Win covers up blunder of yanking Oswalt
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Win covers up blunder of yanking Oswalt
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
(AP Photo/Gregory Bull)
( Gregory Bull)
SAN DIEGO — As Roy Oswalt walked off the field having retired 13 Padres in a row, Carlos Ruiz made a prediction.
“You’re going to finish this game,” his catcher said.
But as soon as Oswalt entered the dugout, Charlie Manuel told the righthander he was done. Oswalt was due to leadoff the ninth inning and Manuel wanted to extend the one-run lead. Plus, Manuel said, he had Brad Lidge to pitch the ninth.
“Oswalt had already done good,” Manuel said.
Lidge, of course, loaded the bases with by hitting Ryan Ludwick on the hand with an 0-2 count. Then, one strike away from winning again, he balked in the tying run.
In the end it was a blunder erased later by Jimmy Rollins’ fantastic slide and Chad Durbin’s fine relief as the Phillies won in 12 innings, 3-2.
But Manuel’s decision to remove Oswalt was a head-scratcher — and this is hardly second-guessing.
Oswalt needed just 11 pitches to finish the eighth. He was at 102 and had cruised past the Padres, his only mistake a solo home run to Yorvit Torrealba in the third inning. He had retired 13 San Diego hitters in a row.
If that’s the other Roy — Halladay — does Manuel do the same thing? He’s had a long leash on Halladay all season. Oswalt, apparently, has yet to merit the same trust.
“I wanted to go back out,” Oswalt said. “I feel like I probably could have finished the game.”
Oswalt said he lobbied his manager. Twelve times this season, he has thrown more than 102 pitches in a game. Manuel didn’t budge. He wanted a pinch hitter to begin the ninth with the top of the order due up. He sent Domonic Brown up for Oswalt. The rookie popped out in foul territory behind third base on the second pitch he said.
“But I understand,” Oswalt said.
It very nearly cost the Phillies their chance to gain ground on the Braves for the first time since Aug. 14. Incredibly, the Phils stand just two back of Atlanta despite not having scored more than three runs in five straight games.
Oswalt has pitched at least seven innings in each of his last four starts and has a 1.24 ERA.
“My mechanics have come around after the first start,” Oswalt said.
He was robbed of a fourth consecutive victory Friday. Oswalt has played every bit the part of ace the Phillies expected when they acquired him. He struck out six and walked none against the Padres on Friday.
He threw 78 of his 102 pitches (76.5 percent) for strikes. He wants to pound the strike zone with regularity. Consider that done.
“Actually,” Oswalt said, “I looked down there one time and I had like five balls in the fifth inning or something.”
It wasn’t good enough for an Oswalt victory Friday, but the Phillies still won. And Oswalt has played every bit the part of ace so far.
Maybe it's time for Manuel to start treating the Roys equally.
Comments (127)
Congrats to Matt Gelb for having the stones to call Charlie out for removing Oswalt. Other writers here would typically either allude to it, or report Charlie's nonsensical double-talk explanations about why he did it.— jman- Thank You for actually pointing out this blunder in print— DPL
Cholly and his pig-headed stubbornness, and his management like a paint by numbers, he is so predictable, are sickening. Blind loyalty to under-achievers like Victorino and Howard, a bias against the rookies ( why isn't Dom Brown starting consistently ), and what appears to be no accountability for gruesome blunders and lapses. Ask yourself this: WWDGD = WHAT WOULD DALLAS GREEN DO? His screams would still be echoing an hour after the game. This team needs a manager with a whip, not empty excuses.
I like Charlie's call to Brad Lidge and the pinch hitter...if the Phillies get another run in the 9th and/or Lidge doesnt hit the batter in the ninth...extra innings are not needed...but that slide by Jimmy in the 12th was worth the stress caused by the balk...that was the most amazing slide I have ever seen!
Lidge's health has been such a question mark the past two seasons, why does Chollie STILL have 100% faith in him?— wylies99- PhillyboyinNYC, as much as I liked Dallas Green and his tactics back in the day, the Phillies recently had Dallas Green lite (Larry Bowa) and it didn't work. Nowadays, screaming doesn't work. Maybe benchings would, but some of these guys seem to only care about collecting a paycheck, which they would do whether playing or not. (Maybe Charlie Bumbles could threaten NOT to take them out for snow-cones after the game!)— jman
- danielboyer, I think Jimmy asked himself WWJWD (what would Jason Werth do?), and did the opposite.— jman
- If Lidge doesn't lose his grip on the ball, game over and another save. You all wouldn't be complaining...well, I guess that's a stretch.— MGB
- If Lidge doesn't lose his grip on the ball, game over and another save. You all wouldn't be complaining...well, I guess that's a stretch.— MGB
- Howard should be benched!— slade1955
