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Monday, April 28, 2008
Where'd Myers' Fastball Go?

Brett Myers has lost his fastball. He needs it back. And fast.Brett Myers is lost.

He can't seem to break 89 mph with his fastball, which is a shock for somebody who always has been able to throw much harder. So he has abandoned his fastball early in games and has tried to fool hitters with his cutter and other offspeed pitches. It hasn't worked. He is 2-2 with a 5.11 ERA after six starts this season.

Charlie Manuel and Rich Dubee are concerned.

Dubee sounds even more frustrated.

"I think it's as simple as him throwing more fastballs and him getting out there and playing some more long toss," Dubee said. "He's not a real big believer in long toss, and I am. I think that's one way you develop arm strength. It gives you some elasticity in your arm, and I think it's something he has to buy into a little more. He doesn't do much at all. Game day, he throws five balls at a long distance and that's it."

Myers said he doesn't throw his fastball because the separation in speeds between the fastball (88 mph) and his cutter (84 mph) isn't enough. So he has thrown the cutter, hoping the extra movement on the ball might fool hitters.

"He wasn't going to throw the cutter today," Dubee said. "See how long that lasted? We were going to throw more curveballs. He threw them to the first couple hitters, and then he put it in his back pocket for whatever reason. We talked about getting away from the cutter and throwing more fastballs and throwing more curveballs because of the separation between the speeds. But he got away from that game plan for whatever reason."

Myers said he is open to doing anything that might pump up the mph on his fastball, and that means more long tossing in between starts.

We'll see what happens.

But it's obvious this is a very real concern. The Phillies expected Myers and Cole Hamels to be their 1-2 punch atop their rotation. If that doesn't happen, it's going to be very tough to hang in the National League East all season.

*

In the Phillies Notebook, the Phillies gave Paul Maholm credit, but they weren't amazed by his two-hitter yesterday in a 5-1 loss to the Pirates.

*

The Phillies today released triple-A Lehigh Valley outfielder Valentino Pascucci.

