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Tuesday, July 29, 2008
The Trade Deadline Approaches
Don't bet on Manny Ramirez coming to the Phillies.

Pat Gillick thinks the Phillies have a chance to make another trade before Thursday's 4 p.m. non-waiver trade deadline.

He used the words "cautiously optimistic."

Can you really be cautiously optimistic? Isn't that an oxymoron? I mean, if you're cautious about your optimism, how optimistic are you? Yes, we're deep thinkers here, so chew on that one for a while. But Phillies fans shouldn't get their hopes up for Manny Ramirez, Matt Holliday or Brian Fuentes. Gillick indicated yesterday that none of those players will be wearing red pinstriples anytime soon.

But he still hoped they could add another lefthanded pitcher to their bullpen. If they don't find a lefthander from outside the organization, the Phillies could convert lefthander J.A. Happ into a reliever. In fact, he could be announced today as Adam Eaton's replacement in the bullpen. Happ was pulled from Sunday's start after just 2 2/3 innings. Mike Arbuckle explained why, "We pulled him as a precaution. We really don't know what's going to happen at the trade deadline, and we didn't know if we were going to need him in the big leagues or weren't or whatever. We just wanted to keep all our options open, and we thought the best way to do that was limit his outing just so that he might be ready in case we needed him or there was a trade. A lot of different things could happen over the next couple days."

In other words, they might need him tonight in DC against the Nationals and they might need him as a trade chip and didn't want to risk injury.

*

Eaton is scheduled to start Thursday for single-A Lakewood. He isn't expected back to the big leagues until Sept. 1, when rosters expand. There's no question at this point that he has been one of the worst free agent signings in franchise history. Why not just cut him? Well, for the simple reason that he's under contract and making $8.5 million next season. I also think the Phillies will keep him around -- I can't imagine anybody trading for him unless the Phillies eat almost his entire contract -- because they might want to have an extra arm in spring training. Who's knows what the future holds for Jamie Moyer and Brett Myers? Moyer could retire. Myers might not be successful as a starter and could become a full-time reliever next season. They might want to create some competition in the rotation next spring, even though Eaton hardly has provided much of that.

*

Myers goes tonight. The Phillies desperately need him to pitch well. If not, the Phillies have said they can't sit around and do nothing.

"He's going to have to perform well," Ruben Amaro Jr. said. "We're trying to win our division, so we're going to try to put the best starters out there we can to win. We have to keep our minds open with what we're going to do. We're not locking ourselves in with anything. We believe he'll stay in the rotation, but we have to keep our options open, and we will."

Could we see Myers in the bullpen at some point? It's possible. But that wouldn't be good. The Phillies think an effective Myers is the second-best pitcher in the rotation and gives them a better chance in the postseason. If Myers moves to the bullpen and Happ takes his place, who's the No. 2 starter come the postseason?

*

Chase Utley has "mild soreness" in his hip. It's not serious, and doesn't require surgery.

