What to do about Happ?
This is what Charlie Manuel said about the possibility of finding a start for J.A. Happ: “We’ll consider doing anything we have to do…I don’t mean we’re going to put Happ in the rotation just yet.” Given the rotation’s atrocious numbers and Happ’s strong spring training and bullpen work, the young man seems like he could help out as a starter. But as you all know, that’s tricky. How do you get him in there? Moyer has a two-year contract and wouldn’t be an ideal reliever, Myers has re-committed to starting, Park earned himself another few turns…. I’m leaving for Philly in two minutes and won’t be covering the game tomorrow, but I’ll leave you with a question: What do you think the team should do about Happ? Don’t just say “start him;” come up with a plan for how, if that’s what you think should happen.
What to do about Happ?
Andy Martino
This is what Charlie Manuel said about the possibility of finding a start for J.A. Happ: “We’ll consider doing anything we have to do…I don’t mean we’re going to put Happ in the rotation just yet.”
Given the rotation’s atrocious numbers and Happ’s strong spring training and bullpen work, the young man seems like he could help out as a starter. But as you all know, that’s tricky. How do you get him in there? Moyer has a two-year contract and wouldn’t be an ideal reliever, Myers has re-committed to starting, Park earned himself another few turns….
I’m leaving for Philly in two minutes and won’t be covering the game tomorrow, but I’ll leave you with a question: What do you think the team should do about Happ? Don’t just say “start him;” come up with a plan for how, if that’s what you think should happen.
Comments (53)
I would use a 6 man rotation until some of these guys prove they can still pitch. Hamels every 5 days, everyone else slotted in around him. Park and Myers are candidates to pitch themselves out of the rotation and into the bullpen.— magicrat99- I agree. It's time to add some competition to the rotation. Put Happ in the rotation and allow the starters that are pitching well to pitch every 5 games. The rest get their starts when they get them until the picture is clear on who the odd man out is.— drog
- I would give Happ a few starts in the place of Moyer. If Happ does better, jettison Moyer like they jettisoned Eaton and Jenkins. I think the Phillies should be happy with all the wins they got from Moyer and they should move on before it gets too ugly. He's old, physically diminished and if the umpires don't cooperate, he can't get major leaguers out.— jtj06
Using the 6 man rotation might thin the bullpen out. They should use Myers for a few more starts, (unless he is suddenly unhittable), then put him in the bullpen where he really wants to be anyway. He's made the transition before and I think he'll hit free agency wanting to sign as a closer...just not the Phillies' closer. As far as Moyer, that's a tough one. If they let him go, wouldn't they still have to pay on his contract for the next two years.- If either Park or Blanton throw a cluner next time out, swap them with JA. Myers looked hurt his last time out, an injury would make the decision for you. You have to have respect for this kid Happ. He gets beat out in ST, comes into the season as the long man, and doesn't miss a beat. Hopefully he can "save" this rotation.— Souf Phil
- a six man rotation?...is that serious? these starters are already panzies, pitching in a 5-man rotation. it should be 4 tops, but these agents and the union demand starters don't kill their future earning potential. but the fact is, these guys can hurl way more often than once every 6th day, 5th day, even 4th day. Happ shoulda been pitching since the get-go, but arbitration issues keep him benched...if i understand correctly. Just relax with the whole pitching thing guys... the more you make it an issue (reality), the more you let Vegas dictate this team's future. by saying the Mets are choke artists, you make it that way. lets use the power of positive thinking to better use....that's all i'm sayin.— rich_gelman
- I like the 6 man rotation idea. You can even spot pitch Happ out of the bullpen as a situational lefty in lieu of bullpen sessions on his 4th day.— MattKnife
- This isn't a fantasy baseball team. We're a contending team that's in first place in our division. You start moving players around and making panicky moves then the ramifications could be pretty severe. If the manager doesn't show confidence in the players, they won't play confidently. Happ's only had a few starts in his career. He could get lit up after the league has had a look or two at him (like what happened with Kendrick) and now you've destroyed the confidence of whatever starter you benched too. Frankly, Happ's most valuable role right now may be in long-relief because we've got 4 starters right now who it's pretty much a toss-up every night if they can make it through 5 innings and then you've got Hamels coming back from injury. Having a guy who can come in and throw 2-4 innings out of the pen regularly might be the most useful thing right now for us.— JimG
- thanks for the shout out (gelman), but I'm not the one making it an issue, I am just making a comment on the article. fact is, the pitching is an issue... and that's according to Manuel. I'm all for the glass is half full thing but the Phils SP pitching has been bad w/ the exception of a couple starts. It's a forgone conclusion that Happ is gonna be SP sometime this year. All I'm sayin' is give Myers a few more starts, see if he can become a number 2 pitcher again, and if not, send him to the bullpen which he likes better anyway.