- you have to be kidding me...putting your closer in at the 9th inning is a blunder? If we can't count on lidge in the 9th, maybe we should just go back to the old school ways of pitchers pitching complete games every time out. Whatever...you dolt— MFPhils
- MFPHILS .....AYE— tobyjoe
Howard should bunt in his first at bat today to avoid another strikeout. Painfully brutal to watch him right now.— shawnmac- charlie manuel must be spending time with andy reid. i think he is starting to lose his mind.— sackvicknow
- and if oswalt gives up the tying run in the 9th the article would be crucifying him for leaving him in...clowns.— spittooncj
- How in the world do you BALK with the bases loaded????— fansince58
- I've said it before and will say it again Charlie isn't very good with pitchers. Either pulls them to early or leaves them in too late. This team has repeatedly won in spite of Charlie with their talent. That being said if they can get some wins out on the West Coast things will be looking good...they play the braves 6 out of the last 9 and I think we match up well against them. Keep it close til then....— mbutley
- Yep. Charlie is terrible with pitchers. He made so many mistakes in 08 that it cost the team.....He made the right move in going to the closer in the ninth. If the Phils tack on an extra run or two in the 8th, like they SHOULD HAVE, then yes, leave Os in. And spitoon is correct, Gelb..if Os loses the game, then you crucify Charlie for leaving him in.— ESFjellin
- IF MY AUNT HAD BALL'S SHE WOULD BE MY UNCLE.— frank martino
- IF MY AUNT HAD BALL'S SHE WOULD BE MY UNCLE.— frank martino
- IF MY AUNT HAD BALL'S SHE WOULD BE MY UNCLE.— frank martino
- That's what a closer is for! To close out the game! Unfortunately Charlie has more trust in the closer than the closer merits! Hold on it's going to be a bumpy ride.— fsenatore
- A really excellent article, firm but respectful. Many of your readers are too young to remember "he got us to where we are" reliever Mitch Williams, who every Phillie fan knew before hand would serve up that home run pitch. I don't remember the manager's name.— John Scanlon
- I agree that Charlie should of let Oswalt pitch in the 9th, for at least one batter. If he gives up a hit or walk, pull him and bring in the closer. What I find amusing (not really) is how Lidge finds all different ways to give up leads. Normally a closer comes in and blows a lead due to hits or walks. Lidge not only does that, but hits guys, balks, and makes error. Even when you think the game is over, like 2 outs with an 0-2 count, he finds a way to give up a run. What is more concerning is how this team played better offensively when Howard, Utley ,and Victorino were on the bench. It's time to sit Howard down for a few games and Victorino is just a waste of space. He comes up small with RISP all the time. If he makes one clutch hit in the Astros series or even last night, the Phillies win 2 of the Astro games and easily win last night. Once again, he comes up with a man on 3rd base with less than 2 outs and doesn't get a run home. Bases loaded with 1 out and the Phillies fail to score. 1st and 2nd with no outs and they can't even get the runner to 3rd. They might be the worst situational hitting team in the majors. All Howard had to do is make contact to the right side, its 2nd and 3rd and than Werth's ground out up the middle scores an insurance run in the 9th. Instead, he strikes out. Also, when is Manual going to wake up and play some small ball? How about having Victorino bunt once or do a squeez play instead of hoping for the big inning? It never happens!— eaglegrn21
- Pinch hitting, on the road/west coast vs. good pitching with....a rookie, who has no experience as a ph (swinging on 2nd pitch)! And, taking out your #2 ACE after only 102 pitches. Like Andy Reid, Charlie thinks his knowledge is superior to any fan or writer. WRONG boys! When fans/writers watch as much sports as we do over a lifetime many of us know as much or MORE, without bias, than the coaches/managers do. Some of us have been serious coaches and understand the nuances from playing/coaching. Got news for you boys,IT"S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE... you're often wrong Charlie with the pitching staff. There's a saying "Give your players/team a chance to succeed. Put them in the correct situ for that to likely happen". Taking Oswalt out after 102 pitches in the 9th and using a rookie to leadoff (swings at the 2nd pitch) is DEAD WRONG on the Little League, High School or major league level. It's called GUESSING or HOPING, Charlie. It ain't rocket science!!! Dead Wrong!!!!!— stoneman
People who are saying Charlie would have been crucified for leaving Oswalt in, if Oswalt had given up the lead, need to think again. With 102 pitches, Oswalt wasn't done. And the fact that he was leading off the ninth is secondary to this fact: Oswalt has been more reliable than Lidge. If I'm the manager, I go with the guy who is more likely to get the outs. And for me, that's clearly Oswalt. He has all his stuff working and, unlike Lidge, he has confidence in all his pitches and isn't easily rattled. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen Oswalt rattled. But Lidge...
