Larry Eichel reports....
Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos are taking a lot of heat today for the questions they asked in last night's Democratic presidential debate. And we understand why some people are angry at them. But we've uncovered's a factual problem with their performance.
In the first question of the night, Gibson asked Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton whether they'd agree to former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo's suggestion that the winner of the delegate fight should be the presidential nominee and the loser should be the running mate. Neither went along with that.
So Gibson pressed: Just to quote from the Constitution again, "In every case" -- Article II, Section 1 -- "after the choice of the president, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the vice president."
Alas, that part of the Constitution no longer applies. And it hasn't for more than 200 years. If it did, John Kerry would be vice president today.
It was superseded by the Twelfth Amendment, which was passed in 1804. The amendment says there will be separate elections for president and vice president. It was adopted after the mess the country went through as the result of the election of 1800, the first time we actually had two parties vying for the presidency.
We put this to an ABC News spokesman who directed us to what Gibson said after quoting the Constitution: "If it was good enough in colonial times, why not in these times?"
This, the spokesman said, indicated that Gibson and ABC knew that this section applied then but doesn't apply now. We can only wonder if the viewing audience could figure all of that out.
Obama made a video for his supporters to display his frustration! Poor Baby!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvUNFmB7Jl8
Actually this criticism seems pretty screwed up.
They had no primaries at the time the Constitution was written, so that part of it could not apply in the case of Obama and Hillary.
I don't think Gibson was claiming that the Constitution literally applies in this case, of course it doesn't, he was talking about the spirit of the thing.
I think Eichel is more "wrong" than Gibson was, in Eichel's citing the 12th Amendment. Like the Constitution, it doesn't apply to primaries.
But Eichel's argument is more wrong than Gibson's is because Eichel is talking about these laws' actually applying to the election, while Gibson was just talking about the spirit of the thing.
One more thing. With dignity and relative deftness I think Obama proved his mettle. He prepared for a policy debate and received a disproportionate number of questions trying to put him on the spot. Obama brought a knife to an Clinton/ABC gun fight--and won--defending his reputation with his brain--something the we as a nation need desperately after 8 long years of Republican criminality. For this reason Obama is going to win this election, in my estimation.
Please. I scratch ALL OVER--with ANY finger that happens to want it more. Sometimes I scratch with more than one finger! He's speaking AND scratching (a droplet of sweat perhaps?)(see lights) He's multitasking. What a silly assertion on your part, Christines. What Republican operation do you belong to, anyway?
HATED THE DEBATE? VOTE MCCAIN '08!
Hillary won the debate...it wasn`t even close...BO was constantly on the defensive...rattled, poorly answering questions he should`ve been asked a long time ago...meanwhile, Hillary only answered the questions put to her directly to the pt...and got into far greater detail when talking about her superior plans...including the one to get out of Iraq...endorsed by over 3x as many high-ranking vet/military officials!...
btw, more good news for Clinton...excellent reviews:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7137 ...
more endorsements ...
http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2008/04/17/Opinion/Editorial.Our.Primary.Picks.Clinton.And.Mccain-3331885.shtml ...
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jX3KE19--QsWXQvChAOkPf7fSQig ...
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7124 ...
more problems for BO...on guns, 'bitter' remarks, voting FOR energy bill...:
please click on links in articles...:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/obama-forgets-w.html ...
http://www.williamsondailynews.com/articles/2008/04/16/news/doc48051f5750c33421919556.txt ...
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7152
Wright, Ayers, Sinclair, Farahkan, the Black Panthers, Rezko, Meeks, Malley, Auchi, Khalidi, McPeaks, Michelle Obama...imagine BO and ALL these friends, associates, endorsers, etc., having a Pres.-Elect party?...after a few, Wright could get up and give another, 'HATE WHITEY AMERICA!', speech...while Rezko`s trying to sell the White House to the Russians...before Lewis Ayers gets a chance to full-fill his life-long dream of blowing it up...meanwhile, BO and Sinclair renew some bad habits together...as Michele likes to watch...would be quite a party...anyone for crashing it...and you thought the Clintons were bad in the White House... j/k...;) ...i`d much rather have the Clintons there maybe - and that`s a HUGE maybe - involved in a scandal which doesn`t affect the American people...this is why the media ignores this garbage for what it is and will continue to ignore it as old news...without the media, the Pubs can`t use it effectively enough to beat her...which makes her far more electable...meamwhile, Hillary`s policies could have us in prosperous times after cleaning up another Bush mess...the Clintons are getting good at that...compare that to BO and Friends...who, quite frankly, may be dangerous to the American people...i know most Pubs feel this way...and half the Dems...which =`s most of America...McCain`s going to wipe the floor with Obama!...they`ll rip him apart with EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE/GROUPS MENTIONED ABOVE!!!
