Moyer says Phils "misled" him, Phils respond
I was on the radio before the clubhouse opened and was asked if Moyer would criticize the team for moving him to the bullpen. I said no, Jamie Moyer might be privately grousing, but he is way to savvy and protective of his own image to rip the team in public. I was very, very, wrong.
Moyer says Phils "misled" him, Phils respond
Andy Martino
I was on the radio before the clubhouse opened and was asked if Moyer would criticize the team for moving him to the bullpen. I said no, Jamie Moyer might be privately grousing, but he is way to savvy and protective of his own image to rip the team in public. I was very, very, wrong.
Here's a more fully fleshed out description of the events as they unfolded:
Jamie Moyer sat alone in the stands at Wrigley Field this afternoon, staring at the infield. He made his major league debut here on June 16, 1986, pitching for the Cubs against the Phillies and his boyhood hero, Steve Carlton.
After a few silent minutes, he sent for the media, and expressed strong displeasure about a late-career development. Moyer, 46, is 10-9, with a 5.47 earned run average this season, and Monday was assigned to the bullpen to accommodate Pedro Martinez, who will make his Phillies debut today as a member of the starting rotation.
“I’m really not happy with this decision that the Phillies have made,” Moyer said. “I will take what they’ve asked me to do, but I’m not real excited about the decision that’s been made.”
Moyer said that, when he negotiated his TK contract with the Phils last winter, he felt that an understanding existed between him, general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. and owner David Montgomery that he would start.
"I feel like I've been misled,” Moyer said. “I’m a little disheartened a little bit because I know this past winter when I was negotiating with the Phillies, this was a sore thumb, if you will, about this potentially happening. Ruben [Amaro Jr.], you can’t promise anything in this game, but I really felt that Ruben kind of parlayed to me that this type of situation would not happen.
“I actually even had some conversation with David [Montgomery], and them reassuring me this type of situation won’t happen. Again, I’m a little disheartened by the way it’s happened, how it’s happened.”
Amaro and Montgomery were not in Chicago with the team. Amaro said through a team representative that “When we signed Jamie Moyer it was under the pretense of him being a starter. But right now circumstances have changed….we’re not going to get into any contract negotiations. That’s between players and club.”
Manager Charlie Manuel said that the decision to remove Moyer from the rotation was agonizing. “The toughest decision I ever made,” Manuel said. “It was very hard. What do you want me to say?”
Manuel added that while he did not know what Moyer’s role in the bullpen would be, he would feel comfortable utilizing the lefty as he does Scott Eyre, in hey situations against lefthanded hitters.
“We will look for places to pitch him and keep him sharp and you never know what’s going to happen,” he said.
Martinez said that “he has all the regard in the world” for Moyer. “I don’t have enough words to say how I feel about Jamie.”
Moyer, on the other hand, has no trouble finding words. “Whether I like it or not, this is the situation I’m in,” he said. “I will deal with it. I will deal with it in a respectful way. I’ll be respectful to my teammates. I do not want to be a distraction, and I refuse to be a distraction. It’s about the 25 players that are here and are playing. We all have to pick each other up. We all have to support each other And we all have to be professional."
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You be the judge: Was HE being professional today?
Comments (130)
I have no problem with this as long as the complaints stop here. I didnt expect him to be like "this... is... AWESOME! I cannot wait to sit in the bullpen all game!". if he said he wasnt dissapointed, then I would have a problem. hell, I would tell him to retire. as long as he doesnt complain or whine about it after today, I am fine with this. jamie was part of great story last year, and I hope the fans give him a huge ovation when he steps out of the bullpen and on to the mound for the 1st time in philly.— ChampAnderson
Comment removed.- Moyer is 6-2 with a 3.88 ERA on the road. Just start him on the road. Why is that so difficult to figure out??— Gnip Gnop
- If he didnt want to complain......how and why did say what he said to the papers.....I am suprised....— schwike
- what did you expect him to say? "I stink, im a loser, such a letdown." cmon, Moyer has some pride, he's just displaying that fire. leave it alone.
