Inquirer Photo
Nutter recently signed five local gun bills into law, including one that would outlaw the possession and sale of certain assault weapons. The NRA immediately sued the city on the grounds that the city does not have the authority to enact local gun control. They obtained a temporary restraining order to keep the city from enforcing the new laws.
Liczbinski was killed with a Chinese-made assault weapon.
"I think it's insane," Nutter said. "The fact that we put forward a piece of legislation to prevent the sale and use and transfer of assault weapons and have a Philadelphia police officer assaulted on the streets with one, I think makes it pretty clear to anyone who is confused about this issue that there's no reason for any citizen, any person other than in law enforcement or in the military to have such a weapon."
He added: "There's no legitimate argument by the NRA, they need to get in the real world where the rest of us live and come to grips with these kinds of issues. They owe an apology to the family for their staunch opposition over many, many years blocking legislative support for these kinds of matters."
We called the NRA for response and will update when we hear back.
Nutter also said that Eric Floyd -- one of three suspects in the case who remained at large last night -- should turn himself in.
"He needs to turn himself in as quickly as he can. He knows that we're looking for him.He knows that we know who he is, what he looks like," Nutter said.
Posted by Catherine Lucey @ 12:59 PM
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111 comments
Good Luck Nutter. You can not use reason when you try to reason with those inbred NRA morons.
What he should do is arrange for a bus to go to the cow pastures of Central PA and pick up all those NRA nuts and bring them to Philly. Let them try to survive one night on the streets here and see if they still want to block the assault weapon ban.
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Love or hate the NRA there still is that little ol' state constitution to deal with. Nutter needs to be focusing more on preventing innocent people from being slain in the middle of the afternoon on SEPTA platforms, ridding the streets of trash both paper and human and not trying for the cheap sound byte of the day over another dead PPD officer.
Please don't tell me you think if this "ban" went into effect that it would have prevented this tragedy. The problem with gun 'control' laws is that criminals have no regard for them - you can make all the laws you want, but its not going to make these scumbags think twice before taking a legal or illegal gun and firing at another one of our brave men and women of the PPD. These people were robbing a bank - they obviously have no regard for laws or society - I hope the other 2 involved fry - unfortunatly only 1 of these scumbags actually paid a just price for their cowardice.
Keep blaming the gun. It's never the person who pulled the trigger. Was it a legally owned gun? I'm thinking not. Remember, When you outlaw guns, only outlaws WILL have them. Let's solve the crime problem. Maybe Mayor Nutter should give an apolgy for not having safe streets.
the NRA is nothing but a money hungry lobby - many many former members are disenchanted with the NRA and have since left... they care about nothing but money!
This is a joke right? The NRA Apoligize? How about the criminals themselves apoligize to the family, or the sorry parents who didn't raise their children to be law abiding citizens, or the school system that probably failed them. Pass all of the gun laws you want, it doesn't take away from the fact that criminals will get a hold of firearms. I bet you anything that the guns used were obtained illegally by these animals.
Thank goodness for organizations like the NRA which uphold my 2nd amendment right to protect myself from criminals like this if need be.
The mayor has it all wrong. The NRA owes no one an apology. Every liberal in America should be the ones to apologize to this officer's family. The three animals that killed this officer were career criminals with arrests for armed robbery. They should have been executed after the first time they committed a violent crime. Instead they were sent away on a free vacation for a few years, with free housing, free food, free medical care, free job training, and free education. Oh, and of course, they also had plenty of free time to mastermind their next vionet crime. America needs to have zero tolerance for violent crime - one strike and your out. Instead, we have liberal America consistently blaming criminal behavior on everyone except the criminal. As liberal America continues to find new and better ways to blame everyone else, animals like this will continue to terrorize our society. There is no hope for a society that tries to provide more help to criminals, then is provided to children and the elderly.
Sure Nutter....I"m sure the weapon was purchased legally, and that legislation would have prevented this whole tragedy. Maybe the legal system should apologize for allowing this scum to walk around with thr rest of us...or maybe Street should apologize for not cleaning up the trash in this city during his terms in office. Nah, it's the NRA's fault that criminals are killing cops.
Well said Two5ten. Nutter, where is your responsibility for the safe city? Increase funding to our police department - and provide them with the resources they need to take this city back for law abiding citizens
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The mayor(s) should be apologizing to the citizens for leaving all of these violent offenders on the street unsupervised. Do you think someone who would rob a bank after serving 9years for robbery is concerned about the citys *unenforcable* made-up gun laws? Were these guys NRA members? There is a reason why the 1994 assault weapons ban was lifted, it was too vague and made no impact on violent crime.
Search for yourself, type in the names of the three criminals:
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/WebDocketSheets/OtherCriteria.aspx?mode=mc
View their records for firearms offenses and then wonder why they were out on the street with your kids.
This is silly! Passing gun laws have little to no effect on criminals who can't legally own guns anyway. How many people go out and legally buy guns to murder and rob with???
The real failure here is the lax legal system and the bleeding heart liberals who give these criminals light sentences and free reign in a halfway house.
Criminals are in the wrong not law abiding citizens who want guns.
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Why should the NRA apologize for some bandit who bought a gun illegally and used it to commit a capital crime? When are we going to start blaming criminals for their acts? How about tracing the gun to see how it got here? How it got to the murderer's hands? The NRA does not defend criminals. It shouls not need to apologize for any.
