What do you want out of final 44 games?
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What do you want out of final 44 games?
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
(Yong Kim/Staff Photographer)
MILWAUKEE — Two days after the Phillies traded away two-thirds of their outfield and officially raised the white flag on 2012, Ryan Howard pinch-hit for Domonic Brown in the ninth inning of an eventual loss.
The tying run was at the plate, Brown's season was three games old, and fans grumbled. Why, some asked, is Charlie Manuel forcing Brown — a player the Phillies must learn about — watch this crucial situation from the bench?
Howard took strike three. The game ended, marking the Phillies' 58th defeat of the season.
So here we are, after loss No. 64, and a very similar situation presented itself. Yet the immediate reaction was the complete opposite. It has me confused.
Cliff Lee threw 111 pitches Thursday and most of them were quite good. A few, three of them to be exact, left the ballpark. Still, he pitched well enough to win, and was poised to do just that in the eighth inning until pitch No. 111 manifested a bouncer that Kevin Frandsen threw away.
Up came Ryan Braun, who had already dinged Lee for two long balls. Manuel emerged from the dugout.
"He had gone that far and pitched well," Manuel said. "I wanted him to leave on a good note. I wanted him to win the game. It didn't turn out that way."
Even Lee, who always wants to remain, agreed. "Considering Braun was 2 for 3 with two home runs [off me]," he said, "it actually made some sense."
Manuel signaled for a righty, Josh Lindblom. The Phillies traded Shane Victorino to Los Angeles and the centerpiece of the return was Lindblom, a 25-year-old middle reliever with decent numbers. This season of bullpen roulette had the Phillies desperate to add depth. Lindblom, they hope, is that guy.
But they do not yet know if he is that guy.
"When we first got him, we wanted him to be able to pitch in the seventh in the eighth innings," Manuel said. "We like his arm. We have to give him a chance to pitch. I look at it that way."
Hence, the tryout. This was the perfect scenario. The starting pitcher had done well, but his pitch count was rising and he faced an unfavorable matchup. The Phillies will need a dependable righty in 2013 to record key outs in the eighth inning. What better than to simulate it now, in a meaningless game during a lost season?
Lindblom, of course, failed Thursday. He has allowed 11 home runs this season, more than any National League reliever, and it is a disturbing statistic. In seven games with the Phillies, Lindblom has permitted six earned runs in five innings. He admitted to "nibbling" Thursday, something he said is characteristic of many of his outings with his new team.
The immediate reaction from many fans on Twitter and via email: "Where was Jonathan Papelbon?"
Isn't that like pinch-hitting Howard for Brown?
Papelbon is a known commodity. He is under contract for another three years and owed some $39 million in that span. He will close many more games for the Phillies.
He also has an injury history. The Phillies have shied away from using him in multiple-inning save chances. For who, for what?
"When I watch Papelbon sometimes, once I sit him and send him back out there, he has a little trouble," Manuel said. "I'm not saying I wouldn't have gone with him. I might have."
But the manager made decisions Thursday with 2013 in mind. The outcome was another meaningless blow in 2012. Which is more important to you?
Have a question? Send it to Matt Gelb's Mailbag.
Comments (46)
The difference is that the average Phillies fan wants to complain - so they will pick the side that lets them complain the most.— Phillyfan425- Good article.
Meh, it is what it is at this point. No big deal...just a retooling phase. All good times go through it.
Gotta weather the storms brothas.— Kempatsu - times = teams*— Kempatsu
- I do not want to complain and love my Philly teams, all of them. However, I spend much money to go to the games and truly support the players with positive reinforcement. I remember paying to watch the Eagles and Doug Peterson, the Phillies and Lance Parish, the Sixers and Jeff Hornacek, and the Flyers and Peter Zezel. These teams were awful but, for the most part, they tried to earn as many wins as possible given their abilities. They were not legitimate perennial playoff teams in any sense. Players like Jimmy have all the talent in the world. Is it wrong to ask him to run or break-up a double play? Is it so awful to ask Chase to be honest? Sure, I am just complaining without merit, right?— Stilldiesel11
- Well, Matt, since you asked here's what I'd like to see in these final 44.