- Moyer needs to shut up and act like a man. He won his championship and Carrassco could not win a spot in spring training, plus the phillies stuck to their word and gave Chan Ho Park the 5th spot they promised him when they signed him. Think how much better the record would be if we let Happ have the spot in the rotation he deserved from day 1. The Phillies have been loyal to the old man, but there are limits, and his ineffectiveness has proven detrimental to the team. Play-off baseball is much tighter then regular season, every pitch matters, and you cannot spot a team 5 runs through 2 frames and expect to win in a 7 game series. Whether or not he wins the rotation spot back this year or not, he should do the honorable thing and retire, he is stealing money this year and he is not getting any better...the phillies will not cut him, they would still be responsible for his salary, if he retires they are off the hook. The phillies would be better off bringing up Andrew Carpenter or Kyle Kendrick, who have both been extremely effective in Lehigh this year. Thanks for the memories of last year, take your ball and go home.— tkohl
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- He held the Phils up for a second year on his contract. So far, it looks like a big gift for him. Would he rather be in Kansas City?— StevenT
- TIME TO MOW THE LAWN, JAMIE... 2 YRS. CONTRACT WAS YOUR GIFT
- TIME TO MOW THE LAWN, JAMIE... 2 YRS. CONTRACT WAS YOUR GIFT
- What did you want Jamie, a guarantee that as much as you could suck, you will always have a position in the rotation? That's not the way life works. I constantly hear what a professional he is. If he is such a professional, TEAM player - he should keep his mouth shut and stop whining. I think Pedro is going to flop anyway, so in the next month he will be back. Why should I think Pedro is going to be successful - he sucked in the minor leagues, and by the 5th inning he was toast.— Bobphxville
- Thanks for pouring your heart out for the team and the city Jamie...Hopefully, there's a few more big time performances left in that arm of yours...There was no way to predict that Myers would get injured; Hamels would struggle; they'd sign Pedro; Happ would excel; and They'd pull of the excellent trade for Lee and that he'd actually be great. Don't burn any bridges and perhaps the light will shine on you as the season progresses. But the change had to be made.— hope55
- C'mon Jamie you really think you were guaranteed a spot in the rotation no matter the performance of your pitching? Your contract is guaranteed so its not like you will be losing any money. Your ERA is atrociously high and you have all those wins because of the Phillies offense. Phillies have to whats best for them and giving Pedro a chance to pitch is what they need to do.— pdditty
- moyer has had his 15 minutes of spotlight last year. He needs to know his skills are diminishing and take a seat in the pen and teach the young pitchers how to pitch like a crafty old pro. He has more value as a coach than a player now and the phillies should fire dubee and give moyer his job.— bull48
- Jamie, there is no "I" in "TEAM"! Of course your ego is bruised right now. If you can't deal with being in the bullpen, then please announce your retirement soon. Thank you for your years of service to the Phillies and retire gracefully while the getting out is good.— sspn09
- Oh...Oh...Oh...Jamie's crying...— scottash
- I have no problem with Jamie Moyer publicly stating his displeasure. I'd be surprised if he didn't. But, it has to stop here. Any continued public display of negative feelings by Moyer will be unprofessional and selfish on his part. We'll see what happens.— Fan of Philly
- I thought Moyer was a classy guy and a clubhouse leader. Sure, he had an agreement with Amaro, but at some point it became clear that Moyer couldn't hold up his end of the deal by maintaining a reasonable ERA. He should consider himself lucky, another team might have assigned him outright...look at Smoltz.
- Jamie...You have the second-highest ERA in the NL. Which other World Series winner that you were on carried a starting pitcher that performed as poorly as you have? Who told you to give up so many early runs this year? We need to find someone who can do better.
- Jamie you can still help us....this is not last year when everything clicked. We will need some extra effort from everybody to repeat this year. Everyone must swallow their pride sometime in life and just follow the status quo. You may be back in the rotation sooner than you think! Help us out in the bullpen and get another ring...what could be sweeter than that!— flabird1954
- This is about what is good for the Phillies. Jamie needs to realize that it's not open ended with repsect to being a starting pitcher. He hedl the Phillies up for a second year on his contract whcih will turn out to be a big gift for an outdated pitcher. He is only effective with a liberal umpire whi gives him hte questionable corners on the plate. He has the highest ERA on team. If Phillies don't score average 7 plus runs, he take a lose. Baseball is about wins, loses and winning world series. Lets stop acting like Moyer is the sometype of layal Phillies player. He has only been with team for just over 2 years. We aren't talking aboout Jimmy Rollins or Chase Utley.— thebaron
- Does anyone think that Pedro is any better than Jamie Moyer? I am neither for or against the move, the Phillies should be able to do what they think is best for the team to win. FYI, Pedro has been lit up in a few innings by by Double and Triple A hitters. What do you think the big boys are going to do to him? I predict that Moyer will be back in the starting lineup by September.— doocer
- Bring Moyer out of the pen only when umps with strike zones extending to Bucks County (Feasterville) are working behind the plate. Otherwise, keep him there to teach Lidge how not to be a head case. Moyer will be back as a starter tossing fat ones with agonizing regularity when Pedro implodes, or sooner if Hamels doesn't emerge from his maternity-leave stupor.— rollskreet
I have no problem with what he said but, as Champ said at the begining of the comments, as long as we don't hear it again after today. Of course some "reporter" will ask him about it again, and I just hope he "no comments" them back. Jamie's the consumate professional and a true competitor AND HE HAS MORE WINS THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THE TEAM, so he's earned the right to be upset about this AND the right to gripe about it in public - once. My 30+ years of watching this sport tells me that he'll be back again before the end of the regular season, so don't go pushing him out to retirement just yet. Plus, who says Pedro's not going to get smacked around - there's a reason AAA hitters are not on big league rosters, you know.- Bullpen or waiver wire. He needs to look at his numbers, horrible. Not to mention he only goes 5 innings.— Nezhy
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- He needs to pitch better if he wants to remain a starter.— ChrisM
- Not going to be a distraction, Jaime? You just made yourself one!!! I thought you had a lot more class than this....take one for the team this time around. Man up! You've stunk this year!— Phront_Runner
- The team was mislead Jamie, you told them you could still pitch and held them up for a 2 year deal.— brs50
- Jamie, you actually should have retired last year on a high note. Don't sweat it, Pedro will be on the DL shortly.— acanders
- I feel misled too - I thought the Phils saw something I didn't see when they gave him two years. Guess not. To paraphrase T.O.'s former spokesperson, Jamie's got 14 million reasons to just shut up and move over.
