Phils and Hamels likely to talk long-term deal in spring training
The one-year deal is done for Cole Hamels. The $15 million he'll be paid in 2012 represents a $5.5 million raise over what he received last season and is the same exact amount the Phillies will pay second baseman Chase Utley for the third straight season.
Phils and Hamels likely to talk long-term deal in spring training
Bob Brookover, Inquirer Baseball Columnist
Ruben Amaro Jr. said he hopes to figure out something long term with Cole Hamels. (Jeff Roberson/AP)
The one-year deal is done for Cole Hamels. The $15 million he'll be paid in 2012 represents a $5.5 million raise over what he received last season and is the same exact amount the Phillies will pay second baseman Chase Utley for the third straight season.
In other words, the 28-year-old lefty is being nicely compensated as the youngest ace in the Phillies' dream rotation.
A more challenging contract negotation for Hamels and the Phillies lies ahead.
After negotiating the one-year deal with Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. Tuesday, Hamels' agent John Boggs said that he will likely be in Clearwater at some point during spring training in an effort to negotiate a long-term deal for his client who can become a free agent after the 2012 season.
"Ruben wanted to proceed in this fashion, and then discuss a multi-year deal later," Boggs said. "I anticipate discussing a long-term deal for Cole as we get into spring training."
Amaro said talks with Hamels "probably" will take place in spring training and confirmed that he wanted to first negotiate a one-year deal for the lefthander.
"We thought it was the right thing to do for us," Amaro said. "It allowed us to establish the one-year value for Cole and I think we did that in an amicable and equitable way. Hopefully we can figure something out long term at the appropriate time."
There is no guarantee, of course, that the two sides will be able to complete such a deal. It's fair to assume, however, that any long-term deal for Hamels will at the very least be worth $20 million per year and cover at least five years. Roy Halladay is making $20 million a year on a deal that will likely cover four years and Cliff Lee's deal averages $24 million over five years.
"I'm always optimistic, but when you get into the real specifics and minutae of a deal, there are usually road blocks going forward," Boggs said. "I think Cole wants to be treated fairly and compensated for where he is at in his career. I've always respected Ruben and hopefully we can try to accomplish that long-term deal. I can't predict what will happen in the end, but hopefully the value they put on Cole is what we feel is appropriate."
Boggs said the Halladay and Lee deals are both fair comparables for Hamels.
"I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that Cole is an elite pitcher," Boggs said. "We'll look at what elite pitchers have received in the past and hopefully he'll get what we think he is worth."
Amaro said the Phillies will continue to negotitate with right fielder Hunter Pence in an effort to avoid a salary arbitration hearing next month. The two sides were required to submit salary numbers with the league office at the 1 p.m. deadline Tuesday. Those numbers were not immediately available.
Comments (41)
maybe just maybe the reason for this one year deal at this juncture might have something to do with the luxury tax threshold! if that's the case then let it pan out. two days ago everyone was saying sign him don't let him go to arb. well they did that! you have to look at the big picture. once they signed him to one year now they can focus on pence. after him they'll structure a long term deal with hamels. this one year deal is the first installment on a longer deal that makes everyone happy. especially the stinkin worrywort reporters fueling this hamels is going to the dodgers or yankees after this season mania. get a life phila.com reporters— Ryne Duren- An elite pitcher who's never won more than 15 games in a season, a CY award and who is coming off elbow surgery with a degenerating joint condition, isn't as "elite" as his agent may think. Phils were smart to do the one year. If he doesn't have it together by the All Star break, you don't sign him long term, you let the marketplace decide if anyone else wants to take the risk. I bet the marketplace says "no way". If on the other hand, he's pitching lights out with no apparent ill effects, like maintaining the velocity on his fastball and his location of his pitches, then you sign him. But even then it's a bigger risk than with Halladay, Lee, Lincecum and others. They haven't had surgeries for loose bodies in the elbow. Their elbow joints are not degenerating at the same rate as Hamels'. Quite a risk long term. What if Howard can't pay for the next 5 years of his contract and the Phils still have to pay him $20 mil/per? Are you willing to hamstring the team by having that happpen with Hamels, too? A much higher likelihood.— Mark1npt