Hey Nutter, how about asking the Judge who gave these scumbags parole to apologize the the policeman's family? Why don't you ask the people that raised these animals to apologize to the family? While you are at it, stop blaming the NRA for everything to deflect blame from you and the chief of police. Rounds these animals up and put them in jail for the rest of their lives.
"inbred NRA morons" Yep there's the voice of progressive gun control supporters! Interesting logic that admits that crime is out of control in "North Philly" (a nice catchall for poor black neighborhood) and that somehow the "inbred NRA morons" would not survive. Well, would the inbred morons be allowed to bring their guns that they know how to handle properly? I have a feeling that they probably would survive if all those North Philly criminals knew they were packing NRA members. Now if the sophisticated, progressive urbanites have their way and disarm legally armed citizens then no I can't imagine them having much of a chance.
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I have no affection for guns or the NRA, but it's true that no gun law would have stopped these thugs. They each had a history of not caring anything about laws or society in general.
Clearly this guy wasn't a legal gun owner. Why do the words "straw purchase" come to mind?
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Typical DemocRat response... I thought Nutter was going to be a different type of mayor other than a Democrat party hack first and mayor as a side job like the last guy. I guess I was wrong. Let us know if the guys who did the shooting were NRA members. I bet not. Let us know if the existing laws were enforced so that the killers could not get that gun. I bet not.
There is overwhelming evidence that gun control laws do nothing to reduce crime. In fact, in places where guns are outlawed, violent crime has increased since the ban took effect. Criminals will not suddenly become respectful of the law once more strict laws are put in place. They will still have illegal guns just like they had before the ban. The only difference will be that they can then committ their crimes with greater confidence because they know their victims are unarmed.
Chicago has had a ban on and guns for years. But Chicago has seen far more gun violence than Philadelphia in the last two months. Chicago also has a much larger police force per capita than Philadelphia. This is the most clear example that gun laws do not work. The only think that will work, is criminal control - incarceration and execution.
By the way, I am one of those "NRA nuts" and I also happen to live in North Philly. And I have survived far longer than just one night. So, your assumption about the cowardice of people who legally own guns is way, way off base. I don't use my guns to settle scores on the street or enforce drug deals, or take revenge because someone else got the girl I like. I use my gun to protect my family in the event of a home invasion. I also use my gun to protect my business in the event of a robbery. If that's cowardice, than I'm living in the wrong country.
Get off Nutter's back, you dopes. At lease there is some hint of leadership coming out of the Mayor's office. Such small minded people.
Way to go Nutter. As voiced earlier, just grandstanding on a corpse. Providing sound bites that this "news" paper and other liberal modes of media will grab to because they are bitter just like Obama said. If we had an efficient DA's office, more focused policing and sentencing laws that punished people for repeated violent offenses the slain cop would have had a chance. Instead the beurocracy would rather blame an inanimate object. Emotional grandstanding by small minded politicos always makes me smile, and worry about this city's future.
Less guns, means safer streets. Fewer gun crimes, free up police to patrol other areas like subways during peak hours. Not a difficult concept, doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure it out. The Mayor is not to blame until every parent in this city takes responsibility and control of their child much of this crime commited by the young will occur. When we punish these childrenon their first offense to show we mean business and hold their parents accountable publicly, and financially along with monitoing both parent and child electronically so that they remain in the home as does the parent outside of work and school, then we'll get somewhere. It's time for a direct approach, because subtlety doesnt work on the stupid.
NRA. Money hungry? You mean like Planned Parenthood and their $1 billion kiddie? The NRA at least is not aborting babies. Nutter should realize that the automatic weapon that killed this officer was not bought legally so NO law would prevent its sale.
AD - good for you exercising your rights! It must kill commenters like s1360m to read about a North Philly resident that doesn't fit his stereotype of the illegal gun toting criminal or the NRA "nut" who isn't a raving good ol' boy hick. Progressives hate it when their enlightened versions of prejudice conjured in an allegedly superior mind are shattered as badly as any gutter level racism or sexism. I used to shoot at a range in South Philly and more often than not the other shooters practicing their aim were black women.
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Hey, I've got a radical concept: How about we blame BOTH the criminals and the organization that defends their right to have guns?
The either/or debate lets both sides off the hook -- the NRA which doesn't actually care who has a gun or how many are out there (remember, the NRA represents primarily the MANUFACTURERS), and the criminals who are indeed bad people who should be locked up for more than nine years.
When somebody commits a crime using a gun, there are two reasons: guns are too readily available in our society, thanks in large part to the NRA, and the criminal doesn't care about his fellow human beings. Any reason we can't attack both problems?
Homeland security my...
Exactly what purpose does a military grade, Chinese automatic assault rifle serve to the general, civilian public? You can try to blame Liberals all you want, but Republicans happily allowed the assault weapons ban to lapse, making it easier for criminals to buy guns that have no real purpose or intention other than to take human lives. You don't need an AK-47 to hunt deer, so what confuses me is why we all talk so much about protecting our "homeland security", when we're voluntarily allowing these dangerous, unnecessarily powerful firearms into the hands of people who won't use them for military or law enforcement purposes.
I think the State Legislature of Pennsylvania owes this family an apology. Central Pennsylvanian rednecks care more about their rights to shoot cans with RPG Launcher than to help fellow citizens by allowing them to pass localized, sensible gun laws to help police officers and innocent citizens stay safe.
