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I thought that both sides agreed not to strike? What the hell is this?
Go bankrupt and open a new transit company! SEPTA is filled with some much waste, poor management and abuse. Governor help the citizens resume control of our great state. Bus Drivers in Disney World make $7-$10 /Hr
Good, Let the union go out of business.....the city will struggle thru this and in the end the city will be bettr off without the free loading do nothing union members and their greedy union bosses....When they realize that a job is better than no job they will come back begging.......
martin710: Do you really think the waste comes from the wages of the people at the bottom? It's the top management. You must be a republican.
I connect to the 201 bus from the R5 in Ft Washington and these idiots leave every day before the train arrives. These clowns cannot read a clock and they want a 4% per year raise? Fire them all, get immigrants with clean driving records and pay them $12/hr. They will appreciate the hell out of their job.
I support the workers. Pay them well, we need them. Do you really think they WANT to strike? Nobody WANTS to strike but they have no other choice.
This is just politics as usual in Philadelphia. The politicians intervene when it comes to being embarrassed on the national stage in the World Series, once the Series is out of Philadelphia they forget about all of the working people and the students who elect them and pay their wages.
Im glad i dont have to use SEPTA .
Unions and the greedy corporations will be the down fall of the country, and the economy.
When is the average working man going to realize that unions are not actually good for the public any more? They were absolutely necessary back in the day when there were no labor laws (and our country is now better for it). However in this day and age the unions just promote greed/corruption from management and laziness/feelings of entitlement/poor service from the workers.
I hope you're not citing Disney World as anything resembling reality there, Martin. Professional bus drivers who work on real streets and highways don't make that little. That said, I still don't find the union's claims of discrimination hold up.
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Is it not clear that Septa is in the wrong with their tactics???? They tricked the union into believing they were willing to make a deal so there would not be a strike during the World Series to make an embarassment of the city. Now that the city is done using these workers, they stop negotiations. What a lousy disgusting ploy. I totally support this strike and am deeply ashamed that Rendell and Nutter would make it seem like the union is in the wrong. I am ASHAMED I voted for either of them and believe me, they sure lost my support.
Being a SEPTA employee, I can honestly understand the union workers postions and I do understand where the riders are coming from. Instead of the riders pointing the finger at the "low man on the totem pole", understand what is going on. We are tired of being repremanded for every little thing that goes wrong. If a letter is written in on an employee, we are guilty no matter what. Even if the letter is bogus. We are not backed up by the employer at all. If something goes wrong, the crew is ALWAYS to blame, even though we the hourly employees are always the last to know. I really do understand why the city looks at the bus drivers, sub drivers, and all other transit workers as though we are greedy, but this is not the case. This is a matter of trying to put our foot down on them abusing us. We work up to 12 hrs a day and yes we are paid well and were aware of the commitment, however, at any given time the company can and will extend our jobs. This is going cause a lot of headache for the riders and for the employees, but ask yourself how you would feel under these conditions. What would you expect and extend to the company? Your only hearing one side of the story and the second side is being pieced together for the readers. Next time stop and ask a transit worker exactly whats going on. There is some cloudiness but be open minded.
Sheyat-they make more after 4 years in this city of tenure ($50K+) than those who teach in the public schools ($35) and to me this is 110% messed up. Teachers get college degrees to qualify! How can they be so greedy and have such delusions of grandeur? DC bus drivers make less ON PAPER as well as much less in the real world (money is twice to three times as tight in DC as in Philly)but they don't tie up the city out of greed!
Get Nutter Outta Here Long As The Phillies Aren't Playing In Philadelphia Anymore He Don't Care How School Children Get 2 school Or How Working People Get To Their Jobs To Provide 4 Their Families He Don't Want 2 Give Septa The Money IDKY Well I Hope He Have Budget Money 4 Shelters Bcuz W/O septa Thousands Will Lose Their Jobs Wat A Shame Now Philadelhia Will Really Have A Black Eye
Time to buy a bicycle
Rendell and Nutter was worried about the image of a city with a transit strike during the World Series. This could have been worked out months ago. The union has to play hardball just to get a decent contract. Septa loses riders everytime there is a strike. Septa management are fools to try and go toe to toe with such a powerful union...
Hey Fishtown. I am a registered democrat, I believe in unions to a point. I have been told about people sleeping on the job, managers looking the other way, forced to spend money to keep getting the same money. Its a joke........
Top to bottom its broke and should be closed/reorganized. Business requires more efficient operation(s). Bonus for performance and out of business for not making money and under performance.
Customer service terrible, fee for service terrible, and ridership poor
Phillies won!
City workers have been without a contract since July 1 and still continue to serve the people. WTH? Now the working people and the children have to suffer. Public schools get a bad rep for the lack of attendance and graduates. SEPTA has just contributed to the truancy issue. They have made people's lives more difficult in an already difficult time.
It is a labor force such as SEPTA's that drove me to move my business out of Pennsylvania to a right to work state. More and more jobs are lost everyday from the northeast sadly. The Governor and Mayor and Board should fire everyone of the employees. LET THEM GO!
I hope the SEPTA board reorganizes under an entire different rule and staff.
See what kind of wages those who work for SEPTA can get outside of SEPTA....perhaps those on strike should begin practicing the line "Do you want fries with that? " for that is what type of job they will find available in Philadelphia.... So sad and so needless.
Poor SEPTA workers - yes this is clearly yet another sign of just how mistreated that you are. The problem is that this argument would have a lot more weight if they didn't keep re-using it every couple of years as they go out on strike again. Unitygril - rather than discussing the abuse, why don't you address the pay issues , which appear to be at the root of this upcoming strike?
Do you know how much it cost our government to run SEPTA. Hard taxpayers dollars, are lost in a government run a defunk system. BILLIONS. Check out the Post Office run by government polaticions. More BILLIONS. You must know how many BILLIONS. Our America's beloved White House, is going to loose on National Health Care. BILLIONS. Enough is enough. A word to the wise is sufficiwent.
guess i should have waited to buy my transpass, great.
One break the city does get is some people have today off, so many people will have a day to prepare. This still hurts.
How many millions of dollars do you think the average CEO makes? Who do you think is more exhausted at the end of a work day, some corporate fat cat or a guy who's been driving a bus for 10 hours?
I have a college degree and there is no way that I would have the patience or fortitude to deal with jerks and traffic all day long to drive a trolley.
These people work hard and are in charge of our safety as passengers. They work to ensure the safety or many, many people everyday and they should be treated well and paid accordingly.
I have to try to find a ride to get to work in a few hours. It is going to suck. BUT I STILL SUPPORT THE SEPTA WORKERS.
I am with the union on this one. It seems today, everyone is taking cuts, for something we didn't cause. The wealthy are being rewarded, and we take a hit. Not to mention the future hits. Rendell and the likes, don't really feel the pain and suffering do they? All they worry about is how they look on the covers and pages of "Philadelphia". This has got to end, people support this strike. By the way, call Fast Ed and ask his state police cars to drive you to work.
this is dumb... way to leave us all stranded
If they were going to strike or not it was very disrespectful to riders and the rest t not atleast leave that possiblity open . Last we heard was that there would be no strike and they were working things out then I am awaken by 20 calls from my employer saying they need me since the stike plan was cancelled when we thought the stike threat was over. If the possiblity was still there the riders could have been ready. I agree with the Rendall that was a very sneaky move on the part of the union.
If they were going to strike or not it was very disrespectful to riders and the rest t not atleast leave that possiblity open . Last we heard was that there would be no strike and they were working things out then I am awaken by 20 calls from my employer saying they need me since the stike plan was cancelled when we thought the stike threat was over. If the possiblity was still there the riders could have been ready. I agree with the Rendall that was a very sneaky move on the part of the union.
I support labor and the right to unionize and even strike but this is unconscionable. To do this in the middle of the night so that when the public wakes up this morning to this crisis is unforgivable. Union officials should know this is a awful way to treat the riding public which supplies you with your jobs. The way this was done will not help you garner the support of the riding public.I guess we should be glad that allowed the public the pleasure of attending the World Series.Good for Phillies fans . Unfortunately we have to get to work, school,and the doctor this morning. Now is the time for the mayor and the govener to show their true leadership qualities.
I grew up in a Teamster household, and was always taught to "look for the union label." However, I am completely disgusted by this action on the part of Septa workers. YOU HAVE NO SPECIALIZED SKILL! Time to bring in wholesale layoffs and start over. There is no money left in the coffers for these greedy do-littles.
Bone headed union, brain dead authority.
When I went to sleep last night, there was no strike. Now I wake up to find that I have no way to get to work? I am feeling a lot of sympathy for Reagan over the air traffic controllers at the moment.
What a selfish and galling act by the union members.
Septa Management wanted to hire part-timers and sub out work. Further taking good quality jobs from labor. They're the issues now. And Rendell and Nutter, having benefitted from the endosements of Labor, just love slamming the worker who they feed from.
Do yourselves a favor and vote Republican next time. Democrats have all become self-serving SOCIALISTS.
SEPTA Sucks! Unions = Unemployment take an econ class, pretty basic.
Let us all raise a toast to the end of SEPTA. Don't be surprised if you hear talk of privatization out of Harrisburg over this.
Septa workers work hard everyday to ensure people get to where they have to. I am sure none of them wanted to strike, they are merely asking for what is fair and deserved. As far as anybody questioning why they would complain about their pensions, this is the entire problem with corporations in the U.S., they have taken things from the worker, like pensions and decent benefits and wages. This is why all workers should be unionized. Don't you see you are being ripped off without one? Just be fair with workers-This is TWU's and all unions' message. Wake up people, why should you work for scraps???
Are they stupid?! EVERYONE took pay cut...EVERYONE! Government officials and workers (some of who, by the way, aren't even receiving their pensions on time), hospitals closed laying off thousands of workers, colleges dropped funding leaving millions of kids stranded, the plumbers union is in dire straights, and at least thirty franchises in the area are GOING OUT OF BUSINESS. I say we give these jobs to those who can appreciate it. These men and women didn't go to college! I dare they believe they entitles to an accountants salary. FIRE THEM ALL! There are lots of automobile workers who wouldn't mind taking their place.
Trident- Privitize rumors may fly but the private sector is no cure for the misperceived ills of unionization as even the private sector workers are finally waking up to the benefits of unionization. Also there are many levels of government itself that could be privitized, unionized workers do not forget who supports their cause.
Everyone on this board seems to be ill educated. The woman above was correct. They make more than a Philadelphia school teacher. So, for all of you complaining people, speaking of "fat CEO's"...get this: most of them DO work hard for their money. Driving all day is not rocket science. If you feel that's such a high grossing job then maybe van drivers should be paid more, and so should school bus drivers and driver's education teachers...The whole point is this: SEPTA IS THE HIGHEST GROSSING TRANSPORTATION COMPANY IN THE COUNTRY! THEY MAKE MORE THEN THE NY TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY. That's AMAZING to me. For everyone speaking about how much they make, you clearly don't realize that they probably make more than YOU.
If possible, when they roll the buses, subways and trolleys back out after the strike...every rider should boycott them for one day....this is a dirty, sneaky move...no notice at all....what crumbs!
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Fire them all!
Im tired os seeing all of these posts about how much money the Bus Drivers make compared to people with college degrees. Did any of you Mensa Candidates stop to think that maybe....just maybe...that its no the drivers who are overpaid...but its the other jobs who are underpaid? 20 years ago...50k/year would seem like a lot of money....now it isn't. And those of you always worried about how broke SEPTA is...SEPTA is publicly funded...they will never make a profit...the more money they spend in the red the more money they get next year...thats just the way it works.
Now I dont agree with the union tactics of going out on a blind strike at 3am in the morning(they should have done it after the evening rush to give people notice), I do however believe they have the right to strike and I wish them the best of luck. After reading some of these posts about them, I am sure many of whom use SEPTA, They definitely deserve a raise.
F THE UNIONS and their scum sucking leaders. Millions of people unemployed and they have the B*LLS to voluntarily go on strike, what nerve!!!
Not being poor or hipster I'll be driving.
unitygrl, that's nice but being "abused" by an employer does not entitle you to more pay. $50k for driving a bus isn't enough? Give me a break.
Fraz, you're amazing. $50,000 IS a lot of money. As MENSA candidates, we are well aware of inflation, so that's not an issue. If this is truly a fight for blue collar America, than go boycott for fast food and retail workers, teachers, security guards and other ill paid victims of the system. It's unfair that bus drivers get paid as much as city cops who put their LIFE on the line EVERYDAY! The starting salary for a state trooper is $60,000 and to become one, you have to have at least two years of college. Do you think that a Septa bus driver equates with that?
THE FIRST THING SEPTA EMPLOYEES HAVE TO DO IS VOTE THE IDIOT OUT WHO IS RUNNING YOUR UNION, YOU HAD ALL KINDS OF LEVERAGE BEFORE THE WEEKEND AND YOU LET FAST EDDIE AND FAT MAN BRADY AND THAT WIMP NUTTER COME IN AND SUCKER YOU INTO HOLDING OFF SAYING WE CAN GET THIS DONE, WHAT A BUNCH OF MORONS.
I hope Ryan Howard would end his Strike and oust the yankees by driving them out of the Park.
This is what happens when there is no competition. If there was an alternative to Septa, these people would think twice. What they were offered was reasonable, (and more than anyone else seems to get these days) but their "leaders" probably convinced them that they could do better. I hope they enjoy their days without a paycheck.
Not affected because I bike or walk to work but I'm sure I'll be affected as many of my co-workers depend on SEPTA to get to work so things will be stressfull during this.
Fast Eddie, Brady, Nutter, Democrats, Republicans...they all want your labor support, money and vote. When it's time to help us out with management, we're the bad guys. Nobody, but nobody wins.
For all of you that are mad at the union - think about this...the union's gave up a big bargining position by agreeing not to strike because they AND YOU were lied to. Rendall and Nutter pretended to commit to negiotiating JUST TO KEEP FACE FOR THE WORLD SERIES! Rendall and Nutter, once the TV camera were gone and the last pitch was thrown did not care about "the people that needed to get to work or doctors appointments" If they would lie so blatently here, what else do you think they do to the workers???????? For people that don't like that SEPTA union employees get paid a decent working wage while others professions don't - THE PURPOSE OF A UNION IS TO GET DECENT WAGES FOR ITS EMPLOYEES - don't blame the union for doing its job. Driving is not an easy job by any means and if these workers weren't skilled - then the hundreds of people that walk in front of moving buses without looking, the hundreds of cars that forget the law of physics and turn in front of moving buses - would be seriously injured! I dare some of you to last a day doing their job... you wouldn't/couldn't take what they have to deal with everyday!
This is amazing. Hold off the strike for a ballgame and then stand all the working people and students. To SEPTA and the Union: A pox on both your houses.
This is amazing. Hold off the strike for a ballgame and then stand all the working people and students. To SEPTA and the Union: A pox on both your houses.
have most of you ever driven a bus? i did for three and a half years, and guess what! it's hard work! instead of complaining that 'college graduates make less as teachers,' why don't you ask why it is that teachers make so little, rather than pitting one group of workers against another in a race to the bottom. as others have pointed to, workers DON'T WANT strikes, because that means money lost out of their pocket. turn your misdirected anger on those who are at the root of this: CEO's and the state. SEPTA received $211 million from the stimulus as well as an increase in ridership. you think the money's not there? also, i want to know where those of you citing the MTA are getting your salary numbers from, because the most information i can find cites starting salary at $26/hr. starting in 2006, from http://gothamist.com/2006/12/27/transit_workers_2.php .
as to the fellow complaining about unions having no use, if they had no use then why has the discrepancy between employee salaries and the average CEO's increased by 400% since the 1970's, while union membership has dropped, and only recently begun to rise. as to 'worker's rights', not a lot is guaranteed in labor law, and in fact, the NLRB has proven time and again how open its ears are to management.
The union and its leaders are living on another planet. No one receives a 4% salary increase annually. That hasn't happened in over a decade. They need to get on board with the hundreds of thousands of other workers who (like myself) have not had a wage increase in several year. Its not that difficult to live off of the same salary for another year.....they've already done it. I stopped riding SEPTA years ago and will continue not to ride it. I do feel for the folks who have no other means of transportation.
The issues that unitygrl expresses seems to be a problem with Employment/Employee Practices and is usually addressed by a companys experienced HR department.
What, 11% increase in wage and pension funding over four years, with no healthcare withholding increases wasn't good enough for you? Your union leader must be a really, really smart guy.
Stop letting short sighted unions hijack our city. Let's start training new employees now. Maybe fat Willy Brown will lose some weight?
If they get a pay increase, this issue will become bigger than SEPTA. There's just not enough money to go around. It would be totally unfair for the bus drivers to get wage increases while government workers: teachers, firefighters and police officers get paid the same. Almost every job I know of is on a hiring freeze as well as a wage increase freeze. If they get more than what they're making now, all the unions in the city will go crazy.
Have'nt you people figured this out yet. The unions are big business, they are the same as the companies that they fight. get rid of the unoion dues and the employees bought a 20% raise without it costing on more dime to SEPTA
Why should they be getting 4% raises, pensions, job security etc. when the vast majority of people are happy to keep their job, let alone survive w/o a pay cut. The union needs to realize that this is not the economy of 10 years ago (thanks W) and maybe it's better to tell the workers be happy (as if ANY septa bus driver could ever be happy - what a load of miserable sots) they have a job.
I hate you SEPTA!!!
how is everyone forgetting how important transit workers are to the functioning of the city? how is it so easy for people to overlook them?
4% annual increase is actually quite standard, but judging by everyone's ignorance, it's glaringly obvious what class most of you are from...and where your allegiances lie.
