Phils Crush Cards
Yes, the Philliles still can hit.
Phils Crush Cards
Todd Zolecki
Ryan Howard watches his three-run home run in the sixth inning against the St. Louis Cardinals.
So, yeah, the Phillies still can hit.
They struggled this week in Florida to put runs on the board, but had no such problems last night in a 20-2 victory over the Cardinals. Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Pat Burrell hit back-to-back-to-back home runs, just the seventh time in Phillies history that has happened.
The others:
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Sept. 30, 1977, vs. Montreal, second inning, Greg Luzinski, Richie Hebner, Garry Maddox.
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Aug. 17, 1985, vs. Chicago, seventh inning. Juan Samuel, Glenn Wilson, Mike Schmidt.
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July 26, 1987, vs. Atlanta, eighth inning. Milt Thompson, Von Hayes, Schmidt.
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April 28, 1999, vs. Cincinnati, first inning. Scott Rolen, Rico Brogna, Ron Gant.
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May 4, 2004, vs. St. Louis, fifth inning, Bobby Abreu, Jim Thome, Burrell.
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May 18, 2004, vs. Los Angeles, fourth inning, Abreu, Burrell, Thome.
Strange that hadn't happened before 1977.
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Keep your eyes open this weekend. Cardinals reliever Russ Springer hit Howard with a pitch in the eighth inning and was ejected by home plate umpire Larry Vanover. Charlie Manuel hinted that he believed that Springer threw at Howard intentionally.
"Ryan stands way off the plate," he said. "That's all I've got to say."
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In the Phillies Notebook, the Phillies and Kyle Lohse talk about their differences of opinion.
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You asked. Rudy Seanez answered. Here's Seanez's Q&A.
Comments (16)
I can't wait to see what the offense does when it REALLY gets smoking hot.— bski- MARK1NPT: I've run several marathons, so I know about being somewhere along the spectrum between normal wear and tear and an injury. I'm also keenly aware of being day to day, of having it one day and not the next, of running with minor problems, and the like. As elemental as this may sound, I've always felt that the body needs to be gradually built up and maintained to perform, regardless of the sport. The type, intensity, duration, etc...of training varies according to the sport, but a gradual progression is the proper way to go, especially if you have any hope of avoiding injury. I'm wondering how you feel about pitch counts. I think they're ok early on, BUT I don't agree with a fixed 100-pitch limit for the duration of a pitcher's career. When a guy is young, it makes sense to bring him along slowly, but gradually you've got to slowly increase the workload. Otherwise you end up with what we have now where very few pitchers are allowed to go too far beyond 100 pitches and they are not allowed to do it very often. To make an analogy, I didn't run 26.2 miles the first time I laced up the shoes. I started out small with 4 mile runs and 20 mile weeks. I gradually built up to 20 mile runs and 50 mile weeks. I don't see any reason why a guy's pitch count can't be increased gradually over the course of several years--say 100, 105, 110, 115 or something along those lines. My point is that a guy will never be able to go beyond 100 pitches consistently unless he is trained to do so. I will never be able to complete a 20 mile run if I limit myself to 10 mile runs. Gradually, over time, I've trained myself to go 12, then 14, then 16, etc...The bottom line is you can only do what you've trained to do. If I've only trained to run 10 miles, I'll only be able to run 10 miles. The same goes for a pitcher who has always been held to 100 pitches, as far as I see it.— bski
- MARK1NPT: I meant to include innings pitched per season as part of the discussion, but I ran out of room. The same goes for that, as well regarding a gradual build up. For the most part, I think teams do a better job with that. Although they monitor the number of innings a guy throws, they do want to see and allow an increase from one year to the next. Teams are aware that if they increase the number of innings thrown too much from one year to the next a guy stands a good chance of getting hurt(or at least reducing his effectiveness the following year), yet they still want pitchers to increase their innings pitched. Why doesn't the same logic hold for number of pitches thrown per start?— bski
- MARK1NPT: While we're on this topic, what do you think about the notion that the time spent on the mound or the duration of the game is as important as the number of pitches thrown? We all know that years ago there were many, many more complete games thrown. That was the job of the starting pitcher. It was his game. He started it. He finished it. We also know that pitch counts didn't come into play back then. Obviously, the first thing about it is that pitchers were able to throw more back then BECAUSE THEY THREW MORE. I'm sure you're aware, however, of the the theory that pitchers can't go as long in games or throw as many pitches now because today's games are so much longer, time wise. Robin Roberts may have thrown a 160 pitch complete game, but it was only 2hrs 15mins, whereas now a complete game usually takes about one hour longer. I seem to think there is something to this.— bski
