Looking ahead to an interesting 2011
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Looking ahead to an interesting 2011
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
Will Jayson Werth be part of the Phillies' future plans? (Laurence Kesterson / Staff Photographer)
First, let's begin with the positives: On Thursday, the Phillies signed two very fair long-term contracts with two important players -- Joe Blanton and Shane Victorino. The players received decent value for their services and the Phillies didn't overpay and now have a better sense of their future commitments in money.
But...
Not that we like to harp upon the negatives around here, but consider this: The Phillies now have around $129 million guaranteed to 14 players in 2011. That's probably not going to work -- unless the team is willing to significantly expand its budget, which is already at the highest figures in franchise history.
So, something has to give eventually.
We're looking in the general direction of Jayson Werth. Werth, who signed a two-year, $10 million deal to avoid his final year of arbitration last year and buyout his first year of free agency this year, goes onto the market for the first time after the 2010 season. And if he has another season similar to 2009, with 36 home runs, 99 RBI and 20 stolen bases, there should be a handful of teams willing to pay the man decent bucks.
Does the signing of Victorino preclude the Phillies from bringing Werth back? Not necessarily. Werth could take a discounted salary to stay in the fold in Philadelphia and the Phillies could maybe work a trade for Raul Ibanez. But that's a long shot considering Ibanez's age and the fact that the Phillies would probably have to throw in some money in any deal involving Ibanez.
We should find out later Friday what Ruben Amaro Jr. says about the commitment to Victorino. The number of years may be different from his contract and Werth's, but the principle is the same: The Phillies bought out the final arbitration years for each, plus their first year on the free-agent market. Victorino just has less service time, so he had one more year of arbitration left than Werth did.
Here are the players under contract for 2011: Ryan Howard ($20M), Roy Halladay ($20M), Chase Utley ($15.286M), Raul Ibanez ($12.167M), Brad Lidge ($12M), Cole Hamels ($9.5M), Jimmy Rollins ($8.5M), Joe Blanton ($8.5), Shane Victorino ($8.25M -- an estimate), Placido Polanco ($5.417M), Ryan Madson ($4.833M), Danys Baez ($2.750M), Brian Schneider ($1.625M) and Ross Gload ($1.6M).
Amaro said "cost certainty" is a big part of what the team is trying to do. They at least have a good idea of how much money is tied up at this point. Assistant general manager Scott Proefrock was asked about the financial situation and said this was part of the plan.
"You're going to have some money possibly coming off," Proefrock said. "You never know what we're going to with the other cases with some extensions or whatnot. We're certainly aware of the commitments we've made. We've got a substantial amount of money tied up for the next couple of years. And that was part of the plan last year and this year with regards to maximizing our opportunities to keep these teams together, to get back to where we want to go."
Just a thought: For everyone who is still upset about paying Joe Blanton and not Cliff Lee, keep 2011 and beyond in your mind. Knowing the money they had tied up for 2011, the team had an idea it was basically impossible to meet what Lee will bring in free agency next offseason. So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible.
Even if Werth ends up being out of the picture, does the team still have enough flexibility to fill out the rest of the roster for 2011? Or does someone under contract need to be traded to free up cash?
It's all a ways down the road, but nearly every move the Phillies have made this offseason was done with 2011 in mind, too.
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We're still awaiting official word on the Victorino signing. There should be an announcement some time this morning and we'll pass it along.
