Phillies fire three coaches
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Phillies fire three coaches
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
WASHINGTON — Moments after Game 162 ended, the Phillies commenced what could be a winter of change. First-base coach Sam Perlozzo will not be retained, GM Ruben Amaro Jr. announced at Nationals Park.
An hour later, the team revealed bench coach Pete Mackanin and hitting coach Greg Gross were not returning.
The three moves ostensibly create a chance for Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg to join the staff in 2013.
Coincidentally, team president David Montgomery traveled from Philadelphia and spent time meeting with Amaro and Manuel on Wednesday.
Perlozzo was a member of Manuel's staff for four seasons.
"It's definitely not what he did," Manuel said. "I look at him as a great teacher and tremendous coach. When you want to do some things, people on your staff, they're the ones who have to be let go or moved. That's the position it's in. It's something the organization felt we're going to go that way."
Manuel and Amaro were not available for comment following the announcement of Mackanin's and Gross' fates. Mackanin was bench coach for four years. Gross was hitting coach for two and a half seasons.
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Comments (49)
This is a move that Sandburg will make with ownership to have HIS coaches in place for 2014— putmeinnow- From Dubious Dubee's twitter feed: "I knew there was something wrong with these coaches back in spring training."
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— Quixote II - Gee, they can replace Sam with some coatroom clerk...all he ever did was collect batting gloves and helmets. And yet the head moron of all still remains..........Cholly. So doesn't matter who is on the coaching staff, you have an idiot at the helm— jingles
- The real risk is that a fearful Amaro becomes aggressive and further shows his (and his staff's) inability to identify talent and to sign appropriate contracts. You want BJ Upton who struggles to hit .250, or Bourn, who produced much less this year than last? I was shocked to learn that last year the Phillies let a minor-leaguer go for a sandwich, Brandon Moss -- he hit .287 with 21 home runs for the A's this year -- and the A's are in the play-offs, of course. Then there's Gio Gonzalez, who also played for the Phillies at one time; memories of Ferguson Jenkins. Talent evaluation is the big problem. You can play Dom Brown and John Mayberry all you like -- and pray Ryan Howard can invert his declining trends since 2008, but prayers aren't wins. And coaches are spectators. That's not the problem. — PeterG
- Good. Now get some manager level coaches, like they used to have, to cover for Unka Chollie's inability to adapt to anything. Or just get rid of Cholly.— HorshamGuy
- Chollie is not the problem nor is he the solution. He must grab whatever hair he has left when he looks to the bench and sees Wigginton and Nix and the other spare parts Amaro has falsely prized. Charley is like a guy at the blackjack table who has been given a 2 and 3 and tries to figure out how to beat the dealer with a cold-hard 10 showing. I respect him but he has to move on, as do the Phillies. The team is not going to get better betting on Utley, Howard, and Rollins. Amaro is disguising his failure with the coaches' firings. Tossing them overboard only buys time for himself. Coaches are incidental. It's players that count. Unless Montgomery and ownership man up, It could take years to resolve this mess. — PeterG
- Peter G, you have long been a Manuel apologist. Charlie is only effective when he as a lineup full of all-stars to pick from, then he sits back and watches the game from his front row seat. THAT is not "managing". — jman
- The Phillies have to make BIG moves, not incremental ones. Hire Sandberg, let him pick his coaches, and see what happens. And Amaro needs to be on notice. He skates by as like he's on teflon. All those bench players who contributed squat. Big contracts, ill-timed. And what exactly did he get for Victorino and Pence? Amaro should be posting comments on this website rather than supervising a team that led the league in attendance despite an inferior product. The Phillies will wither by complacency if they are not careful. David Montgomery, who calculates a tip carefully but would never criticize a waitress, is in charge. And he is too polite for the job.— PeterG
- If Dave Montgomery ok'ed these firings. He shouldve taken upon himself IF he had guts he wouldve FIRED the entire staff including Manuel. Left no one on the current staff. Then, again IF he had any guts taken Ryne Sandberg in the other room and gave him the manager's job. Then, after all of this gave Ruben Amaro his walking papers. Called Pat Gillick and asked him to come back RIGHT NOW. Gross shouldve been fired at the same time they fired Milt Thompson; Dubee like his name is clueless...lots of better, experienced, pitching coaches. Montgomery as well as all the fans in this posting should remember going into '13 that other teams, wink,wink have more progressive managers, coaches. Whether the managing owner yes thats Montgomery and the kid G.M. Amaro realize this I highly doubt this. Why did you think Davey Lopes left this organization last year. Would love to see Larry Bowa join this team. How about Mike Schmidt as a hitting coach. What else fans does the Montgomery regime need to do between Oct. 3 and the opening of spring training around 2nd week of February. O'yea, Amaro should take Jimmy Rollins, Mayberry and Ryan Howard together and make them in his heavest loudest voice tell them to go to winter ball. Jimmy with hitting, Mayberry and Howard figuring out how what is a ball and what is a strike. Apparently, all of the coaches they fired and had on the payroll for years didnt help these 3 players if not the starting lineup. Again, fans what else do I need to say!!— bartm
- After this season Dubee is sticking around? Whose photos does he have?— fischman
- Fire 'em all, I say.— scootch
- Bring back Davey Lopes. Sandberg can take Mackanin's job.— zeke128
- I think Manuel will announce his "retirement" presently.— TomO
- hard to believe in any purge of the staff that Dubee could survivie.