Did the candidates know that? did they reply to it?
Obama tried to get someone to take his place in the Senate for something as a substitute, He didn't know by law and his oath he took he couldn't
guess he found out when he was told about it. LOL
Did the candidates know that? did they reply to it?
Obama tried to get someone to take his place in the Senate for something as a substitute, He didn't know by law and his oath he took he couldn't
guess he found out when he was told about it. LOL
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Obama did MUCH more then give Hillary the finger..on my local network here, they showed more of Obama's speech in North Carolina where he takes his hand and goes to his chin and moves his arm out..ya know, the F U gesture..so yeah there is NO doubt what he meant..so not only is Obama a liar, a hypocrite, a bigot and a racist..but he is also a thug..who in their right mind does that..I hope the media gets into this because it makes him look like a total punk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DygBj4Zw6No&eurl=http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/04/obama-gave-clinton-finger-at-campaign.html
Does Obama know anything about good judgement and class?
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/17/obama-stands-accused-of-conduct-unbecoming-a-presidential-candidate/
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Sorry mike, but Arabic = Muslim, and it might be as "popular as Bob is here", but we are here, not there, and it's not about who else was named Hussein. You can deny that it matters, that's OK. But then I have to ask why you Husseiniacs are so sensitive about it if it doesn't matter?
FROM: USA TODAY
OBAMA FUNDRAISERS: Lobbyist ties
Obama fundraisers who work for law firms that lobby and share the fees include:
�Mark Alderman, managing partner of Philadelphia's WolfBlock law firm. The firm's lobbying subsidiary earned $930,000 in Washington last year representing clients including defense contractor Lockheed Martin, records show.
�Scott Blake Harris, managing partner of Harris, Wiltshire & Grannis, a Washington telecommunications law firm. Harris withdrew as a lobbyist for Microsoft and Cisco in June, but his partners still lobby, he said.
Obama shame:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODuvW5x7gbc
Oh brother! Obama finally gets tough questions and liberals start wailing and complaining. He is in no way fit to govern this nation. He is clearly inept. Thank you, Charlie and George, for stripping the veneer from these two phonies.
Hey Olney. Obama taught the Constitution, I think he knows about it than you do. And he probably was trying to be polite to Gibson even though he knew Gibson was an idiot. If he would have corrected him, the media would have had a headline "Obama rudely corrects moderator". Clearly, given the tone of the moderators he figured there was no point---the media always gets the last word in and never admits faults.
Okay people, let's move on. I am ready for Tuesday. God bless SEN. OBAMA!!!
How many times does Obama have to talk down to voters before they see his true colors?
fafafooey, Hussein is not a Muslim name. It is an arabic name, about as popular as Bob is here. It can be a first, middle or last name. As Barack was a baby, he had no choice in what his father named him. So what does his name have to do with anything except to prove how small-minded you are. Let's see, George Bush. Is he like George Wallace? George Lincoln Rockwell, former head of the American Nazi Party? How about Phyllis George? George III? George Washington (certainly no similarity there)? George Jefferson? Oh, I give up, you wouldn't understand anyway.
It would have helped if he knew where he was at. "LIVE FROM THE KIMMEL CENTER" that was a preview of what was coming.
Why didn't professor Obama pick this up. Colonial times? No wonder Gibson didn't get into law school.
We should give all of them the citizenship test.
This is an Obama immature, "bitter" action using his finger!
http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/04/obama-gave-clinton-finger-at-campaign.html#links
Hey larryschr, the difference between Obama's middle name and Slick Willy's is that Obama's is a MUSLIM name.
The funny thing is that even if the 12th amendment didn't exist, Gibson would STILL be wrong. Party delegates are not "electors". This is just a PRIMARY. And also, it wasn't "colonial times" - that's also wrong, since once the Constitution was in effect, we were no longer "colonies"). And how can ABC have Steffi Stephanopolus moderating this debate - he WORKED FOR the Clintons! Conflict of interest????
dont you realize he was quoting history and suggesting this may be a viable option today? morons!