Comments (123)
Sounds good to me. I think the Phils management knows exactly what they are doing.— bumblebee_4tuna- The Lee point at the end is a very good point. Maybe the Lee whiners will clam up now...— Grazman
If Dominic Brown is as good as advertised, someone will have to go. I would prefer it to be Ibanez, but realistically Werth may be the trade card that is played to improve the pitching staff in July. I like him, but i don't think you will be able to move Raul. We need to keep Shane to leadoff when they say goodbye to Jimmy.- Chicken of the Sea is hands down the best tuna, first of all. And as to the report, there is no way RAJ lets Werth walk, assuming his productivity doesn't nosedive. He may not get billing yet as apart of the official "core" of this team, but he's just a step below at this rate.— evolutionary
- Victorino's trade value peaked this off-season. The Phillies should've traded him for starting pitching. Perhaps if they included him in the deal for Halladay, we would still have our prospects and perhaps, dare I say it, Lee for one more year. An outfield of Ibanez, Werth and Taylor/Brown, while not defensively spectacular, would've been suitable for the next few years.— mdriban
- I think the phillies should offer Werth a 3 year, $30 million dollar deal that would keep him here until 2013. The way the free agent market has played out this offseason, outfielders are no longer commanding as much...Jason Bay 4 yrs 16.5 per, Matt Holliday 7 yrs 17 per, Chone Figgins 4yr 9 per, Vlad Guerrero 1 yr 5 mil. Jayson will be heading into his 32 year old season in 2011, which is prime for a non HGH player, but his stats and projection should have him earning a contract comparable to Ibanez, who had 4 100 rbi+ seasons and narrowly missed a 5th because of injury last year. 2011 also takes Moyer off the books, so that offsets Werth's increase and leaves a surplus...I would rather have Werth locked up than Ibanez...Dom Brown can wait until 2011, 2012 if necessary to replace raul, when he will still only be 24 years old and we will have a cheap stud outfielder and money to resign Howard, Utley, a new SS, and SP.— tkohl
- Ross Gload sounds made up.— Rantastic
- Come on!!! Negadelphia strikes again!! Andy - are you really playing up the downside of the Phillies spending money on two reliable players at a fair price? How spoiled we've become. Jeez.— jjbrett23
- hoew do we cycle in young farm talent?— robinlupe
- I've been worried about Werth. We have to keep him. Resigning Howard is not going to be an option, so Werth is our sole long-term power hitter. Plus he does everything in the field. Werth is more valuable than Victorino -- I'd rather have both though— AllDawk_AllTheTime
- "the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee" and 2 draft picks. Don't forget the compensatory draft picks. Just one less than the 3 prospects.— P Even
- @P Even: True about the draft picks. Just playing devil's advocate: The prospects are much closer to the majors than a draft pick in 2010 would be.— mgelb
- I would offer Werth 5 years $65M. The Phils can backload some of it to relieve the budgetary pressures in 2011. Once we get past 2011, Ibanez's deal will be done and Brown can replace him in the lineup. Werth is the only strong RH bat we have the lineup to protect Howard and Utley, so letting him walk or trading him does not seem like a viable option. Plus, he can play all 3 outfield positions rather well, which gives the team some flexibility were someone to get injured. The bigger question is what will this team do with Hamels after 2011? He's going to command a huge deal - along with Howard, and I don't see the Phils offering a 7 year $140M contract to keep him.— themadhacker2000
- werth is our best player in terms of being good at baseball and also not a jerk. Future cigar smoking pictures and funny quotes are werth keeping him.— spags
- Let me get this straight, mdriban: so although Victorino has improved every year he's been a Phillie, to this point, you think he's peaked at 29 years-old? Not sure I follow your logic...— The Pack Leader
- You are making a big assumption the Raul Ibanez ($12.167M) and Brad Lidge ($12M) will still be here. Raul will be 38. Brad Lidge had some rough times last year, and his injuries are getting more frequent. I think both will be replaced by Phillies prospects by 2011, and that would free up 24M to sign Werth. No worries mate!— Tom98786
- Move Ibanez and keep Werth.— jonnyb0916
- Am I missing something here? There is no salary cap (see Yankees) so why is there all of this talk about limiting the payroll. This is the problem with Phils management. It is really about money and not about winning. If it was about winning, they would pay the $$ to keep this team intact. This franchise has been making so much $$ over the past few years, a few extra million wouldn't hurt the cheap owners. Add to that the taxpayer funded stadium that has added millions to the value of this franchise. That is money the taxpayers will not see back. While I know the Phils have spent to win, they are essentially admitting that after 2010-2011, they are going to take a few years off from trying to win. So be honest when you write these articles. They HAVE the money, it is not like it is not there. It is just they don't want to spend it.— 23
