Shane Victorino benched as Charlie Manuel laments his approach
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Shane Victorino benched as Charlie Manuel laments his approach
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
(Ron Cortes/Staff Photographer)
There was a meeting before Charlie Manuel benched Shane Victorino. It happened Thursday night after a Phillies loss. Victorino had started 70 of the team's first 71 games and in his last one, he popped out in the eighth to strand the potential tying run on second base.
He was booed as an ordinary season slogged to another day — until Manuel told him he would not be a part of Friday's action.
"There was no apparent reason," Victorino said.
The manager was more revealing.
"I wanted to sit him down and want him to relax," Manuel said. "I just want him to sit there and see if he can clear his head a little bit. We'll give him a break and see what happens. Sometimes an off day is good for you."
Victorino, who is some 100 days away from free agency, says he is not concerned by that impending status. When asked if Victorino's contract has had a negative effect, Manuel rolled his eyes and said, "What do you think?"
That said enough.
For one, Victorino has not driven the ball with the frequency he did a season ago. He was among baseball's best when 10.2 percent of his hits went for extra bases. That rate has dropped to 7.4 percent in 2012, which would be his lowest since 2006.
Nearing the halfway point of this season, Victorino is on pace for career lows in batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage.
Victorino predicted he would lead the league in triples as part of a national ad campaign for Major League Baseball before the season started. Through 71 games, he doesn't even lead the Phillies. Juan Pierre has three and Victorino has two.
"The way they're pitching him, he's striding quick and getting out on his front side," Manuel said. "He's an arm and hand hitter right now. He's an upper-body hitter. He's like a two-strike, defensive hitter from the left side right now.
"I want him to stay back and take better cuts at the ball."
Data from MLB's Pitch F/X system shows Victorino is seeing slightly fewer fastballs. He has seen more change-ups in 2012 while putting fewer in play.
"They take the sting out of his bat," Manuel said.
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Comments (51)
The whole team suffers when half the starting 8 should be either retired, in the minors or on the bench. A supporting player like Vic won't be a star just because he's been on the team the longest and won a World Series. Like most players, he is what he is.— AvoidSundanceVacations- The entire team should be benched. They all stink. Talk about a fast sinking ship....— mbutley
- And you play for who? Probably never played organized sports accept for jacks but since you pay for tickets you can criticize them. Wrong... It's only a game... Get out the basement and see what you have been missing.. — Usafdav
- good move kept him there till he wakes up— rfklak
- good move kept him there till he wakes up— rfklak
- Vic is gone at the trading deadline. But, then so should 4-5 others.— Koons
- need players who get on Base.— daryl b
- they're on life support. but if these dudes pull a stunner and win it all this season, the parade down broad street is gonna be 2008x3.
- Misleading headline to get people to click. "Benched" implies that Manual has a new Center Fielder. But the text appears to say that this is a day off for a guy who has played a lot of games this season and is feeling some pressure.— tealradish
- though I am not one to make "excuses" for anyone, fans should understand that from day one (in 2006-07), Victorino was never expected to be anything other than a useful complementary player if he could get on base enough to keep him in lineup with his terrific defensive skills... when the Phillies of 2007- 2009 were a terrific offensive team this allowed for Victorino to just do his thing and his offense was a bonus... he was best batting in no. 2 spot before Utley and had some clutch hits with no pressure on him... on good teams like Yanks and Redsox a lot of hitters do well becuase there are no soft spots in lineup and there is little pressure on each individual ... once the team's offense fades then it is unrealisitic to expect complementary players like Victorino, Pence, Rollins, Ruiz, etc to be the major run producers as they are simply incapable of doing so... thus although I am a frequent critic, for the most part my criticism is not of the players for their insufficiency but on the g.m. who severely overspent and over-relied on such insufficient players while wasting the highest budget in the league.. if a g.m thinks that a lineup with Pence, Victorino and Mayberry in the key spots would be enough to hold the fort when he knew Howard and Utley were starting the season with major injury issues then he's the one at fault; if he thought that Herndon, Qualls, Schwimmer, Willis, Kendrick, etc were going to comprise a decent bullpen then he's the clear-cut imbecile— warbiscuit
- Sheesh. The NL East is absolutely up for grabs and we aren't at the All-Star break yet. You guys need to calm the eff down. WHEN they get Utley and Halliday back it'll be an obvious moral boost, let alone the leadership and skill. IF we get Howard back after the break, do you really think he is going to forget how to get RBI's?! Chill out. The Braves and Mets still know how to choke and the Nats...well, hopefully they will remember who they are. And Miami is a question mark, pitching-wise. Calm down, people, they aren't on life support just yet.— girouxforpresident
- is it the players fault that they are inadequate, or the g.m.'s fault that he overspends and relies on inadequate players? (and the manager's fault that he continues to send out players in spots in which they consistently fail)..anyone who knows anything about baseball coud have told you that Rollins offense has been fading since 2007, that Wiggington and Thome can't field, that Qualls and Herndon and Willis and Kendrick can't pitch and that Victorino and Pence can't carry a team— warbiscuit