- stop looking at wins for idividual players. Look at ERA, WHiP, Ks, BB, IP and you'll notice that COle is in the ACE class, but not in Doc, Lee class--yet! Question is, will he be in next 2-4 years— jeff gross
- I don't buy the California connection thing with Hamels and him moving on for that reason. The crowded ballpark in Philly is an experience only so many players experience and it's a big plus for a guy who plays. It's a matter of pride for a guy to know he's financially appreciated like the Johnny come lately superstar pitchers that came on board after him. For the fans who have a hard time about 2009, understand that he pitched 260+ innings in '08 to get to be World Series MVP and the arm just wasn't responding after a full season then playoffs in 2009. He said he would be glad when the season is over, but the reason was fatigue. It was still a respectable season, just not to his standard. If we lose this young pitcher next year it will haunt us.— escapedcamden4monterey
- Jmack, Wins are not very useful when evaluating starting pitchers. Which explains these Cy Young award winners:
- 2009 AL: Greinke (16 wins)
- 2009 NL: Lincecum (15 wins)
- 2010 AL: Hernandez (13 wins)
Hamels compares very well to Carlton at the same age, and has in fact been one of the best pitchers of the past few years.— schmenkman - vvvmetallicavvv, I never said they should let Hamels walk. My point is he shouldn't be paid as an elite pitcher because, as much as you don't want to see it, he isn't in that category. You can try and downplay his record because you know it doesn't look good for your argument. If he had won 20 games, I'm assuming you would be using that on your side. You can't have it both ways. Also, if he is as dominant as you say, then why is his highest finish in a CY Young race 5th? And he only did that once. All the other Hamels supporters love to cry about run support but don't point out the games he won when he wasn't his sharpest. Over the course of roughly 35 starts, every pitcher will win games they didn't deserve to and vice versa. You want people to believe he had to pitch shutouts every night to grind out 14 wins on a team that won a franchise record 102. Poor Cole.— Jmack228
- biscuit, just curious -- how do you reconcile your rants with the highest scoring offense in the league once Utley returned?— schmenkman
- He will not sign with the Yankees and more than likely the Phillies will not be able to afford him. I listened today to Francessa on WFAN while coming back from a meeting today in New York. In 2014 there is killer luxury tax coming in play. Right now you have salaries of five players totaling over $93 million in 2014 (Lee:25,Halladay 20,Rollins 11,Howard25 and Papelbon 12.5. Add Hamels at say $18 million (using Jered Weaver of the Angles as a comparable) and you are now looking at over $111 million for SIX players. Then you add the rest of the 34 players you have on your roster (the tax is for 40 man rosters supposedly) and now you are looking at over $180 million. The Phillies would then lose money from a league disbursement fund (Valued at $15 million which is what the Yankees and Red Sox each receive)and a punitive tax which means the Phillies would lose even more money. That is the reason why the Yankees traded Montero for Pineda. The Phillies will now have to be like the Eagles, Sixers and Flyers and start to think in terms of cap dollars and how they are distributed amongst the players on the team!— phillies2012
- Great Post. I was watching Francessa too. If a team goes over the cap one year the Luxury Tax is 22% . Two years in a row it goes up to 48%. Every mil over costs an extra $480.000.
— DUDESKINS - yes naive losers, since you're so astounded by my bold predictions, I can make the following prognostication with ease: 1. Hamels will not re-sign with Phis (his agent has made this point clear as day for past 2 yrs), 2. Hamels will win a lot more games than Lee and Halladay over next many yrs (duh --he's much younger and has just as good stuff), 3. the ruben amaro method (overpay for a couple of starting pitchers, fill rest of roster with garbage) will NOT bring a championship (duh -- teams built on a couple of pitchers, and not only a weak offense but also no depth or balance or bench, cant win in October --the few really weak hitting teams to win like 2010 Giants, 1985 Cardinals and 1989 Dodgers had at least depth and bench players and a manager and players who could play small-ball)— warbiscuit
- Fair deal, and hopefully they can work out an extension during spring training.
