Winter meetings, day 4
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Winter meetings, day 4
Andy Martino
Here’s Ruben Amaro a few minutes ago on the rumors that talks for Roy Halladay are intensifying between the Phillies and Blue Jays: “I don’t think there is any likeliness (of a big trade happening)…there is nothing likely. How about that?”
It was creative use of the world “likely.” Of course, no trade is “likely,” until just before it happens; there are too many variables and moving parts. But the Phillies are certainly more “likely” than about 27 other teams to acquire the ace.
As we’ve said all along, several factors would have to break the right way for Halladay to become a Phillie: The Yankees and Red Sox would have to bail, because if those two behemoths duked it out for Doc, they’d probably try to outdo one another with trade packages that eclipse what the Phils would want to present. The Yankees lost a few trade chips when they acquired Curtis Granderson last week, but still have the talent to get a deal done, if they are motivated (it should be noted that Yanks' GM Brian Cashman is fiercely protective of his prospects, and would find it difficult to continue trading them this winter).
If the Yanks and Sox do not remain serious players for Halladay, he would probably fall to the Phillies and Angels. According to the Toronto Sun, L.A. yesterday offered pitcher Joe Saunders, shortstop Erik Aybar, and outfielder Peter Bourjos for Halladay. That’s a good offer, and a comparable one from the Phillies, talent-wise, would have to include J.A. Happ and Michael Taylor (Cole Hamels will not be traded). There have been rumors that Halladay wouldn’t go to the Angels because they train in Arizona and the Doc lives in Florida, but it is important to note that he has never actually said that, at least publicly.
Here is what we know: The Phillies and Halladay have long expressed a mutual interest. The Phils have the talent to get a deal done, though they would have to increase payroll to add Halladay—something they have said they do not want to do. Other than the report of the Angels' offer, nothing has changed about this storyline in the past several days.
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With the 26th pick in this morning’s Rule 5 draft, the Phillies selected RHP Kenneth Herndon from the Angels. Herndon, 24, is a 6 foot 5 reliever who throws a power sinker and slider. In the minor league portion of the draft, the Phils pitched RHP Angelo Sanchez, 20, from Minnesota.
“We really like the sinker he has,” pro scouting director Mike Ondo said of Herndon. “We have seen him for three or four years now.”
Pitching for Double-A Arkansas last season, Herndon went 5-6, with 11 saves and a 3.03 earned run average in 50 games. This winter, he pitched for Gigantes del Cibao in the Dominican Winter League, going 2-1 with a 3.86 ERA in 16 appearances
A quick refresher on the Rule 5: Once selected, a player must remain on his new team’s 25-man roster for the entire next season—or the new team risks losing him to the old team again. Last year’s Rule 5-er was Bobby Mosebach, also an Angels reliever, who was returned to L.A. at the end of spring training. Shane Victorino was a notable recent Rule 5 choice who later found success.
The Mets selected righthanded pitcher Carlos Montasario from Lehigh Valley. Montasario came over in 2006 as part of the Bobby Abreu trade.
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Reliever Brandon Lyon signed with Houston last night for a reported three years, $15 million. The righthander was a prime Phillies' target to improve the bullpen, but a person with direct knowledge of the negotiations said that talks between the sides never gained any momentum at all. Amaro had a different take today, saying, "We were in pretty deep."
Comments (63)
Halladay is the best pitcher in the game.He threw three shutouts in September.Some other stars don't throw three shutouts in three years.He puts fear into good hitters,something Happ will never be able to do.As long as it can be done with Happ and Brown,it should be done.Taylor needs to kept for his righty bat and his off the field presence-a Stanford man who is not Tiger.— bigeastbeast- MichaelZoe...you're assessment that hitting coaches figured out Cole Hamels is a classic. lol.— booman55
- Send them Blanton, Happ and Taylor ...— swash1
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YES, YES, YES. The time is now. We can worry about the future later...— delcodanno
MichaelZoe: I will admit at times during the season it did seem like hitters could see Hamels pitches coming from a mile away, but I can't say that hitting coaches for the most part, have figured him out. He does need another pitch, I agree, but unlike other lefty's he does have variations of his off speed stuff, such as his circle change up, and quarter change up.....I think the acquisition of Lee was due to Hamels shaky season, but he was never meant to be a substitute for Cole, just more of someone to take some pressure off him. Turns out he went above and beyond what he was brought in for, but this city does tend to bring out the best in players, e.g., Raul Ibanez.— mikestef100- Comment removed.