First, I'd like to read an article about Chase Utley calling for a team meeting and reading this team the riot act.
Secondly, I'd like Cholly to quit pretending he's making moves for the sake of 2013 while at the same time doing counter-productive things like starting Schneider the other night because the book says that's what you do. Don't we need to find out if Kratz can handle right handed pitching ?
I'd like to see Howard shut down for the final 44 and come back as strong as possible in 2013. What's the point in continuing to run him out there ?
I'd like to see more of our kids on the farm called up and given a chance to prove themselves ? What's to gain by continuing to march KK and Worley out there every 5 days ? We know what we have there and doesn't Worley need season ending surgery ?
I'd like to see Rollins benched for at least one series starting immediately. No need to elaborate on that !
Then, at season's end, I'd like to see Charlie allowed to retire with dignity and given a position within the organization. I think he deerves that.
And finally, I'd like to see the reporters in this town call Amaro out for the fraud he is leading to his firing. There's no way this man's judgement can be trusted going forward. This team needs a complete rebuild.— rockinginthefreeworld - And btw, I do agree with Charlie' s move tonight to bring in Lindblom. We needed to find out if we could count on him in a crucial stuation. We got our answer. — rockinginthefreeworld
- Chase will never be the vocal leader everyone wants him to be. People need to call HIM out on the way he sabotaged the Phils season earlier this year.
Play Kratz the majority of the way, he will be the backup next year so it makes sense.
Good point, but if he can get to 300 HRs this year, it would be a bright spot in an otherwise dull season. Still, would like to see what Ruf can do at 1st and in LF.
Cloyd should be up and maybe even Pettibone. VW is going through the same problem Hamels went through last year, which isn't a career threatening problem just more so of an annoyance.
Rollins wont be benched because he is Charlie's boy.
Charlie's contract is up after 2013 and he has no desire to keep going, hence why they want to get Sandberg up here. They are not going to fire the all-time wins leader after a down year with one year left on his contract. I just hope this move doesn't bit them in the rear-end.
I would love if the reporters did that but I am pretty sure they love their jobs and want to keep them. If they all did it then its a different story.— ESFjellin - I think Cholly came down too tough on J-Stroll last night. Ease up on him please. Used to be Jimmy Poppins, but I think he has cemented J-Stoll into Philly lore. He doesn't deserve to wear the uniform.— LI PhilPhan
- @rockin. agree with everything cept the last paragraph. a lot of the things he does , he has input from bubblegum man. so the jury's still out on him for me. but i do think you're right they need a rebuild not a retool. there's too many positions to address not only next year but the one after that also.— Ryne Duren
- Put John Mayberry out of my misery, he's a atiff. Let Worley get his surgery now. Find a way to put Schnider on the DL and see if Kratz is next years backup. Sit Rollins for a week, embarrass him, as he has to the team for his lack of hustle. Find a way to Charlie to leave gracefully at end of year. Call up every "prospect" we have and play them, let's find out what we have. Give Larry Anderson a raise for being the only one to call out J-Roll.— jimmymack
- what do i want to see out of the last 44 games? nothing...i've seen enough! i do agree with most of rockin's points...— nyphilliephan
- Man, there are a lot of prospective GMs and coaches in Philly - just read all of the insightful comments!— damageboy
- Please keep Rollins away from Domonic Brown. His little lesson last night on how to catch a fly ball at the wall was rediculous. How soon before Brown is jogging to first base? Rollins is a cancer on this team. The young guys need a better mentor. Sandberg will not be afraid to bench guys next year and he'll have no loyalty to guys like Rollins. Love Cholly but its time to go.— dfc5632
- You know what I want? Amaro to keep retooling the team, dumping payroll where it makes sense (Blanton, Victorino -- made sense), adding prospects, making off-season acquisitions of ballplayers, hustlers, grinders. When you look at the 1993 club, there really wasn't a superstar on the team, although Schilling eventually became one. Guys like Kruk, Eisenreich, Daulton, Milt Thompson -- all played hard, though.— eman