- I'm rather surprised that Jamie spoke out this way. If he chose to not be a distraction then why voice his complaints to the media. He should, after all these years, realize that nothing in professional sports is guaranteed. He certainly has not pitched well, and though he may deserve better as a clubhouse good guy, the team is what matters. I'm quite sure that no player likes to be removed from his spot, but if your thirdbaseman is hitting .200 come August you look for a replacement. Same with a starter with a 5.5ERA. He has not pitched well, and maybe some rest will do him some good. And Pedro hasn't even thrown a pitch yet so we'll see how that goes. I was really happy when the club signed him again, but at his age it was never a sure thing. He's been out pitched by Happ, and the addition of Lee and now Pedro made this move necessary for the betterment of the T-E-A-M. He can teach those youngsters a thing or two in the bullpen like a trooper. This spoils his reputation as a team guy.— AlanInFlorida
- Jamie went to the press. Thought hard about it and did it anyway. Talk to Charlie, Ruben and Dave but not through the press. After all these years, he knows better or should have. Giving him two years was pure charity. Let him go pitch in a huge park, where he might have a chance. i'm not sure every 5th day, we have to worry about scoring 6 to have a chance. But Moyer thinks it is good enough. Team man.— oldBird
- Jamie went to the press. Thought hard about it and did it anyway. Talk to Charlie, Ruben and Dave but not through the press. After all these years, he knows better or should have. Giving him two years was pure charity. Let him go pitch in a huge park, where he might have a chance. i'm not sure every 5th day, we have to worry about scoring 6 to have a chance. But Moyer thinks it is good enough. Team man.— oldBird
- it was a political descion nothing more,if you go on stats alone any number of phillies should be replaced— soliteryman
Yes, he was professional. He is expressing a balance between losing his role as a starter--the only role he's known for 12 years--and a grudging acceptance that he'll respect what is (maybe) best for the team. He has a right to say he was misled, but at the same time, his performance has deteriorated with an ERA almost 2 runs higher than last year. He realizes that is why this decision had to be made. I commend Jamie for his guts and his service, both as a teammate and most worthy off the field activities.- Take your 13.6 million and be quiet.— Hatfield_ham
- as shocked as I am moyer would say anything disparaging, I am even more shocked at the venom that has been spit at him from philly "fans", and I... oh wait, I forgot the main thing here. PHILLY "fans". you guys seriously embarrass me. I hope you're mets trolls, but I know you're just the usual unsatisfiable, unreasonable a-hole philadelphia "fans". I would also like to bring up that I am not happy with harry kalas' work this season. dying on the job? unacceptable harry. I'll be startin up a flash mob to go pee on his grave. anyone interested go to www.youreprobablyanahole.com for details.— ChampAnderson
- TFB. If he didn't own the highest ERA of any starter in the NL he would still be in the rotation. What does he have to complain about? Just look at the numbers.— BobbyD
- a dishearted Moyer is the worst on our problems. I am concerned about Utley and Howard. I haven't seen Utley this lost at the plate..ever. We need more from him than walks and HBP. Howard? Isn't this when he is supposed to be hot? This will be four straight years of diminishing homer numbers. Anyone wonder if steroid talk might kick in if he only hits 33 or so this year? And if he does, do we try to trade him?— phillies1001
- Keep him ready. We still don't know what Pedro will do. I'd flip flop him with Martinez especially on the road. Now even the Marlins have figured out how to slow down their bats when facing Jamie. Thanks for the contribution Mr Moyer.
- you got a ring, now shut up— fman727
- I'm disappointed that Moyer took his complaints public. He says it's about the 25 players on the team. If that's truly the case then he wouldn't have revealed his unhappiness. Here he is with a chance to win another World Series but yet he's upset that he's the odd man out. How many other 46 year old players are there? How many 46 year old men have had a chance to win a championship? My question to Moyer is this: would you rather win another World Series or would you rather be a starter somewhere else? If you really want to start, then the Phillies can place you on waivers and see if someone is really interested in trading for you. And if no one claims you then you can pack your bags, go home and be like the rest of the 46 year old men in the country. Last year, Brett Myers accepted his minor league assignment without complaining. Who would have thought that in this instance Myers would set the better example of being a team player.— HighPlainsDrifter
- Jamie you gave them ten wins on the standings, and you just let them know your feeling on being sat down. Now its time to show us all the Character we all know you have and accept the decision that Charlie has made. It was one of the toughest of his career. Relax, rest that arm during the dog days of August and be ready for the playoffs.— xmar
This is really a non-issue. He said some stuff, but so what? The real issue is Pedro. He's a total long-shot. No way to know what he might do. If, by some miracle, he pitches well, everybody's happy ('cept Jamie, of course). If he implodes, we'll see Jamie back on the mound sooner than later. Of more concern to me: Where have all the quality posters gone??? More bozos on here than at the circus. Used to be a decent board.— bobby- Yo! Wait til Pedro has 10 wins to dis Moyer this way. There is no reason to believe that he will perform any better than Jamie did. Look at his performance last year and scratch your head about why he got the contract he did from the Phillies.— 50yearfan
- All you need to know is 10-9, with a 5.47 ERA... them's aint starter-stats for a WS contender. Sorry Jamie, but you should realize that before anyone.— HitsLikeAGurlBurrel
- Getting bumped for someone who hasn't proven himself, has a point. At the same time, he's lucky he's not getting sent to the minors.— Philly Fan in Kuwait
- This guy got gifted an extra 7mil and has the gall to complain the team misled him? I'm sure the team would be happy to grant him his free agency if he gave up next years money. He already stole about 5mil this year.— Rod72
- I feel like I've been mis-led by this team too.....into the 6th against the Cubbies and not even one single baserunner, let alone a hit.....are we sure these guys are paying attention? This may go down as one of their biggest choke jobs of all time.— Mark1npt
- I feel like I've been mis-led by this team too.....into the 6th against the Cubbies and not even one single baserunner, let alone a hit.....are we sure these guys are paying attention? This may go down as one of their biggest choke jobs of all time.— Mark1npt
- This team has been getting knocked around in the middle innings when the starter goes out. If Moyer can come out of the bullpen and shut down the scoring, we could get back to winning and he'd be a hero. Besides does anyone really think Pedro will last long?— atp2007
- Wrong to do it that way...— tdubburns3
- Jamie's human and selfish like the rest of us.— sportsdead
- Someone please tell Gary Matthews to join the Cubs broadcast team. We don't want him. Replace him with Larry Anderson in the Phillies' booth.
