What's wrong with Cliff Lee? Don't ask the Phillies.
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What's wrong with Cliff Lee? Don't ask the Phillies.
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
(J Pat Carter/AP)
MIAMI — Answers for how a $120 million pitcher has a 7.30 ERA in his last four starts are apparently non-existent or secrets if you ask the Phillies.
"I really don't have an explanation," Cliff Lee said.
"I don't know," Charlie Manuel said. "It's hard to explain."
"I have things," Rich Dubee said, "but I'm not discussing them in the paper."
As the Phillies drift into irrelevancy, the pitching staff is to blame. Lee is the poster child. He remains winless in 2012 and will lug a 4.13 ERA into July, the highest he's had this late in a season since 2007.
The manager says Lee's stuff is still "good" and believes he is healthy. The pitcher says his latest outing was "a strange game." The pitching coach says nothing at all.
"It's stuff we'll talk amongst ourselves about," Dubee said. "I'm not discussing it. That's all. It's stuff we don't want out there."
So there is a flaw he discovered?
"Not necessarily," Dubee said.
That leaves two possibilities: Lee's problems are mental. Or he has simply been hittable.
The lefthander was willing to admit he should have finished at least five innings Friday. It was his shortest outing since July 25, 2011.
"It was just weird," Lee said. "It seemed like everything they hit went between third and short. They just got a lot of hits. It was one of those nights, I can’t really explain it."
Lee, apparently, had forgotten about the four doubles mashed by Miami, none of which were hit between third and short. Opponents are hitting .337 off him in his last four outings. He is permitting 9.0 hits per nine innings after a stingy 7.6 rate in 2011.
The opposition is hitting .333 on balls in play, which is sixth highest in baseball. The league average for qualified pitchers is .287. That suggests Lee has been unlucky in 2012, but it's not the sole reason for his failures.
Lee was asked if this season feels like a bad dream.
"For the whole team it kind of has been," Lee said. "We've been in last place from the start till now, so I don't think anyone is really happy with how things have gone as group."
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Comments (32)
I blame Lee of course but it's also the job of the coaches to do what they can to help Lee. That's what they are there for.— AvoidSundanceVacations- It sounds like Lee has "checked out." His pitching and fielding indicate a player who is going through the motions while collecting a gigantic paycheck. He owes his teammates and fans 100 percent.— Bill from Delaware
- "Strugles"? Gotta spell check those titles. Especially on your main page.— FKD215
Whats wrong with cliff lee ? More like whats wrong with the pathetic hitters they trot out there for his "run support". He is probably just pissed off. and when you are pissed off you are not "in the zone". And when you are not in the zone, you go 0-12. Don't pitch for the 2012 Phillies.- correction: you go 0-12 on the 2012 phillies.
- Cliff needs a change of scene, and probably welcome a trade at this point. His pal CC and Andy Pettite are both down with injuries, so how about CL to the Yankees for prospects? Free up money for Hamels and get some solid young Yankee players in return. There are going to be big changes around here anyway; if not by the All Star break, then certainly by the trading deadline, and it would give a fresh start to this incredible (?) season.— guitarman
- Completely agree! As a matter of fact, every player on this roster should be considered tradeable. I'd probably keep Roy--he's mentally tougher than the rest of the pitchers. Lee--I like your idea. He won't get his mojo back until he's out of here. — filzfan
- I think Lee has been the victim of something several Phils have fallen into the trap of. Getting accustomed to losing and being OK with it. Pence, Victorino,Blanton, Kendrick( OK, yeah, he was never good) seem to have fallen into the same trap. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves! Due to mediocre teams like the Mets, Bucs, Braves etc., you guys are somehow only 6 1/2 games from a playoff spot, you deserve to be 15 games out! If you win 50 of your last 81, you might make it! About 60 games are left between the Phils and either.... a) teams directly ahead of them in the WC chase or b) teams with lesser records than the Phils. After next week, you'll have the talent, let's see if you have the guts.— drbob1
- I think it started out as a lack of run support, then there was the injury. When he came back he pitched well but still didn't win. At that point, I think it started getting to be a mental thing. Now he's trying too hard. All he needs is to get one win under his belt and he'll be fine. Just relax and do your thing, Cliff. The law of averages will eventually turn to your favor.— SteveS11
- This is exactly right. You got it in a nutshell. — franb213
- he start to decline last year in the playoff game against the cards when the phils were up 6-0 and lee blew the game and ever since he s going downhill,,— hardball
- 2 things are wrong with Cliff Lee Charlie Manuel and Rich Dubbe Manuel because he makes so many managerial mistakes that pitchers on the Phils get demoralized and Dubbe can not see a mechnical problem in a pitchers delivery— gates2012
- Last Sunday vs TB Cole Hamels and the Phils were winning 2-0. He was throwing a shutout but basically called it a day after 7 IP and 111 pitches. Bullpen came in and it was 3-2 TB before an out was recorded in the 8th... Cliff Lee may be scuffling right now but he would never ever leave that game in the 7th inning and I want guys like that on my roster.— argonne
- There is no doubt Cliff Lee is having "let down" issues. This is a team he left money on the table for and this year has turned into a life like nightmare. I really beleive he is trying to make EVERY pitch perfect, knowing if he doesn't throw a complete game shut out, the team has no chance to win. And, btw, he isn't wrong. He needs to snap out of it and just keep the team in games. Instead, he is giving up games. The year is over and its time to start building for 2013. Sorry to say, but the truth does hurt. Loosing again today with Hamels on the hill...8 games under .500. Wow...seems like 2002.— drhoffman
- The Phillies are out of it. Lee is second-guessing his decision to come to the Phillies.