I'd stop and ask a transit worker what's going on, but I wouldn't want to interrupt his or her 5th smoke break of the day. Some of these union people shold at least pretend that they're busy. Ever wonder why about 90% of the comments are always anti-union?
Just wish that the media had given us some fair warning instead of towing Nutter and Rendell line.
This is un-real. Such little notice. Don't they want the public on their side. I agree TTT, teachers educating our future make less. A great benefit, salary and pension offer--they walk away, take it all off the table. I hope Brady doesn't swing in and save the day, let them suffer. A good test for Nutter.
poger 67 the former president has nothing to do with this strike stop being a hater, george w bush did not destroy this economy, barney fran, harry reid, nancy pelosi and company destroyed this country with their irresponsible plans, foreclosures out the wazoo because they felt everyone was entitled to a 6 bedroom house, when everyone on both sides of the aisle take accounts for the problems they created we might be ok
Greedy employees should leave SEPTA and apply for jobs on Wall Street. Maybe their wages could be financed by bailout $.
What can one expect from a union that cheapens Dr. Martin Luther King's legacy by framing their fight with SEPTA as a "civil rights" issue.
good luck, TWU!
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Fire every last one of them and replacement. Can't pay more than 1% of their income for health insurance. Wouldn't you love that set up?
LE&W=Leave early and walk!
redcrustin, do the math. $24.24 an hour is more than $45k per year, plus benefits many would be happy to receive. You think that's not enough for a bus driver? I think it's quite a nice middle-class wage. I'm sorry, but forcing the rest of us to find a way to work, school, and other important engagements because someone doesn't think $45k for driving in a circle is enough is just ludicrous.
It is totally irresponsible to strike without giving people notice. No matter what your position in regard to the union and its demands, they had promised no strike. SEPTA should fire everyone of the TWU strikers and replace them with people who want to work.
Time for SEPTA's management to fork over their outrageous salaries and put the savings back in the till. The union also needs to realize that they're not entitled to top-of-the-line benefits anymore as those days are over.
I'm really tired of SEPTA's bs! This happens every few years and their service gets worse and worse with every strike. They're expensive, inept, and dirty.
We seriously need another transit system in this city!
Domestic Economic Terrorists. Is the Patriot Act still in affect?
FishtownYo didn't learn about courage and responsibility. How about you TELL your union bosses what YOU think instaed of sitting back and letting them ruin your livlihood. Why even discuss the pension fund. It is so grossly underfunded that to bring into compliance would bankrupt the system (and then there would be no pension at all because the national pension gaurentee trust is about broke also). You'll all end up on the street with nothing if you continue to allow $100+K union bosses to wreck your lives. Congratulations taxi companies- Christmas came early for you.
Dear Septa employees, YOU HAVE JOBS in contrast to my friends that worked for 15 years at GM and Chrysler. This is not the best time to be complaining and expecting sympathy. unitygrl what does "the company can and will extend our jobs". We have NO idea of what your talking about. But it sounds good compared to being unemployed. You need to get the government to reduce fares and increase service and subsidies, NOT strike and alienate riders
Dear Septa employees, YOU HAVE JOBS in contrast to my friends that worked for 15 years at GM and Chrysler. This is not the best time to be complaining and expecting sympathy. unitygrl what does "the company can and will extend our jobs". We have NO idea of what your talking about. But it sounds good compared to being unemployed. You need to get the government to reduce fares and increase service and subsidies, NOT strike and alienate riders. You people even have a pension!!
So we won't be able to not buy tokens from the friendly people in the booths down in the subways. Somehow that sounds like an improvement to me.
These Septa strikes are becoming as regular as the Thanksgiving Day Parade. Which is the Union's biggest problem, we're finding ways to adapt without them. Stay on strike as long as you need this time, we'll get by without you.
septa bl*ws,,,i use lexus...
Some additional comments:
Health-care - Septa employees pay 1% of their wages for health care, which is less than $10 weekly. I am on Social Security and medicare and pay $45 weekly.
Wages - SEPTA pays the union workers between $600 and $1000 weekly. Most of their riders make less than the SEPTA employees. Who represents the lower classes in this conflict?
Bring in the scabs
this is why people don't like unions. It is the middle of the worst recession since the 30's and these guys are going to bring the city to it's knees over a pay increase most Americans will not see for the next 10 years. Unions served a purpose at one point but it it stuff like this that makes most Americans think of them as thugs.
Another useless union thinking they are immune to the recession. Meanwhile those of us who need to get to work with no raise and increased cost of benefits this year are late today, because you chose 3am (when you were done collecting World Series money) to strike. Unions like this should be required to give notice to the people it serves. The unions are GREEDY and CARELESS.
The transit workers was set up by their President and politicians. They knew if the contract wasn't sign before the last Philly game that the powers to be couldn't care less about SEPTA demands. All they cared about is transportation to and from the games. Today is election day and we are supposed to continue on to trust politicians. Remember God don't like ugly and don't care for beauty.
"the union chose to walk away from an "excellent" contract offer that includes 11 percent in wage increases over five years, and 11 percent increase in pension contributions, and no increases in workers' contribution for health care."
Wow! Septa bus drivers must walk on water compared to the rest of us. They get something laid out right to them that so many others wish for.....and they say ehhh we dont want that. Then they really say the heck with every one else with thier gorilla warfare labor dispute tactics this morning. Selfish Bullies!!!
Replace them all! Overpaid bus drivers that hold the city at gun point whenever they feel like it. You want to save the city some money? Get rid of SEPTA.
Dear SEPTA, please have the courage to take on these economic terrorists once and for all. An entire region, especially the poor and working poor, are being held hostage by a group of individuals who believe they do not need to operate within the same economic parameters as the rest of the population. If you were to offer these positions for hire tomorrow, you would receive 50 able applicants for every slot. This city does not need to go through this exercise every few years. The people and the economics are against the TWU this time. Do not let this opportunity go by.
Start hiring! BUST THE UNION!!!!! Look at the deal these vultures were offered, 11% raise over the next 5 years?! WHO EXPECTS THAT!
SEPTA sucks. Unions suck. They can suck together. This is a matter of patronage and the someone's ego not being stroked hard enough. This is disgusting and makes everyone at SEPTA look like fools (managment and staff). I hope the governor cuts all your funding, and watch what happens to your previous pension...
Now is the time to get rid of Septa. Bring in a non union privet owned company to run the transportation grid.
The union is being greedy a 3:00 am stoppage is a slap in the face of working people like myself. Who gets raises and benefits like this in this economy while the rest of us are dealing with pay cuts and layoffs? This will be an economic mess for the city.
I am proud to be an union member and Septa workers life is in danger everyday and the fat cats sit in their plush office and live the life of luxury. We, union members need stronger union leaders that will fight for their workers like back in day. The City and SEPTA union leaders are punks and let politicians tell them what to do instead of looking out for the betterment of their members. The CITY unions should support SEPTA if only for 1 or 2 days.
lowlifes get to work
Who cares about the World Series. Thank you SEPTA. Now I have no ability to get to class unless I scrape up some money to purchase a bicycle in oh, two hours. How wonderful. Paying an arm and a leg for education, and now I can't even get there.
F the SEPTA drivers. I will be taking the train from now on, even though it costs more. What a bunch of idiots leaving the riding public stranded and calling a surprise strike.
Unitygrl - go work somewhere else then. We live in a free country. If nobody else is willing to pay you what you make for your skills, then maybe you're in a good situation and you shut your mouth and go to work like everyone else.
SEPTA workers deserve a decent working wage, but they also need to understand that EVERYONE is hurting. Wildcat strikes like this do little to endear unions to the public. Bad move.
People who don't understand what is going on should keep their mouths shut. They just don't understand. If their employer came to them and told them that their wages were going to be reduced, health care taken away or changed, and that they were no longer going to have a pension or reduced pension even though they contributed for years to it, they wouldn't like it one bit. The strike was not sprung on people without a warning, it has been in the talks for months or if people haven't paid attention, at least the last week. People had plenty of time to make alternative plans in case there was a strike. They just didn't take the workers seriously if they haven't made alternate plans. Like unitygrl said, stop and ask a worker what is going on. Don't take what you hear in the media as the truth. Not all workers are bus drivers either.
I love the way people keep commenting that this was a surprise strike!!!! How can they say that when they have been talking about this for months even weeks if you want to go that far. The SEPTA workers have been working without a contract since March!!!!!
There are people posting on this site who work two jobs to make ends meet. Who come home from one eight hour shift for a few hours only to go back to another. Septa workers on the other hand are complaining about 12 hour work days where the make time and half? Your complaining because your managers comes down on you for CUSTOMER(NOT RIDERS THESE ARE CUSTOMERS) complaining about poor service. Bus drivers in this city make on avg over 50,000 with full benifits and pension. Septa Maintenace workers can make nearly six figures with overtime. In this economy no one at SEPTA, both managment and workers, should be getting a pay raise. You guys can then be like the rest of us.
So they are striking b/c they make $50k+ for no real training needed, only pay 1% for healthcare, getting a guaranteed increase over 5 years, and can't be laid off...WOW!! It is no wonder SEPTA has to beg the state for money every year to pay all this. By the way, this was the same union that didn't want drug testing for their workers who drive around bus/train fulls of people every day. Break this union!
I think it's time for Rendell to pull a Reagan (circa 1981) and set a deadline for midnight tonight and for those still striking, fire 'em and get rid of the union.
One can dream, no?
Wanted: Need another 5,500 Septa employees. Job requirement, willing to work.
First off thanks to the SEPTA bus driver who took me to the Villanova station so I could get the train in; some people still care! It was communicated to me that this strike was over nonunion workers doing work union members could do (subcontractors). If this is true than the union is trying to save their members' jobs. I can sympathize with that. I echo others here in saying you couldn't pay me $50k a year to drive a bus up the Schuylkill to KofP every day!
Get rid of all the Septa workers and hired new people who are looking for jobs. They did get some of what they wanted but because they didn't get ALL what they wanted, they decided to strike and to call a strike at 3 am is STUPID. Maybe someday, the public can go on strike against SEPTA workers.
Pensions and regular raises are gone forever, except for septa.
Close down SEPTA and TWU. Get rid of both the management and the workers. Bring in people who are willing to work. Both groups are totally in the wrong. The politians are useless. Bring the system back up without all of this sludge.
As a retired Philadelphia firefighter I recognize the cramping process of contract negotiations. Firefighters and police are unionized workers, however, are barred, by law, from striking. I think that is a good thing. I can sympathize with the SEPTA workers, but, the problem with a strike is that it does less to hurt the city and the people with whom they are negotiating, but it is devastating to the people they serve. Like it or not, they do serve the public and the public is hurting from this. By the way; it doesn't do a lot for the striking troops, either. I wonder how much the region saves each day the strike is on. I remember years ago hearing a number of something in the order of $90,000 per day. The strike then lasted long enough to pay for the raises, etc. the union received. Interesting.
This is a joke. Nutter needs to hire bus drivers from out of town bring them in to the city and put an end to this. For all the union members out there, don't fool yourself into believing you're not replaceable. There are plenty of unemployed bus drivers in this country that would love to make what you're currently making.
Just to show how backward Philadelphia's (and the union's) priorities are. No strike for a stupid baseball game. Strike on election day. Fire them all!!
Just two years ago septa workers were crying when they thought they were going to loose their jobs. Greed is what it's all about.
Just two years ago septa workers were crying when they thought they were going to loose their jobs. Greed is what it's all about.
Just two years ago septa workers were crying when they thought they were going to loose their jobs. Greed is what it's all about.
Septa makes me sick. Considering the fact we are in a recession, they should be happy to take a raise at all. I personally saw a very small 2% raise this year. On top of that my before tax medical costs increased 40% this year! I think those at the top and the bottom of Septa need to wake up and understand that their greedy ways are now hurting the other non union workers in this city who are simply trying to get to work each day and provide for their families. It's disgusting.
Just another strike over health insurance benefits. When are we going learn that the work-for-health care approach just messes up everything.
If we had universal health care I would have been on the train this morning
Now there will be time to clean the smell of urine out of all the trains and stations. If you took this bunch of people and had them attempt to get a job in the public sector 75% would be sitting at home.
IF SEPTA thinks they'll get any public support, they are so wrong! They are arguing about having to pay more than $40 per month for health care?!?!?! I pay $350!! They want pension perks to stay? I lost my pension in 1990. NO ONE has pensions anymore in the real world.
I now have to find a way, because I work too, to take my son to college every day until those selfish jerks get their way.
I'm now against the SEPTA union every way possible.
The posters who think unions are no longer needed because of "labor laws" must have slept through the last 30 years. Unions have lost power and membership the last 30 years.....result? Way more out sourcing, way more difference in the top 1% wealth vs the rest of the people. When will people realize that the money wasted on welfare and unions is a lot but still TINY in comparison of the corporate welfare and big business military waste??? You are focused on the wrong end of the waste folks!
My best friend used to work for SEPTA and he is one of the hardest working people I know. Trust me, the problem is not the average working man in this situation it is SEPTA management. While working at SEPTA hew as subject to 75-80 hour work weeks selling tokens at the Frankfurt station with "promises" from management that he would soon ascend to to the level of management. They were all broken promises and he was basically abused. This whole "be happy you have a job" mentality is allowing companies to do whatever they want to their employees while the employees sit back in fear. We stopped accruing any type of personal/vacation or sick days where I work...not to mention there haven't been raises in over 2 years. While the economy is in the toilet, the people at the top are still profiting big time. When they start suffering too I'll point my finger at the "working man"...until that time...I say "pro union" and strike on!! I wish I had a union to fight my company that is "railroading" me and my fellow co-workers where the sun don't shine!
unitygrl, get a clue. What do you think every other employee working for a private company deals with? Mandatory overtime, bosses pointing fingers, stress. Everyone has to deal with it AND your union is complaining about 11% raises over four years, with a PENSION? Who gets pensions anymore? I surely do not. Get off the cross already...
WE NEED UNIONS.....IF YOU HAD A UNION AT YOUR JOB.....YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS...
i love the idea of SEPTA patrons 'striking' for at least a day once the strike is over.
everyone deserves to be treated fairly... septa, how are you treating your riders fairly by a 3am unannounced strike? cut off your nose to spite your face while you're at it.
It should be very easy in this economy to fire and replace these overpaid undereducated peasants.
I support the strike. I wish I could strike at my job now. I have a master's, work for the city and make less than $5k/yr. What a joke!
Fire...every...striking...union...worker...TODAY. Their unskilled labor is easily replaced in today's unemployment market. Unions are a disgrace and so too are the filthy politicians who dance with them- Obama, Biden, Brady, Rendell....
People calling for replacement of the transit workers due to high unemployment need to look back into history whwn unions started, They fought for 40 hr work weeks,workers compensation (so if you got hurt on the job you could not be fired)child labor laws (which removed children from the work force allowing more adults to work)etc..Union wages also keep non-union wages and benefits more competitve. the big problem is people are willing to sell themselves short for lower wages and NO benefits
Unions are a good theory good wrong. just like most things in this world. Give people an inch and they take a mile.
Maybe SEPTA should give in to their demands and then when oh around Christmas, layoff thousands.
I'm sorry driving a bus might be a hard days works, but $52K plus some raise each year is not a bad deal at all if you only have a high school education. Septa workers what would your alternative job be if you were laid off? Do you think you could find anything else makeing $52K a year with the benefits you have with your skill levels. Put on a resume "Bus Driver" and see how much money it gets you. The contract offer you guys had was quite a decent deal. And to all of you looking at the MTA, well they just had a $2.3B budget shortfall they had to tax their way out of. And plus NYC serves 5x the amount of riders than SEPTA, so they get paid more.
This is ridiculous and all greed. A lot of us to get to have raises this year or next or who knows when we will. They should be greatful to have a job in the economy. The union is opportunistic and Philly should bring people who want to work who have been out of a job for a year to drive the transit. I am sure they would be glad to have a job and get rid of the damn union. The only thing good about a union is that they make themselves look likes a**es and just provide more proof that the city would be better without them!
"People who don't understand what is going on should keep their mouths shut." You mean the taxpayers who fund these lowlife, ungrateful fools, which presumably includes an idiot like you? Drop dead, clown. We foot the bill and will say what we please on the situation. Union nazis...
Lovely photographs. Are those union "workers" violating any codes by burning wood in open containers?
Unitygirl, I respect anybody's right to make a decent wage. However, you point out that the "low man" gets the blame, well believe it or not, everyone above you has already gotten the blame before you. Also, SEPTA is a service organization. They provide a service for which the public pays a fee. Therefore, the public is the customer and in case you haven't heard, the customer is always right. I don't use public transportation in this city because it is expensive, the service is lousy, the drivers are rude, the equipment is dirty. Bear in mind that most working people, myself included, did not receive any increase in salary this year. In addition to that, my expenses and deductions have increased. As a result, I am taking home less money this year than last. If you want sympathy, look to each other. You won't get it from the riding or driving public.
Sorry, I have no sympathy for the SEPTA workers. Half of you sit in a booth all day long and take money, my cat could do that AND give change and sell tokens too. Everyone else is biting the bullet these days, why shouldn't SEPTA workers do that too? The average SEPTA salary is twice what I make AND they get a pension and cheap health care. These uneducated slobs should be happy they have a job, not striking because they want more money. I will now forever boycott SEPTA. I will walk, take a taxi or drive. I am not giving any more of my money to a bunch of spoiled, greedy jerks.
