Clinton vs. Obama - Iran, Iraq, gas, and will the GOP take Obama down?
Obama defends his electability; Clinton invokes the 1990s.
Clinton vs. Obama - Iran, Iraq, gas, and will the GOP take Obama down?
PA Primary team reports:
10 p.m.
So who won? We blog, you decide.
But...Obama was frequently tentative. Hillary, not so much.
9:40 p.m.
Gas prices at $4 a gallon?
Hillary has an answer. Investigation. “There is market manipulation.” And she has an energy plan.
Obama returns to his theme: people are cynical because the nation has been talking about energy independence for decades, with nothing happening. He proposes an energy “Manhattan Project.”
9:33 p.m.
Gibson asks if they are being hypocrites by having pro-gun control records, but spending the Pennsylvania campaign hanging with hunters.
Clinton again invokes Bill – on police officers and the assault weapons ban. (She’ll bring it back.) “I respect the Second Amendment...but most lawful gun owners…want to be sure we keep those guns out of the wrong hands.”
Obama is again less certain, and rambles a bit when asked about the Washington D.C. gun ban. Gibson asks him to deny that he advocated a complete ban on hand guns in 1996. Obama says no. But whatever the truth, no other answer is possible.
Does Clinton support the D.C. ban on hand guns? She favors “what works in New York.” Says there should be local control on guns. Which opens the door to the rules in Montana as well as D.C.
9:18 p.m.
Obama says he would consider having people making more than $97,000 pay Social Security taxes on the higher income.
Clinton invokes Bill's economy again.
Clinton appears more assured than Obama. The problem with debating the details of economic policy, or any policy, for that matter, is the actual details can't be known until the Congressional sausage making machine kicks in. Or off.
9:15 p.m.
After an hour they move onto domestic issues…taxes, housing.
A debate over capital gains taxes. Would Obama raise the rate? Pretty much. With a 15 percent rate, billionaires “are paying a lower tax rate than their secretaries. That’s not fair.”
Clinton invokes the economy under Bill. “We’ve lost that.”
“Good union jobs,” is her goal, she says. No mention that union ranks have been shrinking for decades. She praises Gov. Rendell. Camera cuts to him. He is slumped in his chair, but watching intently.
As for the tax: “I wouldn’t raise it above the 20 percent if I raised it at all.”
9:03 p.m.
Clinton sounds more assured on a Middle East policy question - should it be us policy to treat an Iranian nuclear attack on Israel as an attack on US?
“I’d try and stop them from getting weapons,” he said. “I will take no options off the table…it is very important than Iran understands an attack on Israel is an attack on our strongest ally in the region…that would be an act of aggression”
Clinton is blunter. “An attack on Israel would incur massive retaliation from the United state” but she would include Iranian attacks on other allied countries in the region, too.
8:54 p.m.
To Clinton – if the military told you that pulling out of Iraq would give back all of the gains, would you still pull out?
“Yes”
“So we can begin with withdraw within 60 says…in a careful…manner” Loophole?
No one can predict what will happen, she says, when American troops leave.
8:40 p.m.
Then Obama tries to take the high ground. Why are we “obsessed” with his comments and Clinton’s Bosnia account. Just mistakes, pretty irrelevant. How about changing the culture of Washington D.C.?
But the issues Obama complains about keep coming.
Why doesn’t Obama wear a flag pin. He tries to rise above it.
"There is no other country where my story is even possible.”
He decries "manufactured issues." Like a former member of the Weather Underground who he knew in Chicago. These are the issues the GOP are expected to use against him.
"This kind of game, in which anyone I know, regardless of how flimsy the relation is..American people are smarter than that."
One test will come April 22.
And Clinton tests it now. Says Obama served on a board with the man. "Certainly, the Republicans will be raising" the issue.
"I have a lot of baggage, and people have rummaged through it for years."
ABC and Clinton may be doing Obama a favor. Giving him a chance to address and, perhaps, knock down these issues, and on Tuesday see whether it work.
8:32 p.m.
Clinton goes nuclear. Or at least deploys the blockbuster bomb in her suitcase.
First, Obama is asked what will you do when the GOP plays those sermons on TV again and again
“If not this, it would be something else.”
“I have confidence in the American people..when they see my track record, the work that I have done, I have absolute confidence they can rally behind my campaign.”
Clinton demurs. And opens the suitcase. “It is something that deserves further exploration…as leaders we have a choice who we associate with." Like, she says, Farrakhan and "giving the church bulletin over to…Hamas.”