Posted by Todd Zolecki @ 8:18 AM  Permalink | 63 comments
63
Comments   
Posted 03:38 PM, 07/29/2008
GHOSTPHAYCE
mondonj - I definitely agree with you on Myers. He better have his gameface on at all times until he turns it around. It's one thing to be taking care of your business and having a good time with your team on the bench....That's actually a good thing....But when you have been under-performing and embarrassing yourself on the field, you better check the joking and smiling and keep your focus on improving your game. Brett does not understand that, it's indicative of his weak mentality. I'd like to see him turn it around, but he's run out of chances and it's now or never. I don't see it happening, but I hope he proves me wrong.
Posted 03:20 PM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
what's the deal on this trade rumor with Jason Donald to the Royals for Ron Mahay? What does anyone know about Mahay? If he can help us this year, I go for it. Posistion prospects are trade bait for pitchers as far as I'm concerned
Posted 03:10 PM, 07/29/2008
mondonj
Someone please get Myers some ADD medication and keep him off camera. If i see him smiling and joking around on the bench one more time i am gonna puke. When you are sucking dont be smiling and laughing!!!
Posted 03:01 PM, 07/29/2008
GHOSTPHAYCE
J-Roll you need to pick up your game too. I expect A LOT more out of the reigning MVP.
Posted 02:50 PM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
I agree we probably couldn't get much for Moyer, but he is touchable if someone wants him as a pitching coach
Posted 02:50 PM, 07/29/2008
GHOSTPHAYCE
Is David Montgomery editing this blog??? Well Dave if you are....do us all a huge favor and set Adam Eaton free. Eat the rest of his contract and rid the team of a consistent distraction and disappointment. Start running the team like any other business and cut the FAT. As for Myers, you better be on point tonight buddy because you are now pitching for job again. Let's see a sweep of a lifeless Washington club start tonight!!
Posted 02:45 PM, 07/29/2008
KarenA
I don't know who you could get for Moyer---plus I bet he either retires as a Phillies (since he grew up here) or goes back to Seattle since that is where he lives now and he might want to retire from the Mariners. I agree we definitely need to sign Pat Burrell even though the odds seem against it.
Posted 02:40 PM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
JimmyMack: I agree with you except- I would trade Coste-we got Madson coming up next year and Ruiz is a good back-up catcher. I would trade Moyer though I love him, he is 45 and how long can his arm last? I would trade Werth, provided we sign Pat. We need to sign Pat!! We need a RF, a 3rd baseman who can hit, and at least 3 starters and a set up guy
Posted 02:14 PM, 07/29/2008
Norma
bobby.....By *even trade*, I meant outfielder for outfielder. I agree the Rockies would never go for it unless someone else was included in the trade. Not sure what they need though. Bullpen help? Maybe we can send Brett along. LOL!
Posted 02:07 PM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
I did a comparrison of this year's team and teh 1980 team. I was surprized to see that the 80 team had an average player age (starters, starting pitchers and top 2 relief pitchers) of 30.6 compared to this years team of 30.2. The differene is in time in majors. The 80 team had an average of 8.7 years in big leagues while this team has only 6.8 years. This takes into account the two rookies on teh WS team (Walk and Bystrom). We are a young team. No need to rebuild. Jut add the right missing peices
Posted 01:48 PM, 07/29/2008
KarenA
Norma: Too cool for school meeting Jamie Moyer!Sorry you didn't get a chance to ask Chase about this mysterious hip injury...lol I agree with everyone about Myers returning the BP. I think he'd be happier there and more productive if he was the set-up man for Lidge. Phillies website said they called up Happ to replace Eaton's place on the roster, but haven't said whether he's a starter or in the BP.
Posted 01:42 PM, 07/29/2008
bobby
I'm on vacation, so not checking in so often, but Norma, Werth an even trade for Holliday? I can't imagine the Rockies seeing it that way.
Posted 01:37 PM, 07/29/2008
RG
That changed quickly, now Stark is reporting they are not close on Mahay, and Happ has officially been added to the roster.
Posted 01:23 PM, 07/29/2008
bski
If Gillick pulls the trigger on the Mahay deal, it cements the fact that there was never any intention of putting Rollins on the block.(for all you "trade Rollins" people). Donald will probably be the Royals starting SS next year. Rollins is signed through 2011, so Donald would be blocked here until 2012. It's a clear sign of who the Phils are sticking with.
Posted 01:13 PM, 07/29/2008
RG
JamesTL, they do have a payroll of $100 mil this year and did lock up Utley, Rollins, Abreu, and Burell long term, plus they made the splashy moves with Millwood, Thome, Milton, etc. Its not all about them being cheap. I just think they are poorly run, especially with player development and drafting. That said, if they won't bust the budget, we can't do anythign about it, so I'd think the next best move is to trade guys who have max value, lower the payroll to about $40-50 mil, rebuild the farm, and run out some talented youngsters. When the time comes, they can trade for and resign a guy like Sabathia.
Posted 01:10 PM, 07/29/2008
James TL