Of course, it's also hard to believe that Manuel could survive. Only in Montgomery's and Amaro's world is that possible.
If I were king, Amaro and Manuel would be the first two lined up against the wall. Then Dubee.
— advantasux - That's life.— 1danny
- This team's fate has been sealed when they brought Ed Wade back. Why do they need a hitting coach? no major league player listen to them.— joepir
- Perlozzo was just not aggressive. Samuel was too aggressive...but desperate times called for desperate measures. I'm glad Gross is gone but I have to say I'm pretty surprised that Pete Mackanin was let go. He was in the running for a few of the open big league managerial spots during the last off-season and by all accounts everyone really likes him. However if his departure opens the door for Sandberg, then I'm all for it! And on another roster note, if Wigginton is still on this team next year I will throw up.— bingbangbong
- Can Wheeler please be next? The biggest Bust of them all!— bk3131
- DUBEE DO should be next. If he's not the worst pitching coach in MLB, he's close to the bottom. Even when we had a decent bullpen last year, he would let our ACES wear themselves down by going deep into the game with a 4 or 5 run lead. And now we're paying the price.— misterhman
- You have to wonder what Dubee has on Amaro. Can't believe he's still on the staff.— benjyedwards
- no other g.m. in baseball has acquired less good young players over past 4 years than Clueless Rube -- because Rube has added exactly ZERO good young players to the orgnaization since taking over after 2008...while spending the highest budget in the league, Clueless Rube re-signed one quality player in the organization (Hamels) and added ZERO good young players from outside the organization..indeed 3 players whom he gave away for free (Voglesong, Brandon Moss and Grilli) are better than all but maybe 6 players on the Phils roster— warbiscuit
- Warbiscuit, why don't you ask philly.com to embed that thought up in the header, then you won't have to post it to EVERY thread on EVERY day. — jman
- Manuel, I think, is a better manager than people give him credit for, but his time may be past for the Phillies; for him to hang around for another season is strictly a sentimental decision, which is something Dave Montgomery is known for. DO he'll be here. Amaro should try to do the hard thing: Move On. But can Amaro be trusted? Look at the team under his GM stewardship. He is the guy who stuck the Phils with Ryan Howard's albatross contract, at least a year before he had to. The nickel-and-dime free agent pick-ups, who all contributed pennies. Signing big-contract pitchers at the expense of hitters. HIs refusal to take responsibility and his willingness to blame the players. In other businesses, he would be given the broom to sweep up before he left the building. He's an articulate dude (he did go to Stanford) but where are the results?— PeterG
- Manuel couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag. In 2008, the team had multiple power hitters, and Jimy Williams strategizing on the bench. Last season, they won 102 games because Manuel had a rotation of FOUR #1 starters and a rookie (Worley) who went 11-3.When not presented with top-notch players, Manuel wilts under the pressure to actually do something to "put his players in the best position to win". (HTML deleted) — jman
- Manuel couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag. In 2008, the team had multiple power hitters, and Jimy Williams strategizing on the bench. Last season, they won 102 games because Manuel had a rotation of FOUR #1 starters and a rookie (Worley) who went 11-3.
When not presented with top-notch players, Manuel wilts under the pressure to actually do something to "put his players in the best position to win".— jman - Ryne tyme NOW!!!
- Rube doing the "firings" is more absurd than replacement NFL referees evaluating referees -- rube is complete incompetent imebcile who has less ability to evaluate players or talent than 99% of the Nationals fans who watched a good team humiliate the collection of useless trash compiled for only $175 million per yr— warbiscuit
- I understand needing to make room for Sandberg.