8:21 p.m.
"Charlie” Gibson for some reason starts off with a totally irrelevant issue – the vice-presidency. Who cares at this point?
Then he goes right for it. You were patronizing, Gibson asks. And didn’t you say actually what you meant?
Obama’s answer is awkward. Not a clean hit. He talks about people clinging to religion, which sounds a bit like what he said in San Francisco.
Can Obama beat McCain Clinton is asked? “We’re going to have a Democratic president. It’s either going to be Barack or me.”
Asked a second time, she says, “Yes, yes, yes.” Takes a punch for the party. Though she allows she’d be better. They both agree they themselves are best candidate.
Obama comes back to the elitist etc. He talks about his own faith, and Illinois gun owners. He is now a lot more comfortable.
“You take one (mangled) statement…and beat it to death….Its not helping that person at the kitchen table.”
“She’s adopting the same tactics” as the GOP has used. “They are frustrated and angry be cause this is what passes for our politics.”
(It would be fascinating to see their internal polling on the issue.)
8:06 p.m.
Clinton notes the historic nature of their appearance. Neither she, a woman, or Obama, black, would have been allowed to participate in the deliberations at Independence Hall in 1776.
8:02 p.m.
Seconds into the debate raises the "bitter" issue himself, but instead calls it "frustration." Will it inoculate himself against Clinton.
7:45 p.m.
The small audience is already in the National Constitution Center. The debate is being billed by ABC as the "Prime-Time Showdown." Not quite the OK Corral, we trust. It will be moderated by ABC's Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exsmFDYyK4U I like that she boxed herself in tonight and admitted that Sen. Obama is electable. Her whole campaign was run on grounds that Sen. Obama wasn't electable. Now she will not be able to sway the rest of the undesided superdelagates. She got herself caught big time - she is the biggest fake ever. Look at that video - man, what a statment that makes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exsmFDYyK4U— Europaer- Hillary was given the questions before the debate! ABC i mean Fox! If Hillary wins, I will vote McCain— bobbi
- Do Gibson and Stephanopolous really think the people of PA are so stupid they won't recognize blatant bias when they see it? Talk about being elitist snobs. Maybe GS is looking for another White House position as a reward. There's no way he should have been allowed to moderate and ABC should be ashamed. What a joke. If the people of PA should be bitter about anything it should be about the way the media has been sucked into the Clinton strategy of wasting everyone's time focused on nonsense issues. She can't win on the merits, she admits she's a liar (including first saying Obama wasn't electable then admitting he is) but she knows that if she makes something into a big deal and can get some media suckers to buy into it they'll fall for it hook line and sinker. Maybe the next President and Congress should require media reporters and moderators to take a civics lesson before being allowed to moderate, clearly they have no clue what government means to the people or how to focus on important issues.— Exfan
- abc is under siege. i signed onto their website in order to voice my displeasure... so did over 8,100 people. most are insulted about the ludicrous questions and unprofessional manner of the moderators at such a crucial time in our history. i would hit the refresh button every 3 to 4 minutes and the count would jump by two or three hundred. i won't be surprised if they crash... the people are angry, VERY angry.— ariadne
- Both suck.. If this is the best the democaratic party can do, don't complain when the Republicans win in November.— Gary Varsho
Comment removed.- What a sorry performance by ABC 'News'. They're going to take a lot of heat for this. This is the man, William Ayers, that the so-called monitors of the debate were discrediting Obama for having a distant association with: "He serves on city charities, was an education aide to Mayor Daley, and is a Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois – Chicago. His wife, Bernadine Dohrn, is now the director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at Northwestern University Law School and has taught courses at the University of Chicago. She is an important children’s rights advocate in the Chicago area." re: flag-pin "controversy"... *The* most patriotic Americans are those that serve our country: soldiers, policemen, firemen, community volunteers, and yes, even our politicians. I don't need our politicians to wear a uniform to prove to me that they're patriotic. The fact that these men and women run for office shows they're committed to this country more than most of the television 'analysts' (or you and me) Here's what a neighbor of William Ayers says about the man and their neighborhood: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/16/231245/285/71/497244— ayjaymay
HILLARY WON THIS IN A SLAM DUNK. SHE WAS COHESIVE, INTELLIGENT, SELF-ASSURED PREPARED AND INSIGHTFUL. OBAMA SEEMED UNSURE AND ILL-PREPARED. SHE WAS PRESIDENTIAL. HE SHOWED TONIGHT HIS INEXPERIENCE.— PHAZED- HILLARY WON THIS IN A SLAM DUNK. SHE WAS COHESIVE, INTELLIGENT, SELF-ASSURED PREPARED AND INSIGHTFUL. OBAMA SEEMED UNSURE AND ILL-PREPARED. SHE WAS PRESIDENTIAL. HE SHOWED TONIGHT HIS INEXPERIENCE.— PHAZED