RG: The problem is the Phils will try to use option 'b'. It's what they always do which is why they fail. Blanton is a 'b' option. He sucks but he's cheap. You and I both know the Phils are only about making money. They seem to have no intention of trying to win it all.
Posted 01:03 PM, 07/29/2008
James TL
After Myers get roughed up tonight he will be moved to the bullpen and Happ will be in the rotation. Don't be surprised to see Happ as the first reliever tonight especially if Myers is taken out before the 6th inning which is a distinct possibility. Myers just doesn't have the concentration to be relied upon as a starter. Happ is a starter-- they shouldn't even try to make him a reliever.
Posted 01:01 PM, 07/29/2008
bski
MARK: You are right that we have a poor track record with trading guys like Schilling and Rolen. Although in each case weren't they going to walk at the end of the season? They had us over a barrel and the entire league knew it so we had to take what we could get. That's why trading Howard could make sense. Please let me state once again for the record that I do not WANT to trade Howard. All I am saying is if the Phils KNOW that they will not or can not keep him, they need to trade him and get everything they can in return instead of letting him walk. IF this is the course they are on, then trading him sooner would be better than later. Since Howard has two more arbitration years, the team that gets him knows they will have him for at least those two seasons. This should increase what we get in return. If we keep him for two more seasons and try to move him at the deadline, we're in a Schilling/Rolen situation again.
Posted 12:55 PM, 07/29/2008
RG
You see it as I do bski. Ownerships at about their payroll threshold and frighteningly enough, the Phils have the oldest roster in the league. If they finish 5-6 games out, and lose Burrell, Moyer, etc., they have three choices a) splurge on top FAs b) sign patchwork guys to supplement the core, or c) blow it up. They probably won't do a), so c) is most attractive to me. FLA runs out young guys every year and remains competitive, Phils could do the same, but with an added bonus of being able to take on more salary when needed.
Posted 12:51 PM, 07/29/2008
bski
RG: I agree that Utley and Hamels are the only two true untouchables. I would entertain offers for anyone else as long as we are getting at least equal value in return. I also agree with remaking the team if we fade. Fading is the tricky part however. This team has been constructed to be good but not great for what is now the 8th year in a row. We've had only one losing season in that stretch and we didn't remake the team then. If anything, since we won the division last year, ownership will see this year as nothing more than an anomalous off year. I don't see us fading severely enough for ownership to sign off on a big shakeup.
Posted 12:46 PM, 07/29/2008
hkhund07
Assuming Myers is effective in the pen and we get Mahay, it would strengthen an already effective pen. The starting 5 would be Hamels, Moyer, Kendrick, Happ, and Blanton. And in September add Carrasco maybe.
Posted 12:43 PM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
He absolutely ruled us when he was with the Braves the latter half of 07. They could have had Mahay last year and cheaper than Romero, they signed Romero, said they were done and set in the BP, now guess what, we need Mahay......hope we don't give up much for him. We could have just signed him outright and not given uop anything except a leter round draft choice. Another bad decision depleting the farm....
Posted 12:41 PM, 07/29/2008
RG
Sounds like its close to happening. Mahay for Donald. Mahay's signed for next year, as well. If you can't get a starter, load up on the pen and shorten the game. Next step would be Happ into the rotation, Myers in the pen, and the DL or release for Seanez.
Posted 12:36 PM, 07/29/2008
hkhund07
On ESPN.com Jayson Stark is speculating that the Phillies might get Ron Mahay from the Royals. He's a left handed relied pitcher.
Posted 12:33 PM, 07/29/2008
Norma
jimmymack.....I agree with your list, except for Werth. Trade him for Matt Holliday. An even exchange.
Posted 12:28 PM, 07/29/2008
Norma
KarenA & jeff gross.....Got to talk to Jamie a bit last night at the Phillies Phest. Told him he was "our 45 year old *ace*." He loved that! LOL! Again with Chase's hip *issue*. I thought it was pretty funny that Gillick was the one who brought this up a couple of days ago, saying "it's affecting Chase's swing". NOW he's saying, that's not the reason at all. Thinks Chase is "opening up to soon at the plate". Make up your mind, Pat! LOL!
Posted 12:19 PM, 07/29/2008
jimmymack
Mark1npt: I agree, gotta trade value to get value, but I threw them out there to see what other names came up, entertainment purposes only while we wait for Myers to pitch and the trade deadline. I'll put on a helmet and kevlar vest...LOL.
Posted 12:19 PM, 07/29/2008
RG
Ok, jimmymack, I was thinking about it the other day too. I think that if they fade down the stretch, it may be time to remake the team, ala FLA. The only true untouchables would be Cole (#1s are impossible to find) and Utley (he's their best player, due to his consistency). In the offseason, with the absolute right deals, I'd trade Jimmy and Ryan for 2-3 major league ready prospects each. Same with Lidge. My thinking is this, we lose Burrell and Moyer this season, and we dont sign any top FAs, the team will start to decline, especially since Jimmy and Ryan are pushing 30. If I do this, I'm also calling up Carrasco, Golson, Donald, Marson, Happ, etc. to see what they can contribute.