People getting salaries don't realize how ridiculously boned they are when they don't get overtime especially when they feel that they are lucky to be graciously allowed to work 60 hours a week for the privilege of having that job. SEPTA's union is strong and it works for the collective whole. Don't get butthurt because your union doesn't serve your economic needs or because you opted to go into a field where it's every man for himself and everyone verse God.
On election day no less!
Three words - MORE BIKE LANES!!
Put out the stupid burn barrel fires. Doesn't Fire Code Section 307 and Air Management Code Section 3-202 apply to these idiots. Let them seek warmth and comfort in the misery of others.
When will Philly ever stop the Union grip - these guys and ladies make way to much money for doing nothing and most of bosses live th e high life. Also why do they keep the city captive whille they charge different prices in the suburbs where most of them live. During a time when most people i know have not gotten raises in over two years or havent worked this is just plain greedy - i say fire them all and start over
After 4 years they make approx $50,000, pay only 1% of their health premium and they want a 4% raise for the next 4 or 5 years and no increase in their portion of health benefits. Please union, smell the roses in the real world. Most people are not getting any raises and pay anywhere from 30% to 50% of their health premiumsl.
A barrel fire right on a city sidewalk?! Call the fire department!!! That is illegal and if they light another one they should be put in jail. UP YOURS UNION.
THE AVERAGE SALARY FOR THIS UNION IS $51,000. GET BACK TO WORK YOU BUMS. There are people lined up to take your jobs. This is ridiculous and a total abuse of power by a crappy transit system to begin with.
Bring on the rats! BUST THE UNION! Stay strong Mayor Nutter the city is behind you on this one.
Public support for these clowns = zero point zero.
I say fire them all, I'm sure there are 5,500 people out of work in the Philadelphia region who could use a job!
The woman quoted in the article states she has to pay more for her benefits, and is proud she weakly stands by as it happens? We need more strikes not fewer, when did we Americans become so afraid and accepting? If you want better pay, work conditions, etc, demand better work conditions.
Union SCUM! I hope you and your families starve to death.
Funny how they didn't strike until right after game 5 of the World Series. Now that it won't be a national story to embarass the city, they strike.
I work in the corporate world. I have not seen a 4% raise in three years. In 2010 I will have to pay double for my healthcare than I'm paying now. We are in a recession. People are losing their jobs and these idiots think they can hold the working citizens of this city hostage. You should be happy to have a job and a health care plan that most people would take in a heartbeat. STOP BEING SO DAMN GREEDY. Get back to work. I'm a Democrat, and I'm all for a fair wage for an honest day's work, but this is ridiculous.
greed greed greed. laziness, selfishness, and greed.
Too bad SEPTA's customer aren't in a position to BOYCOTT....or are you? Hmm...
I do not feel sorry for these losers. I haven't gotten a raise in a year and a half and my health insurance went up. There are enough people out of work, start training them now, fire all the SEPTA transit workers and replace them with the trainees. Most of the transit workers are ignorant anyway.
In this day and age it is time to take the right to strike away from these unions. They are not being unfairly paid as they were at the turn of the 20th century. They are receiving a pay and benefits that is well beyond what many Americans are able to earn. It is time to change the constitution and eliminate the strike threat that these unions have. Call your congressman, your senators, come on America its time to stand up to these brazen bullies.
Well, at least we won't have to worry about dodging SEPTA buses running red lights for a little while.
Only the members of Congress and the Pope have a better medical plan and benefits than the SEPTA workers. They get all the Viagra they can scarf down for free! Come on guys, get out of bed and drive those busses!
Why does SEPTA strike twice a decade? I can understand once maybe even twice but every 3-5 years they have to go on strike? So the contract is good for 3-5 years but then they are so underpaid and under covered? Doesn't the union read the fine print when they seal the deal every 3-5 years? You have to account for the future but they will do the same thing again take the going rate then in another 3-5 years strike again and the people in the area will bite the bullet. In my opinion SEPTA is a city service and city services shouldn't be allowed to go on strike. Just imagine if the fire or police department went on strike, now imagine if they go on strike every 3-5 years.
I like the idea of unions, but I think some categories of workers are overunionized. Unions should not be allowed to strike if their workers already make plenty of money and get decent benefits. However, if workers are downtrodden and make, like, $6-8 an hour, and are part timers, etc., they ought to be allowed to strike. Nonetheless, transit workers are a special category because transit is important to many people other than the unions and their employers. Transit workers should be allowed to bargain in some system of checks and balances with their employers, but not actually to strike. The reason is cuz people need to get around.
Unitygirl you are correct Miss. the low man on the totem pole aka the average driver or track labor, Maintenance crew worker is getting screwed. the battle for public support has started.
BIKE THE STRIKE!!
To the union: It was mean and stupid to strike on Election Day and threaten to strike during the World Series. The airheads in charge of your union should've known better than that. Who knows, it might affect my vote for governor or some other position.
This union truly is delusional. Is there a way to just fire them all? THen the inconvenience would be worth it. There are plenty of people looking for work? And who the hell gets a pension anymore anyway?
Dear SEPTA,
Welcome to an economy where most people are thankful to even HAVE jobs. After 4 years in undergrad and 3 in graduate school and incurring nearly $100,000 in debt, I'll still be lucky to make anywhere near the salary of the average SEPTA worker. I want you to consider all the people in this struggling and barely getting by on half your wage who depend on you to get to their jobs, jobs they appreciate.
All your whining, crying and picketing gets NO sympathy.
At least riding bikes has just become a lot safer.
Why does the city recognize these unions? Fire them all. Hire new workers on individual contracts for $12/hour. Problem solved.
Why does the city recognize these unions? Fire them all. Hire new workers on individual contracts for $12/hour. Problem solved.
I say boycott. Let them get their contact, then bam, the only people riding will be the school kids. We need to hurt them where they will feel it, in their pocketbooks.
Alot of people out there are looking for jobs, start filling those 5,550
Get back to work ya jerks.
I really want to support the Union in this, but I just simply cant. They turned down an 11% wage increase over the life of the contract, plus no changes in health benefits???? If that is correct, all I can say is are you kidding me with this? What the heck is wrong with that offer in these economic times? Further, the amount of damage they will do to other residents in this city is immeasureable. The Union was in the drivers seat here and they blew it!
Please STAY ON STRIKE!!!! The roads are nice and clear, and it's easier to get around. I love it! STRIKE FOREVER!!!!
Anyone who talks about "corporate greed" does NOT know what they're talking about. SEPTA is NOT a corporation, people! It is a public agency for God's sake! It is essentially a NON-PROFIT organization! Please, please, stop sounding like an idiot and get your facts correct.
As I write this my wife's company JNJ has announced that they are going to lay off 7% of their worldwide staff. A friend of mine texted me that his company Citizens Bank might be up for sale due to the poor loans that they made and that their would be job losses their too. I would tell all of the union workers find a way to prevent losing your job. Whenever I or my family have had the opportunity to take SEPTA I have had no problems with any of the workers I deal with such as the ticket takers or bus drivers. Again, I would tell any SEPTA workers compromise
do they think this will get them sympathy? i saw the deal they turned down on the tv news. better than many of us are getting at our jobs. times are hard, or hasn't the union noticed?
do they think this will get them sympathy? i saw the deal they turned down on the tv news. better than many of us are getting at our jobs. times are hard, or hasn't the union noticed?
So sick of the Unions... Given the way the economy is, there are a boat of people who would be willing to take over these strikers jobs and be HAPPY TO HAVE A JOB!!!
For everyone saying this is an unskilled position...I think driving a bus with all of you a-holes on it is very skilled. Uh, and get a clue, the MECHANICS are included in this union...Diesel Mechanics are certainly skilled employees! The union gave up its bargaining chip to accommodate the world series, they got you all home from the game and now they have the right to strike. YOU were all warned last week this could happen and if you didn't make a plan, that's your fault. Plus, the math here is skewed...If SEPTA is asking for no increase for the first two years and a 2% increase the following two, how can it be an 11% increase overall? Also, Inky fails to state that the supervisors and top employees were given 3% raises without question. Who would you rather see compensated for their hard work? the actual workers (drivers/mechanics) or the department heads? I am not a union member, I received a very small raise and I am hurting in this economy. The union is doing its job and they have my full support!
This strike is very frustrating to 234 members. We don't want to hurt our riders and we certainly don't want to lose our paychecks.
We don't know what to believe. We hear management telling the public that ridership has fallen, but that's not what we see with our own eyes. Many of us also disagree with the tone of the rhetoric coming out of the union leadership (maybe that's just politics), and would like to see more specific elaboration of the issues.
The issue I really want to hear about is where all the money spent on litigation is going. It's about a third of SEPTA's budget and it would be great to explore how well, or not so well, that money is being spent. We always hear about how easy Philadelphia jurors are with handing money to plaintiffs when everyone knows they are lying about their injuries, but what about SEPTA handing billable hours to law-firms with a wink and a nod?
Here's a question I'd like an answer to: How much money does SEPTA spend on legal fees to outside law-firms and what connection, if any, do these firms have to our board-members? SEPTA is paying some people very well. We union members are confronted with complaints about our hourly rates when outside lawyers receive ten times as much per hour for getting mopped up by crooked doctors and lawyers-- who also are paid a lot more than our drivers and our mechanics. If our equipment failed as dismally as our lawyers, nobody would ever get anywhere using SEPTA. Perhaps there would be more money for our contract if there were a bit more transparency and accountability on the matter of where almost a third of our budget is spent.
I am a SEPTA driver and I understand why ppl are upset as they should be but when you only get one side of a story you tend to side with the side you only hear you never heard that when the union first asked to talk to SEPTA they said we are not going to talk to you right now we don't care if you don't have a contract. So they waited months then later they said this is what we are going to give you no raise and you have to pay more for insurance and work rule changes. Now this is supposed to be a negotiation. Now a raise is not a big deal 3# is only like. 50 cent. Now they want us to pay more for insurane and no raise so inreturn we make less money cause we are now paying more for insurance. We are at the bottom in SEPTA and driving for SEPTA is not a regular job we don't work regular hours like everybody else sometimes that operator taking you to work or school is that same operator taking you home a lot of odd hours. We are at work more than at home the divoce rate is high because of the hours they can and will make you work six days and will hold you for 12 hours. The only reason that we are striking is after game 5 of the World Series SEPTA stopped talking they had nothing to lose. You should stop and look at both sides. Did you ever hear how much the ppl in 1234 market street make twice as much as a driver with better retirement and medical coverage package. If SEPTA cared about us if they cared about you a contract would have been done before this one exspired.
Just last night I decided to put aside buying a car and "tolerate" Septa for another year so I could save for something new instead of used. Today, uh-uh. I'm getting a car, and I won't ever use Septa again. I just moved back from Portland, OR where they have the best transit system in America - a strike would NEVER even be discussed. Septa is pathetic.
I find it highly ironic that Ms. McClary is complaining about her benefits costs being doubled, when she works in the very industry that is causing the problem (health insurance). I also find her declaration that SEPTA needs "competition" ironic -- that is precisely what IBX and all the other insurers need.
To those who defend SEPTA employees by reminding us of how hard it is to drive a bus, turn a wrench, deal with customers, etc; REMEMBER: wages are not necessarily determined by the difficulty of the job! Rather, wages are like prices- they are dictated by supply and demand. Hard job or not, SEPTA's workers are unskilled. Guess how many unskilled and unemployed workers we have in this city? Do you think the city coule fill a bus driver's job for a lower price? Of course they could... A lot lower, in fact (because of high demand for jobs)! That being said, for SEPTA workers to strike after modest concessions is a slap in the face to the city! Fire Them all!
SEPTA union: a magical fantasy world where you can make $50,000 plus full benefits plus a pension driving a bus, and have no education whatsoever, very little experience, and no marketable skills. Wow. Maybe it's time to join reality with the rest of us?
there is simply no way a septa bus driver should make more than a public school teacher in this city, what a joke.
So much for all those bragging headlines yesterday about how the governor and mayor had averted a SEPTA strike! I wonder if the politicians lied or if the reporters got it wrong... or both.
Strike at 3am??????? What a bunch of a-holes. At least give people a chance to make other arrangements. News Flash TWU, the MAJORITY of the U.S. did not get raises this year. This is quite possibly the most selfish act I have ever seen.
The fact that they went on strike this morning is ridiculous. No one in this day and age is getting that kind of annual salary increases. Additionally, why the hell should the bus drivers get better pay if they don't even know their routes and get lost going from 30th Street Station to Wissahickon Transfer Center?
Let's see...The SEPTA workers were asked to and continued to work during the Phillies game. The politicians did not want to be embarrassed and the TWU saved them from the humiliation. Now, the politicians renig on the workers! I am in total agreeance with this strike. No, I do not have a car and yes, I was stranded like everyone else. How dare we as people take away or judge workers for trying to maintain their benefits and increase one's way of life? America is suppose to be the land of opportunity. What gives any of us the right to judge? I am proud that these workers are fighting for what is owed to them. If these blogs are an example of the type of riders these conductors, drivers or mechanics & machinists encounter, then I say the TWU needs to raise the bar and ask for much more! If there were more unions then less rights would be violated. Nonetheless, here is a modern day caste system at work. The common-folk suffer while the nobles continue to prosper.
Strike at 3am? Who are you hurting? Just average Joe trying to do the same work as you. Thanks for working for the weekend Septa so that the city leaders wouldn't be embarassed by a Septa strike during the World Series. Get back to work. Your demands are unreasonable in light of these economic times. Would I want to drive some of these buses? No. Would I for the amount of money they get paid?Probably for my family. As far as their superiors making these decisions for them--shabby timing. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Someone could really come along with a better way than the crappy operation you run. Bus drivers are supposed to stop for people not try to outrun them. Your people all need a class in etiquette. Of course you have some exceptional people--but the lazy ones truly outweigh the good ones. Get rid of the waste, get back to work or this strike may doom you. Riders are fed up with Septa.
I think SEPTA needs to refund me 1/30th of the value of my transpass for every day this strike drags on.
Willie Brown has made a huge mistake. The Union has an inalienable right to strike but, to do it at 0300 leaving SEPTA riders without any forewarning and scrambling for a way to work is unconscionable. His action will leave SEPTA riders, who are daily confronted by churlish drivers, a reason to back management no matter how incompetent they are. As a former union officer (not SEPTA) I would suggest their union hire new advisors/lawyers and vote at the next election to remove their current officers. This type of action is the reason our country's private-sector unions are at their lowest membership since 1945. Study the history of the UAW in Detroit and learn.
Get rid of them. Uneducated and unskilled workers should not be compensated as well as they are, anyway. I am sure all of these bus drivers and subway operators could quit and get great paying jobs tomorrow (sarcasm)!!!
It's time for Septa management to declare the negotiations "concluded" so they have the legal option to fire at-will. At that point, without a contract, after negotiations have failed and are concluded, Septa is an at-will employer, and it's time for some terminations of the employees who won't accept Septa's very reasonable terms. Septa has a duty to do this not because it is "greedy," a ridiculous assertion, but because it has to consider the rider as well, who needs Septa to spend money on other things besides it's spoiled, overpaid, overcompensated blue-collar, low skilled employees. Let's call a thing what it is!
i hope that greedy union gets busted wide open...what a disgrace..ANOTHER STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The drivers at the airports all over the country start at less, and pay more for their health and benefits plans. I have asked Septa employees what is going on, and some have been very candid with me. They say they know they have good salaries, and that most people pay a higher percentage of their pay to health and pension benefits, whether private or union, but that they pay "huge union dues" and expect the unions to get something for that. At the time, I was confused by what this employee was saying. They pay huge union dues and must pay them, with no way to opt out, and so they feel coerced to strike for higher than average pay and benefits, and expect the union to compensate them in these gains over what it takes out of their paycheck. This is just unsustainable, and it's not genuinely fair and good labor practice.
By the way, isn't the purpose of a strike to inconvenience the majority to increase the demand of services. Why is everyone so shocked that SEPTA went on strike at 3a.m.? They were used! Honestly, they should've went on strike over the weekend. The ball was in the TWU's court at that time. The politicians new they were going to bamboozle the TWU. So, the only way for TWU to gain leverage was to catch them with their pants down. Ah, what do you know? If you are angry, then the TWU made a good call regarding how they went on strike.
The least they could have done was given the commuters enough of a warning before striking. A 3 a.m. walkout with no warning was not fair to the many who depend on SEPTA. People shouldn't have to scramble at the last minute to get to work, or get their children to school. They should have given a full day's warning before taking action. Overall, I don't think they should be allowed to strike. Well, the good news is that SEPTA workers and their families have no health insurance beginning today and won't get it back until this BS strike is over and they're back on the job.
As much as the union tries to portray itself as the champion of the working man, it's simply a private club that wants to keep its member’s wages high and ensure generous union dues continue to flow in. Septa workers are paid an excellent wage considering their education and skill level. And, I have no problem with that. More power to them to get as much as the market will bear. But, stop the charade of pretending that they want jobs for all. This is simply an issue of supply and demand. And, in this market the chips lean toward management’s side of the table. I hope they throw political caution to the wind and bust the union. Unfortunately, that won’t happen because Septa is essential a gov’t beholden organization and with Democrat power firmly entrenched the only losers in this game will be the taxpayers and Septa customers.
Willie Brown is the picture of the stereotype Septa employee -- not very educated sounding, apt to cite race out of the blue for his grievances, engorged with his power and idea of his self worth, not one to over-exert himself if it cuts into snack time. Come on. This is the kind of employee that needs to be cut to just save the health plan. He's a walking coronary/stroke/kidney transplant-hypertension/sleep apnea/diabetes complication. These folks don't understand what they need to do as individuals to get and keep a job. First, you have to be basically healthy and take good care of yourself, or no normal employer will hire you.
