Lots of stuff to get to. Before I get into some of the details of the trade deadline negotiations, I thought I'd point out one of the most intriguing and bewildering developments of the day. General manager Pat Gillick said the Phillies were pondering an "adjustment" that would get J.A. Happ out of the bullpen. When asked if that adjustment involved sending Happ to the minor leagues, Gillick said that the Phillies were examining another "alternative." I'll tell you this: it isn't Brett Myers going to the bullpen. Beyond that, I have nothing concrete.
Gillick didn't say it was a definite. But everything the Phillies have said - particularly Charlie Manuel, who reiterated today that he views Happ as a starter - seems to indicate that they want the young lefty to get another major league start.
Now, onto the other business. . .
Gillick said the Phillies thought they had a chance to add a starting pitcher through a three-way trade that eventually fell through. He also said the Phillies were involved in discussions for Manny Ramirez, but that the asking price was too high. Ramirez eventually landed with the Dodgers.
Other notes:
1) The market for lefty relievers was well beyond what the Phillies were willing to pay. For example, the Marlins gave up a 21-year-old pitcher who Baseball America rated as the No. 5 prospect in the organization to land 38-year-old Arthur Rhodes.
2) Interest in short stop Jason Donald was significant, but it would have taken the right player for the Phillies to part with him.
3) Gillick and Manuel both said they are not disappointed that they did not add another piece. The silver lining: the Mets and Marlins did not significantly upgrade either.
Though the Phillies spent much of the past two days actively trying to land a lefthanded reliever in order to bolster their playoff chances, Major League Baseball's trading deadline passed at 4 p.m. today without any announced moves.
The Phillies had considered a number of players, including Pittsburgh's John Grabow, Atlanta's Will Ohman, San Francisco's Jack Taschner and Kansas City's Ron Mahay, but were unable to strike a deal.
The Phillies still could add a player before the end of the season, but any players involved in a trade would have to pass through waivers before being dealt. It isn't out of the question -- the Phillies added Jamie Moyer in that manner two years ago -- but general manager Pat Gillick said yesterday the likelihood of a deal decreases significantly once today's deadline passes.
"There are guys that slip through, but there is just a larger pool of players to pick from prior to (the deadline)," Gillick said.
The Phillies added righthander Joe Blanton earlier this month, but were hopeful to add a lefty reliever to supplement J.C. Romero in the bullpen. They also were exploring a possible deal for a hitter that could help bolster an offense that has been inconsistent for most of the last two months.
Striking a deal beyond July 31 can be difficult because rival clubs can block a trade by claiming a player off of waivers and forcing his current club to withdraw the waiver request and keep him on the team.
So while the Phillies may not be done adding personnel, all the major parts are likely in place for the playoff run.
Posted by David Murphy @ 4:05 PM
Permalink |
145 comments
They didn't pull off a blockbuster deal to help this team get over the top?? Shocked!!
Way to go Gillick. I can't say I am surprised...
way to go, Pat...
Comment removed.
Great move Pat, never saw that one coming.
why, why, why? Another year of getting so close but falling short. Hopefully with Gillick gone next year, we can hope for some changes.
That's OK. The current team really looks good on paper.
Comment removed.
Oh come on guys. There were no blockbuster deals that would have made this a run-away finish- it'll be a fight either way.
I would have been happy with another LH, if for nothing else to keep Romero rested and fit, but again...that's not going to win you 5-10 more games.
Me, too. Not even a minor who cares deal? Appalled. I thought this team was marketed as Yankees South? Um, no we ain't nearly.
Hey Pat---You really ARE stand PAT. Go to Seattle already and take Amaro with you.
They should have traded Gillick for a bag of dog sh*t
just enough effort not to win... again LOLERZ
Is considering other players something to crow about? Let's face it, the Phils don't enough "prospects" to give up to land even a mid-level player.
Comment removed.
Hey Pat. Don't let the door hit you on the way out! Thanks for nothing!
This was an extremely overhyped trade deadline this year with nothing happening at the end. I really don't mind that the Phils did not make any moves because everyone's asking price was so high. That is why only Griffey and the 500 year old Arthur Rhoades were the only guys to move today. It should be interesting because this the time in the season when the Phils make their push (no more panic about trades I guess). Lets see what happens from here.
there you go, thats what the ownership of this team thinks of its fans...a big fat NOTHING!!!!!...keep buying their tickets...biggest bunch of saps as a fan base in the history of sports..great job gillick, you should be fired for incompetance this minute
For all of you who bash Gillick, tell me who you would go get and what you give up for them. Please include players who were being shopped and not say Victorino and Ruiz for Lincicum
Comment removed.
It wasn't Pat's fault. He had to take orders from Dave and the Invisibles.
You people that are ripping Gillick don't know baseball. Name one player that was available to the Phils that they didn't get.
the problem isnt the lame of moves now... its the lack of moves in the past off-season. you over pay for pitching at the deadline, yet the phillies seem to forget that each winter.
if the phillies had just signed kyle loshe instead of ignorantly refusing to discuss a contract with him after he turned down their initial offer, we wouldn't be worried.
does anyone know if kris benson (who the phils constantly touted as a legitimate backup plan) can start throwing lefty & out the pen?
i don't want to say it, but i already see the hey-day of jimmy/howard/utley going to waste due to the phillies not adding the piece that puts them over the top (eagles anyone?)
