Manuel says Happ could go to bullpen
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Manuel says Happ could go to bullpen
Andy Martino
The most interesting event tonight came in Charlie Manuel's office after the game, when he went further than ever about the idea of shifting J.A. Happ to a key bullpen role.
“I like Happ as a starter, always have,” Manuel said. “But at the same time, also seeing the way out pitching looks, there would be a chance that he could wind up in the back end of our bullpen if things…if we don’t get some things straightened out, and if Romero don’t come back. I’m not saying we’re going to do that, but we’re going to talk about it if we don’t have no lefty.”
Asked if he could see Happ as a closer, Manuel said: “Yeah, probably,” though he implied he would be more likely to use Happ in a role like Romero’s last year, assigned to retire both lefties and righties in the late innings.
What does Happ think? His strong preference is to be a starter, and tonight he did not want to think about the issue after an encouraging win. “It’s too early for me to think about (going to the bullpen)," he said. "I’m really just trying to get back into the routine of doing my job.”
If temporarily reassigned, this would be much different than other threats to Happ's job security this year. Manuel, desperate to avoid a season spoiled by the bullpen, spoke glowingly of Happ and would trust him in big spots in the playoffs.
What do you think? Is he too effective as a starter, or would he be most helpful this year in the bullpen?
Comments (31)
Lidge is a closer and that's it. If he can't do that job in the post-season, there's no point in him being on the roster. It's cold, but I think you have to leave him off. Keeping him on the roster means dropping some other, more useful, pitcher. And that could be very costly if the Phils get into an extra inning game or a starter gets shelled early. Hurts to have to say it, but I think you have to treat Lidge as if he's done for the year at this point.— bobby
Only thought Happ might eventually start giving up more runs due to fact he only throws about 90 on his fastball and his other pitchers aren't spectacular either. He does hide the ball well though making him look sneaky fast. It's still hard to see how he is so successful but hey! who cares? Happ does well early in games which should make him a good closer. Only time will tell if he will be. I think he's started his last game this year unless one of the other starters gets hurt.— James TL- [Posted by MooseBreathMints 03:25 AM, 09/25/2009 Logic says Lidge does not make the Post Season roster. .... If I recall correctly Adam Eaton did not make it because of his deplorable season. ] Yes, but Eaton was not "lights out" in his previous season! He was owed nothing.— jman
- [Posted by Bobphxville 12:05 PM, 09/25/2009 Why would you change something that is working? The guy is 11-4 with a 2.79 era. Among starters - only Lee with a 2.65 era is better.] You would change because the bullpen fiasco (along with only needing 4 starters for the playoffs) dictates that you need to dip into your rotation to plug a bullpen hole. You're not going to use Lee or Hamels in that role, and Martinez has pitched well since being activated. That leaves Blanton (who hasn 't relieved all season) and Happ (who has). It's all there in black & white!— jman
- Lidge will no doubt be on the post-season roster, but as a mop-up guy. It's the compromise position between being the go-to closer, and being left off altogether. Manuel & Amaro won't do that to him, out of consideration of past accomplishments. Better to tick off Condrey or Durbin (who the Phils may see as expendable for 2010 anyway). ... Once they chop a veteran off the post-season roster, he's pretty much out the door before the following year. (Tony Taylor, Nino Espinosa, Randy Lerch, Adam Eaton). Kendrick, being young and hungry, is the exception. If they want Moyer back in 2010, he will be on the post-season roster.— jman
- Why would you change something that is working? The guy is 11-4 with a 2.79 era. Among starters - only Lee with a 2.65 era is better.— Bobphxville
- Charley is right on. Happ is the most versatile pitcher in the Phillies' organization at present. He is a very fine starter. He has the temperament and pitching skill to be a closer. Despite his youth, he is poised and unflappable. If a batter gets a hit, Happ doesn't let it bother him: He just gets the next guy. He is worth his weight in gold either as a starter or as a bull pen artist. Thank heaven he was not traded! The team's great need now is for a left-handed reliever, and Happ is a good enough soldier to take up the challenge, even though he prefers to start. The starting rotation for the playoffs could (and probably should) be Lee, Hamels, Blanton and Martinez: two lefties, two righties, all throwing well at present. Add Happ to the bull pen, and he can be used for long relief, short relief, or to work as part of a "closer by committee" arrangement. He will shine in any role given to him, and could be the hero of the next World Series.— hillgs
- [Posted by James TL 11:47 AM, 09/25/2009 I'm a loyal Phillies fan but I've been waiting all year for Happ to fail] Yes, you and many others have been expecting Happ to morph into Kyle Kendrick. Based on what? Because it's his 2nd year and teams will "figure him out"? That quite a stereotype you all have. Hamels didn't collapse in his 2nd year. Kendrick did. Why did you all assume that Happ would also?— jman
- [Posted by Joe in Haddonfield 09:05 AM, 09/25/2009 ... The team is coasting to the Division title] On the surface, this appears true. BUT, the Braves have 7 games remaining with the Nationals. That, combined with the Phillies' closing problems, makes the division anything but a gimme for the Phillies.— jman
- I keep hearing how Happ hides the ball well. Can anybody explain what makes his tendencies of concealing his pitch different than others such as Hamels or Lee?— Nothing but the truth
- I'm a loyal Phillies fan but I've been waiting all year for Happ to fail considering he really doesn't have 'electric stuff'. He has more than exceeded my expectations up to this point. Considering the options, Happ seems like the best option to be the closer. Lidge is cooked and Madson doesn't have the 'head' for closing. Myers isn't ready either so give the ball to Happ at the end of the game and hope for the best.— James TL
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I think Happ would be great in the pen. My impression is that he is not one of those starters who gives up a lot of first inning runs and then settles down, he usually starts strong (like last night). I also don't see any reason they need to have a designated closer. Why not bring in Happ for tough lefthanded batters and Madson or Park for righties? It's not like the Phils have anyone with that all-important closer mentality. Moyer and Lidge are going to be tough decisions for someone, because it's hard to justify their spots on the postseason roster. Moyer, though, might have a better case if Happ is going late-inning relief. In that case, Moyer might be their best bet for a long reliever.- Moyer - long relief for rain delays or lopsided games. If the bullpen health doesn't improve, Happ can fill the role Charlie describes. If both Happ and Martinez are healthy, one of them will have to end up in the bullpen. At this point another question has to be - Do we even activate Lidge on the playoff roster? I vote no unless the long awaited turnaround occurs these last 10 games.