- spring training is the time for tryouts, not with 50 games left in the season when your $24 million pitcher had pitched his guts out with 12 strikeouts, managed to finally get the 2 guys who had hurt him previoulsy (he had struck out Braun and Ramirez the last time he faced them) and was looking to get a win on his record to better reflect how he's actually pitched this season (and to enhance his trade value if it comes to that)— warbiscuit
- if Chollie isn't playing to win, why should fans expect Rollins to run hard, Lee to bear down, Brown to time his jumps, etc... when a manager literally gives away a dozen games and makes nonsensical bone-headed moves and non-moves, and wastes everyone's efforts, why should players bother to play and why are they showing the game in Philadelphia?— warbiscuit
- Chollie knows nothing about relievers or match-ups and thinks there is just supposed to be some "8th inning guy" like he had when he was spoiled with Ryan Madson ...and so he misuses Qualls, Bastardo, Schwimer, Stutes, Lindblom, etc because none of these guys can be used like a Ryan Madson and consistently sent in to a tight situation without regard to the hitter,,,an intelligent manager is supposed to know a pitcher's strengths and weaknesses and not just keep sending out the wrong guys to fail...Lindblom is mediocre trash who had no business being out there in a situation in which he was certain to fail, so why was Chollie throwing a win away which Lee had worked so hard to get?— warbiscuit
- I would like to see them do better but since out of playoff last not burning issue for me. Last got Nats Strassburg and Harper. Might get Phills Appell or other strong prospect. Lee has 3rd worse run support in MLB. 99% of baseball people know how good he is. You cant believe Shane did not hustle.— don whitman
- @Damageboy: Ever hear of the Hot Stove League? These boards are the modern day equivilant to the HSL. In your case, you are the one who would throw a bucket of ice water on all the fun. Thanks for your insight and participation!
Sit Howard for the rest of the year. Bring up Rup. Bring up Cloyd. Come the end of the season shop our Big Three of Howard, Utley and Rollins. If there is a deal to make the club better, do it. If not stay the course there. Get Sandberg up here to replace Mackanin. Let Charlie keep his other coaches out of respect to him. Revisit the Lee to Texas deal for Olt. Rebuild middle relief. Give a call to Boras regarding Ryan Madson who is coming off his 1 year deal with Cincy. Lose Schneider and make Kratz the #2 catcher. Look for a centerfielder (Mayberry is not the answer). Could Victorino be willing to come back at a reduced, more realistic salary????— DelawareRiverRat - Spell check: Ruf! :)— DelawareRiverRat
- Josh Windblown.— andrewfrombrooklyn
- Maybe putting Lindblom in there was the right move, but you think maybe after watching him walk the first two batters he faced without barely throwing a strike, maybe he should have pulled him?
These Philly.com writers are getting as bad about drinking the Phillies kool aid as they are with the Eagles.— Only in Philly... - I want to see Aumont in September. The guy has been an over-hyped dud in his three years in the Phillies system. Let him set up for Papelbon. If he can't do it then move on. I have enough seen enough of Aumont clogging up the minor league system with his supposed great stuff but always wildly inconsistent in his appearances. We already know Lindblom has to have been picked up for other reasons than being an eight innings guy. You do not have a home run prone pitcher as your set up guy in close and late games and expect any other result than what we saw last night!— Dull
- Play some kids, sit Rollins down, fire Cholly ... he didn't win the WS, the players did in spite of him. Bring up Sandberg to manage (and if he could still play second base that would be a double bonus).— petergou
- Okay, as a tryout for next year I have no problem with leaving the guy in to prove he stinks. I mean technically the Phils arent eliminated so winning a close game should still be a priority. I think there is enough evidence on the books to show Lindblom is not the guy, but I get giving him another shot.
If Papelbon's has an injury history to be concerned about why did Bobo make him the highest paid closer in the game? He's a moron.