Nope, it's not about "prospects" it's always been about having the commitment to doing what it takes and basically the b*lls to make the moves and spend the money. They have neither. Did we mention spending the money and doing what it takes? Same old Phillies, how short will they come up this year? It's a loser's mentality and these owners have it in spades as they count the money rolling in.
Manny Ramirez was traded to the Dodgers. No word on who Boston got in return.
B atkinson is absolutely right. The fact is, there was no "blockbuster" deal to be made. People in this city are unbelievably ignorant about personnell (in all sports) Now that this deadline has passed I'm sure we can look forward to suggestions that the Eagles trade Hank Baskett and Lito Sheppard for Terrell Owens...
They need to make the bar at the stadium (McFaddens) much bigger, or put in another bar all-together. Enough of the family atmosphere BS. It takes forever to get a beer at McFaddens it's way too crowded. Do something about that Gillick, and you've got my full support. I mean come on it's so simple!!!
Actually, the phils do have some prospects, a few of which I bet we see when the rosters expand. I can't imagine Pat will be happy that his final big trade was Blanton... doesn't do much for his legacy, does it. Then again, we don't know why they couldn't make it happen. It's possible ownership blocked trades and it's also possible that other players blocked trades because they didn't want to come here. I think I'm just going to concentrate on this lovely 4 game win-streak they've put together, and hope that they go in to St. Louis and do what they've done previously, which is HIT.
THIS TEAM IS A BUNCH OF LOSERS ....THE FRONT OFFICE IS PROBABLY DOWN IN THE CARRIBEAN COUNTING MONEY IN FRONT OF A MIRROR SO THEY DONT CHEAT THEMSELVES.....THEY ARE SUCKING MONEY OUT OF US FANS AND THEY DONT DO ANYTHING...WE NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDED A PITCHER FOR 3 YEARS NOW THE FANS ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THIS BUT THE FRONT OFFICE LIKE THEIR MONEY...
I WILL NEVER GO TO A GAME AGAIN.. I HAVE NOT FOR 2 YRS NOW THEY ARE SUCKING YOU PHILADELPHIA JUST LIKE THE EAGLES
what exactly do you want them to trade?
i love when people critisize a GM, but offer no ideas as to what they should have done.
who was out there worth giving up our best prospects for?
At least they didn't trade for Arthur Rhodes. He was terrible 3 years ago.
There was nothing out there worth paying through the nose for...I am glad they made no moves. The Phillies desperately need to build up their farm system so they can (a) have reasonably priced starting players and (b) have a stockpile of talent so when the 1 missing piece is available, they can jump on it.
Dodgers get Manny. Dodgers get Jason Bay. Pittsburgh gets prospects. Reported by Jon Heyman.
Things really are not bad. We are the reigning division champs and we are in 1st place. Mets did nothing, Marlins got Rhodes, no huge deals there. It will be a tight race, but we have to be the favorite at this point. We just need Rollins and Victorino to keep getting on base and a couple more solid starts from Myers would help too.
Pat couldn't make a trade, he was in line at Red Lobster at 3 p.m. for the AARP special rate.
beansdale and rvb2321 - you apologists make me sick, honestly...id love to have an actual baseball talk with you away from this forum...you guys sound like mayor street, "well, theres nothing we can do" that is such BS, there were a number of very very good players that moved this year
If you want something bad enough, you go get it.
There is a difference between a good trade and a sucker trade. You might get a good player unless others beat you to the punch. The last thing you want to do is to give away talent that could help you in the long run for a short term gain as someone who will then leave you for free agency. Remember the Phillies powerhouse teams of 76-78 were built by Paul Owens who stockpiled farm talent for development into major leaguers and used the farm club to help the Phillies. Think long and hard before you pull the trigger. The season is only two months away from ending and free agency starts in November where you can sign whoever youw ant and get better trades.
Comment removed.
Manny DID get dealt... to the Dodgers.
Comment removed.
I'm glad the Marlins didn't get Manny. That helps us. We may still trade for a reliever after the deadline. Looks like all of the teams with lefty relievers were asking too much as pretty much none of them were traded. Teams that are far out of the race may look to dump those kind of guys now that they know they overestimated their worth. For all of the people who constantly complain about money, the Phillies rank in the same place in the MLB for revenue and money spent on players so they are spending in line with what the money they are bringing in.
ATTENCION: the Phils lack the vision to obtain the correct players. Freddy Garcia and Adam Eaton were suspect AT BEST when we got them. Period. Ownership should have let Cole Hamels start opening day (instead they give it to the wife beater who showed up fat and out of shape once again) and they should have gone after starting pitching BEFORE, EARLIER, and DURING the season...not on the day of the trade deadline. SEVERAL solid starting pitchers have traded teams since the end of last season. Joe Blanton? Come on Pat...this is a disgrace.