Hamels vs. Carlton through age 27:
Carlton.. 104-72 (.591), 124 ERA+, 1.217 WHIP, 3.0 BB/9, 7.0 K/9
Hamels.... 74-54 (.578), 126 ERA+, 1.141 WHIP, 2.3 BB/9, 8.5 K/9
(ERA+ is ERA vs. the league; 124 means 24% better than the league)— schmenkman - let this snot-nose little ca yuppy who is mentally weak and quit on us in 2009 ws , walk after this year and collect the 2 #1 picks,— VANIMALS SWEATY GOGGLES
What did Cliff and Roy do against the cards in the playoffs? What did Cole do? Look it up— DixonBunz- Let's see what Cole has that Neither Lee or Halladay have... Oh that's right a ring, and a NLCS MVP. Hamels is always around 20 wins per season. I know that's the benchmark. But, the last 2 years in particular more than a few of his losses were a direct result of the run support. I'm not saying he's better than Lee or Halladay. These contracts are based on potential for the future projection of said players output. Cole has already proven himself capable, and continues to improve. I don't see how he shouldn't get what he deserves from them. I am totally with team Hamels on this... "IDGAF about your Luxury tax Ruben!"— SeenGreen
- Not worth Halladay money. Too many breakdowns. He's young and will get enough to live on forever.
— Ssteve115 - Cole would get 6 years/$140 million in FA. No way the Phillies get him for less than 5 years /$115-120M.— dankil13
- I don't think Hamels is going to sign before the season. The Phillies probably won't offer him too much because he is younger than 35 and isn't on the downside of his career. Then he'll leave for some team that has a future where he isn't counted on to do both the pitching and the hitting.— jtj06
- Cole is an elite pitcher that deserves top dollar, and he will get it, hopefully from the Phils.— pizzzmoe
- Cole is an elite pitcher that deserves top dollar, and he will get it, hopefully from the Phils.— pizzzmoe
Comment removed.- If anyone read the comments from Cole Hamel's agent, We look forward to free agency in 2012, pitching is always a commodity that is in high demand. If you think Hamel's is going to sign for less than 6 years and less than Lee money, RAJ/Phillies Fans are crazy. Lets face it, even though he has yet to win 20 games nor has he won a Cy Young, some team (remember the Nationals) will open the bank for Hamels. He is a West Coast guy who will be a free agent when a new owner in LA is chomping at the bit for star power. I'm just not getting any good feelings about the future with Cole.— drhoffman
- When are people going to stop looking at wins and losses as the end-all-say-all for pitching success?? There's no more ancient stat in all of sports I can't say it enough. Jmack228 -- Felix Hernandez won a Cy Young last year with 13 wins. Ya know why? It's called run support, and Cole got about a full run less per game than Doc last year, along with most pitchers in baseball. Lee was below .500 in W-L before he came here, was that his fault? You can look up the numbers for yourself, they don't lie.
- Jmack, you obviously have no idea what the most important stats to signify an "elite" pitcher are. Wins has NOTHING to do with it. Hamels had a comparable ERA (Under 3, which is ridiculous), a better WHIP, better BAA. I'm not saying he should be paid more than Halladay and Lee, but he is no doubt on par with them, and he's also 4-5 years younger, giving him even more value, and he'll likely get even better. Sure it was the same offense hitting for Halladay, but they didn't perform the same way. There are plenty of advanced stats out there to prove that. He deserves the contract because he's had two straight spectacular seasons, and shows no signs of dropping off. Amaro will lock him up, there's no way they let this guy walk.— vvvmetallicavvv
- jmack -- you're apparently ignorant --do a game by game log past 2 yrs and see how many games Hamels lost 1-0 or 2-1 and how many times Chollie pulled him in late inning only to bring in the dregs of bullpen to blow game --yeah go do a game by game log -- any half intellignt g.m. builds for future, but clueless rube overpays for past performance (Howard, Ibanez, Polnco, Blanton, etc), lets go all future talent and is left wiht an aging team wiht no future ...after Cole leaves Phils will be left with 2 good but aging starters and a whole lot of garbage for the rest of 25 man roster— warbiscuit
- Give it a rest you angry loon. Seriously, is your life so horrible that you need to continually post your idiotic rants constantly? — SFPhillyphan
- Are the Phillies excluded from the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 MLB drafts? Get back to me with an answer.