No, Charlie Gibson doesn't know much about the Constitution. He also doesn't know that teachers and firefighters don't make more than $97K per year. He also doesn't know that the people of Pennsylvania are smarter than he thinks - we base our choice for our presidential candidates on more than lapel jewelry.
What a mishandled affair. ABC should be sanctioned.
Just what is it that make BHO think he is tough enough to be President? A few hard questions and he starts to pout. Hillary Clinton has faced a lot of tough questions. When she made a mistake she admits it, but then she comes back swinging. No question the girl has guts. I would not want to be the one opposing her on health care, jobs, or brining our troops home.
When she is Commander in Chief countries are going to think twice about attacking a friend of the United States. She knows leadership, she will stand tough, and she will do it with the full support of solid allies. McCain is a cowboy; God only knows what he would do in a crisis, but I hope it does not involve nukes as a first option.
Here is a commentator, who can't even wear glasses right. This was th worse debate I have ever seen. One hour of in fighting stuff, and little on issues. That confused me.
Something Hillary supporters do not want you to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDaO7N-JujU&NR=1
You know, if Obama's middle name is that important to you, you must have loved William Jefferson Clinton!
The use of the constitution in that manner was only to insite an angry exchange between the two candidates. Senator Obama is respected by many for taking the high road with Clinton and not attacking her on her BOSNIA LIE!!!!!!!PAY ATTENTION, A NEW WAY TO DO BUSINESS IN WASHINGTON, CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. BRING ON THE REPUBS---OBAMA '08.
Forget Gibson. Do the CANDIDATES know the Constitution? All three of them, Hillary, Barak, and McCain have platforms and policies which the Constitution does not authorize. The powers of the President are clearly marked in our Constitution and most of what they want to "do" they simply cannot. What are they going to "do" about health care, guns, education, gas, and so on? They only thing they can do is ask the states and local government to pass better laws. Nowhere in the Constitution is the federal government given power to involve itself in those issues. The powers granted are limited to each branch in a beautiful system of checks and balances, and the 10th Amendment basically says, "if we forgot anything it's reserved to the states or the people." Thomas Edison said it best once, "The strength of the Constitution lies in the will of the people do defend it." It's up to you people and it's starts with Congress who controls the money--not these beauty pageants we call presidential races.
The Pastor as well AS WELL AS THE MEMBERSHIP of TRINITY United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
Obama is a member of Trinity, therefore the above 10 points must be his vision for America ARE THEY YOURS?
I don't know if the Rev Wright loves America, but his friend sure does:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PWxNeGOXSoA
Frankly, last night's debate was just a conspracy between Hillary and her two supporting phony moderators to attack Senator Obama who was, like all voters, expecting a genuine debate on what hurts Americans today. For Hillary and Stephanopoulos to pull the Bill Ayers false propaganda on Senator Obama is disgracefully atrocious and mallicious. The fact check on Senator Obama's link to Ayers, as Hillary and Stephanopoulos chose to scandalize is pure BS. The fact check on this is on AP, Washington Post, etc.
True PA Democrats should vote Hillary out of the race before she pump out more lies about Senator Obama. She knows that many poor people and the elderly folks don't normally browse the internet for facts. She knows that she has to lie to get those demography of voters to vote for her. Of course, she will get the support of those who have enriched themselves through Bill Clinton and will do anything dishonest in the hope they can continue to win favors from the Clintons.
Go check out the polls at realclearpolitics. Except for the way she blinds so many voters in PA, the rest of the nation has polled her to lose against McCain. By the way, most polls show Senator Obama ahead of McCain. It's time real PA Democrats do their part wisely. They need to think of the democratic Party and the country, not what they can personally gain by being the Clinton buddies.
IDIOTS!!!! NOTHING BUT IDIOTS!!!!!
This is such a stupid article. I'm embarrassed that Philly.com has it as their lead story and for Larry Eichel. It was obvious that Charlie Gibson was just asking the candidates whether the constitutional provision which applied back then should apply now to democratic ticket.
You know what...If Charlie and George had made OBAMA look good all of you OBAMERs would have been singing their praises. Just because Obama flubbed you guys all over C&A. Well, you know Obama made Obama look bad...take some responsibility for goodness sakes.
