What about Hamels' fourth pitch?
CLEARWATER, Fla. -- Much of the off-season talk about Cole Hamels centered around adding a new pitch. Both Charlie Manuel and Rich Dubee spoke near the end of last season about what good it would do Hamels to add another breaking ball along with his curveball and how he would likely come to spring with a new pitch.
What about Hamels' fourth pitch?
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
CLEARWATER, Fla. -- Much of the off-season talk about Cole Hamels centered around adding a new pitch. Both Charlie Manuel and Rich Dubee spoke near the end of last season about what good it would do Hamels to add another breaking ball along with his curveball and how he would likely come to spring with a new pitch.
Since Hamels arrived here, the coaching staff has eased away that philosophy. So what changed?
"Nothing changed," Dubee said recently. "The third pitch is the first step. Well, where's his third pitch? We have to see where he is with his curveball. If we don't think he's going to be consistent enough, then we might have to add a fourth. The biggest part is that he's much better prepared now, mentally and physically.
"It's hard to work on two at once. Let's try to establish some consistency with the curveball first. He has shown that the curveball is a very workable pitch when he commands it and throws it enough. Let's do that first."
Dubee's point is smart. If the Phillies have faith in Hamels' curveball -- and it is apparent that's the case -- then they want the focus on that pitch alone.
But this wasn't the case late last season. The following are excerpts from an Oct. 31 Inquirer story:
A starting pitcher can win with two pitches - look at what A.J. Burnett did with a fastball and curveball in Game 2 - but he can't do it consistently. In an era when teams play each other within their division up to 18 times, a reality that can lead to familiarity, it is imperative that a starter have a deep arsenal of pitches to keep hitters off balance.
This is why Hamels will work on adding another breaking ball, either a slider or a cutter, to his pitch mix during spring training.
"Putting another pitch in the back of the hitter's mind can only help me," Hamels said yesterday.
Hamels does not intend to junk his curveball. Ideally, he'd improve that pitch and gain more confidence throwing it.
(snip)
Dubee has talked to Hamels about adding a slider or cutter to his repertoire. In fact, Hamels said, he experimented with a slider in August. He said he threw one of them against Pittsburgh on Aug. 26.
"It got hit, so I didn't throw it again," he said.
Spring training is more conducive to learning a new pitch, and Hamels will give it a serious effort when the Phillies report to Clearwater in February.
"We'd like to see him keep the curveball and add a more commandable breaking ball," Dubee said.
Dubee said the slider and the cutter were less complex breaking balls than the curveball and thus easier to control. Hamels' curveball, when on, breaks downward from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock. A slider or cutter is thrown harder than a curveball. Its break is later, sharper and more lateral than a curveball.
"He needs something sharp, like a cutter, to go away from lefties and hard in on righties,'' Manuel said.
Dubee sounded very different when talking about Hamels' possible cutter last week.
"We'll play that by ear," Dubee said. "If we need to add that, it could be something we add. If something flares up then we might have to back away from it. But he actually threw a few last year, just starting to tinker with it and it never caused a problem."
It wasn't necessarily a vote of confidence in a fourth pitch, but Dubee left the door open. And it's very possible before this spring is over we will be talking about Hamels' cutter again.
Hamels said he worked some on the cutter during the off-season.
"Any time you're able to add something else, that adds another pitch and another possibility to throw at a guy and for them to also now have to realize there's not only two pitches now," Hamels said. "You may be able to throw three or four. You can't really narrow it down as much."
Regardless, there will be a resolution before the season starts. Dubee said Hamels will not try to develop a pitch during the regular season. Should the staff not see enough improvement in the curveball over the coming weeks, the fourth pitch could become a factor.