I love it how the right-wing nutjobs come out of the woodwork whenever someone challenges the "almighty 2nd Amendment". First of all, my dad was a 4th District cop for over 20 years, and NEVER brought his service weapon home. His view was there was no need for guns in the home....and he was right. Second, the Mayor's point is to ban assault-style weapons. Eliminating the flow of AK-47s, UZIs, TEC-9s would undoubtedly make our streets safer. Most guns used in the city of Philadelphia can be traced back to PA gun dealers. That is an undeniable fact. Nutter is right. All you gun-toting nutjobs out there, get a clue.
Actually, when you outlaw guns only the police have them.
how about we have the sub-humans that are perpetrating these crimes apoligize. then maybe a perform a late term (84th trimester) abortion on them
NRA has no blame in this incident. The was a crime committed by a serial criminal who should not have even been on the streets in the first place. My heart goes out the officers family.
If a criminal is willing to kill someone than he or she is certainly willing to possess an illegal gun. Outlawing guns will just mean more illegal guns will exist. Maybe we need better sentecing guideline to keep people like this is prison longer. Most crimes are committed with illegellay possessed guns, so what is outlawing going to do? Make super illegal?
I'm on the NRA's mailing list. I get TONS of junk mail from them. Seems like I'm on a lot of pro-gun politician's mailing lists, too. I can't see how I should continue being a member if they won't even concede to requiring gun safety courses that must be taken before being able to purchase. So many clueless law abiding and law breaking people don't know how to operate or maintain their piece.
But hey... what the hell. This is Pennsylvania, where you need to go through approvals to get Plan-B contraception but you can buy guns like candy.
I'd rather encourage more people, especially in the hood, to use more contraception--so that way there will be fewer progenitors of animals running around.
Its a shame that the officers death is being used as a tool of this adminstration to push their own agenda. They should be concentrating on enforcing the laws that are already on the books.
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The gun legislation Nutter was fighting for is to stop the straw purchasing of assult weapons, if we can get one assult rifle of the street you may have saved a life. Why does someone need a gun that can shoot thru a bullet proof vest? I tell you why, to kill cops. They should be banned from this country. The NRA should not turn a deaf ear to what has just happened.
The gun legislation Nutter was fighting for is to stop the straw purchasing of assult weapons, if we can get one assult rifle of the street you may have saved a life. Why does someone need a gun that can shoot thru a bullet proof vest? I tell you why, to kill cops. They should be banned from this country. The NRA should not turn a deaf ear to what has just happened.
its not blaming the gun genius, its a simple fact of trying to decrease the numbers of these assault weapons getting into the wrong hands, and yea , obviously, the NRA are a bunch of money hungry hicks, And I do believe, that the enforcement banning the selling of certain weapons would help, even if only a little, decrease the #'s of gunshot wounds n deaths to innocent people & officers
Gee, We are one of the most violent civilized countries in the world. Do you think we need to look at gun control. I don't hear or read about people being killed by gunfire in other civilized countries not to the extent here. We need to look at legalizing drugs to take that source of income from criminals. That could fund schools, health care etc... Of course we would have to find jobs for all the people who will not end up in jail, another area the US excels in.
Hey flemingkj - exactly what planet do you live on??? So what you're saying is if we also outlaw most drugs, the only people that will have them will be the doctors? Oh yeah, we already did outlaw most drugs, but somehow people still have them.
Guns are outlawed in Chicago. But somehow there have been over 50 shootings there in the last two weeks? And I guarantee it wasn't the police that were doing the shooting. So flemingkj, how do you explain that?
"the right-wing nutjobs come out of the woodwork" There's the superior, progressive mentality! Of course anyone who is skeptical about the effectiveness of piling on gun control laws is a "right wing nutjob"! Well crafted, open-minded, persuasive rhetoric from your superiors on the left side of the spectrum.
Wow liberals amaze me. Gun nuts and inbred morons thats the best arguement you can make. Or is it that you realize that those thugs dont care about the law. I am sure that they would have thought "hmmm there is a ban on assualt weapons, lets not use it to rob a bank." Nutter is just like Street and the rest of them, blame the other guy is all they can do. He has no clue how to fix any issues that cant be explained by a sound byte or a photo op at a civic center
I'm a gun owner and refuse to be a member of the NRA because they do not stand for what I believe in. Assault weapons are not sporting weapons. There is no justification for allowing these on the streets. There is no reason for anyone to buy dozens of guns every month, let alone one a month - it is sign they are stockpiling or selling them illegally. It's time the NRA got a grip on what is going on in America.
Nationally, 5 of the top 120 gun stores whose guns are traced to crime come right here from the Philadelphia area. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/research/AGS-delears.pdf
Maybe we should stop calling them assault weapons and call them what they really are...Weapons of Mass Destruction...then maybe the conservatives and the NRA will go to war against them...like they did in Iraq. God bless Officer Liczbinski's family.
For the people who argue we need guns to be safe, riddle me this "How is it that other countries without all these guns are safe and much less crime ridden than the US".
Weapons that can go fully auto have been illegal by Federal law since about 1936. For a weapon to be an assault weapon is must be able to be switched from single shot to multiple shots by the flip of a switch. If the bad guys really had fully auto weapons as some of you suggest, they have been illegal for decades. If the weapons used were not fully auto they are not assault weapons. Further, the Mayor has no business passing an assault weapons ban as the Federal law trumps regardless of the State constitution. He's either trying to make points politically, or he's just plane ignorant. I vote for ignorant.