Posted 12:05 PM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
Bski, it's more like hallucinating, lol,lol,lol.....Jmack you are going to take a beating on these names.....Victorino OR Werth has to go to get someone good/great whether it's Manny or a stud pitcher...Jroll may have to go to get a true stud....but not for another Blanton....the Phils track record of getting rid of star players and what we get in return is way past abysmal....what did we get for Schilling? 4 nobody's not even prospects.....Rolen, that's pathetic, worse than nobodys and Abreu? We should have gotten big time prospects for our depleted system, all we got was a salary dump for a productive, yet loafing player......we got nothing.....we haven't come out on the right end of the deal since the Carlton trade in '70...that's 38 years!.....poor talent evaluators and poor negotiators all these years......it's way more than a trend it's a way of life for this organization.
Posted 12:03 PM, 07/29/2008
cg
It's good to see at least some of the players are relaxed. Unfortunately one of them is a little too relaxed...check out the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h--_dAdRcw
Posted 11:55 AM, 07/29/2008
jimmymack
Today's question: Who are the absolute untouchables on the ML roster for trade bait? Limit 13 names. Mine are Chase, Jimmy, Ryan, Shane, Dobbs, Werth, Hamels, Moyer, Lidge, Romero, Durben, Kendrick, Coste. I'm leaving myself open for slings and arrows, this should be fun.
Posted 11:53 AM, 07/29/2008
bski
Mark, I did say dreaming, right?
Posted 11:53 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
Talking point detective: Must be fair to Myers. He was very good in the pen last year. Had 48 games as a reliever, 21 saves, an WHIP of 1.282. had .325 bb/k when his career ave is .433. bit*h about this year, not last year.
Posted 11:49 AM, 07/29/2008
Matt
He was a hell of a better reliever than a starter, plus he wants to be in the bullpen. But no, we'll continue to run Rudy Seanez out of the bullpen.
Posted 11:47 AM, 07/29/2008
jimmymack
Well Truth, glad I am meeting your expectations, certainly will make my day go better...LOL. IMHO, moving Happ to the bullpen and "The Phillies think an effective Myers is the second-best pitcher in the rotation" just reinforces my belief that they are clueless. And while Burnett looks tempting, his contract is not something I would take on.
Comment removed.
Posted 11:29 AM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
Bski, Truth...don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Halladay..I asked for him a few times over the past month...however, I don't think Toronto will deal him (or that PG is listening to me), not without giving up the farm....the complete farm. Burnett has been at his best as of late. He's pitching motivated, which I think has always been his problem and baseball people know it, his lack of drive/ motivation....for that reason we may not want to take him on.....I agree that Happ should not be converted to the pen and Myers should, he will need to be after giving up 2-3 HRs tonight to the Nats, that powerhouse bunch from down south....
Posted 11:21 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
I agree Matt: it worked last year when flash came back to be teh set up guy for Myers. This year, let Myers be teh set up guy for Lidge and put Happ in the rotaton. See what he's got. I hope he's another Bystom or Walk
Posted 10:57 AM, 07/29/2008
Matt
This organization is stupid. Why would they convert Happ into a reliever when he's been so sucessful this year as a starter. Why not move Myers back into the bullpen, especially since we know Flash won't be back. Why do we continue to cling on to hope that Myers and Eaton will be good starters. They won't be, admit your mistake.
Posted 10:47 AM, 07/29/2008
bski
Ematusko: Although it's difficult to follow, I think I've got the Phils' logic down. Our young pitchers in the minors aren't good enough to help us just yet. That's why we've had to struggle this long with Myers and Eaton. However, our young pitchers are too good to use as trade bait to land either a pitcher (starter or reliever) or a bat that can help us now. Since our young pitchers will be helping us next year, there will be no need to add pitching in the off season either. You see?
Posted 10:37 AM, 07/29/2008
ematusko
Can we please sack up and get some pitchers this off season? If you spend the money to get a quality team then your revenue will typically follow suit. I've already written off this season. We don't have the pitching to get there, and even if we stage a major turn around, we will be ousted in the first round. Thanks again front office.
Posted 10:37 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
KarenA: tell me about it. Gillick got lucky on that one. It couldn't have been any skill as we've seen his other moves. Why not offer it to him next year as player/coach.
Posted 10:34 AM, 07/29/2008
KarenA
Jeff G - Moyer would be excellent as a pitching coach. Heck, he practically does it already. He always seems to be the go to guy for many of the young pitchers (i.e. Kendrick)It's criminal in his last couple of starts that they haven't won. Who'd thought he'd be one of Gillick's better acquisitions?!
Posted 10:24 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
Not only is it funny but it is sad in many ways. He was picked up as teh number 4 starter and is now the number 2. I'd sign him as the pitching coach as well and dump the idiot we currently have