We have a winner in town , PHILLIES BASEBALL everybody enjoy the era!— Eddie Spaghetti- Philly needs to cut Hamels a break overall. I don't care they he doesn't wear Timbos or a Tap Out t-shirt to work everyday. He's a professional guy and a talented pitcher. The Phillies should sell dog sized jerseys with Hamels on them instead of ripping him for wearing a doggie backpack. He will dominate again this year.— JohnKruksDinner
- Anyone see what Buster Olney had to say the other day?— wooderice
- In my lifetime 54 years I have seen two pitchers survive and win consistently on ONE pitch. Phil Niekro with his knuckleball and Mariano Rivera (agh!!!) with that cutter. Hamels just needs to develop and refine both his fastball and curveball and he will be just fine— phillies2012
- Hamels is working on his curveball. He's got plenty to work on right now without tinkering with a 4th pitch. You don't add a 4th pitch until you've got your 3rd pitch down pat.— JimG
- What, exactly, has Cole been doing since October? If he wanted to add a pitch, it would have already happened.— Dutchmen
- Sounds like a cover up. Meaning Hammel is unwiling to change. Soon he'll loose confidence in his curve and he'll be back to 2 pitches ... put money on it! Should have given Hammels to Toronto, kept Lee and the prosepcts— lerze77
- Cole Hammels has a herneited disc???— swash1
- Its strange because I have heard/read things from national people who have seen Hamels and said he looks amazing this year. He is in shape and was throwing as if he had been in camp for months. One person even said that he could be in the second tier of Cy Young candidates. How can things be seen so differently? My answer is that Philly media like to drum up the worst and keep the is Cole finished story as long as possible.— rvb2321
- The Phillies should utilize the HOF talents of Steve Carlton already and re-introduce the slider as devasting outpitch. A lively arm like Cole's would be perfect for his reportoire. You couldn't gear up for his fastball with a hard breaking slider and a stiffling changeup. I can see players now swinging at sharp breaking sliders just inches above their shoe tops. The Phils should be bringing Carlton down to Spring Training ever year to teach how to become great and what it takes to get there. Carlton out shined all others when it came to his work ethic which explains his dominance.— T-Dub
- Why is it that all young starters have regressed under the tutelage of Dubee (Floyd, Kendrick and now Hamels) forcing the team to trade for a starter Moyer/Blanton or sign an old free agent starter, Pedro, by mid season. This is why I fear for J.A. Happ this season.— Dull
- Shawn Andrews syndrome? What is he going to be on IR for the next two years, practice once and be out longer? All while getting a large salary? Did we make it to the WS last year with him or what? You guys are ridiculous with this nonsense.— poopfeast
- Hamels is going to be great. RELAX people!— ChrisM
- How hard is it to add a pitch?— hugh
- umm, Paul Byrd was already signed and on the Phillies when he was an All-Star, wasn't he? I'm confused, if past accomplishments mean nothing then how would they know to target a perennial All-Star and Cy Young candidate in Halladay? You just pick names out of a hate every year?
- According to ESPN's baseball analyst Tim Kurjcan, I think that's how you spell it, he said that Hamels looks great and that his command looks better than it did in 2008. If he pitches like he did in 08 and with the addition of Halladay and hopefully a top notch bullpen, watch out!!! I can't wait!!!— LMUNIZ
- "Being a World Series MVP in 2008 is irrelevant." hahahaha... you should mention WORLD SERIES MVP AT 24.. Hamels hasnt even entered his prime. youngest pitcher on the staff and the one that brought us the championship. i love how this dude, gets absolutely no respect.. its hilarious. Hamels throws the 2nd most inning in 2008. Struggles in 2009 and is no longer good.. god some of you people are morons!— Apollo Creed
- "no baseball player can go out on the field and give 110% every single game" have you not watched, chase utley the last 5 years?.. im pretty sure he gives 120%. As for Hamels, people need to relax. he is the youngest pitcher on the staff.. and it takes time to develop pitches with great command. his fastball and changeup are very, very good. His curve needs alittle fine tuning b/c he doesnt throw it that much.. the command just isnt there bc his other 2 pitches have been so effective. He's a gamer and if you still dont know that, i guess you missed his entire career or his performance in Game 5 of the World Series in 2008.— Apollo Creed
- Have any of you EVER gone to a Spring Training game?— BFlint
- Being a World Series MVP in 2008 is irrelevant. In sports, it only matters what you do in the current season. Past awards and accomplishments mean nothing, it's a new season every year. How many times have we signed someone who was "good once, an All-Star the previous year (remember Paul Byrd?), etc" only to watch them flame out? Give the past accomplishments their due but remember they are just that--the past. All that being said, time will tell if Hamels can recapture his mojo and justify the gamble the Phils are taking on him.— Dave34
- Two things: 1.) I agree with everything Bleue posted. 2.) the best pitch a pitcher can throw is one that he can consistantly locate.— michael2_19030