- Wow...Charlie "Rip Van Winkle" Manuel is developing a strategy to FINALLY address the dire closer situation...it's about time! He must have read some of my posts, as well posts by other concerned fans, giving exactly the Happ strategy over the last month. You know, the best thing for the Phillies might be to put Charlie on the DL for the playoffs. Please don't tell me HE won a Championship last year. Fact is, the Phillies won DESPITE Charlie being the manager. This guy is a boob as a manager.— Tomme
- Until the post season, Charlie really had nothing to lose by giving Lidge every chance to figure things out. The team is coasting to the Division title. Once there is something significant on the line (post season) Charlie won't take any chances. Lidge's knee will become a topic in a week, then the 60 day DL. Use Happ as the closer from here forward (after he recovers from this last start) so he have develop a routine as much as possible.— Joe in Haddonfield
- Lidge blowing that save in FL and pitching with no confidence was exactly what we needed. Now there are no questions about whether or not he'll be the closer and we can move on. He's done and didn't have to watch him blow a playoff game.— dpell
- Happ has been a good soldier, willing to do whatever the Phils want. He's a solid starter with a great future, but these are desperate times in the bullpen. Try him there now, Chollie, not after the playoffs begin.
- Cholly, Dubee, Lidge need to meet to go over the mumbers. Should be a brief mtg, followed by Lidge being shut down until late Feb.— mick314
- Charlie's great. Whatever it takes to win. The only reason he has stayed with Lidge so long is that he has no viable alternative -- other than using a starter -- and the Phils haven't been pressed for the division lead. Fregosi stuck with Mitch Williams much, much too long in the playoffs in 1993 and it cost the Phils a title. Charlie won't do the same.— iceman
- Hopefully the Lidge experiment is over and Phils realize it's crunch time and they need more consistency in the back of the pen. Since the Division series is best of 5, the don't need Happ and will use Hamels, Blanton and Lee. Let Happ close and see how he does. Assuming they move on to the NLCS,they have time to make furthur decisions. Hopefully by then Happ will realize his worth to the team and will relent. Martinez should take Moyers role from last year. I will be surpised if Moyer makes the roster but knowing Charlie he will probably reward him with a spot.— carlton
- Logic says Lidge does not make the Post Season roster. Some will say "he is the closer." Is he? He has had 30(out of 63 games) very poor performances this year. You can not risk the play offs with his 50% inconstancy. You have to use the best players. If I recall correctly Adam Eaton did not make it because of his deplorable season. Reason over feelings! ( I hope Brad can work something out. He has had 63 games to get it right.)
- Logic says Lidge does not make the Post Season roster. Some will say "he is the closer." Is he? He has had 30(out of 63 games) very poor performances this year. You can not risk the play offs with his 50% inconstancy. You have to use the best players. If I recall correctly Adam Eaton did not make it because of his deplorable season. Reason over feelings! ( I hope Brad can work something out. He has had 63 games to get it right.)
- I LOVE the idea because then the playoff rotation would come together as Lee, Hamels, Blanton and Martinez with Moyer & Happ from the left side in the pen. But if Happ closes or pitches at key points late in the game, Manuel better start getting Happ more exposure in that role NOW instead of waiting until the playoffs to see how he responds.— makrom
- Love to have him as a starter...but absolutely NEED him in the pen. They can't get anybody out right now.
- I love Charlie to death, but his grammar is awful.— IgglesFan79
- Assuming Pedro is healthy, you got to think they really need Happ more in the Pen than as a starter. Alot can happen by the time you get to game four...Happ can really help in those first few games giving us a lefty to come in. if you think about it that way I think its a no brainer. i would hate to think we lose game 1 or game 2 because we dont have an effective lefty in the late innings to come in. I also think you go with one out saves for Lidge if he is even on the roster. if not, you roll the dice with Madson and hope for the best. Hopefully, Cliff Lee can be the starter, set up man, and closer in his game like hes done before. Then there is not even an issue!— MTust24
- Baseball Prospectus just crunched some numbers showing Phils have best run-support adjusted four-man starting rotation in all of baseball with Happ but a bit less so with Pedro (one of three teams that are behind the Cardinals) Of course Pedro hasn't really had the chance to put up a body of work. And the stats don't think about whether or not it would be good to have three of your playoff starters be lefties (though against certain teams, it might be).— jason14
- interesting idea, but what would that do to the starting rotation? Where does Moyer fit in that scenario?— eicholson
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