Jamie has no room to talk, he stats speak for themselves, he's the 2nd worst starter in the NL right now and the Champs are trying to repeat, this is a no brainer move and i'm shocked that gramps is acting like an immaute highschooler— jamarder- No, he is not being professional. Jamie Moyer made a mistake today, speaking while dealing with the decline of his abilities. I hope someday he sees that he was wrong to say what he did today. Sports, and all jobs, come down to performance, and his performance this year was not good enough. His work in the past got him a 2 year extension when most athletes are retired and done. His performance this year put him in the bullpen. Stop whining and complaining...you are better than this.— rjmac
- No, he is not being professional. Jamie Moyer made a mistake today, speaking while dealing with the decline of his abilities. I hope someday he sees that he was wrong to say what he did today. Sports, and all jobs, come down to performance, and his performance this year was not good enough. His work in the past got him a 2 year extension when most athletes are retired and done. His performance this year put him in the bullpen. Stop whining and complaining...you are better than this.— rjmac
- uh oh somebody call the Wambulance. Whaaaahhhh. gimme a break. your feel-good story ended last year, buddy. and how exactly did that contract negotiation go? "I know you guys are the only team willing to sign a 46-year-old man, but if I have the worst ERA in the majors, you're not going to demote me, are you?" it's called performance, Jamie, just like any other profession— stigs
- Does Jamie Moyer think the Phils should compromise their chances of winning and continue starting him? You either do the job or you don't Jamie.— JimSeitz
- I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Pedro. The man is 9 years younger, throws 10 mph harder and has a lifetime 2.91 ERA, not to mention an 8-time All-Star, 3-time Cy Young winner and future Hall of Famer. Moyer made 1 All-Star team in 22 seasons, has a lifetime 4.23 ERA and will never get into the Hall of Fame without a ticket. It was a nice story for one year, but the TEAM comes first— stigs
- Does Moyer not understand he was terrible in the playoffs last year and has one of the worst ERAs in the league this year? Someone please explain it to him.— AlonzoMoselyFBI
- I don't remember Myers saying he was 'disheartened' last year when they sent him to the minors. Moyer should just nut up and try to help the team wherever he is needed.— phillyinthailand
- I feel bad for Jamie, but he should not have commented the way he did. His performance lately has not been good, so it was either give Martinez a look, or someone else. But I think he will get his job back. Martinez will not be any better, he's more suited for the bullpen.— highali
- If contracts promised starting spots, Adam Eaton would still be in the rotation. You can't have a 5+ ERA into August and expect the team to bend over backwards for you. You got the two year contract you wanted. What is his solution to the problem? Put Happ (second best starter right now) in the bull pen? I understand he might be peeved about bring Pedro in to cause the logjam, but you cannot just sit idly without trying to improve while you have a bloated ERA. What does he think they are going to do in the playoffs? Its Lee, Hamels, and Happ.— SeanMcD
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- He's let on 186 runners in about 125 innings. Opponents are hitting .300 against him. His average outing is 5 1/2 innings. And, the team gave him more than enough opportunities to work through his problems. The Phillies released Steve Carlton 20 years ago when his arm was shot- they can certainly send Jamie Moyer to the bullpen.— KMG
- This just proves you should never let sentiment play into negotiations. Sentiment is why the Phils signed him for 2 years instead of 1. Good luck finding anyone to pick up next year's bill, particularly if he stays in the pen. And that's where it really hurts. The Phils are shedding $20 million plus in pitcher salaries next year ($12MM for Myers, $8MM for Eaton). You add in Moyer's $6-7MM for next year that they should have NEVER agreed to (reminds me of the geriatric extensions we gave to Dykstra, Daulton and Kruk extensions after '93 series) and they could have made a bigger run at Derek Lowe in the off-season, or worse, could have made BOTH the Lee and Halladay deals, and signed one or both to extensions. How much would you give for a Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Blanton and Martinez/Moyer/Happ/Lopez, or Lee, Lowe, Hamels, Blanton and one of the others, with the room to pony up for long-term deals for Halladay/Lee/Lowe. Shoulda let him re-sign with Seattle. I love the guy, but please, I don't care if Ruben swore on the pope, JM has the third worst ERA of NL starters. He got the RESPECT he said he deserved by staying in the rotation as long as he did. This isn't death or taxes.— bm2626
- I wish some fans could attempt to understand the emotion this man felt the last two (2) days. Hasn't Moyer earned the benefit of the doubt with this situation and his being a so-called distraction? I don't believe we will hear anything more on the subject from him. But you have to understand this man has been doing this for his entire life and was just informed he wouldn't be doing it anymore. That's gotta be rough on the ego and his state of mind. I, for one, can try to understand and trust he will not become a distraction, ala Randall Cunningham when he was benched way back when. I feel he has earned it.— phillyjeffsr
- Way to take one for the team, Moyer. The feel good story of last year turns into this years nightmare. He's not worth the 2 yr. contract he got and now he can't even man up and realize he's not cutting it in the rotation and accept his diminished role. Should've retired after last season.— jonnyb0916
- Rich Dubee ruined Brad Lidge. he is the worst pitching coach in baseball. Another blown save tonight.— Dr. Michael
- Shut the F@*K up old man and play the F@%KING game! You know the team is just doing what they feels gives them the best chance to win and if u didn't have an ERA over 5 then u would be in the rotation. Take this time to get your game right so that if Martinez f@#ks up u can win the 5th spot back.— PhiNChi
- Why is baseball the only sport where someone who is continually ineffective for 2/3 of an entire season ( 100 + games) permitted to be ineffective until it is too late. If a FG kicker misses 5-6 game winning/game tying FG's/PAt's , you make a change. If you have a BB player miss free throws repeatedly in the last minute of games. you do not have him on the court in the deciding minutes. but in philadelphia baseball. you die with Mitch williams when it is obvious he has lost it, Jose Mesa who made every "save " a near death experience. It is obvious that Lidge CAN NOT GET 3 OUTS WITHOUT GIVING Up AT LEAST 1 RUN. How many times do you just say " he is working it out". The NL hitters get erections when Lidge enters the game because they know right now he is far more hittable than what they have seen prior to his arrival. But the Phillies will die with Lidge. iT does not make a difference if the starting rotation pitches 8 effective inninga every night as long as Lidge pitches the 9th. I hope I am wrong, but unless a change is made as far as 9th inning "closer' THEY WILL NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFFS.— carolina rasputin