44 More games of Brown should show clearly he is not a 3 tool player much less a 5 tool one. No power, poor defense, and not showing much speed. He does work the count well before he feebly makes an out, but unless he's hiding his speed who needs a corner outfielder with no power or speed?
Lets not see anymore bubblehead, Martinez or Kendrick...I would prefer to bring up guys like Kratz and reward some of our career minor leaguers with a chance to play or better yet some young guys we dont think will make it.— lazyboy - I want Charlie to take a seat far away from the field, preferably in a sound-proof room with Wheels, that pedantic, self-loving, puffy-eyed, otter-headed munchkin.
— Lpaul - 2 Home runs to right off the top of the wall. A good fielder would have caught one. A great fielder would have caught both. Bad throw from third to a 1st baseman who swipes at air instead of watching it into his glove. 2 homers off the an ace pitcher the same game and they're afraid of a third??????? Jroll plays with vigor when he wants????? Can't believe the lack of fundamentals displayed by this team. Tell me with 175 million dollars why can't they field a team of good players? Maybe even great players.— amishjoe
- @amishjoe...yes! Excellent points!
Gelb's point does make sense. Cliff was at 111 pitches. Blame the players for not fulfilling the roles they're supposedly qualified for.
My question about the last 44 games is what good will it do for anyone other than Ryne Sandberg to be presiding over the evaluating?— dasher - Bring up the two kids for the Pen. Bring up Tyler. Put KK in the long role. Play Kratz and bring up a kid catcher. Send out Brian and tell Carlos to wait till next year to make sure he is well healed.— Koons
- What you'll see over the last 44 is that the few ballplayers left on the Phils--Chase, Kratz, Chooch,, Doc, Lee, Cole--are increasingly embarassed to share the field with the team that has sprung up around them. The faces of this team now are Fransden (cast off never was infielder) and John Mayberry (underachieving homegrown) who will be here next year because they have no one to replace him.— eaglescali
- DUMB RUBE AND CHARLIE .....FIRED— tobyjoe
- I want 35 wins.— Seegs
- I want to see Cody Asche, who las night went 3-for-5 with a double and 4 RBI at 3B for the rest of the season. Since the All-Star break, he is hitting .338/.388/.581 with 6 HR and 29 RBI. No more Polanco. I also want to see Cesar Hernandez at second, Tyson Gillies in CF and Darrin Ruff at 1B. And either Pettibone or Cloyd in the rotation or both. Send Worley to have surgery and ask him to get in better shape during the offseason. Tell Howard and Utley to take the rest of the season off. Bring Sandberg now. DFA Sammy. Say goodbey to Dubee also, bring the Pigs pitching coach with Sandberg. Ok, I think that's it.— EL Zorro
- Mystified why anybody watches this sh.t.— Mystified
44-0— jp8899- Total Effort by everybody would be nice (even Cholly's pet)! Play like you're getting paid Millions of Dollars! Also, ask Howard to submit to an Eye Exam and ask Utley to go to Germany with Bynam and have the same procedure done on his Knees. Get rid of Juan Samuel, as he is possibly the worst 3rd base coach in the history of the game! Please release Schneider, Nix, Wiggington and Martinez 5 mins after the last game is over. The day after last game, announce Cholly's retirement and Sandberg's promotion!— cooperhawk
- I hope to Domonic Brown get a serious audition. If the Phillies are still trying to figure out whether Brown is a starting-caliber player in October, they deserve an F.— p-diddy
- Rollins is an albatross around the neck of this team. His bad attitude and apparent head issues remind me of TO. Cancer.— wo_fat
Brewers game turned into a disaster and Charlies reasoning was a joke on why He did not use his best reliever PAP for that last out in the 8th -Which was an injustice to Cliff and the team.