Toby, I thought you were a knucklehead. Then, I learned you're an undercover Braves fan, so that made sense. Who in Philly bothers to post on any Atlanta Braves related journalism website? I would only think Phillies fans not living in Philly would do something like that, if anyone at all.— road515- Let's be fair here....While I know I would not have taken Oswalt out in that situation, it isn't like the move was indefensible...with a one run lead on the road and Oswalt leading off, it is just one of those decisions that get made that are either going to work or they aren't. Lidge HAS been good and Charlie is trying to add another run....if Oswalt was due up 2nd or 3rd and no one had reached base before him, I doubt he would have come out of the game...at least I hope not! ( and please ignore what Charlie said...his comment was based upon him leading off) The bottom line is, despite the struggles, the phils are gonna be fine...2 back with a Braves team that is going in reverse at many levels...While it may be painful to watch the offense at the moment, the fact that Jroll yet again led the team to a late W, is always a good sign. To you many doubters, a reminder that we have watched Howard for years...just chill. The man will pull it together soon enough. He always has and was scorching before he got hurt. Try not to get too worked up.— TheLon
- I have noticed an absence of the Cliff Lee adulations now that he has staggered through his last 5 starts without a win including a drubbing at the hands of the Orioles. What happened to all those people who were constantly posting about how we should still have Lee?— flying pig
- There was absolutely nothing wrong with Charlie pulling Oswalt. I imagine most of you know more about baseball than anyone else. Why aren't you guys out there managing? Anyway. 9 out of 10 managers would have made that same move with "Only" a one run lead. Pay attention dummies, i'll type it again. There was "Only" a one run lead. If it had been either at least a 2 run lead, or the pitcher's spot wasn't do up, he would have left Roy in. I am no rocket scientist, and even I know this. It's basic baseball. Charlie made the correct call, but of course Lidge couldn't hold onto the lead. For Ryan Howard: Dude, you are now the second fastest to reach 1000 Ks in baseball history. C'mon man, what the hell are you seeing at the plate. It's like you are seeing a beach ball leave the pitchers hand, but by the time it reaches the plate, it's a marble. Here's a little help Ry, with two strikes, just don't swing. They are going to throw you balls down and outside, over and over again. They know you are going to swing no matter what. If it's a called strike, let the chips fall where they may. MAKE THEM START THROWING YOU STRIKES!! We need you Ry. We know that your bat could carry us into late Oct., early Nov.. spittoon, my point exactly.— Chaz Goodman
- Cliff Lee knows he is a Yankee next year. He is stealing money from bankrupt Texas, although he went into a little slide with the Phillies at this point last season as well.— road515
Am I the only one who sees Lidge as a mental basket case out there? The guy is wrapped as tight as a drum. In last night's meltdown he: 1- bobbled the bunt and just barely made the play, 2- nearly threw the 1st intentional ball right down the middle of the plate, 3- hit a batter in a clutch situation to load the bases, and 4- committed an inexplicable balk with the bases loaded to tie the game. And all that is on top of his actual pitching. This guy needs a shrink.— bobby- The question is not whether Charlie made the right choice because either one could have led to a win for Oswalt. It's a matter of percentages because baseball is a game of chance. All of the factors need to be weighed and that is where I believe Charlie could have done better. Oswalt was going great and at that point, although it's typically time for the closer, it would not have been my choice.— anotherjoe
- After reading all these posts I feel a little better....I too was about to crucify CM for taking out Oswalt....I too was stunned as Lidge balked in the tying run....and I too was elated to see the incredible JR slide and then watch Durbin nail it down....I guess that's the beauty and the mystery of the game and of being it's fan....Go Phils!— ajp
- Oswalt was pitching GREAT, he retired 13 batters in a row and is a Cy Young caliber pitcher....Manuel needs to leave in there and stop over managing.....Oswalt is better than Lidge, so leave Oswalt in there to get his win that Oswalt earned.— Bill20
- He had brad lidge to pitch in the 9th?....HAH?...Doesn't that make you even more nervous?...get rid of Mole— rocuall
- Just like the bats, Charlie is in a slump too.— Dull
Comment removed.- Hey PhillyboyinNYC - Howard, underachiever? Hmmm, Rookie of the Year, National League MVP, World Series bling, the most home runs in the last five years than any player. Sure, he's having a bad stretch right now. That's the price you pay for only having one rehab start before returning to the club and for playing on a still sore ankle. Of course your boyfriend Chase Utley isn't exactly setting the world on fire, either but you seem to avoid calling him out. He must make you coffee in the morning.— phillyfandc
Maybe Howard should trade that useless bat for a Subway foot long and Jared should be the new batting coach. He has already proven that he knows how to lose. Lidge is a mistake at any time in the game.— Phil Lee- Comment removed.
- Howard stinks and we are stuck with him for another 100 years. They played better with him out of the line-up. Im looking forward to seeing Worthless hit the streets after this year! Watch him swing! He is trying to up his home run numbers for a fat check next year! Balking in a run with 2-outs in the ninth. What a joke! Probably never done before! This team is painful to watch right now except for that awesome slide by Rollins.— Air Force 1
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- FLYING PIG, I talk about LEE every chance I get, and Lee was the odds on favorite to win the AL CY Young until 2 weeks ago and I REMEMBER what LEE did for us in the posteason. I dont know about you but I would rather have LEE than Blanton. THats what it came down to ya know,right? The RYAN HOWARD,the 2nd quickest player IN 150 years of MLB TO REACH 1000 strikeouts. Thats a pretty amazing statement. NO, the Phils have one of the most prolific strikeout artist this world has ever known and Werth cant hit a fastball. Teams are daring him to try and he fall to one knee or falls backward like yesterday. Werth and Howard are stealing money and in my opinion the Phils are a better "team" with Sweeney and Gload at first. HOward may be the worst defensive 1st basemen I have ever seen. HE throws so slowly, and Bourn made Howard look stupid,Howard hesistated on both throws. HE is an automatic,easy out and the Phils beat the Padres in spite of Howard,Werth,and VIctorino, VIctorino is the most undisciplined hitter on team,might be dumbest player,but WErth and Howard are right there with him. This team has no fundamental,couldnt move runners if their lives depended on it and ReFELCTS the intelligence of their BUMBLING MANAGER who has cost the team countless wins with is idiotic decisions. OSWALT retired 13 straight hitters,he dont take him out of one run game for LIDGE,who always seems to find new ways to lose. HITS Ludwick on 0-2 count,dumb. Throw your stupid slider in the dirt. Charlie refuses to hit and run or move runners. He just does the same dumb thing everytime the Phils have 1&2 no outs,or 1st&3rd one out. BE AGGRESIVE,your offense is having trouble string hits together. BE Manager and plot a plan to help the offense. MORe baserunning,hit n runs to stay out of DP's,squeeze plays to get runner home etc!! WHat is Manuel getting paid for? THe Phils should have 5 game lead if it werent for Manuel's dumbness, COX is going to make Charlie want to retire. SHAKE UP THIS LINEUP!