Septa is clearly mismanaged and the cost to ride public transportation in this city is astronomical. However, think of it this way. You trust your life in the hands of the bus drivers and train and trolley operators. Wouldn't you want them to make as much money as possible and be happy?
The Unions just don't get it---- Most of us pay at least 20% towards healthcare and have had a pay reduction this year. Seriously, wake up! And if the Lawmakers cave in and give them what they want then VOTE them out.
Stand strong, workers! Your fight is all of our fight! It takes a little spark to light the fire--we support you.
What the paper doesn't cover is that Septa is not beholden to the union. Septa management has rights too. Remember Reagan and the Air Traffic Controllers Union? They struck, shut down air travel, and were all terminated, and the resulting court case reset labor law. PA is an at-will state, so long as Septa declares negotiations are finished. It's time. The lawsuit will lose, and be cheaper than the cost of salaries and benefits. Hire new blood. Now is the time to get great drivers and transportation workers from all over the country.
Unitygirl I read your letter and if they are the only problem with your job I'll take it. I work in a apartment building doing building maintenance and we get blamed for stuff that is out of our control all of the time.I bet that you make more money than I do and have better benefits.
SEPTA employees make twice what their work is worth. They're easily replaceable, easily trainable, and many of them have simple, mindless jobs. The fact that they can make $40-50k a year, while people with similar skill levels can barely get jobs is ridiculous. There are exceptions within the organization of course, such as the mechanics and certain maintenance crews, but the drivers, cashiers, and everyone involved in customer service are jokes. We'd be better served by immigrants who don't speak the language than the people we are served by. Greedy unions are the downfall of this city.
What do you mean "surprise" strike?
----Um fire them all. Use the state funds to build more parking lots and widen roads. Then create a solar powered light rail system.
For them to think they are hurting SEPTA by striking at 3am shows how stupid they are. They only ones they are hurting are the people they should want on their side. That would be the riders. What about the person unemployed for 6 months that had a job interview this morning and his only transportation was SEPTA? The union sure showed them who's in control!
Wow, bus drivers only make $20 an hour? That seems light considering the responsibility of the job. (and the tedium of it). Perhaps SEPTA should just let them take tips. Lord knows the bag guys at the airport probably make $100 a hour.
FIRE them. Bring in the National Guard to drive the buses as we train new drivers.. With this economy they should be glad to have a job.
How do unions expect us to be sensitive to their issues, when they choose inconvenience citizens during one of they biggest economic downturns in decades. That is just plain greedy.
fire them all and bring in 1,000's of new jobs when do I start?
This entire country is in a downturn, people are getting laid off, pay cuts, reduced benefits, and are all around doing poorly. This, of course, to the TWU means they deserve more money. People who spend 4 years in college are making less than the people who spent a month in on-the-job training (which they were PAID for). There are thousands of eager, willing, and hard working candidates out there just WAITING for a chance at these jobs. Give the jobs to them!
There are some people who've been laid off or not hired in Philly now who have college degrees, and families, who would gladly work for Septa as a driver, or start as a mechanic. The mechanics at Septa, I don't think people know, we are not talking about jobs that are all automotive. Some are just repairing token machines, turnstyles, collecting money/money handling -- it's not a job that requires high skills, even experience. And these are good jobs. All Septa has to do is put out one advertisement, and they'll be bombarded with takers. If the union is going to play dirty, management can hire outside the union.
You know, the only thing I really blame the union for is doing it in the middle of the night (so hopefully they'll spare us they "we care about the riders" nonsense). In Philadelphia, empowered by their Democrat cheerleaders, unions tend to get whatever they want so why not ask for the moon? Septa management needs to stand strong, and local voters would do well to consider the disproportionate power of unions here when in the booth today, or it's just a matter of time before we go the way of Detroit.
SEPTA Union Leaders are thugs..............Goons be goons
Septa takes taxpayer money in exchange for the services they provide to the city residents. The city needs to prevent them from striking and show up for work during contract disputes just like the cops and firemen. If not, then pull public funds. I stopped taking Septa a long time ago and only use their services as an absolute last resort. I personally wish that there was a way to ensure that none of my tax dollars went to them. How greedy can you get?
People, you can't justify these over-priced salaries and tiny, insignificant benefits contributions by employees. This comes out of the cost to the rider. This is why Septa stops smell like urine. Do people ride the BSL? It's like the "Taking of Pelham 1-2-3" and I mean the original version from the 70s. It's NASTY. Where are all these high-priced Septa employees when it comes to basic cleanliness? Septa in the city has THE dirtiest cars of ANY public transit I have ever taken in the US or in another country. PERIOD. DC, Chicago, San Fran, Boston, NYC, Paris, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, all of these cities have cleaner, larger, systems with better service and few lines. You never wait to buy a ticket. You never see a dirty car or platform, or smell human waste. Come on. Septa's union employees can't bend over? Can you imagine Willie Brown being able to bend over, much less willing, to pick up some trash? Not on your life.
Stand strong for the public, SEPTA management! I wish the management best of luck.
The unions gave NO notice of the strike. That would not happen in another other city, state, or country in a major public transit union. That is the caliber of the people we're dealing with here. Fire at-will, Septa. Time to get work ethics on board.
TWU is in the right. Who are the politicians kidding, we saw this coming. The union agreed to hold off a strike and continue to bargain in good faith until the world series is out of town. Then the [politicans start witholding info. This could have been averted if the managers were just honest. We all know they are making significant cash with additional ridership going up since the beginning of the recession. Just be honest Mr. Rendell and Mr. Nutter. You knew what you were doing, don't blame the union for going out unexpectedly, YOU DID THIS GENTLEMEN.
Anyone who does not show up for work should be fired!!
My sympathy to all the riders. My experience growing up in Philly and living in various other cities is that SEPTA drivers are the WORSE in the country!!! They are rude, obnoxious, and an embarrassment to Philadelphia. This surprise strike is just another example why SEPTA should get no federal funding!!! Things like this are why I am glad I moved to the West coast!!!
Anti-worker sentiment is strong in Philly. Luckily these transit workers understand the struggle! To the other workers bashing them; you're on the wrong side, putting yourself in a group who exploit your labor. Think about it and challenge yourself; talk to some transit workers on strike, ie, your fellow workers. Show solidarity and when your time comes to stand-up and fight for respect in your workplace you will have the same support from your fellow workers. If SEPTA fires these workers, do you honestly think the new hires will be treated with respect, a living wage and benefits we all deserve? Take notes, let it be a lesson on how to change your own workplace and stand up for the wages and respect you know you deserve. Otherwise you are racing to the bottom (minimum wage is just that, the minimum). Raise your standards! instead of complaining that others make more than you. Use the transit workers struggle as leverage to make Philly a better place for ALL workers--including yourself!
Wake up everyone. This is America in the 21st century. It has come to this - we go to whatever means necessary to look out for ourselves. hence the srike. No one - Not Unions, Not Corporations, not government agencies -is concerned about the common man. We are all just pawns in the game.
No college degree. No college debt. 50K+ by age 22 if you started at 18. Miminal health care contribution plus pension plan. And recourse if you get fired.
College degree. 150K plus in debt. Engineering degree. 50K at 22. Huge health care contribution. No pension. At will employment.
I guess there's no reason to get an education.
In these times everyone wants and need more money.Is there any consideration for the disabled,the elderly or the hard working people who once were told public transportation would be and is the perfect way to get around in a major metropolis.If septa would stay on the job,more revenue would be made to help with their cause.
All of the arguments on this board seem to resolve around the wages of these workers and what everyone else isn't making. Would these workers have these wages and benefits without fighting for them. Maybe these unemployed and underemployed people everyone keeps spouting off about need to reconsider their employment or get a union to fight for better wages. And why do the drivers and mechanics have to be unskilled and uneducated. I know lots of drivers who are highly educated but chose to drive the bus for one reason or another. No, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do these jobs, but it does take someone to do it. Also, for all of the unemployed workers who would gladly do this job for less should apply as Septa always has these positions posted on their online job board. The number one reason most people can't get hired is that they fail the drug test. And I also love how the drivers are always blamed for everything that is wrong with Septa. While this maybe normal because they are the only ones the public normally comes into contact with, they only drive the bus following the rules and regulations that was taught to them in training. We seem to forgot the most important things when things start going wrong. It's okay for upper management at Septa to drive S class Mercedes, receive raises and bonuses in the form of hundreds of thousands, but the lowly uneducated, unskilled workers should be happy with whatever is given to them because it's happening everywhere. Let's wake up and stop drinking the kool-aid. No one is mad at Septa officials for making money(because they have college degrees and only people with degrees deserve to make a decent living)or the mechanics who are also on strike, but at the bus drivers because they actually drive the bus. That's why the rich keep getting rich and the poor stay poor because we bring each other down. Crabs in a barrel!
Rendell's question points to the problem. As a democrat, he should be ashamed of himself. Workers all across the land have seen their wages fall, hardly rise, during these last 10-20 years. Anyone who complains about a SEPTA worker making too much perhaps should go straight to their bosses office and ask for more. The workers have been fleeced for a long time. Thank goodness for unions and that they stand up.
$51,000/year plus a pension for somebody with a high school diploma to drive a bus up and down the same street.
Let them bankrupt themselves and see what it's like in the real world.
The buses/trains/trolleys are old, the infrastructure is falling apart and the workers have horrible attitudes. Let Septa go bankrupt and allow a new company to take over the Phila transit system.
How about they fire all the Septa employees and give the jobs to those who would appreciate it. Some people out here are in need of jobs.
Guess what Septa union? I didn't get raise this year. I don't get a pension. I work long hours. My health benefit premiums went up this year. Wake up and join the real world. You are not special and do not deserve the salary and benefits you currently make. The only purpose of unions these days is to make people lazy and entitled. Fire them all and hire those who would actually appreciate a job.
Lets see when you have more attorneys on staff than maintenance workers you have a major problem. SEPTA has been in trouble for years with legal problems, being sued for the smallest issues. Why else did they call it the SEPTALOTTO?
I once saw Sandra Bullock jump a city bus over a 50ft gap in a highway. Being a septa employee isnt rocket science (unless there is a rocket ship i dont know about that takes people to work). Yea peoples jobs suck, but you are getting paid well, $50k plus on average, and not paying much for HC. Also i walked 3 miles across town this morning and it was quicker than taking public transportation. guess who is no longer taking the bus/el?! I just wish we were in FL so i wont have to freeze my testes off.
Get some monkeys from the zoo and train them to do those unskilled jobs. They'll be happy getting paid a banana an hour.
unitygrl,
Do you qualify for a real job, stop whinning and get one and see what we have to put up with. Maybe if you people would stop yaking with your friends you could get work done on time.
11% increase in wages and pensions and no healthcare increase?! Who even gets pensions nowadays? Gosh, I have a BS and I make as much as a bus driver without the benefits. I'm all for a fare wage for hard work, but this is crazy.
Hey unitygrl, I sympathize with your position and yes, Septa management and the board do not make an effort to create an actual partnership with either you or the riders. But sorry, sweetie, that does NOT exonerate the union! To pull this BS at 3am, to not make any but the most minimal attempts to inform the people of your postions and aggravations and respond in deeds to their own.
I think this is a disgrace, the way that they went about this was so wrong. People were left stranded and running around in the morning trying to find transportation. The news stated that the average Septa employee makes $52,000 a year, is insane. With the unemployement rate at an all time low. People should be happy to have a job.........
There are so many people out there looking for a job, and we not complain about making that kind of money. When will it end, they are always going to want more.
The union and all of its goons (many on this board) should be ashamed of themselves. The public does not support you. Period. Go see the Inquirer online poll "Should the union be allowed to strike?" 25% yes, 75% NO.
Pic, you are missing the point. The complaints that you are speaking on (raise, higher insurance cost, long hours, etc.) is being repeated across the country in various industries. I have a college degree. The company I work for recently laid off 30% of its staff. The ex-employees had vast years of experience, professional titles and advanced degrees, and spent years honing their skills. We have had a major increase in health insurance, no pension, and a recent freeze in raises. This is the nature of today's economy. Is it fair; no. And you want to talk about divorce rate? How about the divorce rate of our deployed troops? Try putting the needs of your customers FIRST!!!!! Your job and the long term health of Septa depends on it.
Fire them all, start over, just like the airlines did back in the day. Bet there are a lot of unemployed people out there who would love to do their jobs for half the money they make now.
The workers do not have my sympathy! On Election Day?! Yes, they wanted to strike. No contract? Get rid of them. Start training their replacements NOW.
The AP is reporting that the average Septa wage is $52,000 a year, which the article above glosses over. Here's the article: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOVDbR-4B-StiHNA5-peg2p1jSdAD9BO07V01
The only people the strike hurts are the commuters. Striking does nothing for their bargaining power. Get rid of them and replace the service. They're spoiled rotten brats who only do a mediocre job at best. In case they didn't hear, there are thousands of people looking for jobs who would gladly take a high-paying, low skill job with benefits. I will gladly walk 40 blocks every day until they get rid of these losers! MAYBE WE SHOULD BOYCOTT SEPTA FOR A FEW DAYS WHEN THEY COME BACK. WHERE DO THEY THINK THEIR PAYCHECKS COME FROM?
another reason why I love living in new jersey now
I used to be a hardcore, union supporter, but no longer, if the concern was standing up for worker's rights, how come the WORKERS have been totally disregarded! Hey SEPTA bus drivers, don't want to be blamed for every little thing on the job? Then behave like professionals and stop treating your passengers as if they're insects that bother you! I regularly encounter the rudest operators, it's hard to treat union members as if they're victims here, when you can get paid 50 thou a year and sit on your rear behind a booth taking fares because you're apparently too injured to drive a bus! Are you kidding me? Fire everybody and have them reapply for their jobs! That includes SEPTA management, the board, all of you wretches. You are destroying this city, and we should fight like mad to keep you from being successful!
Phillypapers-you are TOTAL JOKE
They are already paid well. My brother-who works in the private sector-has had his salary cut twice. I think your beloved SEPTA workers would go on a killing spree if that happened to them. I know they'd love to do that, judging by the sucky attitude problem many of them have.
SEPTA employees/management - you have to be completely tone deaf to strike in this economic environment. We are in the worst financial crisis of 70 years. What do I see you doing? WHINING about job rules, and your unfunded (and unsustainable) pensions. If I were you (making your salary) I would wake up every day and thank the good taxpayer/commuter of Pennsylvania for giving me a guaranteed for life job.
Let me tell you how the other half lives. Those of us without a union job are literally fighting day-to-day for our jobs and live with the uncomfortable reality that we could get cut tomorrow. We are working harder than ever, trying to save money for if/when we get laid off, etc., and voluntarily taking salary/benefit reductions. Again, GROW UP and live with the economic realities that the rest of us do.
This is embarrassing for the City of Philadelphia. We are letting these people run our lives. The news says the average Septa employee makes $52,000 a year, right now they should be happy to have a job. It was a little crazy getting to work and school but I say we should deal with it, and they will come back begging for a JOB!! If not the unemployment rate is at an all time low.. dont they know they can be replaced...
The Associated Press is reporting this: "Union workers, who earn an average $52,000 a year, are seeking an annual 4 percent wage hike and want to keep the current 1 percent contribution they make toward the cost of their health care coverage." And here's what they are striking over, kids: "Maloney said SEPTA was offering an 11.5 percent wage increase over 5 years, with no raise in the first year, and increases in workers' pensions." That's in the AP article. Will the Ink and DN cover this, and will it cover the rights of management to fire at will once a contract is declared dead and negotiations terminated? The two local papers have a duty to be impartial and reasonable. What journalist union would strike if the positions were reversed? The papers are not reporting the full succinct story. The union does not own Septa. Are the two local papers ever going to muster the intellectual honestly of reporting a critical story about a union? TWU would be a good candidate to start the new day, new way.
SEPTA should just do what the casinos did and hire new workers! Plenty of unemployed folks out there that would be happy for a job. It's time to show organized labor what's up people! Go Galt!
IT'S OUTRAGEOUS!! IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY, SERIOUSLY, WHO GOT PAID THAT MUCH IN THIS DAY AND AGE? I agree with what Gov. Rendell said and they STILL want MORE with an excuse "I WANT TO GET BACK AT THE BOSSES UP THERE 'CAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ABUSING US, THEY ALWAYS EXTEND OUR HOURS TO OPERATE, WE WORKED MORE THAN 12 HOURS A DAY, YOU KNOW HOW TIRED THAT IS... Read More?" omg, I would say to them "GROW UP!!! LUCKY YOU WHO GOT A JOB, THERE ARE MANY OF US WHO DON'T AND FAIL TO FEED OUR KIDS, YOU NEED TO REALIZE THAT!!! GOSH!!"
Daggett just voted for Corzine. I knew it!!!
Lady32 - who are these upper management who are driving Mercedes S class? Are you kidding me? This is a joke. The union is dragging the rest of the hard working Americans down. We all pay extra is taxes to prop up these SEPTA workers. The 'workers' such as myself would have more money if we weren't paying so much in taxes so that the TWU can have 4% raises and sweent health and pension plan. They are leaches!
It must be nice to be in a union and not have to worry about budgets or whether or not the business/company you are working for is profitable. Just keep demanding more!
Just Beautiful!-
Thanks a lot - Nice that they didn't inconvenience all the rich people going to the games -
why they would have had to pay for parking -
The Horror
Now How am I supposed to go out to get things like, I don't know - Food, medicine - you know things I need to Live??
I'd rather they would have struck during the weekend than now.
Septa can Rot as can Governor Rendell!