- Moyer needs to realize he is past his prime. The game has passed him by and he is lucky the phillies won the world series last year, with little help from him in the postseason, or he would be sitting in his recliner watching their playoff push this year. I know he is a competitor but he should be thinking unselfishly now. His 5 innings a night on a regular basis down the stretch will kill the phillies bullpen. Pedro deserves a shot and if he can't perform, bring up Drabek and let us see what the hype is about.— college33
- I am very annoyed with Jaime's decision to go public with allegations that he was "misled". This is worse than just expressing disappointment with his demotion. Did he think he could just go out there every 5 days, be the worst starter in the National League, and collect his inflated paycheck for the next 2 seasons? Doesn't he realize that the Phillies have playoff aspirations and they need to do whatever it takes to ensure that they win? Hey Jaime, just be happy that you negotiated a second year so that you can keep stealing from the Phillies. I think Jaime misled the Phillies into thinking that he actually had other offers on the table that he would consider taking. Were there other playoff caliber teams that wanted a 46 year old pitcher, or was he willing to go to any team willing to meet his price? I'd have so much more respect for Jaime if he had just kept his mouth shut tonight.— Chainsaw
- Can Jamie close? I'll take a 6+ ERA over Lidge.— PhillyPhantastico
- Lidge is to 'closing" as Sarah Palin is to intelligence.— carolina rasputin
- I feel bad for Jamie...to a point. He has always carried himself very well and has been a positive influence on many in the Phillies organization. However, he has to understand the position he put the Phillies in to make this decision. He has mostly been awful this year and he should know that nothing should be given to you in life...you have to earn your keep. Yes, people should be given opportunities to earn their keep, and I think the Phillies have definitely done their part to let him work through his troubles. But now that the team is only 3.5 games up and with the offense stinking it up night after night, it is unlikely the team will be able to score enough runs required to give him an 11th or 12th win. Heck, The team has given up only three runs tonight but still that was not enough for this offense. What makes me wonder about Jamie today is that he said he does not want to be a distraction and refuses to be a distraction. But yet he went out of his way to call the media over and make all of these comments. It wan't like he made these comments in the heat of the moment....no, he had a day and was left alone but made it a point to get the media and vent. Too bad. I'm with most others here, while I admire Jamie for doing things with classon and off the field, today was not his best moment. He obviously knows he has performed poorly this year and to say you were misled is ridiculous. Perhaps Ruv=ben didn't envision you giving up almost 6 runs per game into August. I find it hard to imagine that any other team was offere=ing Jamie two guaranteed years over the winter. He should feel fortunate to have had the career he has had and now do what he can to help his team in any way he can...even if that means being the good soldier.— MrPhillie
- No he should have kept his yap shut. Shame on you Jamie. The Phillies kept you in the rotation even though you are 47 and have a 5+ ERA. Now if you were a run or 2 lower you would have a case.— Bubba
- If U want to start keep your ERA under 5. Enough said.— Reggie92
- What? Is he kiddin me, he's got the worst era in the league for starters. Team averages I believe 7+ runs in his starts, or he'd have 15 losses by now. What a joke, he should be rewarded for poor performance so thats his "misled" huh? He stinks!!— Living_Legend
- I'm a huge Moyer fan but we are 3 1/2 games up and he does not give us the best chance to win, period. That's the only concern. I expected more from Jamie, he doesn't have to be happy but to call out management and act like he still deserves to pitch when he's no longer one of the 5 best is below him. They show him talking to minor league pitchers each spring and he challenges them to take his job. Well, it happend.— wjg
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- There's a MR. Lidge that better get the message - no one has a guaranteed spot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1— aliveinscranton
- I'm a little surprised by Moyer's public comments. I totally expect him to feel like he does and be ticked off about going to the bullpen, but he's been around long enough and around Philly long enough to know that he just ignited a distraction by his public complaint to the local media. We'll be seeing stories about this for the next 2 weeks and everyone on the earth will be asked questions about how this makes them "feel". Nobody is guaranteed a spot in the rotation and when you have a 5 and a half run ERA two-thirds of the way through the season, you've got no beef. They gave him plenty of chances to solidify his spot in the rotation and they only intended to add 1 starter at the deadline to replace Myers...Pedro was insurance in case they couldn't trade for anyone else. When they were able to get Lee and didn't have to give up Happ, suddenly they had 6 starters. I think it's pretty weak to say that they "misled" him last Winter...a lot has happened since then.— JimG
- Pedro is way less a chance than Moyer. Moyer needs the planets to allign, a huge strikezone, and a free swinging team for him to make it past the 5th. If Pedro pitches decent he has major league pitches to get batters out, Moyer doesn't anymore.— Living_Legend
- 46 years old. Be patient. Lots of stuff can/will happen from now until when you're placed on the non-active post-season roster.— mjb
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- Jamie should be thanking his lucky stars that he is making 6.5 million this year.He should not only gracefully bow out of the starting rotation,he should retire.I don't know how he convinced the Phillies to give him that contract at 45 years old but he proved he isn't worth it,not even close.Not knocking Moyer just stating the facts,your time has come.Thanks for everything but all things come to an end.— FloridaPhillyFan
- Of course it hurts. He's a competitor. But, having the worst ERA of the starters makes it hard to justify any other outcome.