Comment removed.- JJBRETT, take your thumb out of your mouth please. Its a legitimate point to bring up. The fact is that a core player (Werth) is getting ready to get Jason Bay cash and its a realistic concern that the phillies can't keep a young, core player. Why is that being negative?? since this is his contract year people will start asking the phillies what their plans are in respect to Werth. Its inevitable. Contract issues are a major part of any intelligent fans outlook for their team. unless your the yankees or bosox, you just cant field a high priced player at every position. I don't see how they can keep Werth, and Im honestly not sure if he's worth $17 million/year either when you have so many other high priced players already. Its an interesting debate. Rollins is due soon, howard has 2 years left, Ibanez 2 years, Cole 2 years. Who do you keep and let go?— sjmatt99
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- I thought the trading of Michael Taylor cemented the likely retention of JDub. They'll move some money around to accomodate him. He is absolutely needed in this lineup.— Rick Wise Guy
- I like Werth but his numbers are inflated. Playing behind Utley and Howard and half his games in CBP add about 10 homeruns and 20 rbi's a season. He is going to get a lot of money when he signs a deal, with us or somebody else. I don't think he is going to be worth the money he gets.— Bob from SW
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phils mgmt knows what they are doing to almost maximize talent within a projcted budget. i simply dont believe that 3 years of joe blanton for $24 million is better than 1 year of cliff lee for $9.- The Phil's had the chance to overtake the Yankees as baseball's dynasty team simply by keeping Lee. The better your team is the more money the team makes. This is logical business sense but unknown persons of the team's ownership are inept to see the obvious.— Wm Penn
- LOL. Let's all worry about 2011!!! All together now....woe is us, woe is us, woe is us. We have too many good players and we have to paaayyyyyy them! Woe is us. I wonder how these writers get out of bed in the morning without their roadmaps. Maybe the publishers should buy them all GPS's— jjk3
- I dont see RAJ letting Werth go. He is a solid righty in a loaded lefty lineup.— barefoot
- Werth is still improving and capable of an MVP season. He is a key cog in the Phillies lineup crushing lefties while Howard crushes righties. I heard of the Victorino signing and felt this makes it more likely that Werth stays since both Victorino and Blanton were locked up for lower than market contracts. Expect revenues to grow by 15-20% or even more if the economy starts to recover, so the Phillies shouldn't have to dump good players for payroll purposes.— jtj06
- Yes, Hamels and Howard are also free agents after 2011. This team will be radically different in 2012. They should really be going for it in 2010 and/or 2011. Which is another reason why the Lee trade was so puzzling. There just was no logical reason to not keep him for this one year at his bargain salary of $9m.— lefty13153
- I'd love to keep werth, I just don't think it will be in the cards. This is where a good farm comes into play. We will never have Yankee money to pay 20 superstars. We need to fill the rest of the roster in with low cost, inhouse guys from our farm. I can see Werth getting traded or let go for draft pics. We won't be able to afford him. I think it was either Vic or J Dub. They went with Vic— Goirish77
- If Werth has another great year keep him, it's only money.— Wm Penn
- Am I the only one who is sick of seeing Shane pop up to the shortstop, make hideous baserunning blunders and talk smack on umpires.. While i understand the Phillies were limited with their choices for outfield.. im not about to get all excited because they extended this guy.. Werth is a guy that can carry a team during a slide.. he has power to all parts of the yard and is a above average arm in right field.. It will be interesting however to see how this lineup will unfold.. Shane may end up batting 7th in front of Ruiz.. talk about your rally killer..— Howard_Eskin_
- nickpa1- Get off it bro ! Im not going to say it again, Lee is GONE, GONE, GONE ! I'll hold your hand like a small child, GONE !— Will.i.Am
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- One guy mentioned that Moyer comes off the books next year and that should be taken into account. That is already factored in, since the 129 mil figure is what is committed to 14 players not including him. If Ruben is looking to shed salary, it depends on certain other things. Does Lidge bounce back? If not they might trade him, and resign Madson to close. Lidge is at 12 mil. If he does bounce back, then Madson could be allowed to go on the market, but only if one of the other BP guys, like Baez or Bastardo steps up, or Romero comes back strong, or the big kid from Seattle moves up. Of course, Ibanez might be moved if he shows signs of decline, and have a platoon of Francisco and Brown until Brown is ready to take over left full time. All this is by way of saying that if Ruben doesn't find a way to extend Werth, its a big, big mistake. He likes it here enough that he will not be crazy in his demands, and he is not a Boras client. Chase is Werth's big buddy, and he may be influenced by Chase's attitude of getting a nice but modest contract that leaves cash on the table in exchange for years and stability. Werth is a great athlete who will be productive until his late 30's. I have no problem giving him a backloaded contract of 6 or 7 years for 85-95 mil. SOMEONE has to provide righthanded power to protect what will be a heavily lefthanded lineup for some time to come. We just can't let Werth go.— laser5