FIRE THEM ALL!!! Start over again with people who appreciate a day's wage, ANY benefits at all, and the satisfaction of a job well done. This is a concept apparently lost on the union and SEPTA. Both sides are wrong to some degree and both need to be punished for it. Fast Eddie, take to $80M back and tell them all to go to hell. Selfish, greedy, SOBs!!!!
Excuse me, but I was told by a SEPTA employee that they make roughly $20/hr driving a bus or train. Lets not forget the benefits and pensions. I make $8.75/hr and scramble to live. Most jobs start at $7.25. Excuse me for not being sympathetic while many college graduates can't even find a job in these hard times. SEPTA bus and train drivers simply get a CDL, not a BA. Cut their salary in half and I can guarantee you that you will still find other employees to fill their positions. WE ARE IN A RECESSION, BE THANKFUL YOU HAVE A FRIGGING JOB.
Shame on you SEPTA, your union and all of your workers! Have you no idea how many of us have taken pay cuts, have gotten NO raises or bonuses in over 2 years and still come to work every day!! And by the way, it costs us more now to participate in employer-provided group health insurance plans. Boo hoo that you your workers work a 12 hour day. I may throw up. There are many of us that work those hours routinely and work through holidays, our children's school programs and other family commitments. YOU MAKE ME SICK AND IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO STRIKE AND INTERRUPT COMMERCE. The rest of the working population should not be punished for greed and stupidity.
No one other than a union member would think they have even a remote chance of the ridiculous raises and retirement benefits these people want. Get real folks. We're in a 10 year climb back to where we were. Its time for unions to disappear. You are making the rest of us pay for your greed. We need jobs, too. we need more money, too. We need retirement and health benefits too. The only reason your striking is because you can and you believe you are protected from your jobs being taken. Guess again. Its the real world out there. Philadelphians will unite in their efforts to rid themselves of these regular occurances of inconvenience and dumping upon for your wishful dreams. Move over rover, there are multitudes willing to replace you with no expectations or guarantees of security.
Traveled extensively and SEPTA is by far the septic bottom of public transportation systems in this country. Workers showing up for work today unaware that their union even striked(according to article) is a microcosm of that incompetence.
Also glad I won't have slow ash buses in the way on city streets for the time being. woohoo
-not bob levy
Here's what Reuters is reporting, "Union representatives rejected Septa's offer of 11 percent increases in wages and company pension contributions over five years; no increase in employee health benefit contributions from the current level of 1 percent of pretax earnings, and a $1,250 signing bonus for workers, Williams said." The union is striking, because this offer wasn't good enough for them. Here's the article: http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5A235C20091103
Unitygrl - die
FishtownYo, so you think 52k plus a pension and benefits for a BUS DRIVER is not enough money? Thats more than teachers, many cops, many fire fighters, social workers etc...Yeah the wastes only from the top eh?
Why did I just read the term "gorilla warfare" in these comments? What next, a poster saying "for all intensive purposes"? In this world, stupidity prevails unfortunately and this strike situation is no different. It's 100% idiotic to expect a raise in this economy and even worse for SEPTA and the city to entertain the idea. Fire them all and start over again, plenty of folks would love a stable job making $14-18 and hour, which I vote as their new rates.
At least they waited till the World Series was out of Philly. Probably saved a few lives.
Fire the bums. What planet are they living on? How many of us have endured wage freezes, pay cuts, or lost our jobs? The union should be ASHAMED.
I'm annoyed they were offered such a good deal. 11% over 5 years! NO INCREASE IN HEALTH CARE PAYMENTS? Sign-on bonus?! Are you kidding me?! And these greedy idiots didn't take that. What is this?
martin710 they only go from one side to the other big deal
anyone who thinks or wants to try and do my job Septa.org were hiring. Applications are always looked at. The company gets $8500 per hiree, then they fire you to hire someone else to get more money. Where is it all going? Feel free to apply! :)
Unions are obsolete. It is not fair what they demand. Most of the workers are unskilled and have no right demanding what they are in tough times. Teachers working in the system make far less then these smucks. They have to put up with crazy circumstances in the schools of Philly. Thanks for screwing the people of Philadelphia. When you see the strikers, tell them to go to you no where.
SEPTA management should use this strike as an opportunity to take their last offer off the table. They should then put a new offer on the table which offers a 50% cut in pay and benefits. Outraged SEPTA drivers can then take their high school diplomas and GED's out into the job market. They will quickly find when they leave union fantasyland and enter the real world of 10% unemployment, that jobs are nowhere to be found, let alone jobs that offer rich pay and benefit packages. Once their homes are in foreclosure and they can't feed their kids, they will crawl back to SEPTA management and beg for their job back with a 50% pay cut. Just ask any of the tens of thousands of unemployed UAW workers if they would turn down a $50,000/ year job with great benefits.
I was raised in a union family, and there's a difference between ensuring fair salaries, and what's going on here. How many people today don't even have a pension? How many people haven't had to increase their share of healthcare? If what we've read is true, a far better proposal than I would've ever expected was offered and rejected. These are still tough times all around. If someone offered me an 11% increase over four years with no insurance increases, I would be thrilled. Shame on the union. Words I never thought I would say.
This is a blue collar city, and I think a majority of people are inclined to take the side of unions in many negotiations. I wonder how many people like me are re-thinking that now.
BREAK THE UNION! Calling a strike at 3 am with no warning to the innocent is UNFORGIVABLE!
"Now it's time to reward us," said Willie Brown. WTF?!!!!! Brown and the whole union are absolutely disgusting. I hope they get nothing but a pink slip!!!! "We took people to the game because we are professionals," he said. Well, I wish I could have commented earlier but I was walking TO WORK because you are "professionals" FIRE THEM!!!!!!
american3 Get real 50K for sitting driving a bus
the argument of "their jobs are hard" is childish. jobs are very often hard. this is why we are paid. you know who has a harder job and can't strike? a soldier. and i'm sorry, but every time i've had the misfortune to need to talk to a septa worker (driver or money taker) they are rude and impatient and have to be asked repeatedly before they speak. are there hard workers too? absolutely. but they are in the minority. this many people saying the drivers and fare collectors are surly can't be wrong. and election day?? come on.
Unions continue to ruin our country. They were great decades ago. Not anymore. We are competing in a global environment with countries that are not HANDICAPPED by unions. Replace them all!
Hire replacements and send the bums packing.
Fire...all...striking...union...workers...TODAY! And vote out all the filthy politicians which support unions.
Let the union die- I'll gladly walk in -12 degree weather until they can hire non-union replacements.
Fire them all. Start over. Septa provides the worst service possible. The WASTE at this agency is beyond comprehension. PLEASE, fire all the workers and let them crawl back on their hands and knees for $12 an hour, no pension, and pay in about $150 per month for health care like everyone else. Since when does a highschool diploma get you over $50K per year, huge pension, no cost health care, etc, etc, etc, oh yeah in Philly !
Poor SEPTA workers, sometimes they have to work 12 hours a day an only make $50,000 a year once they reach 4 years. I feel so bad for them... oh wait, no I don't. I've been in the Army 5 years, and when I was deployed in Iraq I made less than $40,000. And I worked 12 hour days minimum, mostly 14-16 hour days and a few 20 hour days, with no days off, in 125 degree weather, with people trying to kill me. But, you know what, they're right, SEPTA workers totally deserve to make more money than they are now. Right after they stop paying sports figures millions of dollars to play games and actually treat all of our men and women in uniform, military and police, they way they deserve.
Exhibit A on why Unions must go: "We agreed not to strike during the World Series. We took people to the game because we are professionals. Now it's time to reward us."
I want Somebody to go all Ronald Reagan on those Union Bums and Fire
them ALL! -
and this coming from a Democrat.
Then SEPTA might be able to hire people who appreciate their jobs.
Hey Unitygrl. The unions have done such a good job over the years of making it an us and them mentality versus well "unity" that they have put themselves in position to be treated as they are. and lets be honest, if you want to find miserable people and miserable service look no further than SEPTA.
SEPTA` union is corupt. They planned this all along. Its time for a new Tranportation co. Lose Septa. They dont care about the ppl at all. They want raises when others are losing their jobs. The union choose to strike not the workers. The workers wanted the package offered. BOYCOTT SEPTA.
Unitygrl
YOU HAVE A JOB for which you are already overpaid
You have health insurance basically for free
Get a life and live in the real world - bosses are not nice, we all have to do things we don't want to in order to keep our jobs, I'm tired of your sense of entitlement, the belief that you're entitled to a free ride. get over yourself. I hope they fire you all, I know quite a few people who are looking for work who actually have educations, know how to treat people, and would be grateful for the work instead of whining about every little thing.
They should all just be happy they have a job and get back to work.
I agree with what someone commented earlier, if they don't want to get back to work then fire em all and get new workers who will appreciate the jobs.
I have many family members working for Septa, but I'm sorry I don't feel a thing for them right now. I work for the federal government and I pay $200/mo for medical, not to mention my co-pay. WTF And on top of that I don't even think we (federal employees) are getting much of a raise, if at all. Why does the union pres think that Septa is exempt from feeling the bite of this recession. Yo, really stop playin!! We know he's living high on the hog, and missing no meals, just look at him. But he's hindering folks that HAS to rely on Septa to make their money. S-E-L-F-I-S-H!
People who don't show up for work should be fired. The era of unionism is over. I know too many people who would get on their hands and knees and beg for a job with salary and benefits like these yahoos already receive. Greed is evil. Unions are greedy. Unions are evil.
It is an odd argument many of you have, sounds like you are saying that you do not get paid much at your job so neither should they. I think you are projecting a bit. Maybe you should not tear other people down for something you don't have the balls to do yourself?
Unitygrl please shut your pie hole. My 11 year old arthritic dog can do what half the employees at Septa do. And he wouldn't be so demanding of his just reward. By the way you're not worth $52k a year! Firemen and police deserve those kind of benefits not you lazy good for nothing septa employees.
4% raise? LOL, get back on your bus and drive, idiot.
Karma for all the backhanded and employee-hostile actions taken by businesses over the past decade. Just like "capitalism" in america today means "get plucked", unions now are acting just as selfishly and irresponsibly as the corporate and financial leaders HAVE been. A pox on both your houses, go kill each other, you all suck.
Unitygrl no one is going to feel sorry for your union. You don't deserve the money and benefits you currently get. Nothing you say will change our minds.
Wah, they want me to pay more than 1% for healthcare. Wah, I want a 4% raise every year regardless if i deserve/earned it. Union members, welcome to the real world.
unitygrl, you just don't get it. It isn't just about you and your 'benefits' at Septa. This is about the unwillingness of you strikers to understand the reality of today's times. Working without a contract? And? No raises in the past 2 years? Really. You don't understand enough about operating costs to question whether or not Septa is being prudent. Philly is continuously decreasing in population; the people who can afford it move out (all races). Have you realized that Septa's ridership has decreased steadily. Your job is not tough. It doesn't require critical thought. You don't need years of training to do it. Outside of the bus drivers, you are not directly responsible for anyone's life. You don't generate money for your company (Septa) directly. The negatives of your job are experienced by everyone in customer service. You are not a cop, nurse, teacher, or a soldier; tell us, why are you complaining about $20/hr again?
I used to be a hardcore, union supporter, but no longer, if the concern was standing up for worker's rights, how come the WORKERS have been totally disregarded! Hey SEPTA bus drivers, don't want to be blamed for every little thing on the job? Then behave like professionals and stop treating your passengers as if they're insects that bother you! I regularly encounter the rudest operators, it's hard to treat union members as if they're victims here, when you can get paid 50 thou a year and sit on your rear behind a booth taking fares because you're apparently too injured to drive a bus! Are you kidding me? Fire everybody and have them reapply for their jobs! That includes SEPTA management, the board, all of you wretches. You are destroying this city, and we should fight like mad to keep you from being successful!
Stay strong Mayor Nutter...Fire their selfish lazy butts.....To the rest of us.....find another way...To those who drive in, find some others with no car and help them get into the city or to their jobs...a few extra minutes now will help solve those inconvenienced by the lazy greedy union folks.....This is the time to make the city stronger.....Help your fellow commuter.....and to the city, start hiring those who are unemployed and want to work.....Let the union losers realize what having a job means.....
They should have the Broad Street Subway & the Frankford El going. Things are toooo bad for people to lose work.
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They should be glad to still have a job. I know I didn't get a raise this year.
At least these SEPTA employees HAVE jobs! Asking for a huge raise in this economy is not only greedy, its laughable. 10% of Philadelphia residents are unemployed.
SEPTA workers, if you don't like the conditions of your job, or the salary, I would invite you to quit. There are thousands of hard working, unemployed residents who would give ANYTHING for the pay, benefits and job you all have now. If you think you can find a better gig in this economy, go for it!
And I'm sorry, unitygrl, but I have seen WAY too many SEPTA drivers cause accidents (or nearly cause accidents), cut divers and bikers off, run red lights and stop signs, and drive like total maniacs to believe that complaints against you guys aren't warranted.
Having my car hit by a Septa Bus, mirror broken, sued by passenger in a 1 MPH accident, I'm not having much sympathy for Septa Bus drivers...But I do support the union in that they have the duty to protect their members just like the execs protect theirs...Unfortunately the riders have to suffer. Just my two cents..!
The funny thing is, all the idiots here who are complaining that their salaries stink, therefore septa employees should also have low salaries are missing the point - those bozos are too stupid to understand that their livelihood and benefits and raises have been taken by upper manangement and their CEO precisely because they are cowardly little children who don't know how to fight for their fair salary. Instead, they take getting dumped on, and then complain because someone else has the guts to not be taken advantage of. Grow some stones yourself, instead of having your CEO bully steal your lunch money.....Fools.
Will they be driving the bus 11% better over the next 4 years??? Give them NOTHING. If they're still on strike by tomorrow FIRE EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM and start over. I love how the Union probably was hoping for bad weather this week so they'd get sympathy. NOPE. Usually they pull this when it's bad outside. MAYOR NUTTER AND GOVERNOR RENDELL - YOU WANT A MANDATE FROM THE PEOPLE, JUST READ THESE COMMENTS!!!!
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MAYOR NUTTER AND GOVERNOR RENDELL - IF YOU WANT A MANDATE FROM THE PEOPLE, JUST READ THESE COMMENTS!!!! Don't give into these crooked unions! BUST EM!
Point at Willie Brown, how else will he get re-elected union prez if it doesn't appear that he got the rank and file employee anything in their contract. The contract was signed and sealed by his handshake. TWU - find a new prez.
I support unions across the board. No way are the employees at the bottom rung of SEPTA the ones making the most money. Come on, people! It's the management! I agree that SEPTA is corrupted - at the top! The MFL, BSL and trolleys all come within five, six minutes. Buses get me all around the city, wherever I need to be. I go many places comfortably without owning a bicycle or a car. Philadelphia, you have a terrible reputation with almost everyone in the outside world because of all this complaining. Be glad the Phillies won last night and start targeting the REAL crooks.
@Alpha Centauri - your attitude show the real greed of the union "workers" - "They need to give the Union what they want,.." Sure, lets give the lazy, no good scum whatever they want. And FYI - no union employee will ever make more than I make in my corporate job. And I don't drag other lazy employees around on my merit - we get what we deserve and we earn it.
Every single one of you saying "I hate SEPTA!" and "Fire them all!" should be barred from public transportation.
Unitygirl...its employees with your mindset that has ruined companies and unions. Cry me a river....I bet you wouldn't last one week working at McDonalds. #1 you would have to stand on your feet, and #2 you would have to know how to count change. Both tasks, I'm sure you would find challenging. If anyone thinks that driving a bus is hard work then you need to find a new line of work. if anyone thinks driving a little electric train, or sitting inside a glass enclosed booth watching people go through turnstiles is hard work, then they need to find a new line of work. if anyone thinks checking transpasses as a conductor and occasionally counting out change for a ticket purchase is hard work, then they need to find a new line of work. Sanitation workers know what hard work is and they get half the pay. Driving a cap at night in the ghetto is hard work. Picking up dead bodies in the morgue is hard work. Being a school teacher in Philly's ghetto schools is hard work. Being a cop in the ghetto full of grown up crack babies is hard work. I would support any of these if they striked, but Septa workers, never, ever will I support nor appreciate those lazy, greedy bums.
I do not support the workers. The workers are greedy, selfish and short sighted. It should be illegal to cripple an entire city. The workers need to be fired, and new workers need to be hired in their place. In this economy, to cripple an entire city--to prevent people from going to their jobs--is a capital offense. The Governor and Mayor both need to over ride the transport union. Something very radical needs to happen. NOW!!!!!!!!
A message to those on strike: In the midst of a recession, people with good paying jobs and good benefits (far above and beyond what most others in and around the city have) are putting everyone else out. This is not good for Philadelphia, not good for Pennsylvania, and not good for the country. You folks get your jobs from septa, as a result of all the other hard working people who use it every day. Can you look at them with a straight face, and say "My 50,000 a year and good benefits aren't enough, so I'm going to take away your ability to earn a living for a while."
Congrats, septa workers, I've lost what little respect I had for you.
so there are 928,000 trips everyday that is a bus or a train going one way on its route - Yet there are 450,000 commuters left stranded. I have the solution - get each commueter a bus of their own there will be fewer bus train trips and everyone will will be happy Philadelphia will save 478,000 trips a day.
The point is whoever wrote this story did not check or think about the numbers they inserted - how can the numbers mean anything if they make no sense. even 450,000 trips with 928,000 commuters is 2 comuters per trip how much sense does that make??