- MARK1NPT: Listen, I don't mean to steal you away from here or anything, but you should check out reclinergm.com. They have Phillies posts over there that stay up for days and weeks at a time. I like to have more in depth conversations and I find it difficult to do here because it is a daily blog. Most days Zo puts up at least two topics and you end up losing things from the previous thread. Sixerzguy and I have an ongoing conversation over there.*******Actually, I'll invite everyone here to visit reclinergm.com. You'll see posts from me all over the baseball topics, and the basketball ones, too.— bski
- MARK1NPT: Sorry about the barrage of posts. I had some time today and I just kind of took off.— bski
- Maybe you guys need to get a room...LOL J/K. Interesting thoughts but have you also considered the number of pitches thrown by the starter and relievers in warmup? That adds a significant number to pitch count. Hope the offense has come back to life, they were just awesome last night. A 36 minute half inning, WOWSERS!— jimmymack
- I was at the 20 run barrage at CBP. Whole different sound to the ballpark last night. LOL! Loved the response for the 2nd baseman who wound up pitching the 9th. Wasn't he the only *pitcher* to get a 1-2-3 inning? Maybe LaRussa will put him in the rotation. LOL! Speaking of LaRussa.....How funny was that carnival of ejections!— Norma
- I hope this series doesn't deteriorate into a beanball festival. Springer threw at Howard, Seanez threw behind one of theirs in response. It's over and done with. Let's move on and pound on Lohse today.*****JIMMYMACK: No room required, just continuing a discussion Mark and I started last night under the "Everybody Loves Larry" topic.— bski
- I find it interesting that Ron Gant is on the list of Phils who have hit back to back to back home runs. I didn't realize he hit as many home runs for us as he did(17hr in 516ab 1999, 20hr in 343ab in 2000). All I remember about Gant is that he popped up at least twice a game and Harry or Wheels would say something like, "Oh, he just got under it." I never saw one guy pop out so many times in my life.— bski
- I remember the Rolen/Brogna/Gant home runs...Gant's was an inside-the-parker. I also remember that the Phillies lost that game...— chriszak
- That was a tough one. Watching the game, I could see why we didn't go after Lohse in the offseason. No way we could have a pitcher like that in our rotation, right?— bski
- bski...I'm married and I only dig chicks so we can't get a room!......really I can tell you that pitch counts started with the advent of organized sports med programs like those of Dr. James Andrews in AL and others who think there are fatigue limits to tissues and try to set limits for those tissues. I have argued against pitch counts for years. We have dumbed down our pitchers like we have our classrooms. If you train tissues to throw 100X then over time, that's all they'll be able to throw. I believe, if you train a pitcher for endurance and they have the tissue makeup to be a pitcher (which you find out over many years of pitching as a youngster) then you should have no problem throwing 150- even 200 pitches in any given game. We are not developing pitchers anymore, we are developing throwers who can go 100X and that's it. The reason for this is everybody wants to do what they want to do whhether they have the body for it or not. Scouts look for strong arms in catchers and rightfielders then turn them into pitchers. 3 years later they have bone spurs in their elbows or Tommy John, all because they weren't weeded out along the way in childhood. It is a tremendous fallacy to continue down the road of pitch counts and does a disservice to the game. However it is now entrenched into the culture and the business of baseball and it is going to be very difficult to get it changed.— Mark1npt
- MARK: That's how I feel about the whole situation. I was just wondering if I was missing something. Thanks for your take. I have a lot of ideas rolling around in my head and I like to work them out when I can.— bski
- bski, you must not have watched the very beginning of the game. They announcers pointed out that Lohse has thrived under the pitching coach of the Cards. If we had signed him, he wouldn't have had that, would he? In addition, don't you think maybe he's trying extra hard after he felt he was disrespected during the off season. If we had signed him, he wouldn't be feeling that. And come on, we offered him 3 years for 21 million, seven a year. He signed for 4.5. So not like we tried.— Deb in Dixie
- DEB: I watched the very beginning and heard the announcers. I know we made him a 3 year offer. I was just venting frustration that another ex-Phil comes back to bite us, like Barajas did with Toronto a few weeks ago. It never seems to fail that guys who played lousy for us--not that Lohse was lousy--always play well against us after they leave. Sometimes these guys turn it around with their new team, sometimes they continue to play lousy. Regardless, they always hurt us.— bski
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