- I think you're going onto an awfully thin branch with this. Why wouldn't Werth display the very same attitude that Blanton did? This IS the place to play right now, and if it costs a million or two a year to stay and have a chance to win, I think they'd choose the opportunity to win. This headline is nothing more than sensationalism.— Tomahawk37
- I understand the Werth point, but why are we so quick to want to run a good player out of town? Dominic Brown should be the LF of the future with Raul out the door, perhaps someone (read Yankees or Red Sox) with some money with give us a reasonable youngster when they need a vetran bat mid-season.— SNEAKYPETE
- werth is much much better than victorino.— sendhelp
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- sorry- but i'd still take one year of greatness (halladay, lee, hamels, blanton) vs 3 years of very good. how good did "very good" feel to everyone in the years prior to 2008? felt to me like the eagles feel right now.— stopbooing
- ps- i'll stop whining about the lee trade now! i hope it doesn't wind up being ruben's folly...go phils!— stopbooing
- Beep Beep Beep this should be the sound that the bank truck is backing up to Werth's door. The Phillies need to pay him whatever he needs to stay in a Phillies uniform. I'm personally enjoying these trips to the post season. if they do not sign him and he walks So will I as a Phillies fan! Kiss the post season good bye! I'm sure the Phillies will part with some more money since they will see this season as with last that If you put these players on the field we will come to games and spend lots of money while we are there at the Bank!— ONLYinPhilly
- The madehacker hit the nail on the head...a backloaded contract will get a deal done with Werth...Werth (whether you want to believe it) is one of the top OF's in the game...A true 5 tool guy that can play all three OF positions...get the deal done now...The Yankees and Redsox will be drooling if he hits the free agent market...if you have to unload Raul next year (and pick up some money), so be it...— Discostu
- Just because we signed Vic to a 3 year deal doesn't mean he'll be in Philly for all 3 years. This deal, in addition to keeping a good player on our roster, also makes Vic more attractive to a trade partner in that he is locked up at an "affordable" rate. I see Vic as the one to go if they want to keep Werth and project Brown to be major league ready in 2011. I don't see Raul going anywhere at his age with that contract as baggage.— vafan
- I like the Victorino signing, Blanton less so; the Phillies, however, really need to keep Werth for right-handed power balance in the lineup. Funny thing about cost certainty; as owner of two season tickets, I would like some cost certainty for 2011 and beyond. This season, for example, our tickets cost over $9,000 as the Phillies raised ticket prices yet again. Doubtless, they will sign me to a long-term deal so I, too, can have cost certainty.— chuckw
- Umm, we need to have at least ONE good right-handed hitter on this team. Unless Brown is ready to be an above-average RF by 2011, that person has to be Werth.— Bobby G
- What is a "Ross Gload"?? LOL. Is this David Bell coming back in disguise? In that case the number should only be $1,600.— baabyrrej
- What is a "Ross Gload"?? LOL. Is this David Bell coming back in disguise? In that case the number should only be $1,600.— baabyrrej
- Raise ticket prices if necessary. I'm sure most people don't mind paying extra to keep the team competitive. Another factor to consider; the Phillies can afford to spend more because most of the salary money they pay out comes from the revenue sharing they receive.— Air Force One
Sometime this year, either trade Werth or Brown for a front line starter. Raul isn't going anywhere because of his age. We'll probably have to go get a leftfielder on the FA market by 2012 but that wouldn't be such a bad thing given that the Werth/Brown trade got us a solid #3/4 quality starter, such as Ross Ohlendorf from the Buccos.- Sign Werth long term, in 2011 move Ryan Howard to the AL before his numbers start to really fall off, bring Brown up to play OF and move Werth or Ibanez to 1B. Werth can bat 4th and give us the same numbers as Howard, with fewer strikeouts and more stolen bases. Plus he'll break up the lefty logjam.— lefty1117
- Domonic Brown has alot to prove. He ended the Arizona Fall League going 0 for 22 and hit .229 for the AFL season. He told Comcast Sportsnet aferwards he was tired. His outfield defense was suspect when I saw him play at Clearwater and Reading. We will know soon if he is refreshed when he reports to major league spring training camp. The rubber will meet the road.— Dull
- We need Werth. Victorino is a jerk and way way way overrated. Werth is a fantastic athlete. I would love to see him spend at LEAST five more years here.— PhilliesNut
- Keep this in mind: If Werth goes and Ibanez stays, Domonic Brown is a lefty, which means we would have no righty in our lineup. i think RAJ has got to find a way to keep werth in the fold, whatever it takes— philsfan94
- Keep this in mind: If Werth goes and Ibanez stays, Domonic Brown is a lefty, which means we would have no righty in our lineup. i think RAJ has got to find a way to keep werth in the fold, whatever it takes— philsfan94
- Will somebody pay me 2 Million? I can hit the ball on the ground back to the pitcher? Hello? Anybody?— neddyflanders
- One of the OFs will go when Dom Brown is ready. Bank on it being Victorino.— Bake McBride
- The Phillies had Halladay and Lee together for a few hours. That's the end of that dream. Oh, what could have been.— Gus L.