- Went to the game--34,000, and about a third of that Phillies fans, great turnout for Phillies Nation. No quitters here.— eaglescali
- Hey Bobby, couldn't agree more about "Basket Case Brad". It's so obvious, but Charlie's solution is to put all the pressure on him he can. Why not rotate the closers so Lidge get some...relief from the pressure. In this case you can't remove a pitcher of Oswalts caliber, whose throwing that well, for a guy who has blown about 20 saves in the last 2 yrs. Bottom line about Charlie is he has the best lineup and best starters in the league and they continue to struggle to win. Notwithstanding this year's injuries they should be 5 games up.— Fred48
- I'm torn. You pay Lidge to be your closer...But you've brought in another Roy-Ace who could complete the game...Here's the new book...Keep the starting pitcher, relief pitcher who's on a roll to get at least 1 out in the 9th with a 1 run lead and then bring Lidge in. The only health issues Lidge has right now is mental...IMHO— traymelvin
- Managers in today's game are always pulling starters when they should leave them in. When a pitcher is doing well they should leave them in. With the Phillies and the H2O pitchers, there is no good reason to take them out when they are pitchiing well. the bullpen is not better than those three.— krolart
Having this much talent go to waste can only be blamed on one man. "Sorry Charlie"- Robin Roberts is spinning in his grave. So...Oswalt gets a QS. Big deal. Lidge("He's my closer"} gets a Blown Save. That's a bigger deal.— StevenT
- I believe the Phillies problems begins and ends with Charlie. He has made many mistakes in the 8 and 9 innings that have cost the team the game. He obviously is too nice and kind a guy -- every player likes him. For example when they disgraced themselves by loosing 3 games to Houston, he canceled batting practice before Thursday's game because they had just played a night game. What they needed was practice both batting and fielding. What they got was nothing and of course, they lost number 4 to Houston. Tough Love might help the team and the only one who can give it is Charlie.— phillytransplant
- I have a question. If Lidge is the clear closer, and if Manuel has so much confidence in him and is his guy, why did he have Lidge pitch around Gonzalez? If I'm confident in my closer, I tell him to go get it, get him out. Watching this team, with all it's mistakes due to lack of focus, is unbearable, but it's like a car crash, you can't turn away. Especially when Howard is up, you want to see if he's going to flail away at terrible pitches and K again.— Flock
- Time to change Leadships. Can both Amaro and Manuel..— tulsaphil
- Time to change Leaderships. Can both Amaro and Manuel..— tulsaphil
spittoncj, you have to look at how Oswalt was cruising and take that into consideration in the decision. I agree with most of what's been said above. It was a mistake on Charlie's part. Hope he learned from it. So glad to see that Oswalt is a team player. He could be whinning but he's not. The decision looks even worse considering that Lidge is the "closer". I don't trust him to be consistent. When he's efficient it's more the exception that the rule from my point of view. I hope they go in a different direction with regard to a close for next year.— djlen
It is the job of the closer in the 9th with a lead. Besides, Oswalt has had a busy week (playing left field, etc.). It was the right move by the right manager to the wrong closer. Lidge simply is not the pitcher he was in 08. However Charlie did the right thing. Too bad Lidge blows.— Poppys- "If Lidge doesn't lose his grip on the ball, another save"...???? Lidge lost his grip on his brain about a year and a half ago. This guy is a ticking time bomb. If it's a 1 run game, and Lidge is your closer, you stick with the guy who has pitched a hell of a game. Haven't any of you figured it out that Lidge can't handle 1 run games anymore?— Tomme
- If anybody thinks Charlie should give a "Win one for the Gipper speech" every time the Phils make a mistake in a 162 game season, see how that worked out for Lou Pinella. As for "blind loyalty to Howard"... you're kidding right? You have to be kidding. Who has the most HRs in baseball the last 4 years? How about RBIs? Should Tony LaRussa yank Albert Pujols as soon as he goes into a slump? Should Girardi pull Jeter as soon as he has two bad games? Anyone who is still complaining about one of the 5 best managers in baseball should just stop rooting for the Phillies and watch preseason football. You don't know baseball.— JGT
- Cholly is told what to do by Reuben Amaro and the Brass...they're paying Lidge big bucks and he's told to use him...if Cholly says no, he's gone.....he's not his own man....— sonnybuoy01
- Careful what you wish for. Maybe you guys would prefer having Jerry and Omar as your manager and GM. I live in NY. So trust me, the Mets fans here would switch with us in a heartbeat. One other thing: Notice that no matter how much any individual player/s is struggling, there's never any complaining. That is testament of a good manager and a team that sticks together when things are going good or badly. GO PHILS!!!!!— Chaz Goodman
- I agree 100 with Gelp and others. After winning 3 games in a row and retiring 13 hitters in a row and with only 102 pitches, Oswalt deserved to start the ninth. We have witnessed Charlie giving Halladay extra rope even when he wasn't as dominant. Why not give the same treatment to Oswalt. Has he checked Oswalt career second half numbers? Whoever is against that doesn't have a good baseball brain or is Charlie's relative. And JMan, Bowa's being tough with his players didn't work (that's what the press keeps saying) mainly because he didn't have the Club Charlie has now. As a matter of fact Charlie won only 3 more games (83) games in 2005, but that was with Utley and Howard in the lineup and the addition of Kenny Lofton (.335 in 110 games). In 2006 Charlie won only 85 games.— EL Zorro