Best move/non-move all season!!! We are good to go!!
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
Comment removed.
Sometime, the best move is no moves
Joe Blanton will take us to the promised land! No wait, I mean JA Happ.
hey A*SSSW8IPES...C.C. Sabathia was available. We didn't get him. Yes, I know personnel and baseball. He was available and he went to our division competition. Now, sit back and tell us that there wasn't a deal to be made? Ridiculous. They lack the vision to continually draft good players who you either bring up or trade (AKA The Yankees). We don't have much to trade in the minors (I hope people understand you can't trade draft picks in MLB). BUT, we could spend money, trade what prospects we have for a starting pitcher. period.
they have prospects to land players to help. some of the players, even the ones who got good players are just fringe prospects, we have plenty of them. i agree, i will not go to another game with this ownership, but they'll still fill the place up, and the owners will be counting their money laughing all the way to bank. again, and again.
i count 40 pitchers traded (MLB and minor leaguers) since Jan 2008 -- and about 15 trades that were "for cash or future consideration".
way to go Pat...way to wheel and deal...
Baseball sucks anyway.....Lets go Birds!!!!
Two MAJOR problems: Gillick is truly a "Stand Pat" GM and, more importantly, Phillies management will NEVER spend $$$$ to put us over the top. As long as 40,000+ are showing up at CBP, management will be the cheapest in the majors.
Thank God we got a pitcher with a 5-12 record. They are often very hard to find.
"Remember the Phillies powerhouse teams of 76-78 were built by Paul Owens who stockpiled farm talent for development into major leaguers and used the farm club to help the Phillies." ... ... ... Slight flaw in this theory...those players who all came up in the early- to mid- 70's, they all stuck around long enough to win a World Series together. This is not a "long run" team... over the next three to five years, this team will lose Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, and Cole Hamels, for starters. Win now is the only acceptable outlook for this franchise.
CC Sabiatha...was available. The Mets got him????
Posted by psalveso 04:40 PM, 07/31/2008
i love when people critisize a GM, but offer no ideas as to what they should have done. who was out there worth giving up our best prospects for?
Report abuse
Sign in to report abuse
Select a username to report abuse
Confirm your registration to report abuse Posted by seaonasdad 04:40 PM, 07/31/2008
what exactly do you want them to trade?
Comment removed.
That's next year james!!!! What about this year? You're goal as a franchise is to win a World Series every year, not keep putting it off. Boston made it work for Bay. Dodgers made it work for Manny. You honestly don't think we could have had him for Victorina, Carrasco, and Marson? You don't think we could have had Harden for less than that?
I thought Gillick was suppossed to be some sort of a genius. So far he has brought in nothing but average players. They are still living off Ed Wade, and I find that amazing.
Gillick is a disgrace to senior citizens everywhere.
reminder for all those who are ripping gillick...same guy who brought in moyer(after the trading deadline, no less), aquired lohse last year (then offered him more money than anyone else only to see boras overplay his hand), got some pretty decent role players (werth, dobbs, not sure but I think victorino). Oh yeah, and he completely pants'ed Eddie in Houston for Lidge. He's done some dumb stuff (eaton, garcia), but he's done more good than bad.
So if you're going to complain at least say what he should have done, and also try to spell correctly. Makes you look double-dumb if you can't spell on top of a stupid comment.
what a shock--the next time the Phils make a big deal at the deadline
will be the 1st--any wonder why this team hasn't won a World Series in
28 years?
Comment removed.
I can't believe there are so many people who know so little about baseball. What could the Phillies possibly have traded that another club would want? All we have is Howard Utley Rollins and Hamels. We could trade Happ and Carrasco but they are not even in the top 50 of minor league prospects. We would have to package other players with them. Wait I know...we could trade Adam Eaton for Manny. People always want to trade nothing and get something. It just doesn't happen.
More idiots than usual posting today... There was no deal out there that the Phils could have made. Teams wanted to raid our prospects (who we will need in about 1-2 years) or take players we need to win now. Who is expendable in the day to day lineup that teams would want? Or were we supposed to trade last years MVP due to an off year? Most of Philly fans make me sick the, but the few that are actually intelligent realize that there was no move tha blew us away. Making a trade simply to make one is what losers do... (Please see Braves, Reds, etc...) The Phills will win the divsion and NOBODY wants to see us in the playoffs! Pat haters shut up and remember where we were BEFORE Gillick. Quit listening to Eskin and WATCH a game or two!
It makes me sick to read from all the fools who say there wasn't any help out there. There have been players/starters for weeks and months let alone now. There were some decent relievers out there this week. Get it through your clouded minds that they don't want to spend for more pitching. Why do you think Myers is back, with no trade for a starter? If many of you are burned up about the inaction over the last 6-8 months you have every right to be.
The problem is not salary but they do not spend the money in scouting and developing players. If Carasco is such a great propect why did Gillick say last week that he is s future number 3! Way to devalue your players. Also did anyone else notice that all the big names who have been traded have come to the NL? Griffey does not count. He is washed up.
