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Wednesday, July 8, 2009
Ricciardi wants the kind of talent “that makes you sit up and take notice"

Question. Would you make the following trade if you were Ruben Amaro Jr.? Cole Hamels, Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Paul Hagen, Jim Salisbury, Pete Mackanin, J.A. Happ, the Phanatic, your dog and Paul Bako for Roy Halladay?

Rumor talk gets a little hysterical, but we did learn some actual things today. The big question for the Phillies seems to be, would you trade Kyle Drabek? Charlie Manuel said he’d be reluctant to do that, and Amaro said there were some untouchables in the system. But the concept of untouchable is slippery. What if Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi said, “Hey Rube, Drabek for Doc straight up?” Who’d be untouchable then?
 
The big question for Ricciardi, the question that ultimately matters a whole lot, is what are you looking for? Here’s what he told the Inquirer today: he is seeking the type of talent “that makes you sit up and take notice. The clubs that have contacted us understand that.”
 
Ricciardi then declined to name the teams with whom he has spoken about Halladay, but he made it clear that he is looking for young, inexpensive, premium talent. 
           
Baseball sources said the Phillies have been in regular contact with Toronto about Halladay and are serious players in the sweepstakes to land him. Sources said that the two teams spoke Monday night, before Ricciardi publicly declared that he would listen to offers for the pitcher.
 
Ricciardi made it clear that he feels no urgency to deal his ace, and will only do so if he receives an offer that overwhelms him. More on this in the morning paper.
 
Did you see that the Jays released B.J. Ryan today? Call me crazy, but what if the Phillies signed Ryan and flipped him to Toronto for….Roy Halladay?

 