The NRA owes an apology?? What an asinine comment....Nutter is clueless. The respect I had for the man is gone. I'm sorry, Mike, who killed the officer? Oh, I forgot...democrats always blame someone other than the person who should be held accountable. (and I don't even own a gun)
Plenty of good citizens use guns for protection and recreation. Don't make the NRA a scapegoat. This is all about a lack of fatherhood and morals in the home. There's a bunch of people out there with no conscience. They're just animals. Just look to the family and you'll see what's going on. Even if you passed 1000 gun laws criminals would still get their hands on guns. Wake up people.
To Philly Monkey, is the man who killed the amish girls representative of a whole race of "animals"? If I'm correct, neither Al Sharpton nor Mayor Nutter killed anyone, so how are they responsible for the actions of others. If we are to do a comparison of animalistic actions between black men and white men, I don't think you'll like to conclusion.
Mayor Nutter is WRONG --- It is NOT an assault weapon!! It is a WWII weaon!!!
The original SKS has a conventional carbine layout, with a wooden stock and no pistol grip. Most versions are fitted with an integral folding bayonet which hinges down from the end of the barrel. As with the American M1 Carbine, the SKS is shorter and less powerful than the semi-automatic rifles which preceded it — most notably, the Soviet SVT series and the American M1 Garand. Contrary to popular belief it is not a modern assault rifle. This is because it does not meet all of the criteria of a true assault rifle, though there are some variants that fall closer to the definition. It does not possess the capability for selective fire."
"The SKS is a Russian 7.62x39mm caliber semi-automatic carbine, designed in 1945 by Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov. SKS is an acronym for Samozaryadniy Karabin sistemi Simonova (Russian: Самозарядный карабин системы Симонова), 1945 (Self-loading Carbine, Simonov's system, 1945), or SKS-45. The SKS carbine was rather quickly phased out of first-line service, replaced by the AK-47 in 1947."
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Sure Jim! I'll make sure the next time a cop is murdered to make some completely irrelevant, asinine anti-war statement just like YOU, you brilliant man! And speaking of irrelevant, thanks for the stat, Rob!
THERE WAS NO COMMENT ABOUT BEING UNARMED, ITS ABOUT CERTAIN, CERTAIN,CERTAIN, HOW MANY TIMES...HMM ONE MORE, CERTAIN TYPES OF ASSAULT WEAPONS. NOT BANNING ALL, ALL THOUGH, A GUN IS A GUN, THE NRA NOT NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO THE SLAIN COPS FAMILY, BUT TO GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO KEEP IT LEGAL TO CONTINUE TO SELL THESE TYPES OF WEAPONS JUST SHOWS THEIR MONEY HUNGRY LOBBYISTS, WITH NO CARE OF PEOPLE DYING FOR NO REASON, NO GOOD REASON. AT LEAST NUTTER IS TRYING TO DO SOMETHING FOR THE BETTER OF OUR CITY, BUT I DO DISAGREE THAT NRA SHOULD APOLOGIZE- HICKS! LOL COULDNT RESIST
Then petition to amend the lil ol state constitution - until you successfully do that - sit down and be quiet.
I love how the left wing liberal big-daddy-government-save-me ACLU-type kooks like SouthPhillyRob defend every other amendment to protect criminals, but conveniently ignore the Second Amendment. Do you think all of those eastern European countries would have remained oppressed under Communist rule for so many years if the government hadn't taken away their ability to defend themselves? The government had nothing to fear and rolled in the tanks any time they got out of line. But I suppose SouthPhillyRob would have been one of the party apparatchiks so that would have been just dandy with him - after all, the commie government was taking care of him.
It's funny how inconsisent the liberals are on here...let's see here....with the issue of drug control, there are too many laws and the laws are too harsh. Besides, people are going to use drugs anyway. So let's accomodate the drug users.
But, with guns (LOL), the government needs to get more involved and pass more laws, because, of course, criminals will follow the laws. Then we'd all be safer! Idiots.
Hey jbrown71, you can always tell when a liberal is losing an argument - that's when they roll out the name calling, like "right wing", etc. I'm suprised we haven't seen "nazi" yet. I guess they save that one for when they are really, really losing the argument. Keeping the powder dry, so to speak. LOL.
Why aren't the liberal Democrats and the Democrat-Media Complex blaming the Chinese - after all, they made the gun. If they wouldn't have made it, this wouldn't have happened in liberal logic.
It's completely untrue that other nations with gun bans are less violent then the U.S. Some western nations that have recently banned most guns for private ownership have skyrocketing gun crimes. England, Australia, Canada etall. Also, in history, totalitarian regimes first take all the guns away so the population can be more easily controlled.
Think Stalin, Hitler, Musoleni, Pol Pot, and almost all the nations on the African Continent. Those places all beacame so peacfull after the guns were gone --- didn't they? Of course not, millions apon millions killed. But, they had very good gun control.
Typical urban political hack, blaming the NRA for the criminal acts of an ex-con who was paroled at the earliest opportunity by the Philly catch-and-release criminal justice system.
For the gun-ignorant, here's some facts to bear in mind. Not that it will help you see beyond your prejudices, but one can always hope.