- OK...........Lets begin with I used to be an expos fan....remember them if so you know that being "misled" & "disapointed" were our birthrights. That being said this whole Moyer thing smells bad. A) My guess is that Montgomery and Amaro probably told him he would start period. (I doubt he lied about that) B) the economics are to convincing with all those incentives in his contract due to kick in shortly, what better way to get around them than demote him to the bullpen.....if so shame on you Ruben & David. C) despite his bloated ERA he does lead the club in wins, which after all is the most important satistic of them all. Just look at Jack Morris this guy rode a carrer 4.00 ERA to 3 20 win seasons 6 all star games and a pair of world series titles. Besides even if Pedro returns to the form he had no business losing that early in his career to begin with he will undoubtably get hurt. You may need Moyer before the campaigns over so perhaps you should tone down the negativity.— panzer
- I am not quite sure if Reuben Amaro's spokesperson knows what "pretense" means.— dwatt7
- Tough, tough time to take the high road. I wonder if he felt he was going to be part of a playoff rotation, which in no way shape or form was happening. I could easily be wrong, but I'm not surprised if Kyle Drabek gets more September starts than Moyer.— KBland
- jamie needed to get it out. Doesn't his time in the game and professionalism give him that right? I would have been disappointed had he not said something. Now he has to turn that disappointment into sharpening this role in the Pen. There is nothing to say he will not start another game in his career. Moyer is an inspiration to us all. But one more thing, weren't you all somewhat surprised he did not retire after the Parade last year and leaving on a high note?— PaulDeon
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- Well, Moyer has cajones. He wouldn't have received anything close to the contract he got anywhere else. He should be dancing around throwing money that he could earn that much playing at 46 and 47. Nobody gets to do that and he isn't even getting people out!— jtj06
- Every person has the right to speak his mind. That being said the Phils should have kept him in the rotation. So what if there if is 4 lefties starting. With a bullpen with the likes of MADSON, EYRE MARTINEZ,LIDGE AND THE POSSIBLE RETURN OF MYERS would give us 1 of the best if the best bullpens around. Come playoff time when you only need 4 starters that is when you use moyer out of the pen.........— Michaelper62
- give the man some credit for speaking his mind. Jamie Moyer rightly deserves that respect that he has RIGHTFULLY EARNED in 22+yrs of major league experience. I'm actually glad he spoke his mind and said what he needed to say and if it had to be public than so be it. But if he shuts it down after this release of his emotions than so be it. The man wears his heart on his sleeve and he's been an absolute blessing to this team, organization and city. So what if Moyer has a 10-9 record and a 5+ era this year this man brought credibility experience and knowledge to a pitching staff that at times prior to his arrival in Philly was downright terrible. People are so quick to forget that he won 16 games last year and helped anchor the pitching staff through the stretch run. I believe Jamie that when he says that he wont be a distraction to the team that he wont and that he will shut his yapper and do what is best for the team. That's what you have to admire about the man in a world where most would boohoo and cry taking a demotion (which most of us in this blog would do if his boss said he was going to be demoted in his job) he's an old school guy and I respect his fire and displeasure with this regardless of win loss record or era. Like previous comments stated would you expect him to come out and just say I'm fine with being demoted to the bullpen for a guy who hasn't pitched in the majors since last year. If he said that I'd be the first to tell him to retire because that would be showing your competitive fire is gone. Don't give up on Moyer he's a rare type of player and person in a messed up world. Thanks for being a team player Jamie...I wont give up on you or kick you to the curb like some of these clowns that have posted comments on this article. Jamie you're a true Phillie— marknoll15
- Like I said in the other forum: As these phony posters will be in a situation like JM and what would they say when they are let go..it's for the good of the corporation. And all of you would agree that you would say that. Yea Right! If Pedro was so good why did it take so long for him to get signed. Also he has the same era as JM and less wins over the last 4 years. Now compare yourself to a Pedro comparable co-worker that is going to replace you and I guess you would go home and say it's for the betterment of the corporation. That's why these post as so funny no reality just meaningless talk.— pepdsb
- As I said before with all these post. Let relieve you and give someone less capable your position then say it's for the betterment of your company. And I know all of you would keep quiet and move on. That's a joke. Get some reality in your lives.— pepdsb
- Let Moyer go on waivers and pick up an infielder who can hit .275. 260? Anybody? Okay, okay, --we'll settle for .250— Delaware Jim