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Posted by Andy Martino @ 11:27 PM  Permalink | 23 comments
23
Comments   
Posted 08:16 AM, 07/10/2009
fan_in_jerusalem
Vic is not cheap, he's arbitration elegible and due for a HUGE raise, especially after making the all star (I mean most popular) game. Also Werth is making something like $3 million this year and next,not cheap when you can get prospects for 1/2 a million a year. Donald isn't polaying now because he's injured, I agree. WHat I said is we aren't playing him at 3B at all, he's been playing SS in LV so we obviously aren't grooming him to replace Feliz. People, learn to read
Posted 08:29 PM, 07/09/2009
KMG
There is no untouchable on any team- everyone is available for a price. For example, what if the Cardinals offered Pujols for Howard straight up? Bye bye, Ryan. To Murph's question, if the Jays said Halladay for Drabek straight up, you have to make that move.
Posted 03:33 PM, 07/09/2009
Todd Pratt
fan_in_jerusalem: Please learn to read what I said. I wrote if we take Rios or Wells we would have to give up less. They would want Vitorino because he is young or Werth because is a free agent in another year. I don't believe this team is totally trying to fold it up in the next 2 years.
Posted 03:02 PM, 07/09/2009
robm0202
FIJ, they are very interested in Werth because he is cheap this year and next year. I for one wouldn't think of trading him because we don't have a proven RH bat to take his middle of the order spot. Also, the reason why Donald isn't playing is because he had minor knee surgery. If it wasn't for that he would be starting at LV right now. He is currently doing rehab in GCL and will start once he is healthy.
Posted 01:48 PM, 07/09/2009
fan_in_jerusalem
Todd, again read what the Toronto Gm said. he wants young CHEAP players. Neither Vic nor Werth fit this definition. Werth is a FA after next year and Vic is arbitration for two more years and can expect a HUGE raise. This is why they want either Brown or Taylor. As for us taking either of their white elephants, how do we pay for them? We are teh Phillies, not the yankees. We have a budget not the entire US Treasury.
Posted 12:37 PM, 07/09/2009
Todd Pratt
If the Phillies took on Wells or Rios as part of the deal, I don't think they would have to give up as much. They would however probably have to give up Werth or more likely Victorino. I know the Phillies could afford the both of them next year but could they afford the both of them this year? It would be a risky proposition because you would be messing with the team chemistry, but this is probably the only way keep, Drabek and Taylor. What to do............
Posted 11:59 AM, 07/09/2009
fan_in_jerusalem
Pedro has a team option for next year which we will pick up. He's shown us what he can do when not hurt. I'd actually think of offering him an extension. Donald is not a 3B. We aren't even playing him there in AAA. He'll replace Brunlett as all around utility guy if he's not traded and that's all. I have no problem dealing Drabek for Halladay (as part of the deal obviously). However, if we can get Duke (the only pitcher the Bucs have who I want) for cheap it may be worth it. As for the Cardinals, forget it. Halladay has clearly said he wants to go to a winner if he doesn't sty in Toronto. He also has said he has only contempt for teams who buy chamionships (yankees, Boston(?)) If we get halladay we're looking at Hamels, Halladay, Happ, Blanton and whichever rookie wins the #5 spot (unless Moyer comes back-again). If not, we're looing at Hamels, Myers (1 year Arbi contract) Happ, Blanton rookie/Moyer. Since the latter is what we had this year to begin with, getting Halladay seems a no brainer no matter what the price IMO
Posted 10:23 AM, 07/09/2009
rhcjr2
I agree look at the Jays needs they have OF prospects and OF's, Scutaro is having a career year so they want young SS prospect a catching prospect and prolly 2 pitching, read Drabek and either Carrasco or Carpenter. I think 4 prospects get it done 5 gets us a throw in utility infielder like Jason Donald to replace that waste of space Bruntlett. If they can keep Taylor and only have to give up Drabek I can live with that. Remember Feliz contract ends this year and you will have to fill 3b next year which Donald was being groomed to do. So now you live with Pedro for another year or two.
Posted 10:02 AM, 07/09/2009
Your Majesty
Martino makes a valid point: this is a negotiation. If the total price is low enough, then Drabek is gone. Labeling him "untouchable" doesn't make him so -- it just establishes a limit on the Phillies' acceptable price.
Posted 09:20 AM, 07/09/2009
zwarte piet
why arent we dealing with the pirates? they have been practically giving away their best players in trades for the past few years.. atlanta has stolen mclouth and gonzalez from them, nyy stole nady and marte, boston stole bay. why is it that the best amaro can do with that team is swap backup catchers (jaramillo for paulino)? right now, there are three pitchers on the pirates i would like to see on this team - duke, maholm, grabow. i would make an offer on halladay, one that would contain plenty of talent but fall short of "blowing him away". then i would tell the jays gm, i am pursuing these pirates pitchers.. the jays gm knows whats up - that the pirates give away talent. either that entices him to take the reasonable offer for halladay or not.. if not, then you can go after these talented pirates pitchers.. i swear i could do a better job than amaro as gm.
Posted 09:09 AM, 07/09/2009
mick314
Nonsense to include Kendrick in any trade talk. He has NO value. Best way for him to get mention is to change his first name to Taylor. Donald value remains marginal as he has had knee surgery and outcome is in question so far. Marson has upped his average to .290's and his defense has improved under Hupp tuteledge. Carrasco has a touch of Steve Blass Disease which marginalizes his value. Carpenter is looking great and you have to wonder about Savery, a Bruce Ruffin type. Keep Drabek, but throw in his dad an Wheels in any package.
Posted 08:25 AM, 07/09/2009
EL Zorro