- This isn't the first time Manuel has made a huge mistake handling his pitchers. He is too focused on the old school theroy of havingto use his closer. He now cost Oswalt a win.— The Marco Islander
- Oswalt Trumps Lee !!!!! How About That ????— mmmike22
- Anyone who thinks Oswalt should have come out of the game doesn't know the game. He only threw 102 pitches and had retired 13 straight hitters. Plus, San Diego was at the end of their order to start the ninth. This has nothing to do with Lidge. Oswalt was mowing them down with ease all night and should have had a chance to finish the game.— theesniper
- second guessing is always easy! If the choice is Oswalt with 8 great innings and low pitch count vs Lidge who can't pitch one inning without major drama, it's kinda a no brainer. So Oswalt leads off, he has as much chance of getting on base as any of the current non-producers. Werth, who everyone feels will not be around next year, is probably the only one who should....he is consistent and finds ways to get on base.Victorino is a huge disappointment and Howard needs to give huge sums of money back. It's sad that a team with this much potential has lost the will to win! Thanks Charlie!— magicmanlv
- He threw only 102 pitches! He retired the last 13 in a row! He deserved a chance to finish the game! The ONLY reason Charlie took him out was because IT WAS THE 9th INNING! That is not a good reason to take Oswalt out of a game that he was completely doninating!— SEEK313
- I'm confused, did we when or lose last night? Not one positive comment on the great slide by JRoll and scoring the winning run. Oh, and the fact that the Phils picked up a game on the Braveless. Typical Negadelphians. GO PHILS!!— Chaz Goodman
- "Win" or lose.— Chaz Goodman
- I don't really have a problem with Charlie yanking Oswalt when he was due to lead off the ninth in a one run game. Lidge gets paid a lot of money to close out games for this team and was on a nice roll until last night. I just hope this was a little bump in the road for Lidge because the Phils won't make the playoffs with a closer who blows one out of every four save opportunities like Brad has done over the last two seasons. This is not last year when the Phils could get by with a less than effective closer.— sazeracking
- Chaz, a lot of people here are undercover (cowardly) fans of other teams. Another large portion of posters are not knowledgeable.— road515
- Chaz, maybe because the article is about the manager's boneheaded move. If you look to the left of the page, there is an article about the slide. Stay focus. And I wouldn't have a problem yanking Oswalt in the ninth either, if we have Mariano Rivera and/or if he wasn't as dominant as last night.— EL Zorro
- There's no way you can call pinch hitting for a pitcher leading off an inning a "blunder." Well, you have, but it's a poor choice of words and not that realistic an expectation. With what we learned would we have preferred to see Oswalt bat for himself? Maybe, but trying to get an insurance run is the normal, expected thing to do. Lidge needs to remember that he's already progressed past Little League and close out that game.— frankenslade
- 20/20 hindsight......If you can't trust your closer in the ninth....Yeah and if the Padres would have scored in the 9th off of Oswalt you would be complaining that he didn't take him out.....— phigglesfan75
- Cholly is the embodiment of Dr. Frankenstein! He can't deal with the old adage of "if it ain't broke don't fix it!" Oswalt was sailing along quite nicely, but noooooooo, we have to pull him out and put in the Wonder Saver, S-head Lidge who couldn't hit the Broad Side of a Barn these days. But he can hit a batter and he can Balk with the best of 'em. Makes ya proud, doesn't it!? If I'm one Lidge's team mates, I'd want to take him out and beat him 'til he can't pitch anymore. Back to Dr. Frankenstein Manuel, QUIT TINKERIN' WITH IT! Every time he does this the train totally derails. If it's workin', leave it alone!— PhillyfaninFL
- Let's face it, Charlie has never been and will never be a master tactician. He will always make head scratching moves. Someday, when this team is over the hill and stops winning as much, that fact will get him fired.— phink
- "OSWALT HAD ALREADY DONE GOOD" Charlie says in pidgin English. Note to MFPhils: WE CAN'T COUNT ON LIDGE or, for that matter, most of the other clowns in that inept bullpen. Charlie has to learn to take the advice of veterans like Halladay and Oswalt when they say they can finish and stop listening to Rich Dubee who goes by pitch count. Lidge is washed up. But he's all we have, unfortunately.— 1republican
- On the plus side, at least we were rewarded with a win while watching a game into the wee morning hours this time, as opposed to the 16 inning debacle. On the minue side, I've never felt this bad about a win. I like Charlie, but it was absolutely a mistake to take Oswald out in the 9th (and I noted this immediately while watching the game, not after witnessing the end result). Yeah, Lidge has done ok as of late, but it's rarely without some drama. If Oswald was due-up with runners on base, then I could see pinch-hitting, but the worst that could have happened is they bring up the top of the order with one out. And as someone else noted previously, I'd trust Oswald more with a bat at this point them some of the starters. It's time to sit "Slappy Victorino" down and let Brown get some regular playing time (Werth is frustating as well, but at least hits the ball hard at times). It's not fair to expect Brown to pinch-hit major league pitching with his amount of experience. Some of you think Howard needs to take more pitches, but I think he needs to swing at the damn ball more often. He lets balls go down the middle of the plate, and then becomes a sucker for the low outside pitch. And he seems to have no idea where the strike zone is. It's ok to swing at the first pitch Ryan. I suspect he'll come out of it, but it's hard to watch.— mechfan2240
MFPHILS, aye. If Oswalt threw 120 pitches and got bombed next time, wouldn't everyone be complaining?- Comment removed.