Septa management,Gov. Rendel,Mayor Nutter,and Congressman Brady should pull every thing off the table and start over from the beginning. Cut the agree upon wage increase by 75%, cut the pension plan contribution, and increase the employee contribution to the medical plan. If employees don't like it they can quit and start a rickshaw company. They can then set comparable wages,and provide benefits that most people do not have.
Call in the National Guard. Arrest the strikers. In this economy, it ought to be ILLEGAL to cripple an entire city for the sake of a contract. The trasnit union's actions are negatively impacting the lives of millions of Philadelphians. Willie Brown needs to be tarred and feathered. There needs to be a revolution. Perhaos this mean strike will wake this city up--Septa is corrupt. Fire them all! Do it!
I just found out my health insurance costs are gonna go up 10% in January and I haven't had a raise in 3 years.
These fools spit on a guaranteed raise every year, guaranteed pension increases and a promise that their insurance costs won't go up.
And they have the NUTS to go on strike at 3am and whine about how they didn't get everything they wanted.
SEPTA is horrendous when compared to other cities, such as Boston, New York and Chicago.
I don't feel that people are suggesting SEPTA workers should get paid less because the rest of Philadelphia gets paid less. It's more of a comparison as to why they should be thankful for what they get paid for. We don't understand how people who make such a descent salary can demand much more. Anyone who makes more than me, CONGRATS. Hard work has probably paid off. SEPTA workers.... um what's their hard work? What have they done to earn 50k a year? Salary is usually based upon education, experience, dangerousness of job settings. Sure, some SEPTA workers are educated = $$, some have experience driving large machinery and have a CDL = $$, and the bus drivers are sometimes put in dangerous areas = $$. Most of them don't fall into those 3 areas. Explain to me why they deserve such a large raise? Anybody?
unitygrl, I can appreciate your predicament. However, if working conditions are as poor as you say, then leave. There isn't a gun to your head keeping you at SEPTA but I do think that the generous wages and benefits you get paid are what keep you there. The alleged poor treatment you receive from management is a small price to pay for the generous wages and benefits that any non-union worker would do just about anything for. The union needs a reality check, especially in this economy, be happy your job is secure and that you have a job. I'm sure there are thousands of people out of work right now that would take your job, at what your are making now, in a heartbeat.
For all of you who think were mindless drones, I have a BA. And take notice of all the negativity on here, We deal with this everyday without any support. I do appreciate my job and am very thankful for it, however that does not mean that I need to take a beating, from Septa or you. And for those that say I should die and others hope that our families starve, thats how we feel about you some days. Asking for a free ride because you don't have the money and us chancing being fired over this, but still doing it. We do have a sense of entitlement but thats soley on the fact that we, the hourly employees, fight for what is ours and you idiots take what your given. So the next time your mad because your late for work... leave earlier. The next time you don't have bus fare ... walk. The next time you see a bus driver tired, beat up, spit on or put down .. Step in. These men and woman forfeit time with family to ensure your safety, while no one ensures theirs. This is not about money, but protecting jobs from being out sourced. If others had stood up, customer service wouldn't be trying to help me from across the globe. Point fingers all you want, in the end Im gonna get mine. Don't be mad that we took a stand. Come walk in my shoes, see if you last for a day.
Well unionsupporter, Ive made my pledge to never ride septa again. I am all for supporting the "little guy", but in this case the "little guy" isn't the union, and I am not saying I support management either. The fact of the matter is every single other American has been sacrificing and struggling for the last year, why shouldn't the union members? I'll tell you why, because they are greedy, period. And their attitude! "We didn't strike during the World Series, so you owe us." Eff them. Like I said, never again will I ride septa, and I encourage everyone on here to do the same.
ride a bike
unitygrl obviously you are reading these posts because you continue to post your stupid comments. In the end you'll get yours? We're all hoping what you'll get is your pink slip. You do realize that once negotiations are declared OVER that SEPTA can and will fire all your dumb asses and get replacements? Your arrogant attitude isn't appreciated and nobody reading your posts is taking your side. Don't you get that yet? Oh, I forgot...I'm dealing with a Septa employee here.
Are you kidding me? NOBODY is getting raises in this recession and these yahoos are gonna walk away from that? Cut me a break. This was sneaky and selfish. Rendell and Nutter probaby threatened before because walking out during the World Series would be an embarassment, but as soon as it heads to NY, the union goes on strike?
Time for new public transportation in Southeastern PA!
I agree, very irresponsible. Nobody (at least not us common folk) is getting raises these days! Yes, we all know that times are tough and that most of our employers don't back us up and dump on us (unitygrl), but be realistic, times are tough all around. Most folks I know haven't gotten raises in years and forget pension contributions! Very irresponsible and sneaky, 3am, very sneaky indeed!
We are talking about a transit system that covers a HUGE area with some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in our country. America's productivity (read: septa ridership) has gone up tremendously in the past few years, and wages haven't moved. If the average American wants to LIVE the American dream instead of RENTING it, we need to get behind this union. Sometimes the leaders need to realize, you need workers more than we need you! This is just a classic example of how industry in America serves only the needs of the rich. Without hard working American's there would BE no rich people. Let's level the playing field a little and give these workers what they need. A LIVING WAGE! (And you conservative fools who hate unions, remember... your employment is AT WILL. Your job can dump you when you least expect it. Then you will come crying to the democrats and unions begging for help -- ITS INEVITABLE).
I do not feel bad for anyone on strike. We have gone through strikes and strike threats too many times for me to care. Most people have to contribute to their own retirement and most people have lost retirement money due to the economy. What makes these employees think that they are so entitled to everything? Many of these positions can be easily replaced by someone else. The workers are lucky they have a union because in the real world their butts would have been fired for walking off the job!
I'm an elementary school teacher returning from Tokyo, Japan after seven years. I've been applying to jobs for the past few months but have not received a single reply -- not even when looking for temporary jobs at Best Buy, UPS, restaurants, department store, etcetera. It seems like everyone is cutting back. I have no health insurance and no benefits. I sleep on a yoga mat on the floor of a friend's apartment. I have two hands, two legs, a strong heart and a sharp mind. I am college educated. I am eloquent. I wake up every morning at six AM, shave, shower, get dressed as if I were going to work... and then spend seven or eight hours searching for a job -- a minimum wage job, an under the table job, a job where the staff doesn't respect me... you know, ANY JOB.
After seven years in Japan, I am nothing but disappointed in the attitudes of Americans. I did not vote for McCain, but when he said we had become a nation of whiners, guess what? He was right.
You know how people work in Japan? They show up 30-45 minutes early (off the clock) to clean their workspace, get settled and start. If your job starts at 9, you're expected to BE SITTING AT YOUR DESK WORKING at 9. Not roll in at a few minutes past, start the coffeemaker, talk about what was on TV last night, moan about how tired you are and hide from the boss. When work 'finishes' in Japan at 6, most workers (from CEO to those in the trenches) end up staying another 1, 2, 3 hours, off the clock, to finish up. This is NORMAL in Japan. I hated it at first, but after several years I realized something about the Japanese that was lacking in Americans -- TRUST. They TRUST that if they're doing their jobs, most others are doing their jobs, too.
We are a fat, lazy, spoiled people and the reason we don't trust one another, nor give one another the benefit of the doubt, is because we know it's true and we are in denial about it.
You say there's a bus driver's strike in Philly?
Who do I send my resume to?
@unitygrl - are you effn serious? You complain because "These men and woman forfeit time with family to ensure your safety" - Family time? As opposed to the rest of the world who spend all day with their families instead of working? Its called a JOB! Everyone gives up family time when they go to work! Free rides? Don't give them. I would bet that nobody on this board is asking for free rides. Just because some bumb asks for a free ride, don't blame hard working people that just want to get to and from their job - which by the way they are still going to while you sit at home on your @$$! And if you have a BA and are driving a bus - you're wasting your education and I have zero sympathy for you.
Hugh, public transit in Boston is horrendous. Not only does it go exactly NOWHERE, it's slow, packed, and is not comprehensive in the least. And yes, I know someone who lives there who doesn't have a car. It's a pain. So get over yourself.
DarkKnight, I am overjoyed and hope I never, ever, ever meet you. Ever.
septa workers make more than city public defenders. what does that say about our city?
nowyouknow, you are an ignorant fool. Philadelphians are whiny rejects with a third-grade education - any thread on Philly.com proves that. I support TWU Local 243. If it weren't for unions we'd all be working for slave wages.
Unitygrl---you are a fool. Everyone who works takes grief for stuff all the time. No one likes it, but that's the way the world works. I'd like to see any of the union stiffs work in the corporate world for a week, where nothing is handed to them and have to pay for everyhting, and then see them whine and beg to go back to SEPTA. Imagine having to take all that nonsense and still have to pay for medical benefits and retirement. Quit whining and get to work.
Rendell is an idiot and needs to shut his mouth
Alpha Centauri -- I assure you I am most certainly not 'dumb'. I came back because my father has cancer and I wanted to be with him if anything bad happened. Unfortunately, you have only proved my point about us as Americans -- completely untrusting, nor willing to give others the benefit of the doubt. But, as you said, maybe I should just get a clue.
lol if your at work how are you commenting on this? lol are you using company time and money to complain about my job? I too get a day off and Im enjoying reading all the crazy comments you people write. I never asked for sympathy, I was just trying to give another prospective, but obviously our judgement of each other continues to be corrected. Ignorance is a beautiful thing. Do you need a ride home later? ;)
Well union, just by your response I am guessing you made it no farther than 7th grade? No wonder you support the union.
@unitygrl the truth of the matter is you guys are being greedy and abusing your power! wake up, this is the real world-i haven't had a pay raise in over a year and i pay 40% of my healthcare. what are my options? suck it up and work or find a new job. you guys are abusing the system. the vast majority of SEPTA workers are undereducated and rude. i've watched or experienced their attitudes countless times. if you are unahppy with your job then get another one. and good luck making $50k without a college education with another company. you've crippled the entire city, and caused a huge problem for the people who are actually willing to work. the entire country, even the entire world is in a state of economic depression. you took away our public transportation. it took me over 2 hours for my normal 40 minute commute today to my job where i have no pay raises, no 401k match, etc. boo hoo SEPTA. FIGURE IT OUT THIS IS AMERICA. i hope someday there is some type of competition or the city wakes up and just wipes all of your ignorant, ungrateful people out and starts over. we could fill your jobs in a week.
septa.org septa.org septa.org septa.org septa.org septa.org septa.org septa.org septa.org septa.org
Fire them all! There are plenty of people who would love to have these jobs considering what was offered.
Don't need a ride home ....I have a car...that I worked for. I would never depend on SEPTA for a ride becuase you've proven once again that you can't be trusted. Not everyone who comments here and doesn't work for the P-U-nion works 9-5.
sounds like unitygirl is choking on her horsehair weave while wearing chicken on her head.
Know what unitygrl, most have heard your perspective and don't find it valid. If septa workers were making like minimum wage paying 50% of their HC and not gettng a pension, I would have sympathy. But why should I "feel your pain" when you make more than most, pay less than most on HC AND get a pension. Most are lucky to get a 401k match, and pay 50% of HC. So don't sit there and act like you are doing the right thing, because your not. Do you think management cares about your strike? No. So who is this strike really hurting, you neighbors, friends and family. And to say people are only seeing one side is false. This paper has provided both sides fairly well lately. Maybe it's just that no one agrees with what your side is saying.
BTW unitygirl....a 'BA' (especially one in stupidity) is not worth the paper its printed on today, which explains that you can't do better than work at Septic.org
Time to make them an example for the rest of the unions. Fire them, all. It won't be hard to find willing and able replacements. The handful that are worth keeping can reapply for their jobs but will lose all seniority. This is a perfect opportunity to get rid of them once and for all.
Philly is overweight anyhow! Everyone needs to get out of their cars, and walk or bike to work. Oh yeah, and all those workers that work in the city and live in the burbs... They should be paying a commuter tax!!! People, like me, who LIVE in the city PROPER, have no problem with this strike. Actually, where are the picket lines... I think I may have to go out and stand with them! GO TWU!!!
$50K to drive a bus is absurd. Just the way 80K+ to put a nut on a bolt drove Detroit to the ground. 1% of health care costs? Who else gets away with that. And have you seen how obese the majority of these people are. Who's paying for that - US. An outrage!
ALPHA...you got it 40 oz. daawwwwg!
I agree with unitygirl.And if people want to do a comparison on wages for "Operators", they need to look at the larger cities to do do, not WALT DISNEY!! I wonder how long it took Rendell after the world seriers was over to leave negotiations yet him and Nutter are calling this irresponsible and outrageous. Please!!! Get your own City Workers and State workers together before you holler foul.What happens when Social Security dries up and we have nothing but our pensions to rely on? Oh right..lets not forget our trusty 401K or 401B. What a pathetic joke.Do the math folks. $100.00 for evry year only equals $2500.00 a month for a person that gives the Company 25 years. Now will that be enough to survive on in the year oh lets say um....2025? Stay strong SEPTA workers. All corporate eyes on you this go round. Do the right thing. Don't give in till the deal is correct for the situation. Oh yeah...I ride everyday and I will make it to work without complaining until the Strike is over. Get over it Philly
Alpha you are an ignorant piece of trash. I am a registered democrat. Voted for Obama, and have always supported unions. However, the union is wrong this time. Plain and simple. Did you even look at the pics, mostly white guys. And while I am white collar, I am still waiting for my white collar pay check. And are you telling me that $52,000 a year isn't a livable wage? I put food on mine and my girlfriends table, pay my bills, pay rent, pay 50% of my HC all the while making half of what septa workers make.
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Alpha Centauri, before you call anybody "racist" I'd suggest you look in the mirror. Guess by your definition President Obama's an "Uncle Tom", too.
Lot of issues here and not easy ones. Bottom line is that most of us who are capable of rational thought would come to the conclusion that striking in the midst of the worst recession since the Great Depression is pretty dumb.
Let's see, since I'm self-employed and have to obtain health insurance, the best plan is through my local chamber of commerce via CIGNA. At the annual premium cost, if I had to pay only 1% of my income towards my coverage, I'd have to be making in excess of $500,000 per year. Problem is that I don't.
This isn't a "Black" issue nor a "White" one, but one of just how do we ensure the most bang for the buck while realizing that SEPTA employees are as human as anyone else. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and the stoppage will end as it only hurts everyone.
Nope, just disgusted by your ignorance
unitygrl,
the 'low man on the totem pole' gets burned at EVERY workplace. it is the nature of capitalism... they aren't striking because they aren't being treated with dignity, they are stiking because they want MONEY.
unitygrl,
the 'low man on the totem pole' gets burned at EVERY workplace. it is the nature of capitalism... they aren't striking because they aren't being treated with dignity, they are stiking because they want MONEY.
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So they get a job they can't be fired from, a pension, a signing bonus, guaranteed nonperformance based pay increases, and they don't pay anything for health coverage? And in return, you have to drive a bus on a predetermined route? And you're complaining?!?!
Shame on you TWU!!!
Now is the chance for SEPTA to start with a clean slate. Fire them all Reagan style. Then rebuild the workforce with a reasonable wage and people who will actually do a good job.
could it be that most of you are jealous that septa workers are brave enough to demand what they deserve, because y'all are too scared to do it for yourselves? NO union member ever wants to strike--that's money they lose. instead of getting mad at them for fighting for what they want and believe in, why don't you get mad at septa? oh wait, it's because most of you are too scared to fight for what you want.
It's stuff like this that make me glad I made the decision to go to school in D.C.
LET THE WORKERS VOTE ON THE CONTRACT OFFERED, ITS NOT UP TO BROWN TO SAY YES OR NO
@redcrustin Unions exist to protect the greedy, the incompetent, and the lazy. There are LOTS of talented workers in this economy who got laid off because of factors well beyond anyone's control. I feel bad for the folks who WANT to work and cannot find a job. Many of them would gladly work for HALF of what these bus drivers make. BTW, bus drivers make over $50K a year after 4 years of service?? Are you KIDDING me? Cops make MUCH less, and put their lives on the line every day. These guys just drive a bus. A monkey can do that. What's wrong with you people???
I think Septa should be sold to a private firm, with no union employees, better service, increased investment in infrastructure, cleaner and safer transportation, and less uneducated and low class employees. Plus no more token handouts to the poor, lazy, and drug addicted.
"Fire them all Reagan style" LOL...you mean fire them and forget you're talking about in mid sentence? No need to bring Reagan into this...he's busy in hell.
11% increase in 5 years, an increase in pension payments to workers and no increase in their health-insurance contributions, the Union strikes anyway....PRICELE$$
This is ridiculous. Be happy that you have a job at all in this economic environment. I understand that you want an increase in wages and good pension benefits, I do too. But I didn't get a raise or better benefits this year....septa workers get paid more than me and I have to support my family too. But I'd rather be happy to have a job right now. I can't even strike at my job and I probably wouldn't if I was serving others. The benefits there are better than a lot of places so I understand that you want and probably deserve increases but many of us can't even get that and your only hurting the people that you serve, your not teaching the government a lesson in negotiations.
redcrustin asks "could it be that most of you are jealous that septa workers are brave enough to demand what they deserve, because y'all are too scared to do it for yourselves?" If you got what you and they deserved, your families would be starving in the streets. NO union member ever wants to strike--that's money they lose. "why don't you get mad at septa?" I am made at SEPTA, for caving in to these lowlife knuckle draggers every time they threaten a strike. To h with them. SEPTA should let the strike go on till union members' children have nothing to eat. Let's give them what they deserve, starvation.