- Nope, I'd still rather have Lee for 1 year to take serious run, than the fat kid for 3 years. Blanton is a mediocre pitcher that we just handed $24M.— kozykoz26
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- yeah Werth will demand I think at least 12 million a season.— wolfburn
- I like Blanton, but I'd rather have Lee. Would have been completely fine with getting the compensatory draft picks when he left for a huge payday. Having a one-two of Roy and Cliff would have been tough to top. Happy that we are keeping Shane though.— johndenny
- I would keep Werth over Victorino in a nanosecond.— gluteman
- Werth is going to get PAID bigtime in the near future.— Ryan
- As long as Ross Gload is locked up for '10 the Phils are fine.— The Selector
- Werth's not going anywhere. What a moronic assertion!!! Give it a break with trying to make news instead of reporting it.— Phillyexp
- Everybody else likes to play GM so here goes. Move Howard after this year. He is going to want 30M per year. He is not really worth it, too streaky and too many Ks. Trade him to the AL for a starting pitcher(Lee?). Move Ibanez to first. Re-up Wertz and put Brown in LF.— FlAJOE
- @laser5 -- you're going to trade Lidge if he doesn't bounce back and trade Ibanez if he shows signs of decline. If Lidge has an ERA over 7.00 and Ibanez starts to look old, who exactly do you think you're going to trade them to? ... @BakeMcBride -- You know Victorino and Dom Brown don't play the same position, don't you?— GoPhilsGo
- In no way am I downplaying the importance of Ryan Howard and his game changing ability when he's on and I truly like the guy, but recipe for disaster is giving any player on a team, more than 100 million dollars. It can really set the team back. Look no further than the contracts for Zito, Mike Hampton, Carlos Lee to name a few. Fact of the matter is that 1B offensive production is the easiest kind to replace. No many people will put up the numbers Howard has, but if you can afford a slight drop off in offensive production at 1B, make the other parts of your team better (ie, retaining Werth, Victorino, Ruiz, etc.) then I'm all for it. I don't see how we can keep Howard, and I see the Red Sox as a possible suitor with Ortiz declining each year. Bottom Line: Keep Werth if you know you can't resign Howard. We need a good RH Bat. People fail to mention that our line up will be even more LH Heavy if we lose Werth.— PhillyPhan35
- Werth is not going anywhere. If someone is traded it will be Victorino, becasue we have CF depth in our system. Nobody will take on Ibañez salary and Werth is the ONLY RH power guy in the entire organization. If I were RAJ I would approach Werth in mid-season to a 3-4 extension. Then wait until Raul's contract runs out and call one of the kids up.— EL Zorro
- It's called inflation. We ordinary people have to live with it everyday, it is time that the Phillies understoodd that too. Prices for everything go up. Sure, I would love to pay 2007 prices for gas and food. Not gonna happen. And, I have no say in the matter. Same with the Phillies. You have to pay the market value so budgets creep up each year, regardless of who says it must stay at 2009 levels. They will find that the biggest budgeting blunder in this regard is not paying Cliff Lee to stick around for 2010 when they could easily have done that for a mere $9 mil. No reason why Lee and Halladay are not pitching on the Phillies this year. No one can convincingly make that arguement. It was practically a 2010 World Series stone cold lock.— trainrdt
- Werth could play center.— EL Zorro
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- Werth is the best player of the three outfielders and arguably the 3rd best player on the team behind Utley and Howard. As a Yankees fan Ill take him in a New York minute.— MBFlyerfan
- I love some of you guys writing, "Oh, if Lidge doesn't bounce back, the Phillies will just get rid of him" ...or "The Phils can always trade Ibanez and use his money to keep Werth." First of all, if Lidge doesn't bounce back, you couldn't find a team on Earth that would take Lidge and his $12M. Second, even if Ibanez is solid again, no team is going to take a 38 yr old making $11M. The only way the Philles keep Werth is if they either a) increase payroll, or b) heavily backload his contract. I don't see either of those things happening (Phils won't increase payroll and Werth will want his money ASAP) and that's why Dominic Brown is and has been "untouchable". They view him as Werth's replacement.— Billy The Kid
- From Rich Allen @ 12:23 PM..."Sometime this year, either trade Werth or Brown for a front line starter. Raul isn't going anywhere because of his age. We'll probably have to go get a leftfielder on the FA market by 2012 but that wouldn't be such a bad thing given that the Werth/Brown trade got us a solid #3/4 quality starter, such as Ross Ohlendorf from the Buccos." ...so you're saying the Phillies should trade Werth or their #1 prospect for Ross Ohlendorf?!?!?!? That better be a joke!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! ...if it's not a joke, you want in my fantasy baseball league?— Billy The Kid
- With 2011 seemingly being the "magic year", would the Phils "go for broke" next year, looking at losing a few guys for 2012 (Rollins)??— mbegatto
- Gotta find a way to keep JW!