- Here are my thoughts on the Phils' rotation.... I think it was a big mistake to give Moyer a 2yr deal. Now this opinion isnt based on what happened tonight. It has to do with his abysmal spring training and his subpar regular season so far. Dont get me wrong he's actually been the most reliable pitcher on our team so far but that's not saying much because he hasn't done very well either. He is 46yrs old. I dont care how good he was last year he's still 46yrs old. His contracts should be year to year. He's not like most pitchers who are going to gradually get worse as they get older. He's already older so eventually he's just gonna suddenly hit a wall. I still stick by my opinion that they should've let him go and signed Derek Lowe. As far as Brett Myers goes I think if Myers doesn't get himself into a consistent rhythm by the all star break then they need to seriously consider trading him or perhaps move him to the bullpen or something but then again i dont know if putting him in the bullpen is smart because if you're gonna do that then you need to keep him there. You can't keep bouncing him back and forth between starter and bullpen and he needs to be ok with being in the bullpen as someone other than the 9th inning man. I dont think he's ever gonna be the pitcher we thought. I think he is what he is. Some days he's dominate and looks unhittable, other games he looks like adam eaton out there. Chan Ho Park's rotation status should still be on a game by game basis. Im not sold on Park. 1 good game doesn't make up for how horrible he's been. He needs to put a few games like that together in a row then maybe that would warrant him a place in the rotation. i saw give him 2 or 3 more starts and if he cant stay consistent then its time to give Happ the chance he deserves. Im not worried about Hamels. He'll be fine. His 2 injuries were freak injuries. He's gonna be ok. Blanton Need more time. i think he's worth keeping for now.— philliekev04
- Here are my thoughts on the Phils' rotation.... I think it was a big mistake to give Moyer a 2yr deal. Now this opinion isnt based on what happened tonight. It has to do with his abysmal spring training and his subpar regular season so far. Dont get me wrong he's actually been the most reliable pitcher on our team so far but that's not saying much because he hasn't done very well either. He is 46yrs old. I dont care how good he was last year he's still 46yrs old. His contracts should be year to year. He's not like most pitchers who are going to gradually get worse as they get older. He's already older so eventually he's just gonna suddenly hit a wall. I still stick by my opinion that they should've let him go and signed Derek Lowe. As far as Brett Myers goes I think if Myers doesn't get himself into a consistent rhythm by the all star break then they need to seriously consider trading him or perhaps move him to the bullpen or something but then again i dont know if putting him in the bullpen is smart because if you're gonna do that then you need to keep him there. You can't keep bouncing him back and forth between starter and bullpen and he needs to be ok with being in the bullpen as someone other than the 9th inning man. I dont think he's ever gonna be the pitcher we thought. I think he is what he is. Some days he's dominate and looks unhittable, other games he looks like adam eaton out there. Chan Ho Park's rotation status should still be on a game by game basis. Im not sold on Park. 1 good game doesn't make up for how horrible he's been. He needs to put a few games like that together in a row then maybe that would warrant him a place in the rotation. i saw give him 2 or 3 more starts and if he cant stay consistent then its time to give Happ the chance he deserves. Im not worried about Hamels. He'll be fine. His 2 injuries were freak injuries. He's gonna be ok. Blanton Need more time. i think he's worth keeping for now.— philliekev04
- As far as a 6man rotation goes... while its pretty rare and most likely not a good idea and wouldnt work... It has been done before. The yankees used a 6man rotation back in the early 2000s or late 1990s during their world series runs. Of course they had so many good pitchers which is why they had a 6 man rotation. They had to make room for them all. We shouldn't be looking to add to our rotation. As bad as they are?? No we should be subtracting. This can't go on till the All Star break. If it does then major movement has to take place within the rotation.— philliekev04
