Lineups, the presidency
Good morning from Kissimmee, where the Phillies play the Astros, and Roy Oswalt, at 1:05. Here’s the lineup: Victorino CF Bruntlett 1B Utley 2B Werth RF Ibanez LF Feliz 3B Cairo SS Coste C Myers P I was very impressed by two responses in particular to last night’s SAT question. The analogy was Thomas Jefferson: James Madison :: Charlie Manuel : ? Was looking for more clever reasoning than a specific answer, and reader Futurama came through with a good one: I would say more Milt Thompson. Both are hitting coaches, like Jefferson and Madison were both Virginians. Manuel is the teacher while Thompson is the understudy, again, like the relationship between Jefferson and Madison. The Generalissimo and the General. Also loved Phillygreg: Cholly:Larry Bowa! They both have a tremendous amount of respect for each other, but they are polar opposites when it comes to their managing style. Much like Jefferson and Madison adored each other, but were polar opposites when it came to their governing style (federal vs. state). I am the greatest.
Lineups, the presidency
Andy Martino
Good morning from Kissimmee, where the Phillies play the Astros, and Roy Oswalt, at 1:05.
Here’s the lineup:
Victorino CF
Bruntlett 1B
Utley 2B
Werth RF
Ibanez LF
Feliz 3B
Cairo SS
Coste C
Myers P
I was very impressed by two responses in particular to last night’s SAT question. The analogy was Thomas Jefferson: James Madison :: Charlie Manuel : ?
Was looking for more clever reasoning than a specific answer, and reader Futurama came through with a good one:
I would say more Milt Thompson. Both are hitting coaches, like Jefferson and Madison were both Virginians. Manuel is the teacher while Thompson is the understudy, again, like the relationship between Jefferson and Madison. The Generalissimo and the General.
Also loved Phillygreg:
Cholly:Larry Bowa! They both have a tremendous amount of respect for each other, but they are polar opposites when it comes to their managing style. Much like Jefferson and Madison adored each other, but were polar opposites when it came to their governing style (federal vs. state). I am the greatest.
One thing I didn't see was anyone predicting Manuel's eventual successor, after he retires to Monticello and a correspondence with his John Adams. Ooohhh...Thomas Jefferson:John Adams::Charlie Manuel: ?
Comments (23)
Jamie Moyer becomes new pitching coach, Rich Dubee manager. Either that, or we bring Lee Elia back and sign Von Hayes as a 3b coach so we can watch them fight in the dugout again...— Philth- Dutch Daulton will be the next manager, if he ever comes back to earth.— EL Zorro
- Nice thoughts, except that Dubee has voiced publicly that he has zero desire to manage. He likes being a pitching coach. And Andy, Jefferson:Adams :: Manuel:Bowa ... as far as Charlie's successor, I don't think he is with the organization yet; at least, not at the Major League level (unless they really like Sam Perlozzo).— RollinsWasRight
- EZ - "back" to Earth? Was Dutch ever really here to begin with?— RollinsWasRight
- Charlie's successor: John Russell after he extrictes himself from Pittsburgh. Jefferson:Adams::Manuel:Andy Rooney— ruswalsh
- What about Jefferson:Adams::Manuel:Leyland? Leyland didn't actually precede Manuel, but Manuel beat him for the job as Jefferson defeated Adams in 1800. And then Manuel went on to have a more successful administration than Leyland (in terms of the Tigers only). I would say that makes the World Series the equivalent of the Louisiana purchase.— AMC4232
- Geeze, you guys must have a lot of time on your hands.— SteveV
- Cholly's successor: Michael Jack Schmidt?? He interviewed for job before Cholly. Just a thought.— KarenA
- AMC - very astute, and amusing. Should we hire Louis & Clarke (and Sacagawea) to chronicle the World Series?— RollinsWasRight
- Jefferson:Adams :: Manuel: The Guy Who Beaned Him And Broke His Jaw in Japan 30 Years Ago. Look it up. Charlie was awesome in the Japanese leagues.— Mike H.
