Happ or Halladay?
Amid the giddiness of Sunday's shutout and sweep of the Marlins, I typed this into my Facebook page: ``Happ or Halladay?''
Happ or Halladay?
Sam Donnellon, Daily News Sports Columnist
Amid the giddiness of Sunday’s shutout and sweep of the Marlins, I typed this into my Facebook page:
``Happ or Halladay?’’
When I went to the page this morning, I found about two pages of responses, and the count, as I write this, is 10 for making the much –talked about trade, and 10 against.
What I found even more interesting was the timing of the comments. The first 10 people urged restraint, arguing that Happ was worth keeping and mortgaging the farm was a bad idea for a 32-year-old arm signed through next year.
The next 10 however spoke about making the team great for this season, making a chance at repeating as world champions worth the price and the risk. There was no back and forth. First 10 yeah. Next 10 nay.
Pushing aside for a moment the anxiety over losing a potentially dominant player like Michael Taylor (remember how close this team was to trading Ryan Howard?), I am curious over one thing. If this is about winning right now, then why is Kyle Drabek less expendable than Happ? If you give me the choice between a rotation, right now, of Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ and Moyer/Martinez/Lopez, or one that simply switches Happ and Halladay, why wouldn’t I want the former? And if this is about winning right now, and maybe next year too, then why is Drabek untouchable and Happ not?
Because he might be the next Tom Seaver? What if he’s not. And by the way, Seaver was an uninjurable, inning-eating horse for the first part of his career. Drabek already has an injury asterisk attached.
And what if Happ is Tom Glavine for the next five years?
Happ is old for a rookie, no doubt. But as he showed in escaping that no-out, bases-loaded jam Sunday, that’s not all bad. Again, if we’re talking now, and if the Blue Jays would really take Drabek over Happ, then what’s the haggle?
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The haggle is if they want both Drabek & Happ to make the trade? I'd give either and Taylor but both? Not sure I would do that. Taylor's not going to help until you lose Raul and at that point you lose quite a few others as well so he's expendable. Keep Brown, Marson and Happ and give them any other three prospects and get it done and give yourself an above average shot an winning this year and next and worry about 2011 later. Go sign that Chapman kid from Cuba with the money you make in the playoffs and World Series and you replaced the loss of Drabek. Not my money and I can easily spend it!— Wheelermustgo- Wh is right. *I want both Drabek and Happ and I could care less about Carlos, Kendrick, Savery, Carpenter, and surely Meyers. Why not trade Brett? Surely, 5 pitchers who could make up the Jays staff for years plus either Brown or Taylor would be a good deal. But, if not, Drabek, Happ, Cole, Blanton and a 5th guy should be a nice effort for years to come too.— KGKoons
We've all bought into the hype that it takes all these great prospects to get this done. What IF Amaro offers Savery, Donald, Carrasco and Taylor OR Brown not both? Do you really believe another GM tops that? Or that Riccardi could say no to that if it is the best offer on the table?- What a writer who wants to keep J.A.??? Wow, what will your peers think of such stupidity Sam? But you are correct. If the Phils do the deal it won't include J.A. Happ. Give em Drabek, Carassco, and two more from the farm and I do it. Just don't give them J.A. Oh the stupidity...— greenflyer
If you want a chance at not just 1 not 2 but 3 world series rings you take that chance. Who here thinks that happ drabek are going to win a cy young in the next three years? If you do your probably posting from a mental health facility. Rings matter being good is overrated. Who remembers good players? you remember the ones that one it all not the ones that were just decent. Take a chance...- If they can get this done and keep Happ OR Drabek and Taylor OR Brown I do it in 2 seconds flat!
- I'd give them Taylor, Donald, and Drabek.— kgochenour
- I agree, Drabek is the great unknown...Dangle him and get Halladay!— Jim M.
- The thing about Happ is he is not a prospect anymore - he's a major league pitcher now. This is not Kyle Kendrick, who generally didn't make it out of the 6th inning(if he made it that far), got by on extra run support, a little luck, and the fact that guys hadn't seen his stuff before. Happ gets deep into games, battles through tough spots to get big outs, has good velocity and great location on his pitches. He may never be as good as Halladay, and guys may start to catch up to him a bit as they see him a second and third time, but he's going to be a solid starter in this league. Trading him for does not get you another starter, it just upgrades one - and still leaves you with a hole to fill. I'd consider almost any combination of prospects, but lets be real about who those guys are and who they arent.— K,M
- Is there a guarantee that the Phillies win the World Series of they add Halladay? This is a bogus conversation. Here's my question: Are you ok if the Phillies make the trade and never win a World Series while Haladay is on their staff? If you're alright with that, then you support this trade. The most likely scenario is that the Phillies will not win another World Series. In two years, when Halladay is gone and the prospects we traded are having solid results, what will you think of the trade then? Will you be happy that they went for it and still go to games and watch them if they are losing. I believe the Phillies have a solid chance to repeat as they are now. How much does getting Halladay improve their chances? Hamels had a great playoff last year but he couldn't win it himself. It takes a team effort.— MikeP
- Drabek, Carrasco, Donald and Taylor could get Halladay.— ESFjellin
- This Phillies team has a definite shelf life - they have a lot of guys who have contracts that run out in the next couple of years, so depending on how they mvoe ahead, they could be in a rebuilding mode by 2012. That said, I think you have to make a run now. Any prospect could be the next Pujols or Seaver, but they could also be busts. Taylor seems like the real gem here. The Phillies always seem to find guys who come up as rookies and reel off a bunch of wins before coming back to earth. If they give up Happ or Drabek and find a way to keep Taylor, great, but if they have to trade him, then do it to get a shot now.— Steve2181
- Mike, the problem with that argument is that there's no guarantee that they ever win a World Series with Drabek, Carrasco, Carpenter, Knapp or anyone else in the rotation. The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. If you can get Halladay while keeping Happ, then I think you've got to go for it. Did someone actually suggest trading Brett Myers? Are you kidding me? The guy is in the last year of his contract and he's out for the rest of the season. What sort of trade value does he have if he can't play and he's going to be a free-agent at the end of the season. Generally rule of thumb, if your team doesn't think highly of a player, then other teams probably won't either. The Jays aren't going to take 10 mediocre players for Halladay.— JimG
- I don't think the Jays want Happ or Drabek. Toronto is already loaded with young pitching. Remember 4/5ths of their projected starting staff is injured and they are still pretty good. That means their 6 through 9 starters have been pretty good. Taylor & Donald would be a more viable target for them.— FetchDixon
- There are no guarantees that you will win. You have to play the percentages. The Eagles appear to have decided that if you field a competitive team every year, eventually you will catch lightning in a bottle, and how has that worked out? The Phillies finally have, and are using, the resources to build a productive farm system, but NO ONE can say with authority that those kids will ever be able to play in the Bigs. They are all "maybes," even the best of them. I will take a guy who has proven that he can win in the major leagues over five guys who might be able to.— Steve2181
Reach Sam at donnels@phillynews.com.