Posted by Todd Zolecki @ 9:55 AM  Permalink | 43 comments
43
Comments   
Posted 04:27 PM, 04/29/2008
The Wizard
Look at the bright side....maybe he won't beat up his wife anymore!
Posted 09:29 PM, 04/28/2008
Truth
MrPhillie I've said that since the Phillies announced he was going back to the rotation and thst they now have a formidible front end. I laughed so hard. He is a 12-15 win guy max. He has had one season with more than 13 wins. Like I say the Phillies sell it and YOU the fans buy it.
Posted 08:36 PM, 04/28/2008
John in LA
Good point above. Truth, he ain't. Much as I hate Billy "the Rat" Wagner, I keep thinking about his quote that Myers has the arm of a number one and a number 5 head.
Posted 07:22 PM, 04/28/2008
MrPhillie
I'm not sure what the problem with Myers is as far as velocity and whether he may have used steroids...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. It is my opinion that the Phillies were wrong to believe that Bret was a #1 starter because I have really never seen him as that type of quality pitcher. Really, he is a #3...maybe could be stretched to a #2 when he is at his absolute best. Our problem is that we are expecting too much from this guy, I mean, he is a 12-15 win pitcher at best, nothing more. Now that's not bad for a #3 man, but let's stop making him out to be a #1 because he was NEVER that. He is what he is...just a run-of-the-mill "decent" pitcher. Bonafide #1 starters scare hitters at least a little bit...I'm not sure anyone has ever been scared of Bret Myers.
Posted 07:13 PM, 04/28/2008
Norma
You almost have to wonder how much of this is in Brett's head. He loved being the closer. And even though he's "accepted his role" with being back in the rotation, it has to be an adjustment both physically and mentally. I loved Brett in the closer role. But I have to say....Brad Lidge has been brilliant! No wonder they call him "Light's out Lidge"!
Posted 06:53 PM, 04/28/2008
Karen
I MEANT HE'S NOT A STEROID USER....TYPO ON MY PART!! SORRY!!!
Posted 06:52 PM, 04/28/2008
Karen
Just to add...Myers is a steroid user. He needs to lose a few pounds. Plus I think he doesn't like being in the rotation. I think he's better as a closer.
Posted 06:49 PM, 04/28/2008
Karen
Truth keeps us entertained :-) I think Myers velocity "reduction" is probably due to his injury from last year and even though it's hopefully healed it seems to have effected his arm strength. Plus like others have said he's now in the rotation and that probably also has had an effect on him.
Posted 06:22 PM, 04/28/2008
Deb in Dixie
Oh, I know all too well about Truth on here. I don't post much, but I read. I appreciate your posts though Norma.
Posted 06:16 PM, 04/28/2008
Norma
Gee, I forgot to mention.......I'm not buying the steroid argument either. More worried about injury. He wouldn't be the first Phillie in denial.
Posted 06:14 PM, 04/28/2008
Norma
Deb in Dixie......As you can see, Truth just jumps on whichever bandwagon passes his way. No one ever knows what he's talking about. He's the joke of this blog. LOL!
Posted 05:53 PM, 04/28/2008
Deb in Dixie
Wow Truth! I just read this whole thread and it was amazing to see you go from a "he's totally juicing" POV to your last post of "he's not a steroid user. Do get whiplash changing your mind so quick? :)
Posted 05:35 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
PS..all this talk about velocity drops will come to an end once MLB decrees that there is too much discrepancy in the various radar guns readings, that's why the numbers don't add up and everybody must use one brand of gun! Of course that'll throw all the old numbers out with the bath water and no one will be able to make any good arguments anymore as to why a pitchers old numbers and new numbers don't add up.
Posted 05:16 PM, 04/28/2008
Truth
There is one easy way to answer the question with Myers. Find out what his velocity was before he gained 30-40lbs in that one off-season. Was he consistently a 92-95 mph guy in college, minors and with the Phillies until this year? I assume so. The reality is that Myers is not a 'roid user. He is injured, the Phillies didn't diagnose or treat him properly last season. In the heat of the pennant race they may have rushed him back and he didn't have the judgement to rest the injury like Hamels. I didn't miss anything! This one as everything else is on the short sighted Philadelphia Phillies.
Posted 04:58 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
Agreed Gary.....what did it do? Take him from 6 to 15 HRs in a year? Just enough to make an extra $15 mil or so...should be no surprise as to why players do it....all I'm saying is that barring a torn labrum that is degenerating further, isn't the possibility there that Brett was a user and that 5-8 mph missing is because he isn't doing the stuff anymore and what was in his body has worn off?
Posted 04:42 PM, 04/28/2008
dksurf
Terry Harmon...no way, is that you? QVC/2nd Base/blogger?
Posted 03:51 PM, 04/28/2008
Gary Varsho
Mark1npt - I don't disagree that pitchers were(are) as likely to use steroids as hitters and that its obvious with some of them, due to their downfall. But as far as Myers, we're talking about one bad month, and he came off injury last season. And towards the end of last year, I don't remember what his velocity was, but he was more dangerous as a closer with his curveball - so its possible the injury is partly to blame for the decreased velocity. Other than a bad temper, and a fastball that seems off in the first month of this year, there aren't any other indications that he was a steroid or HGH user. Although, if the story ever broke that he was, I wouldn't be 100% surprised. Unlike David Bell, who must have gotten a bad batch!!