- Billy The Kid--check the stats on Ohlendorf before you laugh...I live closer to Pittsburgh and get all their games here. This guy is a horse, and had a better WHIP than Blanton. He won 11 games for a pitiful last place team with no defense and has great control. You'll see him in the All-Star Game this year or next. With Werth it will be about money. If he gets traded they're not going to get as much as anyone thinks--just look at the Cliff Lee giveaway. Ohlendorf or a young righthanded stud is as much as they can hope for.
- It COSTS MONEY to have a WINNING TEAM! That is a fact the Phillies aren't willing to accept. The more you win the more you have to pay. The Phillies AREN'T WILLING to pay what takes to be a consistent winner. They proved that with the Cliff Lee trade AND THEN LIED ABOUT IT. All they care about is making sure Bill Giles and the group of Investors that own the team, get a nice FAT DIVIDEND check at the end of the year.— Grapost
- Ohlendorf is a very good, underated pitcher on a very bad team, however, keep in mind that Werth or any player about to hit Free Agency is not what the Pirates want. They are a cheap franchise and would want Brown, a player with no service time and is controllable for 6 years.— PhillyPhan35
- ESPN is reporting that pending a physical we've signed Jose Contreras to a 1 year deal— cg
- My guess is there planning on Brown being the "cheap" option in the outfield at that point. If things don't work in the minors with him this year, I guess they'll need a different plan. I understand the notion of backloading a deal for Werth, but does he want it backloaded? What if the Yankees or Red Sox level the money or pay more up front? How would you like to be reimbursed? I understand the Phillies are contenders and should be for a while, but they're not the only ones. He doesn't have to give up the playoffs to get paid.— kmon
- I think that one thing people don't realize is that the $140M payroll is only the public figures for what the ownership pays out. Think about all of your marketing people, your broadcasters, public relations, concessions, people that clean the stadium, grounds crew, GM, scouts, coaches, assistant GMs, security, people that take your tickets, ushers, not to mention the bills like water and electric that have to be outrageous during home games. People also seem to forget that we have one of the highest payrolls in baseball and our owner isn't named Steinbrenner. Just because you don't put out as much in payroll doesn't mean you're not a competitive team, look at the Twins. In 2009 we had the 7th highest payroll in baseball and only 3 of the teams ahead of us made the playoffs, NYY, BOS, and LAA. Only the Cubs and Mets spent more than us in the NL.— cg
- Dom Brown may force a change in the OF picture in 2011, then Anthony Gose in 2012.— Romus
- Wow, so many fools want Howard gone! Are you kidding me??? The guy who carried the team on his shoulders the last 4 years is Ryan. He isn untouchable!!! Why did they trade Michael Taylor again? he was ready to come up, but they would rather keep the older players... kinda like what they did to Ryan Howard. Look out for Taylor starting somewhere this year...— Bigbadrookie
- I'm a big fan of JW. Love his OF play, his throwing accuracy, his base-running, base-stealing, baseball savvy and intelligence, and his enthusiasm. Not too many five-hole hitters like him in the Majors. UNLESS they are SURE not to be a Playoff competitor, this guy MUST remain in Philly.— TBear
- The Lee point was not that simple we didn't just give up Lee a year early for three prospects. If the Phillies kept Lee for this year and then let him walk the Phillies get 2 extra draft picks, including one first round pick and one supplemental inbetween first and second round pick. So the Phils had two choices, trade Lee for 3 prospects NOW (and struggle at the back of the rotation), OR keep Lee for a year and get 2 extra draft picks before the first round (and have a much more solid rotation in Halladay, Hamels, Lee, Happ, Blanton). The second option sounds more reasonable to me. I wonder if the Phils were scared Lee would have a bad year? Or they have A LOT of faith in Aumont. I don't know it doesn't make sense.— phasor
- Not saying Ohlendorf won't be a decent pitcher someday but he's hardly proven anything. He's had one solid season (more on that in a second). You don't give up Jayson Werth, salary dump or not, for an unproven pitcher. Nor do you give up Brown, a guy WHO YOU WOULDN'T INCLUDE IN A TRADE FOR ROY HALLADAY in a trade for Ross Ohlendorf. In any case, Ross Ohlendorf gave up 25 HR's in what most consider a pitcher's park and his BABIP (.260-ish) last year would suggest he was among the more lucky pitchers in baseball. If RAJ traded either of those guys for Ross Ohlendorf, he'd be skewered in this town and across baseball. Period. End of conversation.— Billy The Kid
- why is it always "either or" Win in 2010 adn the $ take care of itself. Small market mentality...— LA Mike
