Phillies will wait to talk to Hamels. Does that mean they want to trade him? No.
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Phillies will wait to talk to Hamels. Does that mean they want to trade him? No.
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
(Ben Margot/AP)
MILWAUKEE — The Phillies have not yet engaged in formal negotiations with Cole Hamels and his agent John Boggs. Hamels is under control for 2012 and the Phillies have other holes for 2012 that Ruben Amaro Jr. says he will address first.
"We have some other fish to fry right now," Amaro said.
Both sides want a deal. Amaro has long spoken of his pride in Hamels and desire to keep a homegrown ace (and the youngest star on the oldest team in baseball). Boggs has previously talked about Hamels' affinity for Philadelphia and his willingness to make a deal. Hamels has never contradicted that.
Of course, the longer Hamels remains unsigned, the more time there is for speculation to fly.
The Phillies do not want to trade Hamels. Any suggestion of that idea is purely speculation at this point. Some national writers have dabbled in such speculation. It is not fact. The Phillies are not entertaining offers for Hamels.
"We have some other pieces of the club we need to take care of," Amaro said. "I've already expressed that to Cole and his agent. They understand it. We have until next October to do a deal with Cole. It's not a pressing need. But it's something we're absolutely on top of."
How we arrived at Point B from Point A, of course, is the faulty logic. For example: Because the Phillies traded Cliff Lee two winters ago, they cannot be ruled out from making a similar move with Hamels.
Sure, anything can happen. No one expected Lee to be traded. Amaro, in retrospect, said it was a mistake he made. He rectified it by re-signing Lee a year later.
How that relates to Hamels in any way, I'm not quite sure.
Yes, if Hamels signs a long-term deal, he will probably make at least $20 million per season. Lee, Roy Halladay and Ryan Howard have already crossed that threshold. But as we've said before, money is not much of an object these days for the Phillies. Their payroll will approach $180 million in 2012 and probably eclipse that figure.
Do they have some long-term commitments that could be eyesores in the future? For sure. But while the revenue-machine at Citizens Bank Park keeps churning sellouts, merchandise and a new, massive TV rights deal within the next three years, one or two or three problematic contracts probably will not defeat the machine.
The Phillies, eventually, will negotiate with Hamels' party. When that will be, we can't say. Until then, don't confuse speculation with facts.
Have a question? Send it to Matt Gelb's Mailbag.
Comments (38)
With some of the posts that I have read here, thank GOODNESS that none of you are the Phillies GM. The Phillies would be in BIG
TROUBLE!!!— SallyAnn- The time to talk contract with Hamels is spring to april. Let him prove he is healthy. We know he can pitch. If it gets to after 2012 season and he has a normal Hamels year there will be suitors for him and price will be go up. There is a risk with any contract.— Don w
- Pattymac...I didn't say he was like MOyer, I said he would have to evolve into a MOyer if he was to pitch effectively for the next 10-15 years. You think he will get better with age? Wrong, you have seen the best he can be. Maybe he has 1-2 decent years left. That for Cole means 14-15 wins. His elbow has begun detiorating, he CANNOT get any better than he was last year. A failing body part does not work better no matter how hard you try, how hard you train or how experienced you are.— Mark1npt
- Mulder, what do you not understand? Bone chips being removed from an elbow ARE structural changes! TJ surgery is but a pitch away as joint structure and function changes overwhelming the medial collateral ligament......simple progression of the detioration. Any PT or orthopedist will agree. I am a PT with 30 years experience in these matters.— Mark1npt
- I wonder if the Phillies stating they aren't trading Hamels has more truth to it than the Flyers saying they weren't trading Carter last year.— Kanayd
- He will get it and it will be from the Yankees.— re6035
- Agree with Jim. While, Mark raises the doomsday scenario that "if" Cole's elbow has structural issues and to date, they have not been "structural" damage per se, there is still a legitimate reason for concern and caution. A long term at $20 Million per is simply excessive for a pitcher with a career high of 15 wins (which was 2007). Cole will get a nice payday, but not at all in the $20 Million per annum stratosphere...— Special Agent Fox Mulder
- Ahhhh, no......pretzel. Hamels hasn't lost 40 games the last 3 years because of the Phils not scoring for him. He's lost maybe 10 and more often than not it's his own doing with his ,meltdowns, blaming umpires or just making bad pitches and blowing sure wins like he did against the Mets the last week of the season when he had a 1-0 lead in the 8th and gave up a tying HR to a nothing career minor leaguer after completely dominating the Mets for 7 2/3rd innings. He is the one that makes the pitches and he is the one who throws the gopher balls to lose himself games. He's probably lost 30 games for himself that way the last 3 years. With this team, and it's accomplishments the past 5 years, how can you not win 20 games atleast once? A really good $20 mil/per pitcher does it...maybe multiple times....if someone like Lee only averages 14-15 wins for his 5 years here, the Phils will have grossly overpaid. We can see already, that's not the case with Halladay.
Jim, my gloom and doom comes fromtwo very good places...my pitching (a lefty btw) for 23 years and my 30 years as a PT rehabilitating guys like Hamels. He may have already seen his best days as a ML pitcher. He may have a couple good years left, but I would be more than stunned if he was ever an ace or pitched effectively for more than a couple years. Should we really tie up another $20mil/per in a guy who may not even win his normal 14 games a year from now on?— Mark1npt - A lefty starter who averages over 200 innings the last 4 years is a valuable commodity. If he started the Cardinals series things may have been very different.— escapedcamden4monterey
- Trade? You better PRAY Cole doesn't get sick of the team not hitting for him and ASK to be traded. Chew on that. And where does this new notion that the Phils have so much money to spend now because of some supposed "massive TV contract" in 3 years? They have a deal in place now and the way for them to truly increase revenue is to start their own station like the Yanks or BoSox. Please explain more, because one has to believe they are at a limit right now at $180 mil.— MichaelZoe
- Argonne...I think we can all agree that the rapid and continued decline of the Phillies offense is alarming. What no one will agree with is that it has cost Cole Hamels 40 wins over the past 2-3 seasons.— CornerPretzelGuy
- i might not be quite as doom and gloom as mark is, but i hear you. he's been great at times, not so great at others- and he's not the horse Halladay and Lee have shown themselves to be, so he's definitely a riskier proposition, and really hasnt reached the level of those other 2 legit aces. i dont want him to leave, but we need to be careful not to overrate him and panic, like the Eagles fans who keep saying to just pay Desean.— jim715
- i think you're getting a little carried away on the $ figures for Cole. They arent going to bump him right up to to 20 million per- his contract would likely have years in there at that figure but not across the board (something like the 5/85 another mentioned). that being said, lefties are in such demand..Mediocrity personfied, Mark Buehrle is being bombarded with offers, and wait til you see what playoff disaster CJ Wilson gets. that would be one reason to try to sign Cole sooner rather than later.— jim715
- I see declining velocity on his fastball, more frequent cortisone injections, and probably fewer innings pitched in Hamels' future. Why would you want to sign that up for 6 years at $20 mil/per? And you thought Howard's contract was a bargain? Just wait. Except for one short period of time in the 2008 playoffs, he has never achieved his potential. You don't pay guys who win 14-15 games a year and who now have elbow damage $20 mil/year and you NEVER sign those people to 6 year contracts. You see how he throws coming off his surgery this year and if he remotely looks effective by the All Star break maybe you go 3 years at $14 mil/per. That's about $1 mil/per win for an average year for Cole. When you put it in those terms, it still sounds ridiculous, but people like CC, Lee, Halladay, Verlander....they are expected to win 20 games a year and win CY awards for their $20mil/per. Hamels has never sniffed 20 wins, has never been close to winning a CY award. You don't pay a pitcher who maxes out at 14 wins $20 mil/per year. Now, if Hamels makes a miraculous recovery and grows a new elbow and wins 20 games this year, maybe he can demand to be paid in that $20mil/per territory like the others......but it ain't gonna happen. He is physically inferior to what he was before this year. Might he get smarter and pitch like Moyer for another 15 years and win 250 games? Well, Moyer is the only one I've seen pitch like that and do what he did and he was good for 14 wins with us at $8mil/per.— Mark1npt
- Isee Cole getting a 5 year deal that will put him in at about 95 - 98 Million over 5 all with maybe an option year if they go 6 which I really don't think but you never know. They need to add at least a year to Roy's deal. Plus we need to sign Hunter to a 4 year deal too. Once we get the bench and 3rd bae taken care of then we can get Ciole and Hunter singed long term. As I have said until Howard comesback play Utley at 1st and let Thome play a few gamesthere too and if needed play Mayberry for a few too. but Mayberry needsto play in left. As for 3rd base would lvoe to see AR there with his .300 ave and 25-35 HR 100 RBI'S that leave Polly at 2nd and 3rda nd even short when needed . We need hitter not just for power but ave that can play meaning maybe we let Martinez go to triple A to get to play every day and maybe once he dose he will be able to hit .270-.280 which would make him of value to us not just for his base running but for his hitting too. His fielding is good but playing every day at triple A will let him stay sharp. Can't wait till spring training get here. With Just the FLYERS playing and worth watching baseball needs to get here soon.— srcdaddy1216
- Phils still have a fellow by the name of ryan howard to play first base, by the way. thome and/or john mayberry until howard returns.— CosmoK
- there is no reason in the world to even consider a trade of hamels at this point in his career, any national writer that thinks so should get their hof voting privileges taken away— flavious27
- Cole isn't going anywhere. As much as the fans might get on him sometimes, he's one of our guys - having come up through the system, won a WS, and is in his prime as one of the best pitchers in MLB period. That's why many fans are sad to see Madson leave to some degree. He was one of our guys that has had success and helped bring a WFC to the city.— DennyP
- They have to sign Hamels. It must be a slow news day if the topic of this article is the most interesting thing going on. What they need to do is beg some team to pick up our first baseman's crazy contract and sign someone that can hit.. Namely, Prince or Pujols. They're actually worth 25 mill.— grinch
- I cant wait until pitchers and cathers report... EAGLES SUCKS.....— Cool 1
- Why ink him since they now have Adam Worthington ?— NewMick314
- Most of...Truer words were never written. Witness the posts that follow your wisdom. (HTML deleted)— JoeyMax
- Most of...
Truer words were never written. Witness the pots that follow your wisdom.— JoeyMax - Of course they are not going to trade Cole ... he is an absolute stud pitcher and the number 1 reason we are NOT in year 28 of our Philadelphia Championship drought. Stay in Phillies pinstripes forever, Cole!— Phront_Runner
- I swear people have no clue. Someone compared Cole to Moyer.. They say he is injured and damaged goods.:) Judging a pitcher by wins is the dumbest thing I ever heard of. He was in the mix for a CY, In fact many experts expected him to win it before the season started. He was clearly not healthy for last quarter of the season and still had a 2.79 era and one of the best whip's in baseball. He is still learning. By the time he is 30 he will be one of the best pitchers out there — pattymac3
- Must be a terribly SLOW news day. Man this is pathetic.— ragecage22
- what does that mean? if you're not interested in reading about Hamels' future, move along. — phillyl0
- 2008 WS MVP. If this team had any kind of offense the past 2-3 years Cole would have 40 more career6 victories.
Cole Hamels needs to remain a Phillie through his prime years. You dont let a home grown pitcher like Cole get away.
— argonne - SilliBilli - 6 years sounds pretty long given the Phillies history. I think something along the lines of what Weaver got (5/$85), with maybe a "slight" bump in annual value (maybe $1M per year). I think the Phillies would rather do 3 or 4 years, but will realize they'll need to do 5. 6 years seeems out of the realm of what I believe they would do.— dawk2020
- When Hamels went out this year and beat the Cardinals in that key playoff game, he showed me that he is a veteran with many years to get even better.— defiore14
- When Hamels went out this year and beat the Cardinals in that key playoff game, he showed me that he is a veteran with many years to get even better.— defiore14
- Phils will sign Hamels to long term deal.....period.— frank105
- pjm7342 - I agree.— Bruno Sammartino
- All we need is a 1st baseman, a 3rd baseman and a new left fielder. And they all need to be able to HIT!— pjm7342
- I also see 6yrs/120mill in Cole's future.— SilliBilli
- SHOULDER CONCERNS AND POST SEASON ELBOW SURGERY TO REMOVE LOOSE BODIES. Can we just wait to award another big contract.
— DUDESKINS 
Comment removed.- I agree with you! Thank goodness these posters are not the Phillies GM. The Phils would be in BIG, BIG TROUBLE!!! — SallyAnn
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
Inquirer Staff Writer
Bob Brookover
Inquirer Baseball Columnist
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