- Way to go Matt....now it's time for other "writers" to get on the band wagon and ask those "tough" questions... Charlie is not Andy..he will answer questions
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- It is stunning just how spoiled most Phillies fans have become. 162 games...that is the season....NOT 128 games....3 years ago we came roaring back and won it on the last day...2 years ago we came from behind and won the series...last year with a mess of a bullpen we made it to the series...Let the damn thing play out. It is hard to believe how hypercritical so many of you are...how willing you are to ride the emotional roller coaster and be so negative...let the season unfold. I, for one, believe strongly that in the end, the Phils will cross the finish line and have 3 aces to play in the post season— TheLon
- Manuel had no choice but to yank Oswalt. The Padres had him on the ropes all night and his pitch count was way up there. Petco Park is a very dangerous hitter's yard. There's Domonic Brown sitting there who historically owns the Padres bullpen and the heart of the lineup...the big boppers...Utley, Howard, Werth, pick your poison...soon to follow. Plus Lidge is going to come in there and it'll be lights out. What do you expect him to do, get ahead of ancient Matt Stairs and then let him start a rally? Hit a guy buried in the count with two outs and then balk with two strikes on the next hitter with the bases loaded? Oh, wait...— dasher
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- Yes, what did we get Halladay and Oswalt for? I,m so tired of hearing about pitch counts and I,m willing to bet the ranch Halladay and Oswalt are really getting tired of getting yanked early, I could see if we had a great bullpen .— mark e
- I'm sorry but there is no way Lidge should have come in for the 9th. Roy O was dealing last night. He was still sharp, his pitch count wasn't too high, and the way the Phils offense has been producing lately, I'm looking to win with PITCHING and DEFENSE not a rookie pinch hitting off the best bullpen in baseball. Also, although he has pitched better of late, Lidge is no Mo Rivera. Sucks for him how the save got blown, but he shouldn't have been out there in the first place. Oswalt earned the right to open the 9th Oh yeah, Chooch also thought so as well. That alone would have been good enough for me without the other arguements I've typed.— DPL
- I understand why Charlie put Lidge in...He was looking to add possibly an insurance run, and if you can't trust your closer you're not going far anyway. Ruben needed to address the closer situation; and he chose to ignore it because of Lidge's contract. It will come back to bite them.— majorread
- it's easy to second guess. going for more runs is all well and good with a pinch hitter, but sending up a guy with .226 obp doesn't exactly scare other pitchers (no offense to brown who I think will be good.)— tbone pickins
- If "The Roys" tell me in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning that they can still pitch, Lidge and the rest of the ragarms stay on their butts in the bullpen. If Hamels takes lessons from them, the Phils may have three starters that determine their own fates after the 7th. Unfortunately, right now, Pete Mackanin's most important job should be to tie Charley down to the bench in the 6th inning. Someone said the Phils should go after Girardi. Are you kidding? He's from the same school as Charley, The Torre/Larussa School of the 15 Pitcher Bullpen.— MFinSC
- MGB: Your right on it. Even if Lidge closes it these Moronic fans would still find a complaint somewhere. Charlie's got 3 Division Titles, two Pennants and a World Series Championship. I've got no problem with calling Charlie on this as I've always thought ALL Closers are overrated. I like seeing guys finish games. But just because he makes 1 mistake you forget about all the good this guy's done??? You're morons and just what the National Media says about you - boorish.— Phillyexp
- spttooncj: Watch who you're calling clowns. I HARDLY think ANYONE would be crucifying charlie for giving the nod to a guy who has blanked 12 in a row over a guy who has blown about 15 saves in the past year and many more that don't show up in the BS column. The guy regularly gives up at least one run. Maybe you are the clown for not seeing that.— bobbyGinNC
- Go Fightins'— Anthony1957
- Thank you, Matt . . . . . There was no reason whatsoever to remove Oswalt from the game . . . . . Unless, of course, you have Mariano Rivera to turn the game over to . . . . . And we all know that is not the case . . . . . Even then I don't know if I would've have taken Oswalt out.— PhightinPhil
Cholly Manuel is the dumbest boob ever to be called the manager of a MLB team.- OF course it was a mistake, you don't pull a guy that has retired 13 in a row and has only 102 pitches and was begging to stay in. let him finish, if he gets in trouble then you pull him.— angrycitizen
- So all of you second guessers--and I'll include that rookie Matt Gelb--you guys know if Oswalt goes out there in the 9th and gives up a tying HR or puts runners in scoring position, you guys would be screaming because Manuel left him in when he was over 100 pitches. It's another case of damn if you do, damn if you don't. He's going by pctgs--Oswalt was leading off the 9th--as a manager, you have to try to get an insurance run.— eaglebobby1
- MGB...we still would be complaining. Brad is inconsistant with his location..esp. his fast ball. And from the stretch, with men on base...he's aweful. So don't give us that.." if we had won the game with Brad on the mound #$%^@ ". Whenever he's on the mound and we have the lead in the 9th...everyone's sweating bullets!!! And MFPhils....putting your closer in at the 9th is no problem...unless your closer's name is Mitch Williams, Jose Mesa, or Brad Lidge!— tony b