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- I have no problem with Moyer venting and being upset about being taken out of the rotation. Of course he's gonna be upset. Why wouldn't he be?? He's 46, has been a starter for over 20yrs and now is being replaced so how could that possibly be easy for him to accept but at the same time he's as veteran as they come in sports and he should know how this works. He's not pitching well so they need to see what Pedro can do. He's been terrible this year with the exception of a few good games but even in the games he's pitched well he hasnt because he constantly has to fight to get out of jams, he gives up a ton of hits and baserunners. How could he think he's pitched well enough to keep starting every 5th day. I love Moyer but you have to think of the team first. I know he's been around forever and he helped us win a WS last year but im not doing any charity or giving him a free pass. I wanna win the WS again and if he has to come out of the rotation to do that then do it. The guys running this team have to play the players that give us the best chance to win and Moyer doesnt give you the best chance to win. He cant even make it through the 5th or 6th almost every game. Give Pedro a chance. If he sucks put Moyer back in but they have to field the best team possible.— philliekev04
- Hey Robert04174. You have no idea if Pedro is gonna be a cancer. He hasn't thrown a single pitch yet so why dont you wait and see. Your talking about giving Moyer a chance well why not give Pedro a chance. Worst that can happen is he stinks and then you put Moyer back in. And as far as Moyer having the chance to work through this HE HAS BEEN GIVEN THE CHANCE ALL SEASON. Its August now. How much longer do you plan on waiting. The playoffs arent the time to "figure things out" or " work through this". He's had all season. If he hasnt gotten it by now he's not gonna magically start pitching lights out. And i dont care how many wins he has. Dont people realize wins and losses mean nothing as a pitcher. How many wins he has shows nothing as far as how well a pitcher pitches. Look at Cliff Lee. He's pitched great this year but has more losses than wins...becaeuse he received no run support with the Indians. Moyer has benefitted from very good run support and the benefit of playing for a team that is one of the tops MLB in come-from-behind wins. He cant make it through 5-6 innings. The offense gets added pressure to score more runs since he gives up so many and the bullpen constantly gets drained when he pitches. The fact that he has 10 wins means absolutely nothing. If you wanna determine how well a pitcher performs you look at ERA, innings pitched, walks/strikeouts per 9innings, homers given up, etc.— philliekev04
- Keep your mouth closed T.O. Worst starter ERA in the NL and you think you should keep getting run out there. Would you have preferred to be released or Adam Eatoned? And as far as Pedro being a cancer, his teammates have loved him everywhere he has played. Why is he going to be a cancer exactly?— Captain
- BTW, all the dopes that assume Pedro will struggle b/c he gave up runs in the minors. JA Happ was 28-28 as a minor league pitcher. Now you all bow at the altar. Relax and we'll see what happens. And if he struggles I'd rather see anyone else rather than Adam Eaton....I mean Moyer...... get put back in the rotation— Captain
- Pathetic Moyer. The Phillies did not have to give you a 2-year deal. You have had a long career. It is a shame to see it end like this.— CSFurious
Let's see how Pedro does tonight before throwing him under the bus. I think that Ruben and Charlie have acted totally professionally, and that Jamie is reacting as anyone would who is a fiery competitor. Jamie will be back in the rotation in a few weeks, maybe sooner and we head into September crunch time. Great win last night; I don't see how anyone could say how it was "improbable".— DaveCicc- We love Moyer and get a kick out of the way he handles a game. He's a smart pitcher, but the bottom line is, he doesn't have a fast ball. Case in point, the 11 or 12 singles he gaved up the other night. Middle relief, you also need a fast ball. He could help the pitchers in the pen.— vzev8aru
Moyer had a great year LAST year. He has been marginal this year. Signed a fat contract. If he had been pitching well he would not be in the bullpen. His moaning and complaining are unprofessional and misdirected. He should spend his time trying to figure out if he should still be wearing a phillies uniform, rather than 'complaining'- Moyer should not have been signed to a two year contract. I moaned about it immediately. It shut the door for developing other potential starters this year. The obvious change would have had Happ in the rotation from the beginning. The management made a mistake with that signing. Lowe would have helped. (He may not have been available.) I lost some respect for Moyer. His numbers speak for themselves. The wins are high because of his run support during the season. Jamie, please take the current situation with the class and dignity you have shown your entire career. This team is in in trouble. The Braves and Marlins are coming fast. You will get another chance because Pedro is not the answer either. It is amazing to me how Happ, besides Lee, may be the best starter on the field via his performance and off the field for the way he was treated early in the season. Moyer never should have been a starter for this team. It is sad that Jamie or the Phillies didn't realize it in the offseason.— wmontanez27
- Man! It's good thing you people live in America, First Amendment and all, because if you were judged by your ridiculous posts, most of you would be scheduled for early afternoon beheadings. While you spew your very soft poop, you seem to forget that Jamie has the same right to express himself, right or wrong. Aside from that, those of you who continue to bash Moyer as a pitcher (um, 256 wins is nothing to sneeze at, MORONS) NEVER understood this game OR just how amazing a pitcher and competitor Jamie Moyer has been all these years. And to blame Charlie for any of it is funny. He has little to no say here, but even YOU guys were able to predict this move. Moyer is the obvious choice to be removed from the rotation; HOWEVER, re: his bullpen duties, THEY are lying through their teeth. Moyer cannot help us out of the 'pen EXCEPT as a long reliever in a one-sided loss. PK— PhillyTheKid