- As far as a 6man rotation goes... while its pretty rare and most likely not a good idea and wouldnt work... It has been done before. The yankees used a 6man rotation back in the early 2000s or late 1990s during their world series runs. Of course they had so many good pitchers which is why they had a 6 man rotation. They had to make room for them all. We shouldn't be looking to add to our rotation. As bad as they are?? No we should be subtracting. This can't go on till the All Star break. If it does then major movement has to take place within the rotation.— philliekev04
- Including Happ in the rotation is essential. If Park has really regained his stride then I suggest moving Moyer to a coaching position in the bullpen.— ridingrav
Comment removed.- Comment removed.
let him take Moyer's starts except when we play the Marlins or Nationals.— potus
The only good solution is to swap Happ for Chan Ho if and only ifChan doesnt continue to pitch like he did against Santana. Meyers to the bullpen is not an option. He doesnt want to be a releiver, he wants to be the closer. No way do you replace Lidge as the closer. The rest of the deck plays out by either stepping it up or going down with the ship. These are the pieces your going to work with this season. Lets hope they right the ship.- We have a day night double header against the Nationals next weekend. If Happ is to get a start this should be where it is. That way we can keep all our rotation on normal rest. To do this we would need to beef up the bullpen, so we send Cairo down (or release him) and bring up Majewski to have an extra body in the bullpen. Hopefully that series vs the nationals won't have us going deep into our bullpen anyway. But if we do that, we give Happ the one start, see how it goes, and we don't completely throw off everything else in the rotation. We also see what Majewski can do with the big club, and we rid ourselves of dead weight in Cairo.— scotsedley
- I say we try and deal Brett Myers for another young pitching prospect since hes at the end of his contract this year and we need some good young pitching to develop beyond Carrasco and Kendrick. That way we can slide Happ into the rotation where he belongs. Kendrick appears to be improving at triple A based on recent reports so he could also be an option if Park would cant be consistent.— MTust24
- I'm not quite ready to push the panic button. I think Happ's role to date as a long relief pitcher has been a godsend especially since our pitchers can't seem to get passed the 5th or 6th. I'd give each pitcher another round or so before making a decision.— KarenA
- The Phillies have a double-header against Washington a week from Saturday. I would let Happ start one of those games. If he's successful, he could take over a start from either Meyers or Moyer, if they continue to struggle. Myers may have to accept that's he's headed back to the bullpen for a while. The Phillies also have a quality pitcher in Rodrigo Lopez at triple A. I wouldn't want to recall Kendrick just yet.— JayW
- Did anyone not see the playoffs last year? Moyer was getting rocked. Why they committed 2 years to this guy and did not sign Derek Lowe is beyond me. Lowe would have been perfect in our ball park.— Theo1980
- Start Moyer against Marlins only.— Theo1980
- I must confess that I don't see how a 6-man rotation helps. We are hard pressed to find 4 consistent, quality starters in our current rotation and people want a 6-man? My rotation would look like this: Hamels Myers Blanton Park Happ + move Moyer to Happ's mop-up duty spot in the 'pen; first bump to rotation in the event of an injury— spadty
- The Moyer signing was a mistake, especially for two years. Lowe, at 36 years old, was asking for a long-term contract at a high price (he got a 4 year 60 million contract from the Braves, I believe). But there were other options. I said it before; Happ is going to be in the rotation replacing Moyer when Romero comes back. I agree with Karen, Happ is doing a nice job in long relief. All the starters are struggling. We need him in the pen now. No time to panic yet.— EL Zorro
- Boo hoo - relax about Moyer - over the course of the season, he's going to have some bad games. He will also give you a lot of consistent starts. What to do with Happ? Nothing yet. Unless they are ready to make a drastic change (trade), leave it the way it is.— Gary Varsho
- I think Park was the bigger mistake. Yes, he gave us one good start - but so did Eaton every once and a while. Its Parks place in the rotation that is affecting Happ. Also, if Hamels gets on track, that will likely help the overall rotation. Hamels should have pitched last night, time for him to stop dodging the Mets.— Gary Varsho