- Two other players made outs with Wigginton in scoring position before Victorino did. So, the implication he's being benched because he didn't bring in Wigginton is ludicrous. Victorino had a better bat than Pence. Methinks Victorino is being benched because he may be on the trade block and the Phils want to make certain the outfield won't disintegrate without Victorino in centerfield. Victorino is trying too hard, and I've come to the conclusion he should try only hitting from the right side which is his natural side. He's a much better hitter from the right side, not only average-wise but also confidence-wise. Of course, if Victorino is to be the pariah the Phils will trade in the next few weeks to show the other players the management means business, I'm sure his next team will have already figured out that he is a perennial .300 hitter if he only hits from the right side as well as a perennial Gold Glove outfielder. If the Phils do make the mistake of trading him, I hope it's for Felix Hernandez who Seattle wants to trade for a hitter instead of Kevin Youklis who Boston wants to trade for anybody.— onthebucks
- rollins should be next— 1stamendment
- Vic has been terrific since 2007. He is in a slump and he is being singled out. I am sure his contract is on his mind but wouldn't it be on all yours too. I was PO'ed at Lee when he went after him in a couple of weeks ago and I don't like seeing this now. The linup is in shambles with 3 and 4 out. Everyone is trying to do more then they can and the fans are frustrated. We should remember what this guy has done ans meant to this team before judging so harshly. Keep you chin up Vic and things will turn your way— pjm0825
- Cant blame just one guy, theres plenty of finger pointing to do on this team and i dont have enough fingers to do so. Theres too much pressure on the remaining players with the superstars out of the lineup. First it was the offense, then relief pitching, then it was the starting pitching, now its the whole team. Nobody is stepping up and taking charge at being a leader, have we lost our MOJO?— huntnmike3666
- Isn't "Manuel benches Victorino" a little alarmist or, dare I say, sensationalism? He's scuffling and the manager is sitting him down for a day or two. Benching means, to me, he's not starting for a long time or maybe ever again. Just food for thought.
— Horst Muhlman lives on in all of us - It won't break my heart to see Victorino go.— Chief_Negotiator
- Ruben's been planning this all along. An eight player batting order. His boy Martinez is going to play 2B and CF at the same time.— dasher
- Victorino said their was no apparent reason. Is he kidding me , how about poor play.— joepir
- I suspect that many of these posters were not around in 1980 when Dallas Green took on the country club atmosphere that was the Phillies club house, 1st half of that season. I see the same happening with our 2 major cogs today in Vic and JRoll. Vic is a 300 type hitter who has his head screwed in the wrong way for reasons only he and Charlie know. I give Charlie credit, he's kept the benching low key, without the personal insults that Dallas threw in that season. If these players love playing for this man like they all say they do, it'd be best if they return that respect around towards him and start playing the way they are capable.
@warbiscuit: I disagree on your premise about RAJ. I suspect had the GM not gone out to fill pressing needs in RF-Pence.....for starting pitching-Lee, Halladay, Oswalt.....for 3rd base-Polanco, that many posters would have been at his throat wondering why he was sitting on all that minor league talent when the division and another World Series title were up for grabs. Granted, the team did not pull off another WS, but the GM tried and that is all I can ask. Simple fact is; this team's shelf life has X amount of years and we are reaching that expiration date, nothing more.— DelawareRiverRat - The Phils need to make two trades to get top 10 prospects that will be ready next year and reopen that window of opportunity. Mike Olt 3B prospect from Texas and Royals outfielder prospect Will Myers. They are both in the 23-24 range and ready to go. Add them and you are set for the next 5 years, perfect blend of age and youth which is what they had in 2008-09 and don't have now.— REL3
- Manuel continues to prove he's completely clueless..— dedhed
The flying hawaiian doesn't fly anymore. superstar no more. A happy hawaiian-sure- but he should not be happy. He makes too much money to not be performing. He and Pence are a great pair-1st pitch swings and popups. Why is it that Carlos, the most underpaid starter is having a lights out season? He works hard, He cares and he ALWAYS gives his all. Have you seen the way he blocks the plate when someone tries to score? We need five more guys like him.- Some of you folks continue to say that things are "gonna be alright when we get Utley & Howard back"....
Wake up !!!!!! You are delusional....the Utley & Howard you dream of, are NEVER coming back. NEVER !!! Utley will announce his retirement before he gets another 100 MLB ABs and Howard's next meaningful game will be as an AL DH.
It's gonna get a LOT worse, before it get better
S— Smradad - If he sits for three straight games it's a benching. Right now it's an "off day." We'll see if Cholly has the stones to actually administer a ticket on the pine ride.— Sam Crow
- How bout benching his cousin pop-n-jog Jimmy?— wo_fat
- Oh the melodrama. The guy is getting a day off, big deal.— lazyboy
- phillies fans,its a long season typical posters,untypical season.its time to go back to the drawing board,and get fresh guys,in and old ones...bye bye.or shake up the lineup..
