How should the Phillies fill fifth outfield spot?
News blogs, sports blogs, entertainment blogs, and more from Philly.com, The Philadelphia Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily News.
How should the Phillies fill fifth outfield spot?
Bob Brookover, Inquirer Baseball Columnist
Examining the current configuration of the Phillies' 40-man roster and the list of non-roster invitees, the team's most glaring need with 53 days remaining before the start of spring training is another right-handed outfield bat off the bench.
And even that need is not very glaring because, as my colleague Matt Gelb pointed out in this space earlier this month, the job could disappear as soon as Ryan Howard returns from the disabled list.
That role a year ago belonged to John Mayberry Jr. and Ben Francisco and they did fantastic work.
Mayberry, in fact, was so good that he took on a more prominent role after the All-Star break and earned the right to replace Raul Ibanez as the team's primary left fielder in 2012.
Francisco, after botching his chance to become the everyday right fielder last April, actually did a solid job off the bench in the second half and, of course, won Game 3 of the NLDS by blasting a three-run home run in St. Louis. He is now in Toronto after recently being traded for local minor-league lefty Frank Gailey.
If the Phillies' budget for the fifth outfielder is roughly the $1.5 million that Francisco probably would have earned as an arbitration-eligible player, it will be interesting to see who they can get in that price range.
Jonny Gomes, coming off a dreadful season with Cincinnati and Washington, could probably be had for less than that amount. Scott Hairston, a solid bench player with some power, also would probably be willing to come aboard for an amount slightly north of $1 million.
It would be interesting if the Phillies wanted to significantly upgrade the bench by paying more for an extra outfielder. In order to do that, they would likely have to commit to an 11-man pitching staff rather than the 12 that manager Charlie Manuel and pitching coach Rich Dubee have typically preferred. Given the ability of the top three men in the rotation to go deep into games, we know that the Phillies are one of the few teams in baseball that can even consider an 11-man staff.
Should they choose to go to 11 and invest more heavily in an extra outfielder who can hit from the right side, some of the options become very interesting. The most intriguing is Cody Ross, the man who destroyed their 2010 dream of reaching a third straight World Series.
Ross, who turned 31 six days ago, has recently been linked to Colorado, but as of right now he is still on the open market. He is not worth the $6.3 million the San Francisco Giants paid him last season, but if he'd be willing to come to Philadelphia for around $3 million, that would be a good investment.
Ryan Ludwick, 33, is also still a free agent. It would be fascinating to see how many home runs he could hit at Citizens Bank Park and since he's coming off consecutive disappointing seasons his price tag should not be too exorbitant.
It's also entirely possible the Phillies spend as little as possible for the fifth outfielder with the intent of saving payroll space for the trade deadline. Injuries, of course, are inevitable and having money to spend at the deadline when needs are more identifiable could be far more valuable than any player they can add before the start of spring training.
Comments (65)
Where's Warbiscuit with his standard demonic diatribe...— stan the man too- Cody Ross is a marginal player who gets hot every once in awhile. I watched him enough down here in Marlinville for years......Gomes, please...he shouldn't even still be in MLB....Ludwick? Never really liked the guy, never figured out how he had that one good year in StL and no other years before or after....Hairston? There has always been a Hairston available, but none have ever seemingly wanted to land here.....but I think if he is probably willing to come aboard for a cool $1 mil, then the Phillies should consider signing me, because my badly eroding skills are about the same as what this weaker Hairston has to offer. I'd even give them a hometown discount and settle for $900k......— Mark1npt
- Ludwick yes. These other guys - why??? Cuddyer was our man.— Phillyexp
- Sign first here Mark1npt: I have my agent papers in the mail to you. Can do better than Boras on this one. Let's go for it.— 24sDad
- I think that they need someone who will be comfortable in the role. I like Hairston. Ryan Spilborghs is another guy who might be a nice fit. Ross still sees himself as a part-timer and Ludwick probably also is looking for more than a 5th outfielder role.— willthethrill11
- Why would you go out and get another OF? Howard will be back in June and you wont be able to find innings for Wigginton. Nix or Wiggy become your 5th OF, when Howard is back.— FABER
- Me, I'd solve that problem by signing Ryan Madson to a one-year deal. But I'll wait for Ruben, thanks. At least it's a baseball article on 12/29.— PhillySubsMac