- I have no problem with over-paying (hey, it's not MY money!) to get Doc. But we don't want to repeat the mistake(s) of slashing our farm system to get the guy. But if we can get, and then keep him for a few years, I think they COULD part with either Happ or Drabek. And also afford to let one of our two minor-league outfield aces be in the deal, or possibly one of our present big league corner OF's. Because with his arm coming into the rotation, our offense would not have to be capable of NEEDING to score more than five runs a game for a couple of years. I am SO brilliant!— TBear
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- The thing with Halladay's salary is that he's only signed through this season so it's not like we'd be committed to an inflated payroll for 3-4 years. If the asking price comes down on Halladay, I think the Phils would seriously consider pulling the trigger. As for Lyon, good for Amaro for not paying $15 million over 3 years to a guy who would be pitching the 7th to 8th innings for us.— JimG
- Charlie was so enamored with the rookie lefty phenom that he sent Pedro out there in Game Six with the flu. Geez, ya think Halladay might have been a good fit?— dasher
- Why is everybody making or breaking next season on Halliday? The Phils should only do it if they can make a package like they did for Lee -- not giving up its highest prospect but still some really good players. I would work more on signing Lee. Closer aside, the Phils already have what it takes to get back to the Series.— echosmyron
- The guess here is that Roy is (smartly) acting the part of the Phils secret agent since he wants to come here. Here's how. The current Angels package is, by all accounts, a better package than whatever the Phils will offer, yet the deal isn't happening. Only reason I can surmise is because Roy is hijacking the deal, telling the Jays he won't take a trade to the Halos (or perhaps not without an extension), waiting for them to move on with someone else or drop out of the race. That leaves only 3 options: NYY, BOS or PHI. And since the Jays won't trade Roy within the division, it leaves them with Philly or nothing, and if they do nothing, they risk getting nothing for him if Roy is serious about not agreeing to a trade during the season. Since that would be suicide for them, the Jays then take the Phils (lower) offer. I hope I'm right about this, but I would bet good money on it. And for what it's worth, the smart money would be to trade Hamels for Halladay, and not because I'm a Hamels-hater. Quite the contrary. The business reality is that trading Hamels sheds more salary and means giving up fewer, if any, prospects. And it increases the chances of extending one or both of Roy or Cliff. You see, the Phils can afford both long term but they need young, inexpensive arms in the back end of the rotation to absorb the payroll hit in doing so (and Hamels doesn't qualify as inexpensive). But Happ, Drabek and one of Kendrick, Bastardo, Pedro or even Moyer for one year do (and don't foget Brett Myers is still out there...). They also need cheap, young OF's to replace Werth and/or Victorino over the next two years if Shane or Jayson are for real (the reality is that the Phils cannot afford them both if they are both stay at the All-Star level, while also paying Chase and Ryan). So the Phils can start 2010 with Halladay, Lee, Happ, Myers and Moyer/Pedro/Drabek with Brown and Taylor still on the farm. That's the dream sequence. Let's just hope Roy is in fact the secret agent.— bm2626
- Now that I've bloviated about the Halladay situation (see prior post), let's get to the second issue. Ibanez and Moyer. Reports are that the Phils are trying shed Jamie's salary (they'll probably need to eat a mil or two though). BOS is an ideal place to send Raul. I like Raul but his LH bat, with Chase's and Ryan's, just exagerrates the lack of balance and streakiness that all too many times characterized the Phils lineup. But if the Phils can trade Raul for a decent prospect or two, and can shed Jamie's salary, they find themselves with about another $15MM. Francisco can warm left for a year until Taylor is ready. Of course, they could also trade Victorino (move Werth to center) to help replenish the farm and take his $5MM, with some of the aforementioned $15MM, and sign Holliday. Lineup: Rollins (S), Utley (L), Holliday (R), Howard (L), Werth (R), Francisco/Taylor (R), Polanco (R), Ruiz (R). With a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Happ, Blanton and Pedro/Kendrick/Bastardo/Myers, I'd be giddy. I know it won't happen, but economically, it does work. I just don't understand the brass' attachment to Raul. He's a great guy but we need a stud RH bat to bat between Chase and Ryan.— bm2626
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