Posted 03:46 PM, 04/28/2008
Frank Lloyd Wrong
Come on! I don't buy Brett Myers as a steroid junkie. A 7 MPH drop in velocity a juicer does not make. One thing Phillies pitchers have always had a problem with is fitness. (Cole, cover your ears and keep doing whatever it is you do) Let's go down the list of semi-rotund hurlers of the recent past: Double Chin Lieber, Pot Belly Padilla, Lazy Ice-cream guzzling Lidle, Gigantic Alfonseca... It isn't exactly a who's who of Men's Fitness Covers. There needs to be a culture of fitness on the pitching staff which Dubee has never sponsored. He may be frustrated by Myers... so DO something about it. Knock him down in the rotation. Piss him off. It's called COACHING. It actually works.
Posted 03:25 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
Gagne is the most eggregious example of steroid abuse, anybody see Billy Wagner hit 100 mph lately? Anyone remember Darren Dreifort? Look no further than Mike Hampton, he of the slightly less aquare headed pitchers these days. How many starts/years has he missed since getting off the juice? I could go on and on.....yes I agree Myers has a nice old beer belly, and the steroids are pure speculation, but it's clear he just never will be a pitcher, just a thrower. You can't legislate intelligence, no matter how much Dubee and the Phillies brass might try.
Posted 03:17 PM, 04/28/2008
PJM20
Look at people like Giambi and Clemens, they were muscular and fit. Look at Brett Myers, all I see is a beer belly and a confused right arm. Steroids are not the problem, lack of coaching and work ethic is.
Posted 03:08 PM, 04/28/2008
Bryan
ugh, why do I now have to click 'view all comments' after I've already clicked the posting. This format be-loooows.
Posted 03:03 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
BTW, why are so many people surprised that pitchers are just as big offenders with HGH and steroids as the HR hitters are? Pitchers were fighting fire with fire. Not just little guys like Paul Byrd but the big boys like Clemens too, and every mediocre pitcher in between, except for possibly our own Jamie Moyer who shows no effects of this stuff except for the fact that he takes the ball every 5th day at the age of 45 when most guys couldn't play with their kids every 5th day. Jamie seems to be incredibly fit, a location pithcer and doesn't throw hard enough to break a paper bag...that's how he does it. If he tried to throw only 4-5 mph more, his arm probably would've fallen off by now, and he would have been faced with that difficult decision of "do I do it or not" to prolong my career?
Posted 02:57 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
We'll see if my speculation is purely that or something else as the next month unfolds. If Brett is made to long toss by Dubee and shoulder pain starts, then we need to look at the injury he suffered last year and possibly now a worsening of the condition, like a labral tear or some other pathology that is slowly evolving over time. A ppitchers arm is forever evolvinhg over their career. If he gets a clean bill of health, well then, we all have our doubts and suspicions, don't we?
Posted 02:19 PM, 04/28/2008
freebistat
I dont buy the steroids argument. There is no real evidence of it. I am more concered about the arm injury that he sustained last August. Between the injury and starting again for the first time in almost a year, I think there are plenty of more obvious reasons for his issues. If he cant top 90 as the weather starts to get warmer, I'd really start to worry that it is all over.
Posted 01:45 PM, 04/28/2008
PJM20
If Brett Myers was using steriods then where was the muscle? For the last 3 to 4 years the only think he looks to be a customer for is booze and food, not drugs. Brett's problem is not that he is no longer using steriods , his problem is he can't control his wieght and is lazy in the off season.
Posted 01:43 PM, 04/28/2008
JeffA
The drug speculation might be going a bit too far. We don't know it's drugs, and so this is more an indictment of MLB. Allowing abuse for years has created a situation where a player who loses velocity or sees their power numbers go down get instantly labeled as a former juicer. Sad, sad, sad. Just skip a Myers start or drop him to 4th starter status. That should get his attention.
Posted 01:39 PM, 04/28/2008
Gary Varsho
I'm not defending his actions, I am saying that the link to steroids is, at this point, 100% speculation by guys on a blog, and that his past off the field behavior could be that he has anger issues. You know, there are people who hit their wives who aren't on something.
Posted 01:28 PM, 04/28/2008
Truth
Gary, a drop in velocity, tremendous weight(muscle fat we don't know)gain beating his wife in public kicking her and pulling her hair and slapping her in front of teammates. Is probably more than alcohol "rage". Generally those cowards beat there wives behind closd doors. You must not defend the obvious. That makes you an accomplice like the Phillies...
Posted 01:16 PM, 04/28/2008
Gary Varsho
The problem is that any allegation about steroid abuse is, at this point, 100% speculation by guys on a blog, since it has never been reported in any manner about Myers by any source. And you would think that if there was a chance that his incident stemmed from "roid rage", that it may have been reported as such (or at least speculated about), instead I think most thought it was more likely related to alcohol. And its possible he just has a really bad temper and has issues dealing with his emotions, totally unrelated to substance abuse at all.