- Jefferson (Led drive to Independence): Madison (framed the next 200+ years of freedom with the constitution) = Manual (Led drive to World Champs): Amaro Jr.(framed the next 200+ years of Phighten's Phils dominance!)— midnightRED
- So, back to baseball, Phils hitting around Roy Oswalt a bit...nice!— RollinsWasRight
- these are excellent— Andy Martino
- This is a great blog post and collection of comments. Phillies fans are the best and brightest.— spinmeister
- I like Milt— BigDawg13
- Andy -- Aren't you reading founding brothers? If so, why would you post a comment suggesting that Jefferson and Madison were polar opposites because one was in favor of federal government and one in favor of states rights? Jefferson and Madison were both adament states-rights republicans; Hamilton and Jay were the federalists. I know you've got other work to do (and you're doing a great job at it), but it looks like you've got more reading to do friend.— Burrito_77
- OK, let's see if we can't clear some of this up. JEFFERSON/MADISON: the reference to the generalissimo and the general is accurate, as Madison was, without question, a Jefferson devotee. As such, when talking about an analogy to Charlie Manuel, we should be looking for exactly that, a disciple. Short of that, I guess we'd be looking for someone of like mind. However, we cannot discount the fact that although Madison was not, strictly speaking, a Federalist, he did indeed want a stronger central/national government and collaborated closely with Hamilton on The Federalist Papers. He also worked tirelessly both in the creation and in support of the constitution and it's ratification. His falling out with Hamilton had more to do with their differing opinions as to the scope of power vested in the national government. Hamilton interpreted the constitution more loosely (the necessary and proper clause) and wanted to impart broader powers, whereas Madison wanted a more limited government, only giving it the powers expressly stated in the constitution. Hence the problems over the assumption of state debts, the formation of a national bank, and other broad, reaching, national economic plans...............As far as JEFFERSON/ADAMS, even though they were close friends early in their careers, especially during their years together in Paris, the inevitable Federalist/Republican schism is undeniable. Beyond that, however, I would say that another key difference between them would be that Jefferson was more of a philosophical thinker who dealt in lofty ideals without much concern as to the "real world", whereas Adams was much more a "cold hard facts" realist and, as such, much more pragmatic in his views. I would say that looking for an analogy to Manuel, whom I see as more of a pragmatist, would mean that we are searching for more of a dreamer/idealist.— bski
- BTW Andy, I love the references to "The Wire". It is definitely my all-time favorite drama.— bski
- Successor: Its between YOU and Murph ! By the way, the person who nominated Michael Jack has a very short memory. He bombed at Clearwater.— mick314
- Very impressive post, bski. I'm not a history buff, but this is a great discussion. I've heard that Charlie Manuel is an honest, straightforward person. Those are always good characteristics in a leader. I'd like to see Jamie Moyer succeed him some day.— spinmeister
- SPINMEISTER.....Thanks. The colonial/revolutionary war/early republic era is my favorite and I've read fairly extensively on it over the years (including Founding Brothers back when it was originally published in 2000 or 2001). Andy just happened to hit upon it. BTW, caught a mistake I made near the end. When talking about JEFFERSON/ADAMS......the REPUBLICAN/FEDERALIST schism is undeniable.....Sorry for the mixup. Anyway, getting back to the analogy I guess a guy like Bowa would be the opposite of Manuel. You know, a guy who is constantly riding the guys, just grinds and grinds them, and eventually wears them out, where Manuel has more of a feel for when to back off, to have his player's backs, and so on.— bski
- Bowa would be the opposite. If Charlie builds a dynasty, Larry will be too old to replace him, anyway. I hope we don't need to think about it for a long time.— spinmeister
- Don't get me wrong, SPINMEISTER. I don't WANT Bowa to replace Manuel, he was just the first guy that popped into my head as an opposite. It's funny how that seems to go in all sports. Teams seem to alternate between a laid back "player's" manager/coach (until losing can be blamed on him being too lax or not lighting enough of a fire under them) and a stern disciplinarian (until losing can be blamed on him wearing guys down and/or them tuning him out).— bski
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