Mystery solved.— PhightinPhil - "As the Phillies drift into irrelevancy"
. . . I kinda like that phraseology.
GO NATS!— smokinmike 
He's had bad stretches in each of the last 3 years ... and he has come out of them and pitched great. Cliff Lee is the least of our concerns. IMO.— zubzub- Lee is not the only problem. All starters give up to many HR's and Lee is the only one that holds runners from running at will i.e. Hamels where runners get huge jumps from lst and 2nd bases. The Phils need a complete change in the Front office and coaching staff. This will happen only when Alexander wakes up.— tulsaphil
- I wonder if the fact that Cliff Lee has not won a game for the Phillies since last year has anything to do with him entering into a sponsorship agreement with the Mascaro Trash Hauling Company?— bignerd
- If we are not sellers at the deadline, we are fools. Lee should be moved to a team he might care about winning for. Then use the money if possible to sign Hamels - though that's a long shot.— bmcw
- it's because he's overthinking it. Without run support, he feels like he has to be perfect to make up for a weak offense. In the past, he knew that 1 mistake wasn't the end of the world, this year even one run could be the death knell.— Pelti
- Dubee won't talk about what he knows in public for fear it will expose his weaknesses as a pitching coach and get himself fired.— sonnybuoy01
- Lee's spirit is broken, either because of the lack of run support or personal problems, like *perhaps* his son is ill again. You can see it in his eyes -- the fire's gone. If it were an injury, we'd know about it. He also knows he'll never get a WS ring playing for the Phils. Should he ask for a trade to a contender, who would take him with his current stats at his current pay?— Xyzzyx
- I don't think there's anything wrong with Cliff. Not physically. Maybe he has something personal going on. More likely, the win/loss thing has gotten into his head. You really have to look at his games and put the win/loss aspect aside to get the full picture. He pitched very well early on and was still pitching well overall (bad game or two like any pitcher) until late May. Then he started to head downhill. It's really his last 3-4 games where he's truly pitched bad. If you've followed his career, a 3-5 game bad stretch would not be unusual. It's just magnified because he has no wins. He's also obviously affected by the total collapse of every aspect of the team. Early on when he was pitching well he either didn't get the run support needed or the bullpen blew his lead.— s
- Its simple.. Cliff Lee is the type of pitcher that excels on good teams and when he's on a bad one, he loses focus and passion. If Lee was suddenly trade deadline bait or the Phillies were winning, you'd see him pitching like an Ace. But right now he's simply dejected and money aside, doesn't have the inner-drive to succeed on a last place team— Ashburn072
- 2008 - .500 Cleveland team, he won a Cy Young
2010 - Seattle won 61 games, 8-3 2.34 ERA
????— zubzub 
I considered Friday's game to be the big test. If they lost that game with a legit starter, then the season was over. Cliff Lee did not give our team a chance to win this game, but Saturday Cole Hamels did. I agree that players like Victorino have "checked out" & I think it's time to bench him for awhile. The manager has to send a message. Or, maybe it's time for Charlie to go. It's not his fault but there needs to be changes, a LOT of changes.- Can't believe all these Cliff Lee apologists. Blaming Dubee? Cholly? Forget it. Cliff Lee is to blame. He is, was and always will be overrated. Blew the series against the Cards last fall and now this million-dollar bust can't find himself. Poor Cliff. Leave town, k.— uncle joe
- Looks to me like he's mailing it in. Problem's not in his arm but in his head.— drbob456
- There's clearly a monkey on Cliff's back and I think once he gets that first win he will start to pitch a lot better. I also think he may not be over blowing that four run lead in Game 2 last year. He hasn't won a game since.— schmolik
- mental...all goes back to game 2 of the NLDS...— tralala
- Wow Cliff, hated to see you leave the Rangers but understand why they couldn't pay you the dollars you were looking for. Really understand it now. Seems like one side of that equation has a chance to play for the series once again this year, maybe not such a big chance for Mr. Lee. Oh well, maybe with your 120m you can buy a really nice seat. Sorry Philly, you guys are always a first class team and deserve better.— gorangers
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
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