Posted 01:05 PM, 04/28/2008
John in LA
Talking about longevity, friend. You're pointing out HOF exceptions. Like Tony Gwynn and Kirby Puckett. Exceptions, get it, not the norm. I'm sure Zo is thrilled with your inspiration...
Posted 01:03 PM, 04/28/2008
Truth
Gary, not all teams in baseball have players beating their wives up and down the street. It's a tell, tell sign of 'roids and overall out of control behavior that generally is associated with drug abuse(in this case steroid abuse.) We all remember that year 2/3 yrs ago when Myers went from 195-230 in one off season. I can't believe I didn't connect the dots.
Posted 12:52 PM, 04/28/2008
Truth
Cupcake in LA- John Kruk was fat-Clemens is fat, Ruth was fat etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Your a joke. I congratulate Zo' for picking up on my thoughts from yesterdays post. I have commented on Myers frailness for sometime-I must admit I didn't connect it to 'roids. Bottom line he's a loser, just like you cupcake.
Posted 12:51 PM, 04/28/2008
Gary Varsho
Truth - the thought that this is possibly (not proven) related to performance enhancing drugs is entirely plausible. However, to pretend like the Phillies organization would be at fault for that, when every single team in MLB has had players that took performace enhancing drugs, is ridiculous.
Posted 12:42 PM, 04/28/2008
John in LA
Let's see: Myers doesn't listen to Dubee, Howard won't listen to Milt Thompson. There's your leadership void. Also doesn't help that both guys are fat.
Posted 12:39 PM, 04/28/2008
Bryan
Wow, seems like Dubee was really throwing Myers under the bus in that quote. Not saying he's wrong, but usually you get the 'vague company man' answer from the coaching staff.
Posted 12:32 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
BTW, there are pitchers and there are throwers. Myers is a thrower, that's why closing suits him so well, he can just sit back and fire away for 1 inning. He can't "pitch" , he doesn't have the mental makeup for it. He as much stated this a few starts into the season when interviewed about his struggles and stating he was done with setting hitters up, he was just going to be aggressive and start throwing. You can't make a horse drink, you know?
Posted 12:27 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
Scouts all over baseball snickered to themselves when steroid testing went into effect a few years ago and all of a sudden pitcher's velocity dropped by 5 mph on average. Take that out a couple of years and now we see drops of 10 moh showing up regularly. How would you feel if you were the SF Giants and you were on the line for Zito and another $100 million? Going to be interesting to see if Santana is tainted in any way and worth his money. There were whispers last year that he may be dropping off, which is scout speak for yeah, we have our suspicions.
Posted 12:22 PM, 04/28/2008
John in LA
Nice to see Truth, as usual, waiting for all the facts to come in. Don't you have the prom to get ready for, dude? And are these rants already written down somewhere and you just cut-and-paste them?
Posted 12:20 PM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
Something fishy is going on......
Posted 12:07 PM, 04/28/2008
terryharmon
Now Myers has to learn to pitch. Sorry bud... can't blow em away with your 93 mph heater. Now you have to hit spots and change speeds. he ever hear of future hall of famer named maddux... oh... and he might pay attention next time moyer pitches. get over yourself myers and start pitching... maybe someone should send mr. miaggi from the karate kid over to him... wax on, wax off for crissakes!
Posted 12:07 PM, 04/28/2008
Truth
Mark1npt-You really took the words out of mouth. It's really ashame that the Phillies tolerate such obvious abuse of drugs that lead to anger mgmt issues. Myers is not only effecting his domestic life but his drug use has no come home to roost and is effecting this team. Myers should be traded while he has some value. He is only getting pd $8,000,000US and possibly some team could be duped into thinking he could be a great closer.(Like P.G. was duped with Garcia). Once again the Phillies have many more problems than Howard, I would say having one sure fire starter is the way more significant. Where are YOU the bloggers today?
Posted 11:48 AM, 04/28/2008
John in LA
Good point, though not sure it's entirely true. Still. Gagne is the posterboy (Clemens was great before) of a guy who threw low 90s as a starter, totally average, then suddenly was up to 98 and saving 80 some in a row, winning the Cy Young. And now he's ordinary - or worse - again. The I think about Mark's point, though...
Posted 11:12 AM, 04/28/2008
Mark1npt
Players who stop taking steroids and HGH often retain their benefits for a year or more. All around baseball last year and this year we are seeing serious drops in velocity in pitchers, ala Zito in SF who can't break 84mph on the radar gun. Doesn't anybody have a clue that this is the reason? Doesn't anybody put 2 and 2 together when it comes to domestic abuse and steroids? Doesn't anybody want to admit it?
About Andy Martino
Andy Martino is in his first season on the Phillies beat. A former New York City public school teacher and graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, he previously wrote for the New York Daily News, where he covered baseball and worked with the award-winning investigative sports "I-team."
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