- Put Chan Ho Park in a duffle bag and throw him in the pile of Kruk spent busch light cans and butts.— Burrell
- D. Lowe did not want to pitch in Philly. Since CBP is hitter friendly, Dubee and Nichols should be teaching their pitcher how to throw a Lowe-like sinker. It would make our future staff much more efficient going forward, home and away.— eflo10
- Why move Myers to the pen? He has the best ERA (5.35) of the starters and is the only one who constantly pitches into the sixth inning (6.1 innings). Blanton is next at 5.4 innings per start Park is third at 5.2. He pitched one inning in relief. Although Myers' ERA is not a very good one, the second best –Park at 6.67- is allowing a little over a run more than him.— EL Zorro
- Varsho, I disagree. Park was signed to a one-year contract at like 7 millions less than Moyer, if I am correct. He is younger than Moyer, has better stuff and can give you options Moyer can: He can be a starter and reliever. He was the best Phillies pitcher in Spring Training, but then had to sit for almost two weeks to get his first start of the season. Now he is struggling to get his rhythm back. The same thing happened to Rollins. He was the best hitter for the Team USA in the Classic and the only one to make the All Classic Team. Then had to travel to Spring Training, then Charlie sat him for a few games, giving Brunlett, and the other players fighting for a bench spot a few starts here and there (I don't know why when they had plenty of playing time when Rollins was absent), and now he is struggling mightily.— EL Zorro
- an injury will take care of the problem, bank on it— Captain Splendor
- You go with the rotation you have right now for now. Problem is you can not remove Moyer on one bad start. He won 3 games and got us the win last time he pitched against the Mets. Park can obviously not be removed after his last start. And Myers has been battling and has been one of the most consistent in the rotation. Happ waits for the first starter that you give up on and remove. Moyer was over throwing his change, it is usually more like 70, 75 is hard and that is why it stayed up. I really think Moyer will be fine. Park if he pounds the zone will be fine and Myers has pitched pretty good. He may be the best to use in the pen but if Moyer or Park prove to be ineffective how do you take Myers out who has won and given us a chance to win every game he has pitched in???— mmac
- How do some of you remove Myers when the main problem recently is Park and Moyer???— mmac
- EZ - history is the best indicator of future performance - and history tells us Moyer will give you a solid year and Park is better suited for the pen. And by history, I don't mean spring training, but the past 5 years.— Gary Varsho
- History also tells you that Moyer is not effective when pitching to veteran ball clubs and when the umpires are not very generous, like last night and in the playoffs last year. History also tells you that not many 46 years old have success in baseball. He has three wins this year, but he has the best-run support in the league. I don't know if we can count on the team to score 8 or more runs in each of his next starts. That is an aberration.— EL Zorro
- Moyer was 16-7 last year with a 3.71 ERA. And he was 45. Until he proves otherwise (more than 6 games thus far), I give him the benefit of the doubt. If at the end of this year his ERA is over 5 and he loses more than he wins, then it may be time for him to go, but until then, lets wait and see.— Gary Varsho
- And before last year incredible second half when Moyer went 8-1, history tells you that he is not a very good second half picher. Looking at your 5-year history barometer since 2004 to 2007 (again excluding last year of course) he was 19-22 with an ERA over 5.00. So if we are to judge by his second half history performance, he has to pitch lights out to have a decent year. That’s a lot to ask.— EL Zorro
- you're all forgetting that the rotation doesnt need to be unhittable, the phils can consistently put up 3, 4 or 5 runs its when their starters are getting tagged for 6 runs through 3 innings that gets things difficult. you need to leave it as it is for now, later in the season you can explore options for JA or Kendrick, who is getting his act together in triple-a. whats important is the starters at least keeping the bleeding manageable— jdol06
- Overreacting as always. This is the same rotaion for the most part that won you a World Series last year. I think you keep an eye on Moyer b/c he is a thousand and hasn't beat a good team in forever. But other than that you let it ride b/c believe it or not they are in first place.— Captain
- Comment removed.
