Winter meetings, day 4
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Winter meetings, day 4
Andy Martino
Here’s Ruben Amaro a few minutes ago on the rumors that talks for Roy Halladay are intensifying between the Phillies and Blue Jays: “I don’t think there is any likeliness (of a big trade happening)…there is nothing likely. How about that?”
It was creative use of the world “likely.” Of course, no trade is “likely,” until just before it happens; there are too many variables and moving parts. But the Phillies are certainly more “likely” than about 27 other teams to acquire the ace.
As we’ve said all along, several factors would have to break the right way for Halladay to become a Phillie: The Yankees and Red Sox would have to bail, because if those two behemoths duked it out for Doc, they’d probably try to outdo one another with trade packages that eclipse what the Phils would want to present. The Yankees lost a few trade chips when they acquired Curtis Granderson last week, but still have the talent to get a deal done, if they are motivated (it should be noted that Yanks' GM Brian Cashman is fiercely protective of his prospects, and would find it difficult to continue trading them this winter).
If the Yanks and Sox do not remain serious players for Halladay, he would probably fall to the Phillies and Angels. According to the Toronto Sun, L.A. yesterday offered pitcher Joe Saunders, shortstop Erik Aybar, and outfielder Peter Bourjos for Halladay. That’s a good offer, and a comparable one from the Phillies, talent-wise, would have to include J.A. Happ and Michael Taylor (Cole Hamels will not be traded). There have been rumors that Halladay wouldn’t go to the Angels because they train in Arizona and the Doc lives in Florida, but it is important to note that he has never actually said that, at least publicly.
Here is what we know: The Phillies and Halladay have long expressed a mutual interest. The Phils have the talent to get a deal done, though they would have to increase payroll to add Halladay—something they have said they do not want to do. Other than the report of the Angels' offer, nothing has changed about this storyline in the past several days.
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With the 26th pick in this morning’s Rule 5 draft, the Phillies selected RHP Kenneth Herndon from the Angels. Herndon, 24, is a 6 foot 5 reliever who throws a power sinker and slider. In the minor league portion of the draft, the Phils pitched RHP Angelo Sanchez, 20, from Minnesota.
“We really like the sinker he has,” pro scouting director Mike Ondo said of Herndon. “We have seen him for three or four years now.”
Pitching for Double-A Arkansas last season, Herndon went 5-6, with 11 saves and a 3.03 earned run average in 50 games. This winter, he pitched for Gigantes del Cibao in the Dominican Winter League, going 2-1 with a 3.86 ERA in 16 appearances
A quick refresher on the Rule 5: Once selected, a player must remain on his new team’s 25-man roster for the entire next season—or the new team risks losing him to the old team again. Last year’s Rule 5-er was Bobby Mosebach, also an Angels reliever, who was returned to L.A. at the end of spring training. Shane Victorino was a notable recent Rule 5 choice who later found success.
The Mets selected righthanded pitcher Carlos Montasario from Lehigh Valley. Montasario came over in 2006 as part of the Bobby Abreu trade.
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Reliever Brandon Lyon signed with Houston last night for a reported three years, $15 million. The righthander was a prime Phillies' target to improve the bullpen, but a person with direct knowledge of the negotiations said that talks between the sides never gained any momentum at all. Amaro had a different take today, saying, "We were in pretty deep."
Comments (63)
I don't care what Ruben has to give up to get Halliday. The future is NOW for the Phillies.— Bobphxville- Trade Hammels, one of the minor league OF's and more!— skins
- If you read 4 different internet sites, you get 4 different favorites to acquire Roy Halladay. The one constant in each of these sites is the mention of the Phillies as still competing in the Halladay sweepstakes. Disconcerting is the mention of the names of J.A. Happ and Cole Hamels as possible trade bait. Including Happ, who was one the Phils' most consistent and effective pitchers last year, in a trade for Halladay would be irresponsible. Including Hamels, who is a much better pitcher than the guy who showed up in 2009, would be impulsive. Happ and Hamels are the future of the Phils pitching staff. Happ was the Sporting News Rookie of the Year in 2009. Hamels was the World Series MVP in 2008. These guys have already proven that they have what it takes to win championships. Happ and Hamels have the potential to become two of the most dominant pitchers in the game. Trading two stars with proven ability and enormous potential for what might amount to a single roll of the dice with Halladay would be short-sighted. The financial considerations alone would make such a trade prohibitive. Happ and Hamels have the potential to win every time they take the mound. Halladay may give up less runs per game, but when the dust finally settles, a win is a win. A Halladay win doesn't count for any more than a Happ or Hamels win. Joe Blanton and Kyle Kendrick are two decent pitchers who are expendable. Happ and Hamels are not. What's more, The Phils' minor league system is overflowing with the kind of talent most other organizations covet. Most of this talent is also expendable. It would be nice to have Roy Halladay in a Phillie uniform, if only for a year, but not at the expense of integral parts of the next decade of Phillie baseball. One internet site is reporting that Halladay wants to pitch for the Phils because his Florida home is close to Clearwater. It might be neighborly for the Phils to grant Halladay his wish, but not at an expense the Phils can't afford.