Werth has proven to be a fine outfielder and clutch playoff hitter. Loosen the purse strings and sign the guy. Raul is only here for 2 more years then 10 mil comes off the books and Brown will be cheap replacement. Brown/Vic/Werth outfield in 2 years? WOW! Giving that up because of money constrains is foolish.— tpizza- Small market mentality? They have one of the top 5 payrolls in baseball you clown! Unfortunately, they don't have the unlimited money to spend that comes with owning their own cable station (see: Red Sox and Yankees). get a clue and you won't look like such a dill hole when you post.— Billy The Kid
- How much money is Werth making? 7mil. Well, by 2011 Jamie's salary will be off the payroll and Ibañez the following year, right?. We can afford to extend Werth for, less say, 12-13 mil a year. Like I said, Vic is the one being traded after next season.— EL Zorro
- The ink hasn't even dried on Victorino's extension and you're already worrying about re-signing Werth next off-season? Give me a break. Last year was Werth's first full season as a starter. The guy has had a lot of injuries in his past. Who knows what kind of season he'll end up having or if he even stays healthy. Hopefully, he has a great season and we have a great problem on our hands...re-sign a very good player or lose him and get some high draft picks because he'll definitely be a Type A free-agent if he has a similar season.— JimG
- If they let him walk they will be werthless. heh heh— Eddie Spaghetti
- Werth will walk at anything less than 7 years $95M. He is the only reason we got as far as 5 games . Everybody else stunk up the joint.— daffydux
- Cole Hamels = $9.5M . Highway robbery Cole . Know your role you fool.— daffydux
- the only way the phils keep werth is by moving ibanez,makes sense for more than money reasons also,werths power right handed bat is huge in this lineup,ibanez is just another left hander not needed,werth is 5 tool player,pay him like one— soliteryman
- Andy, I think the Phils had to try harder to keep Cliff Lee. You mention perhaps that the Phils might trade Raul Ibanez in the future. Why didn't Ruben consider trading him in December, instead of trading Lee. Blanton didn't have to be traded; why not trade Ibanez instead? As good and likable as Raul was last year, he probably isn't getting better, not at his age. Werth, if he stays healthy, is a huge key to the Phils' future.— 76erfn
- @GoPhilsGo; My thinking on Lidge is that if he has a not so good year, but something better than last years wipeout, and still has some value, maybe we could move him to a team that needs a closer with some experience, even if some cash is involved, as a salary dump in which we get some nominal value in return. With Ibanez, his decline will affect his legs first, so he would be a possibility for an AL team that needs a DH from the left side, again, with some cash considerations involved. Remember when Gillick purged the roster in '05 before the break, moving Bell and Abreu, and others. I know, its just speculation, but maybe it could work that way. We have some live young arms, and a 5 tool OF waiting in the wings, all cheap, so its going to get down to a choice between Howard and Werth, or Werth and several others. The Phillies absolutely cannot afford to lose both Howard and Werth. That's the bottom line.— laser5
- Phills need Werth to give balance to their team, Howard, Utley, Ibanez and down the road Brown all are lefty swingers Jayson is the only power bat from the right side. Amaro knows this and will try to keep Werth.— Don w
- "So instead, the team chose three years of an affordable Joe Blanton along with three prospects over one year of Cliff Lee. Will that backfire? It's certainly possible" Just like it would have been moronic to trade Steve Carlton in his prime for one mediocre pitcher and three mediocre prospects, it was moronic to sign a mediocre pitcher like Joe Blanton for three years and acquire three mediocre prospects instead of retaining World Series hero Cliff Lee for the 2010 season. All that's going to happen in 2010 is the Phillies are going to finish in fourth place behind the Mets, Marlins and Braves, and the Phillies are going to rename Harry the K's after Chris Wheeler.— Gnip Gnop
- Let Brown play this September, if he performs, trade Raul. Between the money saved with Moyer and Raul the Phils can pay Werth.— Andrewsgvl
- i still don,t understand the cliff lee trade. please explain that to me again.— phillyfrank1
- actually, 129M to 16 players. we got 4 arb-eligible players (Ruiz, Francisco, Kendrick, Dobbs) -> appro. 5M ,also 4 players under the control (Happ, Bastardo, Escalona) and 2 major-ready rookies(Brown, Mithieson). -> 2M that's 136M to 26players, Andy. we have only 3 FA after '10 season (Moyer, Werth, Durbin). yes, we can't afford to make werth stay without extending the budget.— illrhyme
I have a feeling this will be a fun season. How much longer..........— verve- 1)Dom Brown isn't ready. The man still struggles catching balls in the outfield. Its a long shot he'll be ready by 2011. 2)Matt Gelb wrote this blog, not Andy Martino. 3)Starkist is the best brand for canned tuna.