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Lets not forget that hack over at NBC, Tim Russert. He said it was "All about Iowa"...then New Hampshire...etc... He should be hawking used cars in Turnersville.
My shrink has cleared me of my paranoia and so I am visited by a memory of an ABC Nightline broadcast in 1992: Two men, faces darkened to obscure their identities, describe a scene from a party where marijuana was found in an ashtray. They indicate that Gov. Jerry Brown-D had attended the party. Shivers! At the time of the ABC broadcast Gov. Brown-D was a presidential candidate. No specifics. That was it. Pow. Over to Jerry, responding only that the report was ridiculous. It swiftboated him. His numbers fell never to recover.
Last night was just the latest in corporate media disservice to the public interest. Let not the malaise set in. I retreat into Sports. Go Flyers.
George and Charlie lost the plot.
Another of Obama's lies last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxYmkjuTdDc&eurl=http://noquarterusa.net/blog/
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Don't focus on moderators , focus on the person who could be our president.
Worse yet when OBAMA opens his mouth without a teleprompter on the Economy, Iraq, anything....disaster.
Here is the real candidate
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ionFwC1UUUw
Last nights debate showed just how out of touch Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos are and was a stinging indictment of the network news system. ABC should be honest and fold it's news division into its entertainment division and call it a deal.
What a lame excuse for not admitting he got his facts wrong
I thought it was pretty clear that Gibson was referring to the way things once were. And for those that didn't pick up on that, it's probably best that they don't vote.
Unless Fox News is running the debate you will have a bunch of idiot left-wingers spewing crazy questions like the one Stefalupakus asked Barrack Huessin Obama about whether Rev. Wright loves America!
HATED THE DEBATE? VOTE MCCAIN '08!
He didn't even know where he was. The first two times, Gibson said he was at the National Consitutional Center; he didn't get the name right - National Constitution Center - until after the first break. He was more accurate than I thought: I wouldn't have been surprised if everyone had gotten up and walked out.
Jeanette, here's a newsflash for you... Obama could care less what people in PA think!!! Didn't he already establish that when he gave that speech to those millionaires in San Francisco... Here's another one for you too, they're BOTH liars AND phony!!! They're both the same politician!!!
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And the whole affair was at the Constitution Center, to boot! Maybe Charlie and George should've taken a stroll around the exhibits before the debate!
This is the biggest waste of an article...he said something like, "If it was good enough for them then...then why not now?" He knows it doesn't apply now.
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Gibson is a hack. And George Stef is one step aboce amoeba.
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Charlie Gibson knows bubkes. What a talking head.
I'm an Obama supporter and I agree he didn't do as well last night as he could have, but as a NJ resident I feel bad for PA because they got jipped out of hearing their extensive views and plans on the real issues facing our country. No wonder I don't watch ABC. Although I'll still take Obama's gaffes over Clinton's lies (i.e. Bosnia), misjudgments (i.e. war) and embellishments (i.e. gun stories).
Gibson performance seems to reinforce the impression that the media is just another collection of pseudo-political parties or WAGS. It was hard to know who was "debating" and who was "moderating".
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They were not prepared to ask any question of interest to PAs. They were only intent on bringing Obama down. They had a good try but failed woefully. If they thought they were doing Clinton a favour, they missed the point because they ended up opening more arsenic on her side. PA, please let us move on we ve so much more things to bring us together than to divide us. This is our chance to prove that point in America and no ABC diddler shall deter us!
It doesnt surprise me..... his presentation was bogus.
Larry, the Inquirer should pay you more.
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About Inquirer political writers
The Inauguration: Jan. 20 blog brings you coverage of President-elect Barack Obama's transition into office.
It's written by political journalists from the Philadelphia Inquirer. Send us your comments -- and news tips -- at this address.
Thomas Fitzgerald joined The Philadelphia Inquirer in 2000, and has covered Harrisburg as well as city, state and national politics for the newspaper. He was a “boy on the bus” in the 2004 presidential campaign and during primary contests in 2000 and 1996.
Nathan Gorenstein has covered politics and government in the city, state and nation for the Inquirer. He's worked in the city hall bureau, had a stint on the business desk, and once covered the suburbs. After serving as assistant regional editor, he was named editor of the "Politics" web site.
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