- Once Romero gets back, you can bet Happ will be in the rotation.— mjb
- I don't think Romero coming back would necessarily bring Happ to the rotation. Happ is a long innings reliever and Romero was the "bridge to Lidge".— KarenA
It's crazy to be talking about making major moves in this rotation at this point. Yes, Moyer is a question mark, simply because we're getting into uncharted territory with him. But he has earned the opportunity to keep starting. Hamels is obviously a non-issue. Meyers and Blanton, you have to stick with them and hope they can up their game. If they do not, you deal with it down the road. The only move that can be seriously discussed at this point is Happ for Park. And the status of that situation is on hold due to Park's strong outing the other night. He bought himself at least one more start, probably more, unless he blows up next outing. The reality is that Happ is filling a very valuable role right now, so there's no rush to change things unless Park collapses. That will force the hand and Charlie will swap them. If Park holds his own, then Happ stays in the pen until JC is back. Oh, and 6 man rotation? Big mistake. Pitchers crave routine, and changing up starts on the fly shoots that all to h@ll.— bobby- I think they need to take a more radical path in order to light a fire under what has been a collectively under-achieving starting group. I'd yank Moyer for sure [I disagree that he couldn't be a decent situational reliever], and possibly Park as well, notwithstanding his last start, and insert Happ and one other young guy. That could be Carrasco, though he's struggling right now at AAA, or maybe even Kendrick, who seems to have found himself [2-0, 2.61 in 6 starts] at LV. The whole thing just needs a shake-up.— jmk1512
- Wow. Can you say "knee jerk"?— bobby
- Pitch underhanded.— BudSelig_isthenext_MrBurns
You can do a six-man rotation in the AL because of the DH. If Happ wasn't available last night because he's in the rotation, who's the long relief? Condrey? Seven man pullpens are really a necessity. La Russa uses eight with a five man rotation. As a consequence, was out of bench moves by the eighth inning the other night.— RAS- Park has been OK for the #5 starter so far. Five starts, pitched well in three of them and the Phillies won three of them. First one was bad, second one he got burned by a bunt single and shaky defensive play in one inning, but only gave up 1 HR the other 4. Pitched a good 7 innings in a win against Florida and pitched a gem against the Mets. Also Park has by far the lowest BAA of all of the Phillies starters. Although that's not saying much .284 vs. > .330 for Hamels, Blanton, and Moyer. I agree Happ should get some starts, but not at the expense of the guy who has been pitching the best- especially when it isn't clear that Moyer or Myers can even cut it as full season MLB starters.— jtj06
- I agree with Varsho, Moyer has a much longer leash then the rest..he is an exception for his age, now if it is June 15 and the same results then its time to push the panic button. Park has some potential but a shorter leash bc of Happ waiting. Myers? Well even when his stuff was good the guy was wildly inconsistent..even 2nd half last year he was lights out until his last 3 starts (he pitched like 1st half Brett in those) so i dont know. You cant trade him bc he has no value b4 free agency. So ride it out and hope he keeps you in games.— philsfan in the atx
- Happ will be in the rotation soon. Moyer, Park & Myers are all candidates for losing their spot. I'm betting one of them ends up on the d/l in the very near future.— thorshuffle
- Myers should be the one to go. Plain and simple.— FloridaBrian
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