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- Jamie is a class act and being dissatisfied with the bullpen assignment is further evidence of his competitiveness. But he hasn't been very good this year. He should be glad he didn't get the same treatment Smoltz did from the Redsox. He's had a great career, and probably knows more about pitching than Dubee ever will. If he wants to stay in baseball, why doesn't he use his experience to transition to a pitching coach. He would be terrific -- watching how Happ interacts with him in the dugout suggests that much of Happ's success is because of his mentoring. I'll be he could help the rest of that staff!— brinkmang
- Everyone talks about Pedro like he is a sure thing. 11 strike outs in AA, yea thats decent. But ultimately Pedro was not that impressive in his rehab starts and he was less impressive with the mets. Honestly, and i hate to say it because the Phils can't be taking losses right now, but i bet that Pedro gets shalacked in this start tonight. And again, and once more. And after three mediocre or worse starts, what does Ruben do? Bring Jamie back feeling all slighted? They should have atleast gone through the six man rotation once and seen what happened. Atleast until Pedro demonstrates that he is worth religating a guy like Moyer to the pen. Mind you, Jamie's ERA is less then 1 point higher then Hamels, and Jamie has won more games.— SethGordon
- Moyer had no other good offers last off-season. He shouldn't act like every team was beating down his door to sign him. He actually should thank the Phillies for giving the opportunity to wear a WS championship ring so he can eventually retire from baseball as a winner instead of a loser.
- By the way, if Moyer is disheartened now, wait until he sees he's not going to be on the playoff rosters in October.
- One of the pleasures of being a fan is second-guessing management. But I think they did the right thing here. Don't know why Jamie chose to spout off, but that's his business. I'm more concerned with Lidge. Is he OK?— spinmeister
- As I'm sure the Phils front office is as well, I'm grateful for what Moyer has done for the Phillies both on and off the field the past few years. He's like having a 2nd pitching coach, and the young lefties all benefit from his presence. But his performance this year does not warrant a spot in the rotation - on any other team he would not have 10 wins. The Phils bats have averaged 7.5 runs/game in each of his wins.— Crash Davis
- This is the hardest decision Manuel's ever had to make? He's led a charmed life.— benjyedwards
Moyer should lay low. Pedro's not going to last more than a couple of starts before they have Jamie back in the rotation.- Hope55 has the best comments on the subject so far. MLB contracts only guarantee term and money. They do not guarantee what role you will play on the team. Jamie should know that better than anyone else. And if he really did not want to be a distraction he would not have made those comments to the press. The proper response would have been ... yes I am disappointed but all of us have to play with the cards that are dealt to us.— cleansports
In all but a few starts this year, Jamie has been a punching bag. I think his professional pride and competitiveness are preventing him from seeing that. I see him being released and Drabeck brought up later on in the season, especially if Pedro fails. Why keep rolling either one of them out there if they are only going to pitch batting practice?— tpizza- They had to do what was best for the team...— TerryW
- “When we signed Jamie Moyer it was under the pretense of him being a starter. But right now circumstances have changed....we’re not going to get into any contract negotiations. That’s between players and club.” IN THIS QUOTE THE DOT,DOT,DOT,DOTs MEANS WORDS HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT. THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING THE FULL IMPACT OF THE STATEMENT WITHOUT ALL THE WORDS. Possibly the reporter didn’t feel that you needed to see those words. Contract employees AND their employers are bound by contracts unless one defaults in some way(see Plexico Burress). Unless Moyer's 10-9 season w/ 5.47 ERA is shown to be a default of some kind he deserves to be a starter. Further more Moyer states how he FEELS: "I feel like I've been misled," Moyer said. "I'm a little disheartened a little bit because I know this past winter when I was negotiating with the Phillies, etc" -- NO ONE ON THIS PLANET CAN TELL ANOTHER PERSON HOW HE CAN FEEL. RIDICULOUS! -- There is no issue here except what is created for you in the press. For the Phils this is a means to an end. Jamie Moyer will hit the waiver wire before the 31st and you will be made to believe they did all they could. While Jamie is responsible for his own dilemma, like so many others who have failed in Philly he will go else where and be ok. For those who pay attention one name remains behind the scene,s seldom quoted, but always in the mix when it comes to decisions about pitchers and catchers. FIRE DUBEE NOW!— Wally 24
- I try to teach my kids that we can't control what happens TO US in life; we can only control HOW WE REACT to what happens. Jamie Moyer is known as a level-headed guy and here he just let his emotions get the best of him for a moment. He knows better, but he's human. So now we move on and see what happens from here. But all the posts attacking the guy (some viciously) are just out of line.— bobby
- Jamie, Jamie, Jamie...look at your stats, please!— ginzo
- If he doesn't like the bullpen, then release him. If he doesn't think he should have gone to the bullpen then ask him who should go in his place?— PhilzPhan
Those of us without sin or fault can cast the first stone at Moyer. The team is paramount however. Jamie and all the rest of the individuals come second.— RAS
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