Fact: the SKS is a SEMIAUTO, 7.62x39 caliber knockoff of a military rifle, the AK-47 - not an 'assault weapon', which is by definition a gun capable of fully automatic fire.
Fact: when Bill Clinton granted China MFN trading status in his first term, the civilian market and Clinton's BATF - not the NRA - allowed mass imports of dirt-cheap Chinese-made SKS rifles. Under the BATF rules at the time, these rifles were classified as curios & relics, meaning these could be sold without any paper trail.
Fact: Any rifle caliber will penetrate Class II or III body armor with ease. There is nothing that makes a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 any more or less deadly than any other rifle caliber. So, if you're advocating a ban on any projectile that can pierce body armor, you are supporting a ban on all rifles.
Fact: there was no mechanical feature of the gun used in this crime that made it more effective in committing a homicide than Granddad's deer rifle. If you disagree, please state said mechanical feature and will be more than happy to make you look like the reflexive, unthinking paranoic you are.
I've noticed that for some reason it's perfectly acceptable in self-proclaimed progressive circles to mock the 2nd Amendment and its adherents. All of the arm-chair amateur Constitutional scholars come out of the woodwork (like the "rightwing nutjobs") and are ready to unilaterally declare the 2nd Amendment null and void or claim that lesser folk (the one's who exercise the right) are "misinterpreting the intent', i.e. they become strict constructionists. The hypocrisy would be stunning if its practitioners were the least bit self-aware.
wait a minute, do people ACTUALLY think like this?? is nutter crazy? did the NRA kill the cop?? what the hell is this backwards world we live?? its like bizarro world.
I happen to own a Norimco M-90, essentially the same as the SKS. I can tell you from vast experience, (hundreds of rounds shot), that I had to pull the trigger every single time. It is not an assault rifle.
I love how 'fascist conservatives' are always hating on liberals for 'blaming everyone else for their problems.' And yet, those same conservatives seem to just blame liberals for their own problems. The whole notion of liberal vs. conservative is an artificial smokescreen. Decide for yourself what you belive in and support it, rather than falling in with the party line...that two-party sheep mentality is the real problem with this hijacked country.
NRA members are a bunch of morons to flap their lips when they live no where near here or in areas where the bullets are flyiing. Let's wait until one of their one gets murdered in a senseless way, maybe then they'll get the picture on the intent behind Nutter's actions, Which by the way was necessary & courageous and I support the Mayor 100% on thos actions. I know other Philadelphians share this sentiment as well. WE HAVE TO LIVE HERE!
HA! I love all this talk about the liberal hypocrisy. A Neo-Con's perspective:
1. Patriot Act is OK, because even though infringes upon someone else's rights to privacy and property, its used to protect the homeland. But gun control is NOT OK, because it infringes upon my right to own a big gun, so I don't care whether it protects the homeland or not.
2. Let's start a premptive war because we need to stop dangerous people from building dangerous weapons that could hurt innocent civilians. But, let's do absolutely nothing about the dangerous people buying dangerous weapons at home.
3. Protect our borders, but not our cities.
4. If every person had a gun, then we'd all be safer because they could use them for "self-defense". But if every country had a nuclear weapon, we wouldn't be safer, because every country would use them for "self-defense".
Ah yes, now I understand! It's those crazy tree-hugging liberals who are wrong!
I'll reiterate the fact that passing laws will do nothing to get guns off the streets. A criminal isn't going to say, "You know, I'd love to go knock off that liquor store...too bad guns are illegal now."
You can pass laws until you're blue in the face. The only thing you will do is take guns out of law abiding citizens hands.
Everyone drink, someone used "Neocon" as a putdown! And what does "premptive" mean? You've read the text of the Patriot Act of course, I'm so sure.
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"NRA members are a bunch of morons to flap their lips when they live no where near here or in areas where the bullets are flyiing."
So there's not a single member of the NRA who lives in the city Philadelphia? Wow, interesting statistic.
Fact: The NRA is made up of dues-paying individual members, not "companies."
Fact: The shooter here only fired five rounds. A regular SKS that doesn't use a detachable magazine holds 10 rounds of ammo and would have been 100% legal under the Nutter ban on so-called "assault weapons."
Fact: The SKS uses ammo that is less powerful than the most common deer rifle ammo.
Fact: Even with Nutter's "ban," you can go out and buy a semi-auto rifle that uses detachable magazines. The "ban" only banned pistol grips and bayonet lugs.
Fact: It is a SHAME that grief over this officer's death is being hijacked for political purposes.
Fact: If Cain (good name, there) had served the full sentence instead of getting out early on parole, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
It turns out Nutter may be as big a clown as Street... I thought he had some promise when he took office a couple of months ago... How politically correct of him to blame the NRA for this tragedy... Of course, if ALL guns were banned---we would NEVER have another shooting in this city... He makes me want to throw-up in my mouth... Philadelphia is a Banana Republic---you go into that cesspool and you take your life into your hands... If I worked in the city I would NEVER leave home without a concealed weapon of some kind... Amazingly, the criminals MAY NOT adhere to gun bans if they are implemented---as CRAZY as that may sound...!!! Nutter's a sorry sack just like that putz that preceded him...
"It's common sense, which nobody in the NRA has." The brilliant, educated, voice of Progressive reason speaks again! Called people "idiots" twice - nice touch.
"It's common sense, which nobody in the NRA has." The brilliant, educated, voice of Progressive reason speaks again! Called people "idiots" twice - nice touch.