— t_darb_56 - how is charlie manuel the manager in the fourth largest market????
want a joke— stayoutofphilly - how is charlie manuel the manager in the fourth largest market????want a joke (HTML deleted)— stayoutofphilly
- I heard Victorino on the radio today say something negative to a reporter last night in reaction to the game. Charlie doesn't like it when players get negative toward the fans or in their interviews, so thats why I partly think he is sitting, to try to cool down some and get his head together,— watsonmr
- Yellow journalism, .Com style: The picture accomadating this article is meant to inflame the masses in some manner. Pictured is a dugout scene featuring Victorino standing, hands on hip, scowl on face while Charlie appears to be uttering something while looking towards Victorino. Totally unneccesary and just meant to inflame those who want to make something more out of something that may or may not be there. Just uncalled for, IMO! :)— DelawareRiverRat
- Yeah, Utley is really close to retiring. That's why he is playing every day and batting 4 times a game. And I'm sure Ryan Howard will never be the same again....because most posters on this column are sports medicine experts and no player over 28 years old ever comes back from an injury (eyes rolling). Morons. Those two guys are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. If it was over for them, it'd be over by now. We'll probably see Utley in the next few weeks and Howard after the break and with them more runs and better fielding which, ***gulp***, just might actually mean more wins. But keep your heads in the sand, super fans, I'm sure the ride is over because we are 9 games out of first on June 22nd (eyes rolling at you again).— girouxforpresident
- Nice to see you have taken time off from the campaign trail. Stick with politics and hockey, you don't seem to know much about baseball.
All Vic is good for is rubbing shaving creme in someone's face during an interview....and there hasn't been much call for that lately....Can't wait till he leaves....Let him walk,he served his purpose here...— JimiZero- This will give Victorino more time to concentrate on what he really cares about - runway modeling.— ej610
- Benching the wrong guy. Pence/Rollins/Martinez...take your pick.— Ssteve115
- .... Yet JRoll continues to bat at top of order, with worse numbers than Victorino (?)... SO... WHY Isn't Charlie Manuel 'permanently benched' himself?— ExiledinFla
- Yeah, this headline is meant to get the reader, not portend what the article is actually about. Poor "journalism."
But really, most guys in this lineup should be given many days off. If one player is not doing the job, try someone else. And keep trying until you find something that works. Just throwing the same old pieces out there simply because they cash the biggest checks is ludicrous. Two of the most important spots in the batting order is 1st and 3rd, and they are the only two slots where Rollins has batted. Now please, most any observer can tell that Rollins is NOT one of this team's better hitters, but look where Charlie always puts him. He must be afraid of Lil' Jimmy.— MrPhillie - About Time— cleusner
- five years back the phillies had a rookie sitting on the bench who i thought was the next ashburn. he was raw and needed a couple years to get into his basic skill set, but boy, did he ever look like the real thing. they traded him away, and, okay, the guy they got won us a world series, but i've always felt they traded the wrong centerfielder. then last year they had a big chance to get him back, and blew it. two different gms, the same mistake. that victorino won three goldens is sure sign the voting is done by writers. (remember, they once gave it to abreu!) vic, like rollins, is a little guy who believes he's a slugger. it's apparent by now he will never change that attitude, and for sure the hitting gooroo won't/can't change him.— bubba church & granny hamner
- Is it possible to bench Booben Amaro permanently? He created this mess of a team. The buck stops with him.— DameB
- Could the benching be due to Victorino's recent comment that Manuel told him he wants him to just be who he is when batting (This was after attempting to bunt to get on base).
Remember this spring when Manuel said he was totally onboard with Amaro's decree that Phillie batters must become better situational hitters.
Seems like someone is lying... - Somewhere along the line these Phillies became too self-satisfied - Victorino and Rollins most of all. Shane thinks they're preordained to win - no need to work hard. Rollins has all he wants - his ring and his contract. He's already semi-retired.— ekurilla
- Victorino needs a rest, Charlie is the best at this kind of thing with a hitter. Victorino should just sit and shut up.— Ron
- Best to move the "sittin Hawaiian" for prospects. Time for a yoot movement.— NewMick314
- Lack of talent is excusable, but lack of effort is just sickening. Vic has the talent, he just needs to focus and stop trying to hit a 5 run homer in each abat. (He is not the only one!)— Liferphan
- RAJ ought to give Uncle Cholly the rest of the year off so he can clear his head of all that hot air. Maybe he can take Polanco with him who is the Barack Obama of the Phillies---constantly getting a free media pass for ineptitude.— Phillip Phan
- You guys should be in your glory these days! You're all a bunch of negative, grumbling, unhappy old ladies! I swear I've never heard more unhappy "fans" of a team that won a world series, played in another one, and won FIVE straight NL East Championships...Seems like you guys are happier when you really have something to complain about...Don'y worry, eventually the Phillies will return to a second rate team and you will all be so much happier!— drjimmy
- FF— VicM
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
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