Ruiz needs to move as does Eaton and Myers, put Happ in starting rotation, Coste can start every game with the minor leage phenom that Pat would never include in a trade backing him up
Earlier today Jim Salisbury reported that ALL Manny Ramirez deals were dead. This afternoon, the LA-Boston-Pittsburgh deal goes down for Ramirez.
Obviously Salisbury missed this one, and is not as tied-in as he thinks.
Of course, we'd all be here in 2-3 years griping about the prospects who would then be in the bigs that the Phils traded away for some mid-level rent-a-pitcher this year...
Hey Phillies fan-How about Burrell for Manny? Oh wait Pat is having a career year in his contract year.. another shocker. How about
J.A Happ for Pudge? Oh, that's right, Pat doesn't like the way he call a game. How about Madson for A.Beltre? How about a little creativity.....???
Can you say Blanton???? They did warn us that they were only looking for a second-tier guy. Don't you guys listen!!!!! Basically what they have told us is the following: Al Davis says just win baby; the Phillies moto is just stay competitive boys so we can stuff our pockets... The Eagles do the same thing. At least the Flyers go for it, but come up short... GO FLYERS!!!!! I can't give my heart to these other Philly Teams.....
What's up with all the people saying 'who did you want?' 'What was out there.." fools. a ton got moved this year. CC, Griffey, the cubs picked up an ace. And look at the yankees...they picked up Nady, who is solid, and more to the point, they realized they could improve at catcher, and they went out and got one of the best in the game. Sure, they have more money then us, but don't try and fool me on some 'we're broke' bs. We're not broke. Names like Holiday hanging out there, Manny. And not have the pieces to make a move? Prices didnt even seem that high...look at the manny trade, and Farmsworth for Pudge?! Phills could still win it, but it is shamefull to have a such a great core group, but not the guts to play for the moment, and go for it all. We all could have predicted this trade deadline result months ago, and that it a bad sign
MichaelZoe The Mets got CC? Hello, the Brewers got Sabathia. The Phillies have nothing other clubs want. Is it possible you believe the Phillies didn't even talk to the Indians? I really don't get how people on these boards don't get it. Most of these opinions sound like echos of H. Eskin who is clueless on the Philles and baseball. He may know football, but he does not know baseball.
for anyone says there was no deal to be made, the ChiSox got Griffey, Yankees got Pudge. Those deals could go either way, but there is always a deal to be made
Who can tell us where Gillick lives?
Bottom line this team doesn't really want to win it all-just enough to stay competitive and draw 3 mil. at CBP. The Jeffrey Lurie school
of team ownership. Never fails, we keep coming back.
What do you expect from a loser Organization. This ownership is a joke and could care less about winning a World Series.
They are good team and make a ton of $$ because they are just good enough to keep the fan base off their back. The Ownership is in a perfect situation for their Objectives.
Gillick is a spare, but the whole front office is useless and "it" merely rolls down hill. It sickens me that they are all about the business side of things, and really only care to put a very good product on the field, instead of a stellar one. I would hope that we now try to load up the farm system. Thanks for the portly Joe Blanton though. He has certainly looked like the real deal.
I wish the Phillies could at least build a decent farm system so one day we can actually make a huge trade deadline deal that puts the team over the top
as a lifetime philly fan i cannot wait until gillick is gone,what a joke,they are a mediocre 5oo club and will end up that way,thanks gillick for nothing..
Comment removed.
Thats a nice dream usonis. Everyone knows Ruban Amaro will be the next GM. They've been grooming him for years for the position. Amaro is part of the whole old Ed Wade regime. I dont want someone that already has ties to the organization. Thats the whole problem. The people in the organization dont care. They do just enough to stay competitive and make money. They'll never overspend to make that 1 final move to put them over the top. And when they do overspend its on S*it. How can you rationalize paying someone like Eaton $24million when he has never done anything in his career and was also injured alot over the years. Maybe im looking at the wrong stats but where on God's green earth do you see stats that justify paying him that money. They are cheap but to a point. Its not even the cheapness that annoys me its the stupidity. Even when they spend the money they spend it on the wrong people. They have no clue. I want someone that has nothing to do with this organization to run the team. But you know what even if that happens he'll only have enough money to work with that the owners allow him to use. They set a budget and stick with it. They have plenty more to spend but they make up their mind ahead of time and thats that. THE ONLY FREAKIN MOVE THIS ORGANZATION NEEDS TO MAKE IS TO GET NEW OWNERS. OWNERS THAT ACTUALLY FOLLOW BASEBALL AND CARE ABOUT THE SPORT AND DONT JUST LOOK AT THIS TEAM AS ONE OF THEIR MANY FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS. Look at Steinbrenner. The man HATES to lose. Absolutely hates it. Does anyone even know who our owners are anyway? Has anyone ever seen them. With all the losing they've done in our lifetime have you ever seen our owner(s) come out publicly and throw tirade or fit because of the amount of losing we've done like Steinbrenner does. Steinbrenner might be an a*s but at least he cares.