— mwcnabb - Cole will likely set the new standard for pitchers. He will get CC money, but for a longer period than he signed for in his first deal with the Yanks. From memory, I think he got 6 years.— tr88
- Seengreen, how is it that Halladay avg's 20 wins the last 2 years with the same "offensive slumps and ineptitue" team behind him that Hamels has? How did Lee manage to win 17 games after getting off to a horrific start? Why are there so many Hamels apologists on here? While I recognize that he has been a very good pitcher, he certainly hasn't been great. Let's say the Phils were bringing in a free agent pitcher who only won 15 games once in his career (going on 5 years now) would you still be saying he's worth 20 mill a year? I doubt it. People love to point out his WS year (going on 4 years) as evidence that he deserves a big contract but they have amnesia when it comes to his pathetic 2009 postseason.— Jmack228
- palmyra --you seem to make the same mistake as dumb rube --irrlevant what players have done in the past, what's important is what they're going to do in future..there is little doubt that Hamels will win a lot more over next many yrs than Lee and Halladay— warbiscuit
- Hey whiskerbiscuit, since you're apparently an idiot savant who can see into the future and know all that is going to happen with the Phillies please explain to me why you continue to be a fan? — SFPhillyphan
- Cole will win a lot more games, and awards, and when he goes to a new tam, rings, over next 10 yrs than Halladay and Lee— warbiscuit
- 15 in 2012. Rising above 20 at the end of a 4 year extension beyond 2012.— mikemaddog
- Doc has a decade of excellence. Lee has a Cy Young. While Hamels is an ace, I wouldn't group him with Doc and Lee yet. If he repeats his 2011 performance in 2012, open the wallet!— palmyra21
- You dont pay them for the past. — tr88
- I'd give him Halladay and Lee money because in 5 years, those guys will be gone and Hamels will be a bargain at that price and hopefully just as good as those guys. I'm glad the Phillies are serious about keeping Hamels and I think he'll stay if the money is comparable.— AvoidSundanceVacations
- Not sure why you have to pay Hamels an amount equal to Halladay & Lee. They both have Cy Young Awards. Cole is a fantastic pitcher but he does not. $15M/$18M sounds about right with a huge bonus and maybe a salary bump built in if he does win a Cy Young Award.— habitualloser
- He hasn't won 20 yet not because of his pitching. He could have easily won 22 the last 2 years if not for the offensive slumps and ineptitude throughout the season. He deserves to paid as one of the top 10 pitchers.That's it.— SeenGreen
- Considering he's the only "Ace" with a World Series ring and NLCS and World Series MVP awards, I don't think he'll settle in the $15M/$18M. He's also younger than the other 2 and has been the Phils property the entire time. I wouldn't anticipate a discount nor would I expect him to take a contract for less than 5 years unless he wants to leave the Phils at some point. Despite what they told Halladay, they can apparently do a deal for a pitcher for longer than 3 years. They proved it with Lee and Papelbon.— kmon
- At some point in time, you cannot lock out younger talented pitchers. Halladay is not young any longer nor is Cliff Lee. Hamels needs to have an Ace-like season prior to being paid that kind of money. Regardless of emotion, RAJ has to look into the reality of someone who has back/elbow issues and has yet to win 20 games in a season.— drhoffman
- Doesn't make any sense to me why this could not have been a completed extension. Hamels isn't worth the world. He deserves somewhere between 15/18 million per year in the extension. But, damn he's the most important piece for the future of the rotation. They have to re-sign, extend Halladay after this season too.— SeenGreen
- Exactly.
— EL Zorro
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