Posted 10:23 AM, 07/29/2008
bski
Mark: If we're going to dream, let's dream big. How about Halladay instead of Burnett?
Posted 10:18 AM, 07/29/2008
Truth
Mark1npt-Banton and Burnett combined are 1/4 of a Sabathia or a Harden. The only thing a 2nd teir pitcher does is allow the team replace Myers with another Myers and move the real Myers to the 'pen.
Posted 10:14 AM, 07/29/2008
Truth
Jimmymack-I'll tell ya, you are really progressing by the day! This organization has been playing for the division or wild card since the Bowa days. They don't aim high. Look at what Sabathia has done for the Brewers(125 pitches last night)....If you want a Series you have to go for broke!
Posted 10:09 AM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
If Myers can't go atleast 7 innings and beat the Nats, we have serious problems....they are no better than a AA or AAA team.....oh wait , he lost to AA and A teams just recently dodn't he?....PG better get busier on those phones. I haven't been a big AJ Burnette fan in the past years but this guy has been pitching his best games lately, perhaps auditioning to get out of Toronto? I think he's a warrior, mentally tough and could add a good power arm to this staff of pitch to contact namby pambys.......anybody agree?
Posted 10:09 AM, 07/29/2008
KarenA
Here's the "funny part"....the "grandfather" could win his 10th game on Thursday and has the 2nd best ERA of the starting rotation.
Posted 10:06 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
anyone think Lefty might be up to pitching a few games? He can't be worse then teh guys we have now
Posted 10:05 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
well, I'd fold if I was holding it, that's for sure lol
Posted 10:03 AM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
Not a very good poker hand, is it Jeff Gross?
Posted 09:55 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
I have no idea if anyone here is religious, but I suggest we all start praying real hard Myers gets his act together tonight. I hate to see the rotaton otherwise. It looks like an ace, a grandfather, and 3 babies
Posted 09:50 AM, 07/29/2008
bski
Jimmymack, I don't know which is more disappointing to me. The fact that we have gotten to this point and yet we are still waiting to see what Myers gives us tonight before we feel any urgency to pull off a deal, or the fact that the Phils actually seem to believe that Myers can turn himself around.
Posted 09:35 AM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
Jimmymack, I can't decide whether it's low expectations from the front office (so that any playoff is a bonus to us fans) or whether this is really the corporate standard. I agree, you get what you aim for. Excellence at the corporate headquarters and all the way down the line should be the mindset, the "expectation" every year. World Series or bust should be the motto......
Posted 09:34 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
oops, that was supposed to be or Carrasco. Thankfuly they haven't traded him
Posted 09:29 AM, 07/29/2008
jeff gross
Looks like our rotation for the stretch may be: Cole, Moyer, Kendrick, Happ, and either the Eaton look-a-like we traded for Carrasco. Hold your breath, its going to be a rocky ride...
Posted 09:27 AM, 07/29/2008
JayW
There's no question that the Rockies would love to trade Fuentes for Happ, whatever they may say. They need starting pitching right now desperately and they have several other options for a closer. This would be a terrible trade for the Phillies.
Posted 09:23 AM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
I doubt Chase has just mild soreness btw, he's looked uncomfortable for a long time now.....and it's certainly bad enough that uit's put a big dent in his hitting avg and power numbers....he can't turn on a ball well at all now.....same with Rollins and his ankle....
Posted 09:23 AM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
I doubt Chase has just mild soreness btw, he's looked uncomfortable for a long time now.....and it's certainly bad enough that uit's put a big dent in his hitting avg and power numbers....he can't turn on a ball well at all now.....same with Rollins and his ankle....
Posted 09:07 AM, 07/29/2008
dc4183
Too bad its not like football where if they underperform you can just send them packing.
Posted 08:53 AM, 07/29/2008
jimmymack
I was more than a little distressed to listen to Amaro and Monty last night on TV and their singular focus on winning the division. Guys, that's nice but I'm looking for a NL pennant, not just the division. Low expectations usually yield low results. If Myers gets bombed tonight, Gillick will have to go for broke on a trade.
Posted 08:28 AM, 07/29/2008
Mark1npt
For goodness sakes Todd......if I hear one more time that we need rotation competition next spring, I'm gonna puke....we've all seen what Eaton does, repeatedly whenever there is any competition....he folds......crumbles.....collapses....spring or regular season does not matter.....why give him any more chances? We've seen enough to know Eaton ain't good....he's not even tolerable. Eat the salary and let him go......far, far away.....
About Andy Martino
Andy Martino is in his first season on the Phillies beat. A former New York City public school teacher and graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, he previously wrote for the New York Daily News, where he covered baseball and worked with the award-winning investigative sports "I-team."
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