The Phils looked into getting Sabathia-didn't have what Cleveland wanted as far as propects. For those of you who wanted Manny, picture this:crucial series with the Mets where the teams are tied in the standings and Manny gets a hangnail or something and sits out, like he did against the Yankees last week. Or if Manny didn't like playing rightfield and looks at three called strikes, like he also has done. Would you be cheering him then? The Halliday rumor was just that, a rumor, Colorado wasn't going to trade him or Fuentes, they are both still there. Phils looked into Greg Maddux, he didn't want to pitch here. Don't listen to Eskin, he's only the mouthpiece for the Eagles. Ever here him getting any inside info on the other three teams? Oh, yeah, he broke that story about Utley's debilitating hip injury from Gillick, the one Ruben Amaro even contradicted, along with Utley and his wife. Get real, guys, while I would like to have gotten something, pickings were pretty slim. As Joe Namath once said, "It's 3 AM and Miss America just ain't comin' in."
The Phillies are in first, did we gorget? Relax hammers.
Terrible trade for the White Sox anyhow, their outfield sucks..
Why should they make any deals to take them over the top. You suckers pay to see them the way they are
I am not suprised that Pat dint get some one. His not a good maneger.He shuold be fire and so Amaro or sendem to the minors and bring some minors picher up to give them a try.
MikeZoe, hey genius you clearly dont know much, Milwaukee is not in our division. As for personnel, LaPorta was a top 30 prospect in the minors, we had nothign similiar. Most of you sound like a bunch of little kids who whine when mommy won't buy you want you want at the toy store. Its real simple, stop b-tching like child or find another team to root for, crybabies
ThinkTwice, Pudge is hardly the best C in the game, I'd go with McCann, Mauer, Martin, and so on. Pudge has 5 hR and 30 RBI, Coste actually has better numbers. Thanks for coming out.
I thought that Wade was bad but Gillick's tenure with the Phillies hasn't been so good either. Just look at the players that he brought in: Eaton, Jenkins, Garcia (without a physical exam), Disabled list Gordon, Helms, letting go of Rowand. In addition, have you looked at the standings of the Phillies minor league teams? Pathetic.
Who were they going to get? What does this team need? This team needs to play better- we have the players.
No RG---this is just 40 years of frustration and BS from this team.My guess is you're too young to feel any of the pain and frustration a true Phillies' fan feels.
Wow... you guys are all all-star GMs. I love it. I know so much more about baseball having just read some of these great comments.
Bottom line to all you dumba$$e$ is that Ed Wade depleted the minor league system. Pat has ZERO cards to deal to make a major impact. You do realize that if he dealt Jason Donald, Carlos Carrasco and/or Lou Marson that the system would be EMPTY again? You can only do so much.
There is no reason to get rid of those guys now. The team is good enough right now to win the NL East. The hottest team is going to win the NL and go to the World Series anyway. Hopefully the bats get hot, and Myers, Blanton and Moyer pitch effectively enough to win some games.
I LOVE this team and the way its built for the long run. The rotation will look good with Hamels, Blanton, Kendrick, Happ and Carrasco next year. Replace Ruiz/Coste with Marson, and re-sign Burrell. The pieces are here. They just need to tweak it. Plus there are some great free agents out there this year.
tothehouse, simple solution: root for another team then. Its really not life and death. And BTW, I love the 40 yrs reference, they've had multiple ownership groups and GMs over that time (actually won a world series and reach a few others), so what would you blame it on, cursed uniforms? Personally, I think Philly fans are whiny babies fueled by idiots like Eskin and players hate it here. Go to a Mets board and see if their fans are whining as much, and they are in 2nd place. Grow up.
This just in- Lame duck (or is that just lame) GM Pat Gillick and the gang of six have been traded; new ownership coming in and hiring Brian Cashman so that we don't completely waste this line-up; one of the best potential line-ups we've had in a while......first 2 moves/ extend Howard and Burrell and get rid of the dead wood that doesn't want to contribute and let Cashman fine tune from there.....oh well it was good wishful thinking!!
No I would blame it on terrible ownership. How much has this team won since Bill Giles has owned or part owned this team? I'll tell you-
one playoff series and 2 Div titles in 24 years. Just because people care about their team doesn't mean they're "whiny babies" When does school start anyway?
Stand Pat/owners wouldn't even make a trade to give the illusion that they wanted to improve our team. At least the rest of the "East" didn't make any deals either. They "stood pat" too ! !
Here is what i think:
http://novasportspicks.com/DannyRogersblog/2008/07/phillies_dont_make_trade_at_de.html#comments
this hasn't been a 40 year problem if you remember Ruly carpenter did sign Pete Rose which solidified the world series for us then he saw the writing on the wall and sold the team because he didn't want to own a team through free agency and skyrocketting contracts and he got out......fact of the matter is Philly IS a large market pulling from harrisburg to scranton to bethesda to atlantic city and there is enough revenue to spend for a couple front line pitchers and STILL sign Burrell and Howard;...they simply don't want to and don't have to and they're raking the money in hand over fist........the formula for winning requires money and its been proven that winning titles DOES bring in lots and lots of revenue- merchandise, tickets, national media exposure etc......this ownership group doesn't get it and thats why they must SELL; we won't have a title until this group is gone,...they are doing this great city a grave dis-service
Maddy44: Wrong, FLA won twice in 10 years and still has attendance and revenue problems. Tothehouse, its one thing to care, its another to get apopalyptic over imaginary deals that didn't materialize. Once again, what place are the Phils in?