- Jayson Werth is a key element in the Phillies lineup, his rh power, his baserunning and his outfield play make him essential in a overall way to the Phillies. I would do what I had to do to sign him to a 3yr deal— BobA881
- Love what the Phillies have been doing and think RAJ gets it. I'm know spoiled and likes the whole winning thing and I believe we can be competitive for years to come, but we need to keep the core together and I do like Shane, but I think Werth is on his way to becoming one of the best outfielders in the game and team are taking notice. This is a guy who needs to be a Phillies for a long long time and just have Brown replace Raul when his contract is up. Either way we'll be in it until the end of 2011 for sure and then it's anybodies guess.— Kingsreject
Re-sign and backload Werths contract and then unfortunately say adios to Ryan Howard who is going to command 2x of what Werth's contract will be. That gives you 2010- 2011 of an optimum roster. Then you begin to undergo significant changes - Ryan Howard. Move Werth to First and let those highly touted prospects(Brown-Gose-Gillies) fill the corner OF slots— argonne- If we have to let go of Werth because of Victorino/Ibanez contracts, that will be ridiculous. Victorino is so overrrated. He has no power for a centerfielder and is clueless on the bases. Werth is a player you keep around, and to say you can't afford him because you tiied up 5 mil here and 10 mil there on slightly above average players is a joke. Ruben is just preparing us for the inevitable.— simplejack
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- Would performance in 2010 season play any role in these machinations (he asked sarcastically)?— Syd
- I agree w/ the importance of keeping Werth. If he has another season like 2009, he'll probably end up in the $14-15MM/yr range in the FA market. If he likes being here as much as he claims, the Phils might get him for a 4/50 deal. People look at the Halladay/Lee deal the wrong way. In the end, the Phils got Halladay for less than the asking price last summer, and they swapped Carrasco, Donald, and Marson for the three Seattle guys, who IMO are better prospects. And they got half a season of Lee as well. You need to look at the whole thing, not just individual pieces.— mbphilly
- I dont agree that Werth is more valuable than Shane. To Phills team Jayson has extra value since he bats righty (and is an impact hitter vrs. lefties) and team faces more lefties than any team and is unbalanced on the leftside. Amaro knows this and will try to sign Werth. The fact that Phills face so many lefthanders and he bats between Howard and Ibanez is to his advantage. To this point Jayson has been a 250 hitter vrs, righties. Jayson has shown some improvement against righties and I hope it continues. Im a fan of Werth he's a fairly complete player but I would like to see imrovement vrs righthanders. If its true Lee was seeking 6 year contract I can understand Amaro's reluctance to sign him.— Don w
- I hate to complain because they did win a WS and go back last year but...Tere is NO DOUBT that they didn't re-sign Lee because of money!!! They could have still re-upped with Blanton and gotten the two compensatory picks, one of which might be ready when Blanton's 3 years are up. As for Werth, the better he does the less likely we are to keep him. Read my lips THERE IS NO WAY THE PHILS PAY JASON WERTH, THIS IS HIS LAST SEASON IN PHILLY, NO MATTER WHAT ANDY "I HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE PHILS TO GET ACCESS AND DO MY JOB" MARTINO SAYS THE PHILLIES COULD PAY WERTH IF THEY WANTED TO!!! Again, I do hate to complain, but as of 2007 this team was widely considered the cheapest team in sports except maybe the LA Clippers. This was and is ABSOLUTELY DESERVED AND CORRECT!!! Fourth largest TV market, sold out almost every game, 2008 World Series Champs and all the marketing/merchandise/TV/ticket money that comes with it, 2009 NL Champs and all the marketing/merchandise/TV/ticket money that comes with it. Andy Martino (and Paul Hagen and all the media that feed you the Phils BS) should be ashamed of themselves. GO PHILS!!!!— elbc
That Werth. "The hair's too long. Their beards are too evident. They're a grubby-looking bunch of caterwaulers." - Bill Werber, who until his recent death was the oldest living ex-major leaguer (at age 100).— COskier- Jason Werth is the stud right hander this lineup requires and he may only get better. He does it all (5 tools) and that is something Howard doesn't do. Love Howard but at the end of his contract, he has to go. JMJr is a super defensive 1B man with some pop (RH) and Ross Gload the same but LH. That combo would be a good platoon to cover first. Got to keep Werth period. I hope the Stanford guy at GM realizes that as well.— 32streetrat
- Werth is way to valuable to let go! 30 hrs 20+ steals, excellent fielder with a good arm all from the right side. All he needs to do is become more consistent, try to prevent those weeks where he can't hit anything on the outside of the plate. Way to valuable to let go.— dwagne
- Jayson is amazing. He is worth every money. basketball odds (HTML deleted)
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
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Bob Brookover
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