- im not worried at all. What has Hamels done to ever make anyone think that he isnt the Hamels of 2008? what because he had 1 bad year? OH NO!! God forbid! The guy isnt a fluke. He's dominated practically every season of ever level of baseball from high school up to the majors with the exception of last season. He is an NLCS and WS MVP. everyone needs to RELAX. Just wait and see what happens. And people wonder why we are referred to as negadelphia. People always need something negative to talk about or worry about. Geez they havent even played a single inning of a spring training game and people are already down on Hamels or acting like we're lost without Lee, etc etc. blah blah blah. Lets just enjoy the season. Look how many doubts and flaws we supposedly had when the 2008 season started. Does anyone remember the end result once the season played out? The point is championships are not won or lost in February or even March or April. Lets just enjoy another season with the great team that we have and stop getting on them for every shortcoming or flaw that we can find.— philliekev04
- Saw Cole pitch great last year from "my best seat ever" behind the plate. Loved every minute of it. Pitched 10 years myself in youth baseball. As my fastball became less effective, I developed a good curve ball, a sinker, and eventually a screwball for lefty hitters and broke a lot of righty bats. But I ended up with bone spurs on my elbow and rotator cuff. Had to quit after a couple shots of cortisone. So, my lesson learned is "let Cole be Cole," and he'll grow in ways you can't predict, both good and bad. He's a great talent and needs as much understanding as he can get. There will be games where his third or fourth pitch may help in certain situations, but he should not push it forsaking his two key pitches. That curve or slider should be a "waste pitch" for a while. He hurt himself last year trying to use a curve for an out in a tight situation, so if Dubee called it, shame on him! Go Cole, you the man!— engineerbob
- We'd better be careful what we ask for. Inherent in any pitcher developing a new pitch are arm risks; notice the phrase "..if something flares up". The last thing any of us want to see is Hamels needing Tommy John surgery.— dri_as_a_bone
- well said Bleue.— jayfril
- penncrow - pitchers and catchers have been in camp for like 4 days. That's what spring training and Grapefruit League are for, developing. Let's see where he's at in a month
- You guys are ridiculous sometimes....no baseball player can go out on the field and give 110% every single game like they are some sort of machine (and fyi, all machines break down too)....life impacts them the same way we take our personal lives into our jobs, it's human nature. 1, he didn't train the right way last offseason, he admitted that because of his world series MVP media tour, 2, he had his first child last year, going into the playoffs, he looked like a worrisome, tired, sidetracked, emotional ball player who didn't have his best stuff. Only Philly fans would crucify the guy for it 1 year removed from his WS MVP...He's a year smarter, better shape from an improved offseason regime, less stress by not having to be the #1 guy and live up to his WS MVP, currently no 2nd baby on the way, (keep it that Mrs. Cole) and if he adds a 3rd pitch consistently, a 4th pitch to play with when he's in a groove, he'll be dynamite again. Relax, let him get a few weeks into the season, not just the preseason, before you start writing him off...did I mention WS MVP!!!— Bleue
- I HAVE A REALLY REALLY STUPID QUESTION,WHY HAVE THEY WAITED TILL NOW TO ADD A THIRD AND FOURTH PITCH?HOW LONG HAS HAMELS BEEN IN THE PHILS ORGANIZATION?— soliteryman
- Cole Hamels will be fine.
- I am a little worried and skeptic when it comes to Hamels. With all the talk surrounding his 3rd/4th pitch, they have all been iffy/unsure/work-in-progress type of news. I rather it be something thats more firming, like Hamels come out and say "I have great command of my curveball and feel confident to throw it anytime". I mean, c'mon, its spring training (optimism camp), if you are unsure in the spring, how are you going to gain the confidence to throw it in the season? I rather have Hamels go in with 2 excellent pitches than 3 medicore pitches. Nevertheless, I hope he develops that 3rd pitch— penncrow19
- ease up, haters - this team is still waiting for its first WS win since 1980 without Cole.— Bobby G
- 4th pitch?? He dont even have 3.
- Moyer has twice the pitching brain and pitching knowledge than Doobie,...i trust Moyer anytime over Doobie— SyddBarrett
I listened to an interview with Jamie Moyer during the off season. He was asked about Hamels, and he said he does not need a third pitch. He just needs to command his fastball better. Moyer felt his two pitches, especially his change up, were plenty when he was throwing them the way he did in '08. I trust Moyer. His body may be shot, but the man knows how to pitch.— John621- I wish the media would let the AJ Burnett game go already,,, if you or I had a strike zone as wide as the Grand Canyon that he was given that night,,,,, we too could have gotten MLB players out that night,,,,,
- I also want to see him grow some facial hair ..give him a meaner look.— Prausch
I am paying a lot of attention to stories about Hamels, because when the Phillies traded Cliff Lee, they essentially bet the season on Hamels' ability to again be effective. Hope he has that third and/or fourth pitch down once play begins.- I just hope his FB is better this year. Toooooo Moyer-like last year!— 4thand10
- "Man up" Hamels.— dannyray
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