The Cardinals don't have the prospects to land Halladay, but if they do, they immediately become the team to beat in the NL. Imagine a rotation of Halladay, Carpenter, Wainright and Loshe. The addition of DeRosa to the lineup made them a pretty good and more complete hitting team. But they are a long shot to land Halladay. They just traded Chris Perez, their closer of the future, to Cleveland for Mark DeRosa. They can’t keep draining the minor league system any further. The other teams supposedly in the hunt are the usual suspects: the Yankees, Angels and Boston, plus the Phillies, Mets, Brewers and Dodgers. I think the Jays prefer to trade him to the NL. No way they would trade him to Boston or the Yankees. According to reports, Halladay told a close friend that he’d be willing to waive his no-trade clause to Boston, New York and Philadelphia, because he prefer a team that can win now. If that is true, that leaves Philadelphia as the most likely trade partner. Then the asking price won’t be as stiff. They need a catcher of the future (Marson), and SS of the future (Donald). They will ask for one of our untouchalbe. Throw in D. Brown and a pitching prospect like Carrasco, Savery or Carpenter and it could be done. Heck, they need relief pitching also and we need an extra RH bat. Include Madson, instead of one the prospects and they can dump Millar or Bautista on us. I know, Madson is pretty good in the setup role, but relief pitching is easier to find than a pretty good starter.
Posted 04:14 AM, 07/09/2009
JimG
The Blue Jays aren't trading Halladay for 3 players, let alone only 1. They want 4-5 prospects and they want some top prospects. Drabek for Halladay? Get real. The Blue Jays would never do that.
Posted 02:17 AM, 07/09/2009
robm0202
@Buddude, that is not necessarily true. Dom Brown is almost as high as Drabek on our untouchable list so I think if we concede and include him with some of our other top prospects (Carrasco, Marson, Donald, Mayberry, Stutes, etc), we could get a deal done.
Posted 02:12 AM, 07/09/2009
robm0202
@yahmpy: I saw the same thing on mlbtr but I wouldn't read too much into it, Halladay is gonna command a lot of money and I don't think the Cardinals could take on his salary, plus Halladay would have to waive his NTC to go to the Cardinals. A close friend of his said the other day that he would definitely waive it for Boston, NY, and Philly. St. Louis I would think he would not because they aren't a legitimate NL contender. I think he would waive it for either LA team though. St. Louis certainly has the prospects to get a deal done but I really don't think it makes sense for them, the NL Central is very weak and I don't think they could beat any of the top teams.
Posted 02:06 AM, 07/09/2009
Buddude
In most "baseball analysts and experts" opinions, it is a 50% chance the Jays part with Halladay. That said, the "experts" also say Drabek must be in the package. If you want a player of Halladay's quality you're gonna have to part with the best on the farm. If you're not willing to part with the best on the farm - Drabek, Brown, whomever, then don't think the Jays will fork over Halladay. You can't have any untouchables in a situation like this. Carrasco will not cut it as a replacement for Drabek. However much I would love to see the Phils land Halladay, you must ask yourself "Am I willing to trade the best in the system (Drabek and friends) to get a guy who only has 1.5 years left on his contract?" If your answer is yes, then you have reason to support getting Halladay. If you answer is no, forget your stupid little Carrasco/Donald/Kendrick/Joe Schmoe packages, cause it's not gonna happen without Drabek.
Posted 01:23 AM, 07/09/2009
frankenslade
All this stuff I'm reading and being told about the need for the Phils to give up 5 top prospects or whatever, but if the Jays really want to deal Halladay, the price will be dictated by the competition for him. Who else can offer any degree of prospects? Is there really a team willing to give up their equivalent of Drabek, Taylor, and Happ, or will Halladay end up going to the team that gives up one TOP prospect who's nearly ready, a prospect who's in single A, and a serviceable young major leaguer?
Posted 01:20 AM, 07/09/2009
yahmpy
The Cardinals supposedly said look at our minor-league rosters and told Toronto circle any five names you want. It looks like it's going to take 5 guys, and Toronto is taking the team with the five best (and hoping Halladay waves his NTC to go with the team that had the best package). http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/cardinals-have-real-interest-in-halladay.html
Posted 12:56 AM, 07/09/2009
robm0202
Buddude, I don't want to trade Drabek, but it wouldn't be just 2 years. Halladay will sign an extension with the team he gets traded to because he will have to waive his NTC. So, it would probably be 5 or so years of Halladay. Anyway, I don't want to move Drabek but I would be open to dealing Dom Brown and some of our other top prospects. I would be for a deal consisting of Brown, Carrasco, Marson, Donald, and Kendrick/Stutes. They are saying it will probably take a 5 to 1 deal to get Halladay and those are some quality guys there and it will allow us to keep Drabek, Taylor, and Knapp.
Posted 12:53 AM, 07/09/2009
mainlinephan
If you trade the farm for him, better hope he doesn't get run over by a truck or some other freak accident or injury. I know, I'm a pessimistic fan, but I ask you, other than the beautiful WS win last year and in 1980, hasn't this team has been snake-bit with bad luck? I date back to the collapse of '63 and have seen it all over the years with the Phils. Nothing surprises me.
Posted 12:27 AM, 07/09/2009
Buddude
Gotta put Drabek out there.......or theres gonna be no Halladay in philly this year and no parade.....however Drabek is the future so you gotta pick - two awesome years, contending for the title now, or ten years being in contention for the division title and playoffs? ill take drabek and the ten.......
Posted 12:00 AM, 07/09/2009
frankatlasalle
How about Eric Bruntlett and Kyle Kendrick for Halladay? Of course I'm kidding, but I'm sick of all the stupid things I am reading on these comment boards already...
Posted 11:48 PM, 07/08/2009
Mark1npt
You are crazy.......
About Andy Martino
Andy Martino is in his first season on the Phillies beat. A former New York City public school teacher and graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, he previously wrote for the New York Daily News, where he covered baseball and worked with the award-winning investigative sports "I-team."
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