I think Gillick has made some serious errors in judgement with some of the high priced free agents. Moreover, I think the Garcia trade hurt more than people realize. We gave up our best farm hand and a decent pitching prospect for damaged goods. I don't think the Phillies had much to give so I'm not surprised nothing was done. I think the damage was done a long time ago. Gillick has done a great job with marginal acquisitions but the high profile ones have foundered. He has a tough job and as long as he is working hard. I ll stick with him as long as he is a philly. Go Phils.
Get ready for more of the same when Gillick leaves and Amaro Jr takes over. This is like the Eagles part 2..so close..yet so very far away and no guts to do what it takes to get the ring
Too bad the paper could not trade Jim Salisbury...
Good thing there's 20 teams in MLB with worse records than the Phils. Otherwise people might get mad.
Once again, how many World Series victories do the Phils have in 125 years? I'm impressed by such big words--I shouldn't be surprised,
you do know it all don't you? It must be nice to have sh*t that doesn't stink. Maybe you should apply for Gillick's job? You are the voice of reason.
How many World Series had the Sox won in 100 yrs before '04? How bout Cubs fans? Did they still support their teams or scream woe is me? Maybe we could make you GM since you can do better than someone who does own a World Series ring in Gillick.
Good point "daddy I'm scared"... I come to expect the Phillies to come up short with the pieces but the Eagles are the most disappointing of all. My sister who doesn't know anything about football even knows that the Birds need a number one receiver. The whole city knows it. A one receiver makes everyone better and opens things up for Westbrooke, Curtis and Jackson. I m very disappointed in the Eagles and how they let down the best fans in the nation year in and year out is beyond my comprehension.
The phillies didn't have much to give so we shouldn't be surprised. There are few stars in the farm system and they need to keep people like Donald, Marson and Carrasco for the future. The Phillies have made enough moves to put the team over the top... the problem is... Eaton, Garcia, Jenkins, ect ect were pathetically bad miscalculations. That said, Gillick has done a masterful job with the lower end acquisitions. As long as he works hard, we can't criticize him but only he knows if his efforts were true. I have no idea.
RG you don't seem to understand the issue. It's true that Gillick has the ring. He knows what to do. The problem is that Montgomery doesn't have one, and he is the one running the team and the money. Go ahead. You and the rest of the apologists make excuses for them. We who have watched this team for over 40 years know better.
Bob1, not apologizing at all, but I'm not gonna stomp my feet and hold my breath over ownership, which I can't change. As for the money, they're at a $100 mil payroll, and about half the teams above them have worse records. Meanwhile both TB and FLA are in their races with the bottom 2 payrolls.
Yes, the Cubs have only won 2 World Series (1 more than the Phillies), however, at least you can see that their ownership is trying to win. Look at the aquisitions they have made over the last 2 years. How about getting Harden? They go for first rate players, while we go for the Blanton's and Felizs of the baseball world. hard to build excitement about that.
Yeah, good point on the Cubs, I forgot they had a trio of MVP type players they drafted and developed. I guess Lidge was a second rate player too.
Fact is, Gillick has done an excellent job with the lower end acquisitions. Romero and Werth have been huge for the phillies. The phillies have great depth in the field. Yes, Gillick fouled up the major acquisitions and yes the phillies have unmet needs. Lets see if he can get us a sleeper in August, to save Romero some innings. I think Phillies fans have every right to criticize decisions and I think Philly fans are the smartest around. We need to support the people we have and the more positive we are... the harder they work for us... If the Phillies promised to play harder than everyone else that is all I want.... I want Rollins hustling on every play. We have a legitimate shot at a World Series despite all the deficiencies. Think about it... We have a 45 year old Wizard on the mound... We have Gopher ball Blanton pitching in Citizens Bank Park... Super Gopher Ball Eaton is no longer good enough to throw on our staff lol. This will be a wild run. Get excited for the guys we have....
milk, I agree the bold, big moves haven't worked (but honestly, coudl anyone see Gavin Floyd pitching like this?!?!?). I'm fine with criticism, Phils need to do better with drafting and developing to improve the farm system as well. I'm just tired of the doom and gloom surrounding afirst place team because they didnt "go for it". The Mets "went for it" with Glavine, Pedro, Delgado, Beltran, Wagner, and Johan. Yet if they finish second again will their fans be satisfied that ownership wasn't cheap?
But keep coming down to the park! Do they see the window? Do they think it will be open forever? no effort to improve! Pat you s*ck!