- Will someone, anyone, please explain to our beloved Phils that you actually have to swing the bat to hit the ball. This "take pitch after pitch after pitch" "non-aggressive" run up the pitch count approach is like a disease on this team with Chase and Jason the most badly affected. It's Saturday afternoon and I just watched Chase take 5 pitches without swinging the bat with Jimmy on second and again striking out looking. The Phillies 2010 disease is basically "paralysis by analysis" or in other words trying to have too much discipline at the plate by looking for the perfect pitch. This has gone from a slump to a ridiculous lethargic funk that I don't think they will come out of. I'm starting to think that we may have seen the best this team has to offer and mediocrity looks like what will follow. Hope I'm wrong— kokie
since when is it a bad idea to pinch hit for a pitcher in the 9th inning on the road with only a one run lead?!?!?!?!- Leaving Oswalt in the game -- given his success this year, history and still-manageable pitch count AND the fact that Lidge has lost at least 3 miles on his fastball and has been pretty bad for two years now -- was THE NO-BRAINER thing to do. But it's what most by-the-book managers do these days, which is sad.— VicM
- This is the most common criticism in baseball: manager left pitcher in too long or took him out too early. We won - so water under the bridge. I'm more concerned about the anemic offense.— cea
- john scanlon: here's what i remember. the pigheaded manager's name was jim fregosi. what was particularly galling was a guy named mason had been relatively untouchable in relief before the fateful move of bringing in mitch williams.— escapedcamden4monterey
- This is the way they do it in the national league,Tony Larrusa would have done the same thing,so would Torre,so called great managers.— schmitty71
- I don't care if it's 2008 Lidge. The guys was fresh and flat-out dealing. If you are San Diego, aren't you begging for a shot at anyone else but the guy who is carving you up? I'm a big Manuel backer, and think he got it right on Halladay the other night despite just 73 pitches. But I think he botched this one big-time, and - considering timing and method of implosion - it was nearly a colossal blunder.— EaglesWest
- Yes, Its a BLUNDER when your starter goes 102 Pitches and it took him just 11 to get thru the 8th, Oswalt was in total control, having retired 13 in a row, its HIS GAME. Roy Oswalt is dialed in, he used to be one of the best in the NL and we are seeing why now, he is rejuvinated. At the very least Oswalt shlda been allowed to go out in the 9th and until he allows a BASERUNNER, then pull him. Oswalt is a Horse too, had a very managable pitch count and manhandled the best team in the NL, 1 run leads vs Brad Lidge against good teams dont end well. I am glad Lidge has done well, but allow him to come in when the Pitcher isnt having a totally dominating performance like the Wizard of Oz was having. Charlie says he is a feel guy manages according to the feel of the game,everyone I know myself included felt as if Oswalt was in total control.Once he was being Pinch hit for in bttm of the 8th, the game took on a whole new feel.— bailguy84
- I can say this also, the way the top 4 starters have been pitching, when we get into the Post Season, there is no doubt in my mind this team will go deep into October for a 3rd straight year, look what we have done past 2 w 1 Qaulity starter and a Mental patient in Hamels in 09. This staff and its top 3 ( Blanton has been great last few starts, and today didnt allow a run in 1st ) is the best Staff I can ever say that I have seen in Phila. Our bats are dead, I dunno whats up w that, I dont wanna admit saying maybe we gort old fast,not yet anyway, but I can say this also, Oswalt Pitches like this rest of 2010 and is the man again in 2011 w Halladay and Hamels, we cld have anther great run coming.As a season tix holder of 7 full seasons, its very exciting to be a Phillies fan yet again for the 4th straight season, but this season feels much like 08,call me crazy but look at the starters then and look now, Stretch Run we should win a lot of games, I say we finish at 95-67, just 23 more wins, get your lunch pales ladies and gents, its time to let the real work begin !!— bailguy84
- Totally disagree spitt....should have left Oswalt to pitch 9th and if he gets and out or two, then struggles, bring in Lidge.....if not, it's a complete game and the bullpen is well rested for the next game— FlyShaw
- RAJ, PLEASE PLEASEEEEEEEEE PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE fire Manuel now... I mean right now. The Phillies would be hitting a ton if they didn't have this clueless clown riding on their backs the last 3 + years. His lack of EVER showing a sensible or even common sense baseball strategy coupled with his mindless blunders have cost this team about 10 wins every year. The Phils have won IN SPITE of Manuel, not because of him.. 2 nights ago he decides to have Lidge intentionally walk the potential winning run to pitch to a guy that already had 2 hits????? But 2 weeks ago with 1st base open he decide to pitch to Pujols who crushes one. That was followed by a hit and another dinger.. But the most maddening part of that was that he or Dumbee didn't even go out to talk to Kendrick. They sat there and watched him implode. So they leave him in there to struggle and he gives up a 3rd HR. Only then do they yank him and ship him down to AAA after the game. Madson threw like 10 pitches to get throught the 8th 1,2,3.. What? is his arm going to fall off if he throws the 9th and another 10 pitches? Go with the guy that's hot.. Nope, not Cholly.. he decides to go with the guy who blew a win for you the day before. Wouldn't want to insult his boy Lidgie. He's a dolt people.. a clueless dolt.— dedhed
- What the win covers is the blown save. Who knows what RO had left in the tank at the end? If he blows the lead in the ninth then the writers rattle on about THAT poor decision. A damned if or if not situation given the blown lead.— BEMiller
- what is the point of this second guessing if just to raise the ire of the ill-informed, impatient, hostile Phillie fans. You people are spoiled. The phillies have been an excellent team for several years now, they made it to the world series 2 years in a row winning one. That is an incredible achievement. Enjoy it. I keep a picture of Steve Jeltz and John Felske to remind me of the way things used to be.— notch44