But all three? And NOT Dubee or the manager?— VicM - Value of current players acquired or re-signed by Rube -- on a scale of 0 to 10 ("value" calculated based on current expectations of future performance in relation to salary; thus if player could not be traded unless majority of salary is assumed by Phils, this decreases value substantiallly):
Howard: 1 (no team would take him unless Phils paid almost all his remaining salary)
Rollins: 3 (Phils would have to pay substantial portion of salary
Polanco: 0
Mayberry: 1
Schneider: 0
Martinez:0
Frandsen: 2
Wigginton: 0
Nix: 0
Schierholz: 1
Orr: 0
Pierre: 2
Hamels: 8
Lee: 5 (burdened by salary)
Halladay: 1 (close to worthless right now)
Kendrick: 2
Papelbon: 2
Lindblom: 1
Horst: 2
Herndon:0
Contreras: 0
that's why I say Rube collects useless trash -- not a single player acquired by Rube currently has any substantial value other than Lee (and he is burdened by oversized too-long contract), and the only player even re-signed by Rube with any value is Hamels (Ruiz was under team control for past year and was not a Rube "re-signing")— warbiscuit - Accurate except for Roy. You'll get 15 from him next year. — dmn
- All those coaches could get jobs at the Inquirer if they're willing to work for peanuts.— Wilhelm Von Humboldt
- Amazing, they make changes after the last game and it's not enough for people already. They are showing changes ARE ahead for heaven's sake. Let them try to fix things and have some patience.....— chescoguy
- Don't forget, they actually started throwing out the trash a few days ago, when they removed Schneider from the 40-man to make room for a pitcher. — jman
- Ok boys, it's time for Pink Slips -- step right up when you hear your name: Diekman, Lindblom, Papelbon, Howard, Orr, Polanco, Wiggington, Martinez, Mayberry, Nix, Brown.— Al n SD
- Only 139 days until pitchers and catchers report!— parodox
- Chris "Wheels" Wheeler just flipped his wig. Why it wasn't but a fortnight ago he was extolling the virtues of the coaching staff on the Muntz as "really, really good guys."— Wilhelm Von Humboldt
- Muntz! LOL, that's good antique knowledge, Wilhelm (to paraphrase Tony Bruno). — jman
- Now convince Manuel that Howard can't hit lefthanders and should be platooned.— farley
- Pete Mac will easily land elsewhere -- possibly a manager's job at that. As for Gross, if he had any sense he'd be at the unemployment office now filling out papers because there's no way he'll be getting a job anytime soon (you want fries with that order?).— Al n SD
- Pete Mac is terrible. He interviewed for roughly 5-7 different manager jobs last year and none was offered to him. That says A LOT!!!
— Professor1982 - It only means he's not a good MANAGER. He could be a smart coach, but Charlie's just too stupid to implement suggestions.
Remember Eagles' coach Marion Campbell? Excellent coordinator, terrible head coach.
— jman - Oops, they just fired GG, and Mackanin as well. Dubee and Juan must have the dirty pictures.— drbob1
- Send Gross, Dubee and Samuel packing too --- I'll pay for their bus ticket. If Rube doesn't want to flush 'em all, at the very least send Gross and Samuel packing.— Al n SD
- @wilhelmvonhumbldt: I'll take a shot at the translation: 'Sandberg is working here next year, so we threw a dart at the wall and Perlozzo's balloon lost'.— drbob1
- Lol — dmn
-
"It's definitely not what he did," Manuel said. "I look at him as a great teacher and tremendous coach. When you want to do some things, people on your staff, they're the ones who have to be let go or moved. That's the position it's in. It's something the organization felt we're going to go that way."
If someone could translate this into english it will be greatly appreciated.
I thought Sam was the nimrod's drinking buddy?— Wilhelm Von Humboldt - Charlie is saying that the front office wants to bring new guys like Sandberg in so the current coaches have to go. He's saying the fired coaches were all very good at what they do and hopes they get jobs elsewhere. I thought Charlie was pretty clear and I think you're pretty narrow minded. — vafan
- Wow, the least culpable coach. GG, Dubee and Samuel are still here.— drbob1
- If they're serious about changes they should get rid of Juan Samuel as the third base coach. I've never seen a team run into so many outs on the basepaths. How many times were John Mayberry and Carlos Ruiz thrown out at home this year?— T-Money
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
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Bob Brookover
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