- skins- why would you trade Hammels, becauase of his 1 bad year? That's crazy to trade a guy who 2 years was the World Series MVP. They will never do that, now I think they should trade Happ if a starting pitcher is part of the deal. Happ was good, but Halladay is great and only a few years older. Least we forget Hallady pitches in the American league east against 2 of the biggest offensive teams in baseball and has won a CY Young, that's a big upside over Happ who could be a 1 year wonder.— bobf876
- onthebucks, good post I agree. Yet at the same time everything Ruben has not said this week screams that the Phils are after Halladay. If the Yanks and Sox are out then a Blanton, Taylor and maybe Gose deal would probably get it done for both sides. That said, I can't see the Phils doing anything without a new contract for Doc as part of the deal. Why trade away a big chunk of the future for 1 year when they can probably only offer a deal to either Lee or Doc but not both? No matter what happens they will not have Lee and Doc in 2011. So I say make sure you have 1 of them and whoever you can get to sign a 3 year deal is your man.— sla6yer
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- Phils won't trade Hamels for Halladay for 2 reasons. 1) Hamels is a 25 year old pitcher who still has a ton of potential for a 32 year old pitcher with only a few more years left. Halladay may be a better pitcher now, but Hamels has a whole lot more baseball in him than Halladay. Plus, Hamels was World Series MVP, he's not a throw away. 2) Toronto wants prospects or players who do not have big contracts yet. They're trying to save money, not bring in someone with a lot of salary.— awl
- Andy - so Herndon has the make the team and stay on it to stay in the organization. What about Sanchez? You differentiated him saying he was from the minor league portion of the draft -- does that have different rules?— dawk2020
- Ruben Amaro - “I don’t think there is any likeliness (of a big trade happening)" MVKrum - "Then I don't think there is any likeliness of another World Series title with this group."— MVKrum
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- OK, so they dont want to increase payroll. With Lee & Halladay having 1 year left on their contracts why not have them both then decide who you want to extend and who hits the FA market after 2010?? I think the fans deserve 1 year with an inflated payroll (excess $140M). Who's with me?— R Mexico
- While I agree with onthebucks reasoning that basically seems to state that you don't mortgage the future for just one year of a good thing, I can't say that Happ and Hamels are the future for the next decade. Hamels, maybe, because he's show us his brilliance before, and everyone from casual viewers to MLB scouts and GMs know he has the stuff. With Happ, you'll probably run into a wider variety of opinions. Sure, he performed well this year, but will he surely continue that success in the years to come when hitters become more used to him. I'm sure he'll make adjustments, but is the pure stuff there, like it is with Hamels? As we all know, pitchers are a mercurial breed, and in my opinion, if you can trade an unproven for one that has proven over many years to be a true ace, I'd do it, especially since the whole "winning now" thing does pertain to our Phils. So, I wouldn't be too heartbroken to see Happ go, do not touch Hamels! I would actually be more sorry to see Michael Taylor go, do not touch Domonic Brown!— y71s73
- Sounds like the Phils are holding out on Brown. Let him go. I love him (and all of these kids) but... Happ, Brown, D'Arnaud/Gose and Cosart/May. If they wanted Hamels instead of Happ, Id do it and draw back one of either Darnaud/Gose or Cosart/May. But you gotta sign Roy long term. 5 years 20 per.— shova
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