1) Guns DO kill people. In 2004, 5 people in New Zealand, 37 people in Sweden, 73 people in England and Wales, 184 people in Canada, and 11,344 people in the US died from gun injury. If any other manufactured item caused 11,000 deaths in a year, it would be pulled off the shelves, immediately.
2) The knee jerk reaction to violence of "just throw the animals in jail" is costing us a fortune. Spending on criminal justice has increased 60%, while education funding has been cut 5%. It costs 2-3 million dollars to house one chronic offender over a lifetime. Most offenders are in jail for non-violent offenses, typically drug abuse, which could be treated more effectively through community-based services.
3) More police is just going to make the problem worse. (I'm sorry for the family who has lost a loved one. But, it is time for Philly and suburban cops to look at themselves the way the rest of us see them.) The cops have gotten away with harassing young people for decades. A young black man cannot walk down the street without getting picked up and accused of some fabricated misdemeanor. Young women are whistled at, gawked, and propositioned by police officers. When we need officers, they are "too busy". Before we hire more police officers, we need to train the ones we have to speak to ALL people with respect, to safeguard civil liberties, and to "protect and serve."
Unfortunately for the citizens of Philadelphia, Nutter does not live in the real world. In the real world, we have a culture problem- NOT a gun problem. The gun was already illegal for the guy to own, yet somehow he did get ahold of it. How? HE'S A CRIMINAL. Banning guns will not stop people like him from getting it. The problem is the lack of respect for life. The problem is that blacks kill people out of proportion from their population numbers. And the people they kill the most are other blacks. Its not because blacks are dumb, or stupid, or anything like that. Its because the black community does not stand up to the people who do this- they need to turn them in, get them off the streets. Nobody can fix this except the black community themselves- they have the power and the ability. And banning guns will only make crime worse, not better. Its a culture issue, not a gun issue.
Why the "He-l" assault Rifles, etc. are legal is way beyond me and reason. I hunted for 40 yrs., never saw the need for any automatic weapon. The NRA..sooner or later...will be gone. They are total IDIOTS, as are the PA legislative members that keeps company with them. Let's get rid of the automatic weapons...
Shame on the NRA and our entire Senate and House.
Mr Nutter, If the NRA owes the officer's family an apology then so do you. You are the one who presides over this lawless cesspool called philadelphia. If we follow your logic then blacks also owe the officer's family an apology, since the vast majority of murders and major crimes in this city are purpetrated by blacks.
Mr Nutter, If the NRA owes the officer's family an apology then so do you. You are the one who presides over this lawless cesspool called philadelphia. If we follow your logic then blacks also owe the officer's family an apology, since the vast majority of murders and major crimes in this city are purpetrated by blacks.
Nutter: please blame the criminal, blame the fatherless homes in Philly, blame the lack of morals of our youth...but DON'T blame the NRA. It's cheap political pandering.
Nutter isn't the only grandstanding ghoul: the P.C. is pictured with the murder weapon taken apart and partially reassembled to make it look like it has a detachable magazine. To top that off, someone stuck at least one bullet back into the magazine to sex up its appearance.
Can you imagine being the one to RELOAD that mag?
Yuck!
Keep blaming guns, Mr. Mayor. It might get you votes, but it'll never solve crime and violence problems, and you and your politician friends know it. Lengthy incarceration of offenders is the only factor that will have any impact.
The Mayor's comments reflect the growing illogical thinking in our society and probably only were intended to push his personal agenda. Shame on you! Using his logic, then when a drunk driver driving a fancy sports car hits and kills someone, then of course GM or Ford should apologize. Somehow, we can rationalize that it is the person's responsibility to drive while intoxicated. The car cannot drive itself and it therefore people that promote such cars are not responsible. We have so many laws about this driving drunk, yet people continue to get behind a wheel intoxicated and hurt people. Why is it so difficult to then use the same logic with guns. There is not good or bad gun, only the people behind it. You can make all of the laws you want and people like the ones which shot the officier don't really care, they don't follow them. They were robbing a bank for pity sake, it's it obvious. Make it easier to execute killers like that and only then will the killers take note.
Here in central PA we have enough sense to stay away from both garbage piles and manure piles. My family had enough sense to see that Philly would end up as nothing more that a haven for druggies, thieves, pandering politicians and politically correct panty waists. To the poster that wants to come here to Central PA and round us up, best of luck to you. We have been smart enough to keep our aim sharp over the years and can probably hold our own when pushed into it. Why don't you take all your phoney bravery and fix your own putrid mess before you think about coming here? Besides, as long as we still have those weapons, who is going to pick us up you candy a$$ freak s1360m ?
The blame game is not going to do anything, but blowing up north and west philly would.
To Kadam89, have the white community apologized for mass school shootings? Have they apologized for child molestation? Have they apologized for white collar crime? Have they apologized for sexual harrassment, discrimination, racism, slavery, the oppression of Native Americans, WW I, WW II, Vietnam, and Irag? The bulk of these robberies and other crimes committed by poor people are poverty releated (if I have an income, no need to rob anyone), reduce poverty and you reduce crime. Have the white man apologized for helping to create the conditions of poverty or dismal school systems. By the way, have the white community apologized to the Bucks County officer killed a couple years ago? Don't forget the Amish children. Oh please...
