The Phillies Zone

More on Charlie

POSTED: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 12:24 PM

Andy Martino

Here’s the full story, in case you haven’t seen it yet. The sample I posted last night obviously sparked discussion, and I’m sure that’s what Manuel intended. He does this sort of thing occasionally—cites a vague problem without naming names or even the specific issue. His intent seems to be to send a you-know-who-you-are message to players.

Problem is, that it sort of act makes everyone guilty by implication. Let’s say he wasn’t referring to Hamels or Rollins, for example. By not ruling them out, he left room for speculation about those guys. You all are perfectly right to speculate; Manuel’s comments practically beg you to. But it doesn’t seem fair to the hardworking players to have their names dragged in if undeserved. If people are indeed slacking, Manuel should name them to absolve those you aren’t. But that’s just IMHO. His understanding of how to motivate men is deeper than mine, granted.

I won’t claim to know who he had in mind, but I can tell you that he has explicitly complimented Howard, Rollins, Utley, Hamels and Myers lately for various work ethic-related actions. But just because he hasn’t said anything positive about, say, Pedro Feliz, doesn’t mean that Feliz is part of the presumed problem. See what I mean?

Here's Jim Salisbury's exclusive on Hamels from this morning.

***

Congratulations to Shane Victorino for winning the 2009 Lou Gehrig Award for his work raising money for ALS. He will be presented with the award before a home game July 4 by the Phi Delta Theta International Fraternity (that’s Gehrig’s old frat at Columbia), who will then lead a sing-along of “Louie, Louie” and throw a keg through the window.

***

Remember, I tweet you.

31 comments

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Comments (31)

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 12:54 PM, 04/21/2009

You make a good point Andy. When I first read your post the name that jumped out at me immediately was Jayson Werth. Werth had been held out of some spring games, was on the pine Sunday, and hasn't been playing nearly as well as he is capable of. It also looks like he is trying to do too much at the plate. In the past he has been a great 2 strike hitter b/c he will shorten his swing and go the other way with the ball. Now it looks like he is swinging himself out of his shoes at times, even with two strikes. Perhaps Cholly was talking about him when he made his vague comment. We don't know how hard Werth has been working as fans however, so to speculate that he isn't committed to winning is foolish, so he may be unfairly blamed by the fans. It is often said in the sports world that winning cures all, and boy do the Phillies ever been a nice win streak right now.

— phillygreg

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 12:58 PM, 04/21/2009

I don't know if naming names is the way to go either. We had a manager here (Bowa) who allegedly told Bill Conlin, “He’s killing us’’ when Scott Rolen grounded it out with men on base one night in a losing cause. All hell broke lose. The ratings on WIP went through the roof. Bowa later said he was misquoted. That what he said was “the middle of the lineup is killing us.’’ He also admitted that he should've said “the middle of the lineup isn't hitting to its potential.’’ The cranky Scott Rolen, who had one foot out the door, was not too thrilled to be thrown under the bus, nevertheless. Bowa was right, but sometimes is better to keep those comments in house. Imagine a player saying that Charlie is not very good at the double switch move yet. Ouch!

— EL Zorro

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 1:15 PM, 04/21/2009

Zorro, you make good points......Cholly knows that clubhouse better than anyone.....he knows which buttons to push...maybe Hamels was just manning up and expecting others to follow.....Werth does spring to mind as someone who didn't come to work prepared this spring....many other players worked extra hard this offseason...obviously some did not and others have had too many outside distractions....a true professional old school guy like Cholly, won't stand for that. I don't blame him one bit. The rest of the league are gunning for us this year. We need to be even better to win it this year and establish that dynasty that Cole and a few others were talking about......time to mount up boys....the real season has started.....thanks for sounding the bugle, Cholly.

— Mark1npt

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 1:31 PM, 04/21/2009

Also remember that we read an awful lot into Charlie's comments. Charlie was talking about certain players' attitudes or mindsets. He never specifically said anything about working hard. We assumed that a noticeable decline in work ethic was a byproduct of a laid back attitude, but Charlie never actually said anything about anybody not working hard enough. When you think about it from that perspective, he could be talking about anybody, because we have no idea who might be exuding a more cavalier attitude in the clubhouse, or whose focus when they arrive might not be on that night's game, that night's opponent.

— RollinsWasRight

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 1:37 PM, 04/21/2009

But I must disagree with Andy. One of the things the players supposedly love about Charlie is that no matter how frustrated he is with a particular player, he does not publicly throw them under the bus. And while naming names would absolve the innocent, it would always do more harm than good. It is one thing to motivate; but naming names would only serve to alienate. This is clearly one of those, "You know who you are" situations, and if anyone is unsure or annoyed, there's no reason Charlie can't simply let them know, "Hey, I wasn't talking about you. You keep doing what you've been doing, and we'll be fine." Also, the fact that Charlie mentioned that he has not addressed with anyone directly, but he is willing if he has to, kinda makes it seem as if he is hoping one of the players on the team will stand up and fill that role. Perhaps that is something that Burrell would've done last year (I dunno...but Charlie loves to talk about how much of a leader Pat Burrell was), or perhaps its something they have never really needed before, or perhaps Charlie is trying to nudge whoever does usually handle that kind of in-house issue to get with it before it gets out of control.

— RollinsWasRight

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 1:41 PM, 04/21/2009

We'll know who he was talking about when we see who goes 3 for 4 with a couple of RBIs tonight

— andwhysee

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 1:52 PM, 04/21/2009

I think it would be wrong to name names. That's something better left to a face-to-face discussion than to be aired publicly.

— gbrettfan

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 2:02 PM, 04/21/2009

Excellent points on the other side. Though Charlie's comments are a far, far less serious issue, the debate reminds me of the division over whether to name the names from the positive drug test list that A-Rod was on. On the one hand, obsolve the innocent (that's the Brad Lidge school of thought), on the other hand, protect privacy. No clear-cut answer, but I appreciate a healthy discussion.

— Andy Martino

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 2:05 PM, 04/21/2009

This is the next step in the progression for Manuel. He has been talking about how the team needs to forget about last season success and start focusing on what they need to do to be successful this season for a little while now. It seems like each successive statement he makes on the subject is more stern and foreboding. This one almost comes across as a parental thing. You know, like when you were a kid and you were horsing around/fighting/making a racket with a brother/sister/friend and one of your parents would yell, "Don't make me come up there!", or "If you guys can't work it out, I'll work it out for you!", that type of thing. Well, it sounds to me like the parental warning has been issued and if the situation doesn't correct itself very soon, then Charlie will address it (i.e. the individual player or players) directly, just like he has in the past.

— bski

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 2:24 PM, 04/21/2009

I think he's just trying to motivate all the players. Complimenting those who have worked very hard in the offseason and trying to encourage those who are a bit behind to "get their rear in gear". Also the pitching staff could certainly use some help. I hope this series with the Brewers is the start of a winning streak, lower ERA and higher batting avgs! GO PHILS!

— KarenA

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 2:39 PM, 04/21/2009

Andy, I know Cholly is a controversial figure to some folks (NOT including me) but the headline on this piece was over the line.

— mick314

0 like this / 0 don't • Posted 2:58 PM, 04/21/2009

mick - you think "More on Charlie" is over the line? On another note, I think the continued interuption in play is not helping anything. This team can't get any momentum with the rain outs and distractions.

— Gary Varsho