:30 AM, 07/03/2009
mish798798
What a joke....you could argue he doesn't belong in the top 3, but there's no way that he is not top 7. I would bet that even the small but vocal "fire Andy Reid" crowd would agree that he is ranked way to low on that list.
Comment removed.
Posted 10:08 AM, 07/03/2009
billro3
Reid's coaching strength is in his preparation and game planning, while his coaching weakness is in his inability to deviate or make adjustments during the course of a game from his original plan when it is ineffective.
Posted 10:07 AM, 07/03/2009
DJ
First off we'd have to care what ESPN thinks, "we don't" so it doesn't matter does it!!!
Posted 10:04 AM, 07/03/2009
positive eagle
media gets bored this time of year no real nfl stories till camp open s so they write any bs they can come up with to generate chatter.best coach in eagles history n top 5 team through the decade he must be leading sumn right
Posted 09:47 AM, 07/03/2009
maximus
Every year you have the media nay sayers about the Eagles. At the end of the year the Eagles are always in the thick of things. I pay no attention to polls, or what the talking heads have to say. Let the season begin and the Eagles will be in the playoffs again and then revisit this stupid list.
Posted 09:28 AM, 07/03/2009
MikeP
It so clear that the rankings are inaccurate that it calls into question ESPN's legitimacy. Reid is one of the top 2-3 coaches in the league. Stadium experience ranked 74th for the Linc? Ranked below places that can't fill the stadium and the fans that are there are passive. Blatantly off the mark.
Posted 09:26 AM, 07/03/2009
garyshaffer
Andy's just OK....clock management, emotion, loyalty, the handling of delicate matters (benching McNabb fiasco),communication and throwing the replay flag....as Andy would say "we've got to do a better job there and there and there" but 14th...?
Posted 09:17 AM, 07/03/2009
PhillyNH
Idiotic , why waste our time with this stuff, its all conjecture anyway. Just someone's opinion. I need some good inside eagle articles to get me through this dismal summer. Look's like the phillies are one and DONE!!!!!
Posted 09:11 AM, 07/03/2009
drpfs
Reid "ain't pretty" but does deserve better ranking than this. He is genuine football genius when you consider the Philly fan base and the talent on his past teams (present team the jury is still out}. He has done much with a team every year 10's of millions under the cap. AR has a several handicaps I see, first an owner and "team president" who are in a word cheap(not Connie Mack cheap)and intrusive, a stadium that from day one is a joke in modern stadium terms, a football field that is torn to shreds every Saturday by the clowns at Temple (few if any other team allows a college team to share a pro venue on a grass field), and AR's lack of pretty. You listen to the man though you hear a tough minded and disciplined individual. The very essence of this "ranking" is based upon how "pretty a cheerleader" the writer wanted to see in a coach. Andy should be ranked only after those who have one a Super Bowl, and possible first for his ability to win with mediocre talent, including the QB (another story).
Posted 09:07 AM, 07/03/2009
VicFromLA
Best coach we've had, and certainly one of the top coaches in the league this past decade. I guess ESPN, like alot of Philly fans I've heard, value style (visible emotion) over substance (tangible results).
Posted 08:58 AM, 07/03/2009
JBP
Crazy poll...AR has his flaws but he is a WINNER and I rank him in the top 7 at least
Posted 08:55 AM, 07/03/2009
chilly88
just look at the record in his tenure. Reid is better then most. Yes Super Bowls define coaches and QB but give me a break the guy is a proven winner.
Posted 08:54 AM, 07/03/2009
Dierte
Top 5 for sure...he is 3rd or 4th, in most wins since he started in 2000. I'd say he is behind Bilicheat, Fisher, and Tomlin...14th is ridiculous
Posted 08:50 AM, 07/03/2009
Lockyer
I live just north of Jax. While Del Rio is a great guy with a lot of charisma, I'll bet most Jag fans would take Andy in a heartbeat.
Posted 08:37 AM, 07/03/2009
ziggy
on field leadership must be defined as showing emotion..AR is quiet on the sidelines, but leadership is more than making faces and slapping helmets. AR belongs in the top 7
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Sheil Kapadia is a sports producer for philly.com. His earliest memories as a sports fan include several trips to Veterans Stadium with his dad, most of which turned out disappointing results. He's here to discuss the NFL 365 days a year. E-mail him at skapadia@philly.com or by clicking here

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