You know, I was an NRA member for a year, and some of the posters are right, the NRA is very money hungry. I would get things once a week asking for donations. It got tiring and I let my membership lapse after a year. That said, I am NOT an "inbred NRA moron" as the OP originally posited. I was a resident of the City of Philadelphia for 28 out of my 31 and a half years, and there was no evidence of incest in my family to speak of, to my knowledge (and I'm pretty sure my knowledge was correct). Nutter saying the NRA should apologize is ridiculous, and is really, at first blush, an obvious political play. At second blush, it's kind of sad that he's going to use a dead cop to score political points. The fault here lies with the scumbag career criminals who (while not in prison where they belong) decided that they had so little respect for a human life that they decided to kill someone. Place the blame where it belongs, Mayor Nutter, in the hands of some POS' who thought that they could kill a Philadelphia Police Officer and somehow get away with it, as though the PPD would ever stop looking for them until they could find them. All of this anti-2nd Amendment bashing is not only incorrectly directed at this situation(as I'm positive that AK knock-off SKS wasn't purchased legally), but it's also mis-directed at legal gun owners, the overwhelming majority of which would never even consider taking a shot at anyone (unless in self-defense; myself, as a FLEO, included), but especially a Police Officer. I eagerly anticipate this post never making it past the philly.com left-wing censors.
Yo Klompus, I said "Philly" not "North Philly", which means any area of the city you idiot. Typical Republican, unable to read the facts but now we know its due to illiteracy.
And I can see that you're a tough talker on a comment board....hahaha
NEVER EVER AGAIN INFER RACISM WHEN MISQUOTING ME AGAIN. YOU ARE A PIECE OF WALKING GARBAGE
Yeah, let's blame the NRA for this, not the liberal judge aand liberal criminal justice system that released this savage back on the streets two years ago. Anyone with a brain would realize that all the gun legislation in the world will never stop the Black Market. But then I forgot - Democrats don't have brains.
Yo Old Navy, FYI I had the misfortune of spending 3 years in the Alabama region of PA. Unlike most posters in here, I have a knowledge of the enire state. It's the middle of nowhere, thats why there is less crime. Less crime = less people. The self righteous, moral majority supporting, right wing beleiving, gun owning citizenship of the Central and Northern PA never waste a minute when they have a chance to criticize Philadelphia, but love the tax money that comes from here. The majority of the tax revenue that goes to Harrisburg is origonated from Philadelphia and the four surrounding counties. Go back to the farms and sit at the kid table while the adults do business.
By the way, why aren't you reading a Harrisburg or Gettysburg newspaper today? It must be a stretch for your vocabulary to read the paper from the big city
PA Constitution: “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.” . . . . . . . . TITLE 18 / PA CRIMES CODES / §6120. Limitation on the Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition. (a) General rule. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth. . . . . . . . . PA Supreme Court:
“Because the ownership of firearms is constitutionally protected, its regulation is a matter of statewide concern. The constitution does not provide that the right to bear arms shall not be questioned in any part of the commonwealth except Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, where it may be abridged at will, but that it shall not be questioned in any part of the commonwealth. Thus, regulation of firearms is a matter of concern in all of Pennsylvania, not merely in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and the General Assembly, not city councils, is the proper forum for the imposition of such regulation.” -- Ortiz v. Commonwealth . . . . . . . When all this is amended, overruled and extinguished you liberals might get your Utopia . . . . . Until then wallow in your ignorance and ineffectiveness. Nutter is a disgrace to the human race and is a co-conspirator of these homicidal sociopaths.
I have to laugh at the ignorance of liberals when they are losing an argument and have to start name-calling and roll out the "neocon" name. I laugh because it shows they don't even know what it means. A "Neocon" or "neo-conservative" or "new-conservative" is a social liberal who generally agrees with conservatives in terms of the US having a strong anti-communist (now anti-Islamic fundamentalist) aggressive foreign policy. That's right - one of your guys who got tired of your wimpy spineless foreign policy, and moved out of the dark side of liberalism, at least in one aspect. So you can call me "neocon" all you want - I just laugh at your misinformed ignorance - I am no "neo" or "new" conservative - I've *always* been conservative.
Does Nutter think Ed Rendell's parole board should apologize to the officer's family for releasing the killer from prison early? The "apology" fetish of the Democrat-Media Complex can be taken to many extremes.
Nutter is an idiot. The problem is not the NRA, it's Nutter. State laws do not allow cities to pass their own firearm laws (or vehicle codes or criminal procedure codes, et. al). Rather than confront the issues which underly the violence in Philly, he tries to ban guns. Nutter ignores laws that are inconvenient in order to "prove" that he's trying to do something. He implies the NRA is "obstructionist" when they try to force HIM to obey the law. He should be lobbying Harrisburg instead of pretending he can issue dictatorial decrees. We had the same problem here in San Francisco with another left-wing Democrat mayor. The failure is the city not unifying and supporting its good citizens with opportunities in jobs, education or quality of life issues. If Nutter wants to do something, he needs to address the rampant drug-gang culture, the despair of the poor and support citizens who are trying to clean up their neighborhoods. But all of that takes work. It's much easier to just ban guns and then demonize the NRA to get your sound bite on TV.
Billhca, good and thoughtful point
You liberals in Philly should be the ones apoligizing to the policeman's family. It's your liberal judges and mayors that brought all this violence on you people, not the rednecks in the boonies and their guns. You need to get rid of Nutter and get a man like Guiliani in Philly to clean the place up. Oh no,,, he would be too tough on criminals, we can't have that going on in Philly.