"I did not use him because some times he has trouble after sitting
down"--Charlie--im one of your BIGGEST FANS!!!!-BUT WHAT ARE YOU SAVING HIM FOR--THE PLAYOFFS---YOUR NOT GOING TO GET THERE BUT AT LEAST GIVE THE TEAM AND THE FANS A CHANCE.Pap will have all winter to rest while he is counting those MEGABUCKS that he was given for @50-55 innings of pitching--RIGHT NOW THAT COMES TO ABOUT 20,000 $ PER INNING.
Once the fan base realizes that you have silently given up on the season -they will start giving up in attending the rest of the games.
A LOYAL fan base deserves more then this.RANT OVER.— HO HUM- i'd like them to get above 500.
I'd like to see them finish above Mets in division and get near the conversation of wildcard (I don't think they'll get one of the spots...but I'd like to see a late season push to finish 4 or 5 back)
I'd like to see Cloyd, given a couple of starts. Shut down Worley. I want to watch more of Fransden and Kratz and see if they can keep it up for a longer period.
I think they will need to sign a stop gap at 3b for a season or two, and I'm not for breaking the bank for Hamilton or bourne for CF, so I'd like to see if someone can rise up and take these positions. (i was hoping for melky, but I'd stay away after positive test).
let these young relievers learn on the job and take their lumps...we should sign one or two solid middle relief, but we'll still need to fill a couple spots with the young guys.
I'd like to enjoy watching Pierre and the big 3 starters
Finally, I'd like them to keep winning series. Can't change the past...you can win this series.— kgood - There's not much to look forward to. They only have three young guys playing for 2013. I don't want to see them playing great because there's no pressure on them (probably unlikely) like the Eagles do at the end of every season. Maybe see more young players called up and given a real shot not just a cup of coffee. Especially the guys we hear about who are good prospects. Keeping them in the minors until they are "ready" doesn't benefit anyone especially when they're close to 30 years old.— AvoidSundanceVacations
- About my rant.Many of the so called pundits say the Phils have to many teams to climb over and that is simply not so.If they were (the last 2 games--9 out) they are/would be trying to catch 4/5 teams 4 of which will be going head to head against each other--Pitt-SL--and ARIZ -SF/LA-THEREBY -beating up on each other-all the Phils would hace to do is not give away games like the last 2 and they could be very close-even with all the injuries and adversities.
This is 2012 -play the rest of the 2012 games for the 2012 season not as a looking glass for next year.Phillies nation deserves this.— HO HUM - ho hum,
until they are eliminated, you have to try to root that they can do that...'first step' is climbing above mets and dbacks....then it is time to figure out the the teams fighting for that 2nd wild card spot (Pirates, giants, cardinals)
I said this yesterday on one of the posts: if they can get above .500, and fight near that wild card, it might be Manuel's greatest coaching accomplishment.— kgood - KGOOD--If the other series have one team thar dominates they will eliminate the other -so thats 2 down---SL has the killer schedule.
Well as i post Worley had a 1-0 lead and D BROWN just dropped a ball --running catch--right in his glove with 2 outs --they gave a triple but a flat out error--and just like that -4-1 bucks.No excuse--.Last nite Brown was to near the wall and could not extend his jump-- ball should have been caught -hit the top of the wall then hit his glove and dropped over the fence-
2 rookie mistakes-but tonite a flat out butcher job--you should have seen the look on Worleys face--priceless.— HO HUM - What do I want to see? Not this garbage. Our "stars" are getting from 70K to 800K a game (counting starts for pitchers) to "play." Is it silly of me to expect some effort?
On the plus side we're seeing again Brown has no future. Shaky defense and no power is not something in demand for a corner outfielder. If, and this is a big if, he could handle CF with his eye at the plate he could make a serviceable 2 hitter. If that is something they can work on now might as well try, if not...well he's got 43 games left, but in his first 17 or so he's shown nothing.
Next year looks bleak at best. When is Montgomery going to wake up and realize bobo the clown has killed this team for years to come? It's an old folks home out there.— lazyboy - I want a Manager who will make player changes when necessary, instill discipline in the players and have coaches who can improve the players skills. Players have been improving when they are on other teams.— tulsaphil
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