- That was the saddest excuse for a debate I have ever seen. It was a true insult to the voters. They should not have allowed someone who used to work for one of the candidate's spouses to run the thing. What a freakin travesty.— jimmbarr
- The wife and I had our 2 daughters watching with us, hoping to find where these 2 candidates stand on issues that will give the girls a future to look forward to. Frankly we were shocked at the way this debate is being handled through ABC. We decided to send the girls to bed early. The debate was so hopelessly lacking of issues affecting the real miseries and woes, faced by this nation. The moderators behave like kitchen-sink, cannon-blasting, tabloid buffs. And Senator Clinton continues to show that she is nothing more than a frustrated old gossiper who just loves to keep nagging at the same old kitchen-sink tales. Besides, who cares about Rev. Wright today. Who cares about the weather Underground movement that happened in the 60s when literally all American youths were at rage against the Vietnam war. Besides, Bill Clinton, as recent as 2001, pardon 2 Weather Underground women who were, unlike Bill Ayers, were actually jailed. One evidence revealed by this debate is that Senator Obama was still able to keep his cool and calm despite the attacks from Senator Clinton and the moderators. A quality that an American President is expected to exhibit. It is also does indicate that Senator Obama does reach out to everyone, including sinners and fallen guys. When uniting America, a President is expected to try to reach out to everyone, not some approved and selected groups. Senator Obama has a inborn gift to reach out to everyone. The more people he reaches, the more people will come together to bring the much needed hope and change to America. It would even be better if we have a President who is capable of reaching out to the worst type in our society and inspire them to change for the better. To unite America, an American President has to have the gift to reach out to all. To unite nations, an American President must have the gift to be able to reach out to even the enemies to make them change. Senator Obama has this great gift.— Billbo983
- Hillary Clinton definetly appeared more knowledgeable, with specific plans for the economy, Iraq, education, healthcare etc. Obama appeared bored, defensive and never really answered some of the questions put to him. A friendship will home-grown terrorist William Ayers may seem "distracting" to Obama but voters are entitled to know. Obama sluffed over the question just as he did before when questioned about Tony Rezko and Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Perhaps Obama doesn't want us to know who he really is??????— nurseratchet
- Comment removed.
- Clinton showed she was above everyone when she turned her head and rolled her eyes that maked her look like a snob.SORRY NO VOTE FOR YOU .— NC voter
- It is very interesting to read the diversity of opinion in this country, yet it amazes me that anyone making less than 200K/yr could vote Republican, unless they are not very well educated/informed (yet many people aren't because our education system in this country sucks and the media sucks even more)it proves that we are living in an Orwellian USA when so many people making less than 200K vote Republican or right wing Democrat like Clinton or Lieberman...when it comes between choosing using our taxes to pay for corporate welfare (3 to 9 trillion for the war, 2 trillion for the investment banks, 2 trillion tax breaks for the rich, 800 billion debt financing.. etc)or choosing social services (200 Billion for health care, 200 billion for education, 10 billion for FDA and EPA oversight...etc) many middle class voters prefer giving their tax dollars to war and the super rich...by voting Republican...or right wing Democrat...I don't get it???? yet that is the case. So should we vote Hillary because if we don't all these idiots will vote McCain if Obama becomes the nominee? NO...its time WE THE PEOPLE who can still think freely accept nothing less than true freedom, justice and prosperity for all ...Republicans and Right wing Dems have killed all three, we may lose the general but we must take that risk , give me freedom or give me death!— birdflewover
The Inauguration: Jan. 20 blog brings you coverage of President-elect Barack Obama's transition into office.
It's written by political journalists from the Philadelphia Inquirer. Send us your comments -- and news tips -- at this address.
Thomas Fitzgerald joined The Philadelphia Inquirer in 2000, and has covered Harrisburg as well as city, state and national politics for the newspaper. He was a “boy on the bus” in the 2004 presidential campaign and during primary contests in 2000 and 1996.
Nathan Gorenstein has covered politics and government in the city, state and nation for the Inquirer. He's worked in the city hall bureau, had a stint on the business desk, and once covered the suburbs. After serving as assistant regional editor, he was named editor of the "Politics" web site.