To the city sissy that said the gun people in the boonies would pee their pants if they were in Philly, you have it all wrong. If you had any brains, you'd invite them and their guns all to Philly and in about two weeks it would be cleaned up.
Go into the redneck boonies and try pulling the craap that goes on in Philly and see how long you get away with it there. Some of your Philly trash has invaded Altoona and tried pulling their Philly bit there. They aren't so tough when our boonie judges send them away for 20 or 30 years. More than one of your Philly tough guys has brokern into tears up here in the redneck, gun totting boonies.
I looked up N.R.A. in the dictionary ...$$$$$$$$$
Comment removed.
Mayor Nutter is incredibly stupid. Why should the NRA apologize for this? The convicted felon (who isn't allowed to posses a gun anyway) who shot the cop and the ill-gotten means by which he aquired the gun all get a pass and the NRA takes the blame. Mayor Nutter and the police commisioner should apologize for not effectively policing the city.
Hey old409, the liberal Democrats can't be too tough on the criminals - they need them to vote Democrat in November.
Simply put . . . pro-gun or anti-gun, be it a city mayor or a sales clerk at a retail store. His statements are unprofessional. He made a stand for what he believed and he got beat in the legal game. Simple as that. The NRA cannot possibly "owe" an apology for the death of a police officer anymore then the Chinese can be blamed for allowing there weapon to end up in the hands of criminals in Philly.
Anyone who thinks or supports gun control should check out this link: http://aqeousten.googlepages.com/home
I also highly suggest Mayor Nutter copies and pastes it to his browser.
I may be a redneck, but I'm smart enough to realize this: When you outlaw guns, the only people who have guns are dangerous criminals. Listen, if you don't like what is written in the US Constitution then leave. There are plenty of countries around the world that outlaw guns. Pick one.
"If any other manufactured item caused 11,000 deaths in a year, it would be pulled off the shelves, immediately."
You think so huh? Well FOURTY-THREE THOUSAND deaths are caused each year by automobiles. Do you want them to be banned?
Nutter should apologize to the officer's family for shamelessly using his death to advance his political agenda. To all of the idiots who claimed that the Central PA gunowners would urinate upon themselves after spending one night in North Philly, you're a turd. It's the inner city ghetto trash fears law abiding gun owners far more than police. Surveys of prison inmates have borne this out. I bet you wouldn't see a whole lot of gang related inner city violence if law abiding "assault weapons" owners patrolled the streets in squad sized elements. More than anything, hood rats fear their victims will turn the tables on them.
By the way, "assault weapon" is a term made up by the anti-gun lobby to describe scary looking rifles. It is not a technical term. It was invented out of thin air to sound frightening by liberal advocates for victim disarmament.
Isn't it strange that the idiots who want to ban guns all have them immediately available for their own use? Plus WE get to pay for the cop and bodyguard holding their gun. Had these miscreants been in jail as the Laws provide they wouldn't have been a murder. How many of the Philly killers have a clean sheet? Blame the Criminal unJustice System.
Nutter is a complete and utter moron and he is putting not only his officers' careers at risk, but their families' well being too.
If any one of his officers attempts to enforce his illegal city ordinances which are pre-empted by PA state law, they open themselves up to litigation in which they can not claim immunity 'because it was their job'. When government officials knowingly attempt to enforce an illegal law they can be charged with DEPRIVATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS, and DEPRIVATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS UNDER THE COLOR OF LAW. If those officials injure or kill a citizen while knowingly enforcing an illegal law they could face life in prison or the death penalty. Is that what Nutter really wants? Philly cops have it hard enough already without being forced to commit blatantly illegal acts that will get them sued for every single earthly possession they own the first time they rough up an attorney under the guise of those illegal ordinances.
Herman Cain, the murderer of Officer Liczbinski has a 15 page rap sheet that can be viewed at http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cain-howard-court-summary.pdf
Herman Cain had 16 prior arrests and 7 felony convictions and was released early on parole from a possible 20 year sentence when he killed Officer Liczbinski.
His accomplices had a 5 and 6 page criminal record. That's 26 pages of reasons not to let those copkillers out of prison.
But that idiot wants to blame the non-black middle class NRA members for the actions of 3 violent career criminals. In the immortal words of Dick Cheney, Nutter should "go f--- himself."
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cain-howard-court-summary.pdf
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/warner-levon-court-summary.pdf
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/floyd-eric-court-summary.pdf
Those 3 are links to the 26 page criminal rap sheet for Herman Cain and his two accomplices. There is ample evidence that none of those violent career criminals should have been let out of prison. Yet Herman Cain was paroled at the first chance out of a possible 20 year sentence.
That idiot Nutter is blaming the NRA. I didn't know the NRA in charge of deciding who gets parole or not in the PA dept of corrections.
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death. -- US Code Title 18, Section 242
That is the statute that any officer that knowingly enforces Nutter's illegal laws will be charged with. Please take note of the part that authorizes life in federal prison or the death penalty if a citizen is injured or killed under the guise of law.
Nutter's District Attorney has already said the law is illegal and therefore void. If he orders his officers to enforce it, he risks not only his officers' careers but their families' wellbeing when they are sued for every single earthly possession by the first attorney they try to enforce their illegal city ordinances on.
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