I do think people need to let the Democrats know how they feel about the strike given the contract they turned down, and the lack of caring this shows the rider and taxpayer. Vote for another party today, and send a clear message that it's time to hire people who will do the job.
redcrustin - No, not jealous. We just don't want to have to pay for entitled workers. This isn't SEPTA's fault, it's union greed. SEPTA is trying to manage their costs. We're not scared to fight. I think every Philly resident aught to fight this. We should be fighting this unions greed. Give you nothing. Replace you. That's the fight we should be fighting. Saving us a lot of tax money.
While I agree with the right for the union to strike, the real question is -- Should they? For them to do it in the middle of the night while people were still sleeping without preparation, is the lowest. People can go back and forth all day about who makes what and when, who makes less than the other. What I fail to understand each and every time we come to this point is that we come to this point at all. It impacts everyone -- the young and the old and quite frankly since I have to pay 9% more in health insurance this coming year, I don't have that much sympathy for anyone who not only has a good job, but has a job -- especially in this economy.
Reagan was right to stand up to the Air Traffic Controllers Union. The small benefits increases and terms they were striking over were so tiny compared to the huge cost to the economy of the strike, that Reagan and the courts agreed. When the best possible offer is tendered and refused, negotiations are over, and the employer can hire and fire at will. Will the Democrats show that much personal fortitude? That much guts? Let them know in the booth what you expect from an elected rep who needs to serve all the people, including the rider and the taxpayer.
Alpha Centauri, the real truth of the matter is that race has nothing to do with this. Most of the white collar whites you refer to could give a damn about this situation as they drive to work. Given the current salaries and benefits package that septa workers have in this economy makess many feel outraged at the gaul septa employees have. When teachers, police officers, and firefighters are making less than a septa driver there is a problem. Stop crying about mistreatment and how you need a union to protect the little guy. In this case the little guy is not you and your union is not protecting them. This isnt a late 1800's coal mine, its septa. You are overcompensated as it is.
I bet there is about a million or so people out of work who would be glad to drive a bus, trolly or subway train....Get rid of the union and start anew with people who are willing to work and stop screwing up the lives of many hard working Philadelphians who were trying to get to work today.
I bet there is about a million or so people out of work who would be glad to drive a bus, trolly or subway train....Get rid of the union and start anew with people who are willing to work and stop screwing up the lives of many hard working Philadelphians who were trying to get to work today.
"unitygrl, I can appreciate your predicament. However, if working conditions are as poor as you say, then leave." What exactly do you think she could do? Do you honestly think any employer who needed someone who could actually do something would hire this knuckledragger?
I can understand the workers striking i really can..if u got a union use it, but SEPTA decides to strike with no one aware of it in the middle of the night. Do you understand how hard it is to get up, get ya kids ready for school, yourself ready for work and alot of riders r single parents. nobody knows until they wake up and turn on the tv or news..that leaves almost no time to adjust..I will say this about SEPTA I will no longer use them..This just shows how much they care about customers and this was a really poor decision to strike all of a sudden and no one knows..not even their own employees knew. I'm about getting as much money as u can out of an employer, but to use innocent people who r already strugglin as pawns..thats where i draw the line..I dont know about the rest of u. But Septa will never get my money again. I'm going to have to pony up and get a car..i cant do this with SEPTA anymore.
Unitygrl, I would love to ask a transit worker whats going on, but see the problem is that I will get a terse, angry grunt, since thats how all questions are answered by SEPTA employees. You do realize that I as a non union worker have to pay more for my health insurance from year to year, right? And now you want a contract that says that you dont? So, that means I have to pay for more of your health insurance as well. The union wants more CONTROL of jobs that are outsourced, that is what this strike is about.
With the service we receive as riders, the lack of listening from the employess, I do not understand how they can expect a raise. They should be glad they have jobs. Look at what's happening out in the 'real' world, almost 10% unemployment, no raises, etc.
I have to ask, why are there no machine to purchase tickets, so you don't have to deal with the ticket agents?
Well Unitygrl next time your in a hospital and my brother's (a doctor) shift is over he should just go home because geez he didn't expect another patient to come in when he wanted to go home after his 30-hour on call shift!
In many circles, including mine, we don't get cost of living raises, we get merit only and we pay for our health insurance, which increases each year. So, what are we supposed to understand about this strike. Yes, poor management and poor use of resources is always at the root of organizational problems, but the rank and file must also take some of the blame for the image that SEPTA has. I can't cross the street without having to make sure a bus doesn't run me over as they go through a red light. Many of their attitudes are such that they act like they don't want to be working there. You serve the public, not yourselves. If driving a bus is not what you want to do or enjoy doing, then find something else to do. Understand, that I know that dealing with the public is not easy on a good day, but enough is enough. Philly is always at the end of the joke because of inappropriate and poor decisions.
$25 an hour to drive a bus....Your joking me.
I dont get it, if they dont wnt to work let them go, its not like driving a bus takes that much skill. Gas/Brake, there are enough people out of work to take their jobs. These workers have no leverage, fire them all. You could have a new staff trained next week.
I can bet that all the big shots in the union have big money in the bank!
Hopefully Harrisburg will withhold funding from Septa. If that happens, then if I was the CEO of SEPTA, then I would tell the Union it is up to you to determine who will be laid off, as you went on strike.
SouthPhillyRob:
Did you get that line from your boss? Did he tell you you're lucky to have a job, and you got scared? Or did you think of that all by your little self? Unions don't exist for lazy people, they exist to fight for what one person alone can't accomplish in the face of their employers; i can think of a number of places i've worked without unions that had plenty of lazy people who never got fired.
not that you'll even read this or pay it any mind, but according to the PPD, officer recruits in the academy still make $400 more per bi-weekly paycheck than starting SEPTA drivers, at $39,000 per year, and after graduation from the academy make $41,000, considering that the entry wage for a SEPTA driver that starts at $14.62/hr makes a little over $30,000/yr, ($30,409 to roughly).
TWU thinks we are living in canada where they get a raise for doing crappy job and dont think they dont have to pay into healthcare.
i hope septa gives twu workers a nice xmas present of layoffs and show it really feels during this recession.
I am also favor of a state takeover of septa because it clearly shown they cant control their own workers and i would love to see this union try to strike under the state's control.
Unions are another great example of how good ideas in theory get destroyed by people. I cannot give an example of the first union, but when coal miners were working ungoldy hours for minimal pay under unsafe conditions, while the owners were raking in the dough, they deserved to unionize and strike. Wake up SEPTA union. YOu have a good job with great benefits (better than mine and I work for a multi-national company that actually does not need to be subsidized by taxpayer $$) and great pay (commensurate to the task completed). Stop whining because you are getting no sympathy from the rest of us. And the same goes to the next union who is going to strike.
Greedy- they don't deserve half of what they were offered...
anyone here ever read "A Prayer for the City?" During the Rendell administration and his negotiations with the city unions, one of the points was that the city wanted to have control over who they hired and fired - not the union. Imagine that? The employer hiring qualified people and firing the incompetents. Scary to think that leading up to Rendell and Cohen, the city did not have that power. SEPTA (and the city, wait and see) are heading back to the old ways of union thuggery. get out while you can.
I can't really say that I'm surprised to see SEPTA strike again.
Is it a surprise to hear them asking for more money? No real surprise there, EVERY time they claim to be underpaid.
Yet in the worse of economic situations for all of the U.S. and with a city so far in debt they can hardly afford to keep people like Police and Fireman on staff, I’m FLOORED to hear what was even OFFERED to these union workers, let alone the idea that it was turned down.
I look at my health benefits now that we are at open enrollment and I see how its doubled in out-of-pocket expenses my family and I can hardly afford. I see the empty desks around me in my office of the people who were laid off and I can’t help but wonder what the union officials are thinking.
I was beyond furious NOT at the fact that the union did strike, but at the callous way that it was done. Why would ANYone strand the citizens of this city at 3am? How cold must you be? I can understand standing up for your rights. But there is a right way and WRONG way to go about it. That one decision has cast a negative light on the true intentions and spirit of this strike. You can see that the union couldn’t care less about ANYthing and anyone past their own wants. And THAT is my issue here.
I don’t think this Union has clearly thought about how visible this particular strike is. Are they actually TRYING to have SEPTA reformed “the Regan way”?
When you strike with a clear purpose because you are definitely being mistreated and things need to be FORCED to change, that is one matter. When you turn your nose up at a steak dinner when most people are begging for scraps, that’s quite another. Worse yet.. strand those very same people at 3am in a bid for MORE than anything they can imagine getting.
I am disgusted and my heart goes out to the people who were struggling today at the hands of more greed.
Ugh. This city has so much to offer and then this kind of nonsense just messes it up. What kind of major metropolitan area has these public transportation problems?
I must admit that it was kind of nice walking around Center City at lunch and not having having to deal with the obnoxious SEPTA buses (spewing their air and noise pollution)and their incompetent drivers.
BUST THE UNION! There are plenty of people who will glady take their jobs. Septa will operate more effectively without the union. Governor begin a massive hire for Septa! You do not need to beg them. There are plenty of people who can drive buses, trolleys and trains.
Unitygrl: Thank you for the link to septa.org, but my "Where do I send my resume?' question was rhetorical -- I live in Los Angeles. You did, however, give me an idea for a job I hadn't considered before. I just signed up at LA's equivalent site and applied for a job as a custodian (there were no other jobs but mechanic - a skill I don't have. I hope to get my foot in the door, at least). As I use the buses here in LA every day, I can understand that you must have an awful lot of stress at your job. The drivers, indeed, take an awful lot of abuse. For the most part, though, they seem quite friendly and genuinely helpful. I always try to say thank you, but I know I'm in the minority -- a bus driver is just someone to get angry at, by most people's definition. I am sure most drivers earn their money and I would be the last person to try to take money away from anyone working an honest job for honest pay. Additionally, union of otherwise, I am absolutely, positively 100% supportive of workers who want to improve conditions or unfair wages at their place of work. Additonally, I disagree with anyone who simply says 'If you don't like the conditions at your job, quit' -- we should not have to quit to find good working conditions, they should be a guaranteed right for any worker regardless of race, religion, age, whatever. I am sure you and your coworkers believe you have good reason to strike, and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but -- you must admit that in the current economic climate it seems ungrateful, if not extremely greedy to strike. If there were some ridiculously blatant violation of human rights going on, that would be one thing, but for a salary increase? With no sarcasm intended, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. I'm a GOOD teacher and, despite seven years experience, I just applied to a custodial job (and probably won't get it!) - can you see my side?
I notice there are some commenters saying they are Septa employees. Sorry, but I haven't worked for a year and a half and here you are getting more than you deserve - $50K a year and only paying 1% of your healthcare, which I would LOVE to have right now. You won't be getting any sympathy from me.
Ditto to what Lady32 comments on. She has said exactly what I was going to say. It seems to me that everyone is mad because they don't have the guts or willpower to fight for their rights or maybe a union to back them up. You should have thought about that when you went looking for a job. Seems to me your all jealous.
@redcrustin: Go get a college education, and you won't need a union to hold on for dear life to your dead-end job. That's what smart, educated people do. When they get fed up with their employers, they leave for a better opportunity. Make yourself employable.
I have been hit or nearly hit by SEPTA busses running stop signs or taking running head starts at red lights three times just this year alone! The strike may be a headache for commuters, but at least our city streets are a bit safer as long as the SEPTA busses are off the road! $50K per year, nearly free healthcare and a healthy pension is generous compensation, in the current job market, or even the best job market. I agree with TallTriracialTerrific - it is a sin that a bus driver has a better salary and benefits than a Philadelphia Public School teacher - or a Philadelphia Police Officer or Firefighter. The SEPTA Board should pull a Ronald Reagan and fire them all.
Yeah to redcrustin!!! He knows what he's talking about. Even my grandmother understands what unions are all about and she only has an eigth grade education.
Did SEPTA employee "Unitygrl" say that SEPTA management actually takes notice when a passanger writes a complaint letter about a SEPTA employee?
The SEPTA parody ads that were posted at various bus stops and such were right! SEPTA is one big joke!
At the end of the day, these people get paid to drive buses and subways. It's not that hard to do. And the pay should be commiserate with the skills required. That's why cardiologists make millions, and bus drivers make $40K. It's pretty simple. If you don't like it, then you should have valued your education when you were younger. It's not our fault you made the wrong choices in life. Deal with it.
How many times do you all have to be told, they all don't just drive buses and subways. There is much more to a transportation system than just drivers! And I myself would not want to be a driver having to deal with the awful way the public treats them. There have been stories of knives being pulled on them and other horror stories. It's not all glory like everyone makes out to be.
What do the cops make an hour? Any answere out there?
gobirds556: I basically agree with what you are saying, but I don't think the fault lies entirely with unions. As you mentioned, unions were created for real, legitimate concerns and have been twisted over the years. But, it's important to remember that it's not EVERY union that is guilty of this, just as not every CEO is a not a money-grubbing thief. Just as you also said, unions have been twisted by PEOPLE and those people are us -- Americans. We're just as greedy up and down the entire corporate chain, from CEO to the soldiers in the trench and I think it's going to take a real examination of our own values if this nation's going to get back on the right track.
But again, I feel you are basically correct in your assessment, and it's a shame that such a noble idea has become so twisted. What's interesting to me is that, in Japan, unions are nearly non-existent and both sides have found a kind of harmony in which to work. Working conditions are better, wages are basically better and the standard of living is much better. Japan is not perfect, by any means, but looking at them would serve as a good model for the US (and they could learn quite a bit from us, too, by the way). I recommend anyone interested in improving their own perspective take a look at Japan, or some other country -- you'll be surprised at the insights you gain.
Another example of Philadelphia unions hurting the economy.
Don't worry....Obama will fix this.
@hckymm "Even my grandmother understands what unions are all about and she only has an eigth grade education." If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does. LOL.
This is a great example of what workers can do when organized. Yet most of you can only complain that you're not getting paid as much as transit workers. Here's an idea, pick yourself up and stop complaining. Organize. Maybe you too can accomplish something for yourself and your coworkers. Regain the losses you so willingly gave up. Contrary to your argument, during a recession is the most important time to hold on to your share. Are Philly workers that cowardly and push-overs?
So REDCRUSTIN your saying a driver starts out at 30K a year and within 4 years is making 52k a year. That is a 73% jump in income in 4 years! Face facts you guys are overpaid and it doesnt take a blind man or 300 comments to figure it out. And who the hell pays your salary? $550M from the State of PA!!Lets see the state fill the void lik they did 2007 after your union showed up the Gov today! I'm going to write letters to the State House seeking budget cuts of $200MM a year from the state subsidy you crooks get!
Goverment run transportation is never a good thing. Turn it over to the private sector and let supply and demand determine wages and benefits. Anytime you have a union your going to have over paid employees and union goverment emoloyment is a disaster.
Philly has the worst transit to begin with: rude operators, filthy buses and patrons. Shaniqua and LeRoy should be glad they have jobs at SEPTIC and get their asses back to work.
The TWU is greedy and stupid. Plain and simple.
I support TWU Local 243. I live and work in the city and ride Septa to and from work everyday. My life will be inconvenienced for a while but I'm behind the workers! la huelga está aquí
@american3: Maybe the rest of us ACTUALLY like our jobs and our employers. There are many other ways to resolve conflict than resorting to threats and walkouts. And I'll bet if you actually polled the members of the TWU, most of them don't want to be a part of the union scam, but are too scared to stand up to the loudmouth rebel-rousers out of fear of retaliation (we all know what happens to "scabs" in this town...it's like a thug mentality). Most just want to go to work, get paid, and go home.
the more than obvious racism surrounding this argument should bring to the fore some of people's attitudes towards the workers: from 'knuckledragger' by fascinated to mc9386's, 'shaniqua' comment, we can really tell you're in it to win it in this discussion.
and for those who are assuming that i'm a septa driver, you got it all wrong. i have my BA, from the best public university no less, and i proudly support these workers. this has nothing to do with their wages, it has to do with your jealousy that they make more than you do because they fight for what they deserve. if you're too scared to demand it for yourself, then you don't deserve it. it's easy to say they don't deserve what they want, but do you? as one person has said, somebody has to do this job, and it's obvious you think you're too good for it. but making less than them. hahahaha.
SEPTA Management: please stand strong! Don't cave into the unions demands! These workers are already really overpaid, and the fares are too high as it is!
@redcrustin: I'm happy for you and your public university education. I have an MBA from an Ivy League school and make over $250K a year. But enough comparisons of our peni$es... There is a natural order in the universe, and bus drivers have their place in this order. There is a fair market value for driving a bus, and they should be paid accordingly. Using stiff-arm tactics like this only serves to place the entire system out of equilibrium, and someone will be forced to ultimately pay for this deadweight loss (e.g. the state government and/or the fare-paying public). And if you don't understand my argument, go get an economics textbook. I'm sure they sell those at Temple.
This is great. Most companies have had salary freezes for 2 years now. Some have hiring freezes. Come on. Should a SEPTA driver make more than the policeman keeping us safe? What about the teacher trying to make a better life for your kids? This is why SEPTA is the highest fare transportation in the country. When is enough enough? Sorry, but there are more than enough people out there now that can take these jobs (if you hire them, half of them will cross the picket lines for jobs). Unions are just like large corporations. Once they drive the market, they get a pass to steal. The only way to fix it is to start fresh by firing them and hiring new employees. What isin 5 years? healthcare costs are skyrocketing and this union did not have to pay any more money to their plans? My company raised everyone's payments to cover the costs, any everyone here is happy that they split the cost that was pushed down to them from the insurer. Unreal. get rid of them and watch the fares drop people.
Left my home town back in 78. Fast forward. I brag about the history of the city and uniqueness of it often. However folks always ask: Why is it un-rest "strikes" what seems all the time? And if the place is so great how come YOU did not resettled back there?! With the comments posted here about the corruption, unions that have outlived there worth, I no longer after today have explain. They can read it for themselves. Wise up Philadelphia. Get rid of the cancer. And it starts in the polling both. The rest of the country is waking up. Get on board.