Someday in hell there will be a day where the fans have a say in player personel instead of morons who do not know what sports are. once again pat stands still when there were needs to be met. sure a minor leaguer may needed to be sacrificed but the cubs, brewers, dodgers all made themselves contenders by gettting a good pitcher and their success is showing already. lets pray the phillies will overcome tht
Is Moyer 45 lol? Anyone else proud as hell of this guy.... I think he should get the Cy Young if he wins 16 games... I don't care about stats... When Moyer pitches, the phillies have a shot to win every time this year. Is he the second coming of Christ? Is it time for apostles to start writing down everything he says? He could be the first active pitcher to collect social security.
Mr. Social Security is the phils season co-MVP... Lidge has been a model of consistency too:).... consistency is an underrated part of baseball...
Why trade for the sake of making a trade, they're in first place, pitching has been o.k. I'd like another bat but not at the sake of any major prospect (do they have any major prospects?). If Feliz back problem lingers & Rolen clears waivers...
RG-the fact is they SHOULD have seen Floyd being able to develop-they didn't-they got F.Garcia for him and now he's gone. They got nothing to show for Abreu and Lidle and for every Lidge they have obtained, they have 3 Sal Fasanos, Adam Eatons and Alex Gonzalezs
I watched Floyd, looked like he was ready to cr-p himself on the mound. I don't remember three Fasanos, but I do remeber him signing Dobbs, Werth, Durbin trading for Iguchi, Rowand, Lohse, Moyer, grabbing Romero from the waiver wire, getting Vic in rule 5. Those moves have worked out fairly well, but why look at the positives?
Another year goes by without any help. We should be used to it by now. Maybe we can waive Gillick in August.
It's impossible for any of us to make a valid trade proposal because we "zero" inside information. We have absolutely no idea what other teams are thinking what they're telling us, what they're asking for, etc......The only information we have is what the media gives us. That said, as a fan I can say I wish we were able to get a few very good players to help us win the Series, but I have no idea what was even possible since I am not in communication with other teams' GM's. The Phils front office and ownership has many problems, but sometimes deals are just not possible. There are probably 10-12 teams who were looking to make some moves and only a few of those actually did...most of which were small "band-aid" moves. Any idea how many fans are screaming at THEIR GM's for doing nothing of consequence? Many, I'm sure. No, the time to address some of this teams' problems were this past offseason or even the previous offseason. Eaton may go down as one of the worst FA signings of the past 10-15 years. No idea what Gillick was thinking there, but that move not only gave us a terrible pitcher, but it cost the team $24 million...money which could have gone to a decent player. We're told that the way for the Phils to win this thing is for the players to play better...no duh. Brilliant observation. I think if 85% of all MLB players played better, there would never be reason for trades and no team would have a losing record. I guess we just have faith that our players will get better faster than their players.
RG's post is spot on. Gillick has made fantastic moves to keep us in contention. We have never had someone in Phillies management who has added so many integral pieces by giving up so little. Again, outside of Lidge, his major acquisitions were flops but you can't fault the efforts. The only trade i m miffed about was the Garcia deal. If Garcia was healthy, the deal made sense to a degree but I think the White Sox screwed us by withholding information on Garcia.
Where are Rowand, Lohse, Iguchi, Garcia, Abreu now? RG- do you work for the Phillies? (seriously). If not, you should, you are the biggest apologist for a team I've seen since the Eagles' Dave Spadaro. All you need is a jug of Kool-Aid and a chair in Ashburn Alley in the Summer.
No,there were no deals out there...take the blinders off your sheep!!!!
How about CC, Harden, Bay, Nady...nope no one out there but Big Joe Blanton and his Eaton like era. 8 mil a year for eaton..you are all right, gillicks doing a great job!!!!
keep buying those tickets sheep
The Eaton move was horrific and the Garcia move still has ramifications. People forget that Gio Gonzalez was in that deal... He is major league ready now and one of the finest young arms in minor league baseball. Gonzalez is more mature than Carrasco and a better pitcher right now. Garcia was damaged goods from day one and that trade has affected the phillies up till the present. We don't make the Blanton move if we have Floyd and Gonzalez. Furthermore, we keep important young prospects. I can't believe how one really bad move can have such a devastating effect.
Again, I think Gillick's moves mentioned by RG were fantastic... Did the White Sox withhold information on Garcia... We will never know... the Garcia trade was a very bad break for the organization.
This bypass does not suprise me at all Gillick! Now what would suprise me would be a half decent trade. Mabe getting rid of bruttlett or getting a better pitcher by trading werth.
You guys are ruthless lol. Gillick has made some great acquisitions to keep the Phillies in contention. How soon we forget that the Phillies had the worst bullpen in the national league last year. Suddenly, the phillies have a reliable pen thanks to Gillick's acquisitions. Nobody dreamed of the pen's performance. Feliz and Jenkins were fairly consistent players before arriving in Philadelphia and haven't panned out thus far. Yes, Gillick made some devastating mistakes but he is human. I think we need to recognize that while he made several bad high profile moves; he has made a ton of great marginal acquisitions. I don't like the Blanton move but I m not a baseball expert or a Phillies scout. I don't understand why you would place a fly ball pitcher in the Bank...
i was happy that manny was out of the nl east race,until i saw the remaining schedule....the phils play the dodgers 8 times!