- what is the point of this second guessing if just to raise the ire of the ill-informed, impatient, hostile Phillie fans. You people are spoiled. The phillies have been an excellent team for several years now, they made it to the world series 2 years in a row winning one. That is an incredible achievement. Enjoy it. I keep a picture of Steve Jeltz and John Felske to remind me of the way things used to be.— notch44
- dedhed, I've been saying that for a while. Last postseason he screwed the rotation really bad. In one game he took Pedro out to early when he was still pitching well (I believe it was against the Dodger) and next time he left him too long against the Yankees. In another game, a lost, he used 4 pitchers that were starting pitchers at one point during the season in one game and still lost. In that same game he had to used Lee as a pinch runner because he had nobody else on the bench. He has not clue, period. But don't tell that to the kool aid drinkers and apologists.— EL Zorro
- Phil's just find ways to win even when their offense takes vacations. Oswalt has been awesome as advertised Roy 1.0 is going to get serious Cy votes and Hollywood has been great with no run support at all. On top of the big three Blanton has pitched two consecutive gems. Get in the playoffs and this team is built to win. Still have to get there. Let's Go Phil's!!— Phillyphan26
- How can Charlie have 100% faith in Lidge after he's left him hanging so many times??— downtheshore
- well, whattaya know: a philly spawtzwriter who actually, really, truly, criticizes management for (yet another) unbelievably dead-brain decision. not afraid of being called on the carpet, brother gelb? oh yeah, forgot: the nazis who run this site won't run this post coz it tarnishes the, um, i-n-t-e-g-r-i-t-y of the writers.— kiwi
- Matt I agree with you. It's good that it turned out ok, but it was a better choice to allow Oswalt to at least start the 9th and give him a chance, rather than throw Brown out there to pinch hit. It's unfair to make Brown the designated LH pinch hitter; he is not cut out for that role and the less he is asked to do it the better.— Bob1
- Where are the experts chanting Lee, Lee, Lee. Let Amaro manage personnel affairs. All year people kept asking for Amaro's head. Can you imagine if Utley and Howard start hitting. Of course, that is Amaro's fault too. Let the Phillies alone. I wish all the teams in Philly had these problems. Other than the Yankees, we're still the best!— GOLDY2007
- Yeah, Charlie doesn't know anything- he's only one a world series, two pennants and three division titles in the last three years. This year, every player in the starting eight except for werth was on the DL and he kept this team together. You idiots that want to criticize him should realize he is the best manager in phillies history and this year he's done his best managing job.— KMG
- Manuel wanted to extend the one-run lead? Maybe he forgot what team would be attempting to get that run. The Phils are terrible at the plate, why not just let Roy hit and finish the game? The only thing that might be worse than their hitting is their bullpen. Leave Roy in next time Chucky— kozykoz26
- Brian Fuentes was picked up by Minnesota for a player to be named later,....here's a guy with experience in the NL west in beating LA and SD and also closed for the Rockies and beat SF and STL and probably Atlanta,....we could have had this guy for a player to be named later and Angels would have eaten some salary if the player was decent enough,...Ruben and his cheapness is hurting this team,... Werth should be re-upped cause Brown isn't ready and Cholly isn't ready for him everyday anyway and Fuentes would have helped this team immensely— SyddBarrett
- A World Series championship two years ago doesn't make the manager immune to any criticism at all. Name-calling of fans who are making honest criticisms of baseball strategy only makes you smaller than you already are.— Bob1
- Charlie is an idiot plain and simple he has 2 as Sarge Mathews would say " Cadillacs" and uses them like Etsels He is an offensive minded manager who doesnt know how to handle pitchers. He,s the good ole boy guy who stays with his buddies ie: Greg Dobbs twice that guy has cleared waivers andwho claimed him? NO ONE NOTTA!!! He takes the same approach with Lidge most teams would have sat him down in another role but all Charlie keeps saying is "We pay him alot of money" So what ! You pay Baez alot to but when he stinks it up you dont go to him for a week Charlie should just let Dubee handle the pitchers after all how many years have we pleaded for guys to go 7-8 innings ?— mark e
- what about Lidger now!!!!!....I attend ALL three games in San Diego...what a great turnout for Philly Nation and we rule...SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP— PHILLYMARK
- Charlie Manuel and Andy Reid are two of the worst game day managers in their respective sport. I would have to attribute anywhere from 5-10 losses to Manuel's poor decision making (why he goes to his bullpen when pitchers have given up 1 run or are throwing a shutout is a mystery to me), but in fairness to him most of the other losses are due to poor hitting. I still think the team is doomed in the playoffs because Manuel will pull Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt too early and the bullpen will implode. Bottom line Charlie - let Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt pitch complete games in the playoffs.— joeyc444
- i "yanked my oswalt" twice last night!— greg728
- How does that old saying go about fooling some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but... we are now at the but part folks. He is a waste of oxygen as far as I am concerned. There have be so many comments on these blogs about the age of Ibanez or Moyer etc. but no one ever comments on Charlie's age and the fact that he is just not with it anymore. Give the job to Davey Lopes and hope to salvage the season. Otherwise its gonna be ugly.— Wally 24
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
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