So SEPTA strikes, blah blah blah, and they forget that oh, maybe OTHER people might actually LOSE their jobs over not being able to show up on time, or even at all. So in the end SEPTA has the city by the balls, again, and there are even MORE unemployed people haunting the streets of Philadelphia. Ah yes, the Bruce Springsteen song. Come to think of it, I've got an analogy: The SEPTA workers' union and its strike is to Philly like AIDS is to Africa. Both spread like wildfire, everybody thinks they're "helping," and in the end people still die. There's no contest between SEPTA and the MBTA, whoever said that. Boston public transport is crowded, but it doesn't smell like urine or have people taking a dump in the subway cars. Thank god I moved back to Beantown.
American3 - I was in a union, it sucked. I worked my tail off (along with a few others), while the a large group of "senior" folks did nothing to earn their paycheck. Yet we all made the same. I hated it, so I went back to school. Now my paycheck increases with my performance. The harder I work, the more I can earn. Unions are great for lazy people who don't want to work hard, and hold back those with motivation.
This strike is ridiculous. If this union thinks they will get 4% in this economy, they are crazy. In fact, they are prob better off working on the old contract until things turn around. Why sign a 3 or 4 year deal with so much uncertainity?
To all you people saying that us non-union workers should fight for more money, that we should all be unionized and take money away from the "fat cats" running the "greedy corporations"; realize that "fat cat" is a relative term. Check the label on the shirt you're wearing, and chances are that the person who made it for pennies a day thinks YOU are the "fat cat". Some people get paid more than others, that's just the way it is. If SEPTA workers kept their union dues to themselves, they'd have a nice pay raise, I'm sure, and then maybe their combative relationship with management would go away, since everyone would be working for the same goal. As soon as you get a union involved, everything gets adversarial and you have problems. Unions were a great idea back when workers' rights didn't exist, but that age is over now. Thank you, unions, for your service in the 20's, 30's, and 40's. Your time is gone, please leave. (Oh, and I'd be interested to know how much union "management" gets paid--I'm sure the president of the TWU makes more than $51,000 a year.)
Reminds me of movie "While you were sleeping". How could they stoop so low to strike 3am Monday. Friday and Monday most people have already purchased weekly or monthly passes and by 3am they had already went to bed rest assure they could wake up jump on Septa and get to work tuesday. They knew what they were doing. Wanted to anger SEPTA executives and did this at innocent peoples expense. No one can afford to miss work these days.
Redcrustin they fight because they're greedy and as you say some people here are jealous of Septa workers, well it looks like the SEPTA workers are jealous of SEPTA management and the wages/benefits that they get. Of course I make more than drivers and I also work harder than they do. My wage increases are earned on my own merit, not some smuck speaking for me. But can you sit here and justify the way they walked out on the commuters that pay almost the highest fares in the country? Without those fares they wouldn't even have a job making $52k a year. And who the hell heard of a cashier who doesn't make cash! Compare PATCO smart cards to the terrible turnstiles SEPTA uses. You wouldn't even need the cashiers or coin collectors if the union let septa modernize. And maybe cutting out all that excess payroll would actually result in cheaper fares!
This is exactly what's wong with unions in America. Shame on the workers for not taking the contract. I hope they are all replaced.
the chic in the photo is not in a bike lane... roadkill
FIRE THEM ALL
HOW ABOUT THE MANAGEMENT RUNNING THE ROUTES ( LET IT BE FREE DURING THE STRIKE ) ...SO SCHEDULES WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE RATHER HAVE A RUN ON EACH ROUTE OF THE TRAINS OR HEAVILY TRAVELED ROUTES
AGAIN, FIRE ALL THE STRIKERS!
Fire everyone that refuses to work. Start rom scratch. Let the market define the wages and benefits, and hire people eager to work The entitlement culture of the employees there is laughable.
Here is an idea all union workers should agree to work for minumum wage, go on medicade, live in public housing, let all the a**holes who thing people shouldn't make a living wage support us.
I am a union supporter, but the TWU should be ASHAMED of themselves. ASHAMED. Across the country, people are being laid off, facing increased health costs, salary freezes (if they are lucky) and salary cuts (more likely), every single American is working harder and longer for less - and these workers have the audacity to turn down RAISES? And NO - they are not heroic for fighting for what they deserve. Sorry. These are unskilled jobs -- they aren't teaching our children, they aren't protecting our streets, they aren't risking their lives fighting our fires. TWU workers are greedy, delusional and selfish. May this all come back to haunt each and every one of your greedy, selfish, ignorant selves!
You're joking, Specky, right?
This is such BS. The worst economy in my lifetime and SEPTA pukes strike killing the little people. Fire them all and train unemployed people to take their jobs. Then send them all to Washington DC
Also, how ridiculous is it for Septa to strike 8 weeks before Christmas? I hope Septa management doesn't cave in, because in a few short weeks it will have the upper hand here. Also, there is a large unemployment line that it can train replacement workers from...
If they don't want their jobs, then get out of the way and let people that are willing to work for extremely generous compensation take your place. I hope they all lose their jobs and are replaced!!!
In response to unitygrl's comment at 1:34pm: If SEPTA employees are not treated well, then they should FILE SUIT AGAINST SEPTA IN COURT. There are millions of people who are not treated well by their employers. You certainly don't use the customers to your advantage. Leave the riders out of it. This is not our fight. In a decade, all subway trains will be automatically operated and y'a'll be out of a job anyway.
SouthPhillyRob who are you kidding....Making 250K a year with a Ivy League school diploma? For one...Im a rocket scientist who has 14 doctorates and speaks 30 different languages (see how easy it is to make claims on the internet) and two...if you are such a hard working individual as you make yourself out to be...why arent you doing your job now instead of being on this forum making comments and posts every 10 mins or so. Obviously you are spending way too much time here so now we all have an argument that you are way overpaid and lazy. You should be thankful you have a job so get back to work and stop wasting your employers money!!!
RE: The Article Photo: What movie did these people watch that led them to believe that riding a BIKE in the middle of a road congested with cars is a good or safe idea?? Honestly, if Aliens came down to Earth today, and saw our roads, they would say "Why do you let those vulnerable bicyclists risk their lives and clog up traffic by slowing everyone down??". Sidewalks aren't just designed for walking on people... try riding your bike on one, we do it here in The Burbs all the time.
this is sickening...absolutely sick that septa workers average over 50k per year?? and the best part is... they want more???
in the state of our economy they actually believe they are going to get more? im here to say that i currently will be finishing up my degree this winter, and that more than likely i will not find a job because they are few and far between. i would be thrilled if i got any job at all...and if that job paid me 50k a year and i think i would skip home after getting it. instead of giving these GREEDY union workers any raise, they should think about the current status of there economy and the people that have to take this mode of transportation.
people in our economy now are taking pay cuts, fur lows, and being laid off, how could someone expect to get a raise plus some when the rest of our economy is praying that we can hold on to our jobs?
Too bad Philly locals wont vote for a Ronald Reagan type who will break up the unions. We reap what we sow... Hope and change!
Have they opened a newspaper and looked at the economy? I guess they think Obama will take care of them.
I grew in Southwest.
Went to Bartram.
Went to Temple.
Moved to FLA.
I still visit, friends and family.
Still have a warm spot for Phildelphia in my heart.
If the management at Septa and the Union Bosses, could take a step back and see what a terrible light this puts the city in nationally, maybe they would rethink this whole issue.
It is one more nail in the coffin.
It is one more reason NOT to bring your convention to the city.
It is one more reason NOT to open an office in the city.
It is one more reason NOT to do business in the city.
This is hurting everyone NOT just the people involved.
I hope the strikes over before the Phillies win the World Series so SEPTA can completely fail the city again.
TO SEPTA WORKERS: All my due respects but only one out of four in our family has a job right now and you are threatening that !
There are too many of us suffering already due to unemployment or underemployment. Why should someone who already has a job MAKE OUR LIVES WORSE. Times are hard folks. Tighten your belt with the rest of us. Ride the wave and maybe we would have a little more sympathy for you. Compassion is a TWO WAY STREET FOLKS.
Now I know where I went wrong. I should be a SEPTA worker. I, too, can be a mind-numbingly boring person who does a bad job and makes an average of $50K. Because I'm certainly not making that now that the recession hit. I love how SEPTA workers want more money while the majority of its ridership took pay cuts this year. Way to be in touch, SEPTA. And SEPTA, if you want a worker during the strike, I'd be happy to work for their salary and half the benefits.
4% year for each year of the contract? Retired folks get no raise, buy their medical goes up, spouse got no raise this year, and her medical goes up......Can't remmeber getting close to 4% in the last decade of my working life.
SEPTA is the worst- its clear how greedy the union is. I say offer them half of what they were offered the first time and send them on their way. If they don't like it, I know thousands of unemployed people would would take their jobs with NO raises...
To the SEPTA Organization and ALL members TWU 234, I hope the employees that work in any of your payroll offices/departments makes it to work to process your LAST PAYROLL CHECK.
Not pro-union in any sense, but the SEPTA demands seem like a slap in the face of unions working for public companies (e.g. GM/ChryCo/Name your favorite airline) that took large concessions / layoffs in order to keep their respective companies afloat. I'm all for a do-over. Open the transportation market to competitive bidding.
This reminds me of the old tactics of TWU drivers I remember when I was a kid in the 70's. Driver would wait for a little old lady to come running for the bus. Soon as she got to the door, he would slam the door in her face and laugh. Also, people would run down from the el to get on their bus at Bridge-Pratt. Soon as they got within feet, the driver would slam the doors and take off practically running them down. Septa employees need to take lessons from other transit agencys across the country on how to treat the riding public and common courtesy. Every transit agency I have ridden on throughout the nation, the drivers are helpful and courteous. It's ashame that after 30+ years, the TWU is still the same useless thugs!! Makes me glad I left Philly and the East and how sweet I have it living on the West Coast.
We the riding public will be "open-minded" when we ALL earn the same wages and benefits, and have the same job security, as Local 234 members.
I'm all for this strike. It is about time workers fought management and flexed their muscles. You can't get to work? Good, demand that hard working people like SEPTA employees are treated better. And, whoever believes that they get better pay than a teacher is skewing the reality. I do okay and I am a teacher. We could get better teachers or hold on to good ones longer if they received the appropriate pay. Maybe this strike will teach the teachers' union about how to flex their muscles. Sure, SEPTA workers have been rude to me but morale is built from the top down. The workers are unhappy, must be partly due to management. I have seen garbage men smile as they work, perhaps they are treated well and the actual job is not necessarily the issue? In the end, many of us rely on SEPTA and they seem to make a lot of money. Share the wealth or lower the prices. I'm proud that the union took a stand as I am proud of the teachers union in the 80s that took a stand.
Abused by bosses or customers? Work is hard? Don't give me these .... please. The reality is these jobs need little education, require little specialized skills, and many jobs are tougher and get paid less. The moment these drivers and workers decide to give up their "tough" positions, I bet all my saving there will be 5000 people lining up in order to get "abused".
$52K/yr and 11% raise for a job a chimp could do is outrageous. The unions will be the death of this country.
Maybe the riders should reconsider their relationship with SEPTA. By this I mean reconsider our fares. Think about it. They've already taken advantage of us by pulling this stunt at 3am Tuesday. Commutes had been planned and passes purchased by then, because we were informed a deal was in the works and there would be no strike. HA! Boycotting the system is unrealistic, as anyone out on the roads today can attest to. We need SEPTA. It's time for them to understand they need us as well. So that pass collecting dust in your wallet? Shine it up and use it next week. Do not pay extra for the "privelege" of a commute on the R6, seeing how your plan was using a seat on a bus! When the conductor asks for a ticket, hand them a token instead. I am so serious. Zone fare? What zone fare? They see us as meek, obedient puppies who will whimper and fall in line with whatever they do to us. Well I say let's bite back! They will surely respect us more and hesitate before taking advantage of us again.
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I don't know what it's like to work for Septa, nor do I really care to know. I have been a Septa rider for many years, got so tired of the lousy service, dirty buses, constant TARDINESS and expensive fares, that I bought a car a little over 3 years ago. And guess what? That was the best investment ever! I never have to worry about waiting an hour just to get on a bus so that I can go to work. I have so much sympathy for those who have no choice but to rely on Septa because I have been there for so many years. People want to talk about how Septa workers get treated unfairly, get run over by management but yet, get paid over $50K annually, get a pension (I don't even know what that is!!!), pay cheap insurance and they have the nerve to support the strike. Wow, that is just oxymoronic. Put yourselves in the riders' shoes. Personally, I work 2 jobs just so that I am able to pay mortgage, daycare, utilities, make sure food is in my fridge and cabinets for my family. I'd commit suicide if I got fired from either job! I haven't had a raise in over 2 years, I don't get a pension, I pay about $300 / month just to have insurance for myself, my wife and daughter. OH, not to mention that both jobs don't even equal to $50K! So please excuse most of us for not really having much sympathy for Septa and the union. A lot of people are too busy worrying about how they're going to make it to work. They're too busy praying they don't get fired because they can't find a way to make it to work. We'd be happy to be in your shoes and get $50K, pension and not have to worry about paying so much for insurance. So for us to have sympathy? Yeah, that's kind of difficult at this point in time.
I am starting a website suesepta.com I am trying to collect stories from people who are SEVERELY affected by this strike. If you or anyone else has any please go to suesepta.com
I love the comments here. You hate the SEPTA employees, but have to acknowledge that they provide a vital service to the city. You don't like how they're paid, but now you're dealing with the excessive traffic on your streets. So how much is it worth to you for all those vehicles to be off the roads? Enjoy that commute that's 3 times longer than normal.
BTW. Has anyone actually found out what the mass transit workers of other major metropolitan areas make?
I am starting a website suesepta.com I am trying to collect stories from people who are SEVERELY affected by this strike. If you or anyone else has any please go to suesepta.com
Considering there is 11% unemployment and the country is an economic crisis, the strike is WRONG. People from out of state who have heard about this ask me "What country are these SEPTA people living in? Don't they know that they are lucky to have a job?" They should not have gone on strike. They could continue to talk (good luck with getting more money in this economy) but to take it out on working class people (the riders) who in some cases don't make as much as SEPTA workers, nor do they have a pension, health insurance or secure job, in this economy is not right.
In Seattle where I'm from, Metro never went on strike because it was publically funded. We are missing that. Our tax dollars are funding our Mass Transit here and we are not getting the service we deserve. We get rude drivers, drivers who smoke, run red lights, are verbally abusive, inconsiderate and just plain unprofessional. Are there good ones, yes, but there are no where near the majority. I will however, be counted in the number of people who will be among the riders lost due to the strike. What SEPTA workers don't understand is this, you keep screwing over the people, you won't have a job. Ridership keeps doing down, you wont have a bus or train to drive. But that's ok. I'll be amongst the next 5% that WON'T be a SEPTA rider. And the bad part is, it's cheaper for me to ride the bus to work but I need RELIABILTY and SEPTA doesn't provide that.
Dear unitygrl,
Welcome to the work world. You poor thing guess what you are not being treated any differently than any other employee so put on your big girl panties and grow up. How would you like it if Doctors and nurses fail to show up for work when you get sick. How would you like it if police and fire walked off of their jobs? SEPTA workers are greedy and selfish. I hope SEPTA does not give in. There is no need for this strike and you employees should be ashamed of yourselves.
Poor Kitty_Carlye you miss the point. Why should unitygirl be treated the same as you? She shouldn't and does not have to...she has representation from he union. While the majority of the workers just bend over to take what management gives them, the union fights not to lose anything. Grant it you might see it as unfair...oh well get over it. Life isn't fair and its not like they are getting paid during this strike, and Im probably sure that they lose there benefits while out to so they are making sacrifices to stand up for what they believe in...would you or anyone else who complains on these forums do that...doubtful...because you plain out lack the courage to do so.
And on another note....dont make blind statements like your the all knowing...Nurses go on strike quite often due to unfair work conditions and pay(Google this: nurses strike 2008 ). Oh and comparing Public safety (i.e. Fire and Police) to public transportation is a weak argument...try something more stimulating
how do u selfish peons know how much education septa operators and mechanics have... keep kissing the ring and listening to the news and you'll stay in the same position you are... you rather the vp's and the ceo's make 400% more than they're employees you bend over and take that with no problem... stand up for your own rights instead of worrying and hating about someone elses....PEONS...KEEP KISSING THE RING...
I'm sorry, but under our current economic circumstances, if a union strikes, the company should break the contract with them and hire some of the millions of unemployed who would love to be working. Now is the time to be grateful that you have a job, not be asking for more money, less hours, etc. I would gladly work 12-15 hour days if it meant I would be working again. Grow up and get back to work.
They made their decision, bring in the replacements. Unskilled laborers making $50K+ have no room to demand more.
I worked for the Transit system for 30 years and yes there is too much fat in upper management but Union workers especially cashiers cause a lot of waist in fund. They abuse the FMLA put in place for the needy workers . This creates too much overtime to be paid out. The Supervisors in this area refuse to do their work in a professional manner ignoring safety and lately cleanliness of the stations. Some of the Drives are underpaid but more than a hand full of cashiers giving the riding public nothing but attitude are far overpaid for their services.
The party is over 234 workers have to start producing.Get with the real world While there may be some workers under paid there are far two many workers over paid.
In today's economy we are all lucky to be working e grateful for what we have so let's stop being greedy and get back to work. Think of the poor people in the city who need transportation.
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