I think in order to get some of our money back on Eaton the Phillies should run a promotion... I think it should be a fan appreciation day... Every fan gets a free egg... We have Eaton stand on the pitchers mound after the game and let the fans use their appropriate discretion... Really, i don't blame Eaton; he was always a bad pitcher but could he humor us for the management's bad move....lol...
Rowand took an insane deal from a bad team and is in last place, as is Iguchi. Abreus on the outside looking in for a playoff spot. Lohse turned down # yr and $21 mil for a 1 yr $4.5 mil deal (and do yourself a favor, look at his career #s, same as eatons). Where's Dobbs? Leading the league in pinch hitting. Where's Werth? Hitting .275 w/ 14 Hrs. Where's Vic, strating CF. Where's Lidge 25/25 in save opps. Where's Moyer, 10 wins. Where's Utley and Rollins, signed to long term deals at reasonable prices.
I think in order to get some of our money back on Eaton the Phillies should run a promotion... I think it should be a fan appreciation day... Every fan gets a free egg... We have Eaton stand on the pitchers mound after the game and let the fans use their appropriate discretion... Really, i don't blame Eaton; he was always a bad pitcher but could he humor us for the management's bad move....lol...
Ramirez is a tool. I would say he is a fruit cake but that might be too complimentary. What kind of woman would marry a man like that? It would be like living with an 8 year old. Ramirez is one of those few people who develop cognitively up till a certain point and suddenly stops at age 8... If the Phils signed him, I wouldn't have watched another game.
Crybabies.
RG-I never said Gillick was a bad GM-I was merely stating that when it
comes to putting this team over the top, the Phillies for the last 25 yrs. NEVER take a chance and make the kind of risky move that it sometimes take to win it ALL, not just the division. do you honestly think the Phillies have enough pitching (starting) to win the World Series? Don't let the sweep og the minor league Nationals fool you.
Enough said---see ya!
The Phillies absolutely did better then every team in the division which is the first goal. Nice job Gillick.
The GM's job is to look at the "entire organization" every day from a near term (now, next 2 months), medium term (next 1-2 seasons), and long term and balance it all. The Phillies have had and continue to have significant medium term issues...next up, Burrel, Howard, Genkins, Werth, Victorino, the pithcing staff. The field staff's job is to put together the best performance in the short term (the season), and Manuel and staff have gotten the Phils to the top of their division last year and probably this year. Point to this is that this team will by neccessity next year and the following year look significantly different then the team that went to the playoffs last season and this year. Gillick's job is to make sure Manuel et al. can compete like they are now 2 years from now and beyond. As perspective, the "Big Red Machine" lineup only actually played together about 100 games over 2 + seasons....chemistry is fragile.
I like what I hear about the young prospects and look forward to seeing them, in very limited roles, this September.
Gillick knew he could not make a major move prior to the deadline. The asking prices were too high..Remember Billy King???? snookered into bad deals..Understand making moves to make moves is haste...King can attest to that..Gillick did not have chips he thought would validate making a move...Major League baseball did not ahve a buyer's market.. the sellers had the leverage and asked for outrageous returns...It is about negotiating, understanding the market, understanding the value of layers, understanding alternative value...
Brilliant... somebody suggesting that we can trade Werth and Bruntlett for a stud starting pitcher or a big bat. This team has made enough wrong moves in the last 2 years (Garcia, Eaton) that we've handicapped ourselves, and deluded our fans into thinking that every other GM makes stupid deals like that.
im really suprised ANOTHER year has gone by without a big trade happening..even with its been speculated for weeks.
i still think this team can go to the playoffs..but not much else honastly.
Junior Griffey goes to Chisox for two suspect minor leaguers, a 2nd baseman hitting .230 and a pitcher with a losing record. Could Junior have helped us? Of course he would have. This is stupid. We're sitting with two nonproducing guys in outfield, Taguchi and Jenkins, and we let this guy pass. What are we thinking of, anyway? Is Gillick just going through the motions? The guy's announced his retirement. How much effort is he really putting into his job? That's the real question.
Not much has changed since the days when Bill Giles was the Phillies self-appointed GM. In the eighties, Bill Giles just sat around and did nothing while the Mets acquired Keith Hernandez and Gary Carter. All the Mets had to give up was Hubie Brooks and a bunch of prospects who never amounted to much. Meanwhile, the Phillies held onto Rick Schu, the next Mike Schmidt.
Wow, can you believe the number of negative posts ?
Pretty soon these "antis" will be calling for Mr Baseball, 'Wheels' to be axed
Pat Gillick is a wagina. You can kiss the pennant goodbye because everybody knows pitching rules the playoffs. Remind me again why we pay this guy?
145 comments | View All By Latest | Paginate Comments
Get it now
Philly.com Promotions
- News | Sports | Business | What's Happening | Restaurants & Food | Entertainment | Living | Marketplace | Jobs
Site Services:
Classifieds:
- Jobs | Cars | Real Estate | Rentals | Marketplace | Celebrations
Partners:
