Posted: Friday, August 29, 2008, 11:29 AM | 47 comments |
 

One Ugly Loss
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Cole Hamels pitched seven solid innings. Should he have pitched the eighth?

Last night's 6-4 loss to the Cubs might have been the worst loss of the season:

1. It was the first game of a four-game series against a team that is terribly difficult to beat at home. The Cubs are 50-19 at Wrigley Field this season, the best home record in baseball. Getting a split at Wrigley would be considered a success this weekend, and the Phillies were six outs away from putting themselves in great position to do that.

2. The Phillies scored four runs in six innings against Cubs righthander Ryan Dempster, which is no small feat considering Dempster has been one of the best pitchers in the National League this season and one of the best pitchers in baseball since the all-star break.

3. Cole Hamels pitched beautifully through seven innings, allowing only a run and five hits in seven innings.

4. It only gets tougher from here. The Phillies have to try to beat Cubs righthander Rich Harden this afternoon. He also has been one of the best pitchers in baseball since the break.

Should Hamels have started the eighth? Last night Manuel said Hamels was "absolutely spent." Hamels left the clubhouse without comment, which led most to believe that he wanted to pitch the eighth. After all, he threw 108 pitches. He appeared to be in control.

So why pull him?

Hamels said he was done.

"Once you get to 105, 110 pitches, you're pushing the envelope, especially this late in the season," he said this morning at Wrigley Field. "Obviously, I'm leading the league in innings. My body definitely has taken a toll. If I was maybe around the 98 to 104 mark, I possibily could have gone out. But just after that last inning -- that was a 20-pitch inning, I believe -- it took a toll. I knew with my space coming up in the order, I'm 0 for 2, it's not like I'm really doing anything special. I trust the bullpen 100 percent. That's why we have the best bullpen in the National League with the best ERA. Unfortuantely, sometimes it doesn't happen. You can't put any blame on that. It's just kind of the circumstances."

So, again, physically he felt like he shouldn't have pitched the eighth?

"No," he said. "Physically, no. I don't think it would have benefited, just with that last tough inning in the seventh. I guess your energy the way it is, I know I have to put in quality inning after quality inning. If I know I'm not fresh enough to do that, why put myself in a (position) not to benefit the team and also have to look at it from the standpoint that I have another start in five days?"

Said Dubee: "He said he had enough, so what can you do? I'm not going to send a guy out there that says he's done. He said he was pretty spent. ... He was the third hitter (in the eighth). If there were two outs and nobody on, he would have gone out there. But again, he had seven quality innings and he had enough. He had enough."

*

In the Phillies Notebook: J.C. Romero said he wanted to pitch in the eighth inning in Wednesday's 6-3 loss to the Mets.

*

Got confirmation from a Phillies source: the Phillies have acquired Matt Stairs from the Blue Jays for a minor leaguer. That mystery man could be announced after the game, and Stairs could be in town this weekend.
Posted by Todd Zolecki @ 11:29 AM  Permalink | 47 comments
47
Comments   
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:45 AM, 08/29/2008
    "Last night's 6-4 loss to the Cubs might have been the worst loss of the season:" ... ... ... MIGHT have been??? What other loss MIGHT have been worse? This one was utterly devastating!!! And it will only become more so as they proceed to drop 2 of the next 3 to the Cubs, while the Mets pound on the fading Marlins.
    — RollinsWasRight
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:46 AM, 08/29/2008
    I suspect Hamels is cranked up because he was pulled (and should be). And can we please never see Madson again? God, that sucked.
    — jimmymack
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:47 AM, 08/29/2008
    Let me say - last yr was fool's gold.... our idiot manager used bullpen guys 4 days in a row at times in desperation - to save our mediocre (at best) starters, our SS had a yr he will never duplicate and the Mets had a historic breakdown.. all to get swept in the playoffs. Well, at least the consistent part is the idiot manager. I actually applaud this team - our 3 best hitters have struggled all yr, our starters are still mediocre and our bullpen cannot keep this up (especially if Madsen keeps pitching). But this sure beats most of the last 3 decades.
    — AllDawk_AllTheTime
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:48 AM, 08/29/2008
    If Cole is upset because he wanted to pitch the 8th, bless his little heart. But he did his job. He pitched like an ace. He gave his team 7 dominant innings, against the best team in baseball, on the raod, when they needed it the most. Any bullpen should be able to record 6 outs without coughing up a 3-run lead, especially the supposed "best bullpen in the National League". Instead, they failed to record even a single out before they had surrendered 5 runs. Sorry, Cole. You deserved better... again.
    — RollinsWasRight
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:51 AM, 08/29/2008
    One noticeable similarity between this year and last: Charlie has about 3 guys in the bullpen who have proven dependable in a big spot, Romero, Durbin and Lidge this year, Romero, Gordon and Myers last. One frightening difference: All three guys last year had significant time off in-season, and were not overworked coming down the stretch, so they could be leaned on more. This years guys have shown signs, at times, of tiring, and Durbin is clearly spent already.
    — RollinsWasRight
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 11:55 AM, 08/29/2008
    I still feel sick. I keep hoping I will wake up on the couch and find it is 3 am, and the Phillies won 4-1, and I dreamt the 8th inning nightmare. Part of me is ready to congratulate the Mets on winning the 2008 NL East Championship (probably the part that was ripped out and jackhammered mercilessly about .02 seconds after Aramis Ramirez made contact).
    — RollinsWasRight
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:01 PM, 08/29/2008
    I have to see Madsen and Seanez blow one more super important game and I just might come to another game, just kidding I'm one of the lame Phils Phans who just keeps going no matter what fools you field.
    — Trot
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:08 PM, 08/29/2008
    My God. Calm the heck down. The Cubs are a GOOD team. It's not like they got blown out. still plenty of games to go.
    — Frank Lloyd Wrong
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:13 PM, 08/29/2008
    Frank Lloyd Wrong: You are right. It isn't like they got blown. Getting blown out means you lost the game from the start; you didn't deserve to win; you never had a chance. What they DID do was give away a game they had won, an important game, against the best team in baseball. They cannot afford to give wins away. Especially not two nights in a row.
    — RollinsWasRight
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:37 PM, 08/29/2008
    EL ZORRO, JEFF, and KMG: Last night was EXACTLY the situation I was talking about yesterday. It is beyond frustrating to see your best bullpen arm warmed and ready.....and NOT GET INTO THE GAME. That is exactly why I would like to see changes made in the way a save is awarded. Manuel did like "the book" says and held his best bullpen arm in reserve for a save situation WHICH NEVER DID OCCUR. He stood and watched while our back end guys coughed up the game. I would have much preferred to see Lidge pitch the 8th. Even if he didn't start the inning, he's the guy I want out there replacing Madson. If a 2-run lead, runners on first and third, no outs, and the 3-4-5 hitters coming up is not the most crucial part of the game, then I am missing something somewhere. 25-30 years ago, every manager in the game would bring his "fireman of the year" candidate in without hesitation. That's why he was in the pen. If Lidge pitches the 8th, even if the runner on 3rd scores, we have a 4-2 lead, the 6-7-8 hitters are up in the 9th, and the next reliever starts a clean inning. Like I said yesterday, I know my head is in the clouds on this issue. Managers will not alter the way they use their closer. The funny thing is that the justification for that is that the closer is the only one capable of finishing off a game. That is the case because he is the only one who is asked to do it on a regular basis. If the closer was used outside the 9th and other relievers were given a regular opportunity to pitch the 9th instead, I'm sure that many others (certainly not all, but some) would be able to handle it. I really don't go for all the bowing and scraping at the feet of closers. I feel that if we pulled back the curtain, as it were, other relievers would find that the wizard (or at least his 9th inning role) is nothing to fear after all.
    — bski
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:37 PM, 08/29/2008
    The Mets loss the day before was worst, because is our division rival. If we win, we are 6 and 9, with three more to play against the Mets. Now we are 5-10, the best we can do is finish 8 and 10 instead of 9 and 9. Why is that important? Because if we finish tied for the dividion, the first teibreaker is head-to-head competition and the Mets win.
    — EL Zorro
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:38 PM, 08/29/2008
    With the wind blowing out, I can see why Charlie went to the ground ball pitcher Madson as opposed to the fly ball pitcher Durbin. I could tell from the expression on Madson's face that he wasn't going to get it done. He had no movement on his ball at all. I guess he knew he was toast in the bullpen warm-up.
    — RAS
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:46 PM, 08/29/2008
    Frank Lloyd Wrong......We can get to the play-offs by beating bad teams, but......We HAVE to beat GOOD teams to win a World Series!
    — Norma
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:47 PM, 08/29/2008
    bski, you are most logical and correct in your thinking, however...this is baseball. A time honored game, run by stupid old men from Penn and Harvard and played by spoiled rotten little boys. Their agents will never let them sign with your team if you dare to go against the time honored roles that all teams must follow.....closers today close, end of story. Starting pitchers go 6-7 innings or 100 pitches end of story......unless the way baseball is defined and run changes industry wide, you and your thoughts will not be allowed to flourish or be successful. But, just for the record...you are right!
    — Mark1npt
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:11 PM, 08/29/2008
    Help Wanted : Setup man, Apply within, experience helps , we will train.. Salary minimal.. Must have heart and be able to understand manager at a press conference..Must be able to work under stressful conditions, fans may boo...Language optional..ASAP....
    — pat h


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Bob Brookover and Matt Gelb team up for their third straight season covering the Phillies for the Inquirer and philly.com.

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