- Let us forget about the fifth outfielder and try to sign Madson for one year, say at 6-7 million. (HTML deleted)— fish1463
- 6-7- Million would probably be likea slap in the face when he thought he was about to get 11 mil a year don't you think? — tsump
- They better have a good plan B in case Mayberry pulls a Francisco. Why in god's name are they AGAIN relying on an unknown to play a corner position that has never done it before in the bigs? Did they not learn a thing about Ben Francisco?— twpman
- I thought Ty Wigginton was this person. Against lefties, Wigginton plays first and Mayberry plays left. Against righties, Nix plays left and Mayberry or (in a pinch) Thome plays first. Making a move for a 5th RF bat who may be waived when Howard returns doesn't seem like a crisis to me. Most guys even of Gomes or Hairston level don't want to be in that precarious of a position.— eman
- wigginton is your fifth outfielder..you only have an extra roster spot until Howard comes back, and you can use Pete Orr or Michael Martinez for that...in retrospect, with Nix signing, Thome was really unnecessary...they would have been better off with a Spillboroughs, etc who would give them more flexibility...— jim715
Comment removed.- Yes, where is the babbling of the bellicose bizkit?— BEMiller
- What about Lenny?— cadilacjack
- What about Scott Podsednik, he's a non-roster invitee? He was injured last year but when healthy is something currently lacking on the bench decent speed and high on base percentage. I think speed off the bench is more important than another right handed bat. Who would pitch run now for Thome or Howard in the late innings, Valdez?— RyanMcCormick
- Bring back Pat the Bat!— Joe Lis lives
- Comment removed.
- Podsednik bats left. With Thome and Nix already lefties, Bob is probably correct that a RH outfielder would be best. With Howard coming back and with no real change toward youth anywhere I would be tempted to use someone from AAA or AA until Howard returns. But two of the best options, Podsednik and Brandon Moss (Moss had a good year in AAA in 2011) are both LH. As is Brown.— s
- I go with the Madson ploy for one yr. And see if our lack of hitting can be overcome with a killer Pen. BTW, Jose Con. will never come back like he was. Why even consider him when the club has so many good arms for the Pen??? Doesn't make sense.— Koons
- Contreras is considered because he's still under contract through 2012. They have to see if they can get anything out of him before simply eating that money. He could return and be useful in the 7th and 8th innings. I think he's supposed to start throwing in January.
— s - Michael Martinez looks like the fifth outfielder if Howard starts out on the DL. The fifth outfielder also usually plays the infield as well like Martinez does. When Howard is back Martinez goes to AAA and Wiggy becomes the 5th outfielder as Mayberry goes back to left field from first base. But by then one or more position players on the opening day roster will likely be on the DL too if last year was any indication of what to expect this season.
Another story will be what will the AAA outfield look like with young prospects like Domonic Brown in left and Derrick Mitchell in center hopefully playing for the Pigs everyday. Mitch is currently playing well in his brief trip to the Venezuelan Winter League hitting .333 with a couple of homers and three doubles an in his ten games down there so far but that league's regular season comes to an end tomorrow night. They also have minor league veterans that they are so fond of to play for the Pigs in the outfield like Podsednik, Thompson and Montanez. Hopefully they go young at AAA for a change and have Brown and Mitchell out there everyday.
— Dull - Comment removed.
- LOL!!!! Well put! — justacarpenter
- Kinda fun playing around with the possibilities until you get to the last paragraph. It read like "never mind!".— jszulewski
- Lets stop looking for the needle in a hay stack player. Give us a hitting coach that can teach the clowns how to swing the bat.— old SC Frank
- The Phillies have so many different moving parts (is Mayberry playing first to open the season, do they consider Wiggy more than just an infielder these days), and the fact that they do have power in the form of bench personnel (Nix,Wiggy,Thome)...there's one thing they do lack in the outfield depth...speed and defense... While I really like Spilborghs, he won't come bargain basement cheap. I love Rich Thompson, who has no chance, gets no respect, and like Moss,Brown,and Posednik...is lefthanded...But at 32, he still runs like a gazelle,can play CF, and could refocus both J Roll and Shane in the art of stealing a base...now.Just fodder in late December...Last, what is the plan with Dom Brown?...Just play him everyday and hope he puts up numbers to buiild value?...What if he lights it up in Spring?..If the club signs a legit ML outfielder, competition again is erased (just like catcher position when Schneider got resigned)...A fifth outfielder can always be acquired in the Spring if nobody steps up and claims the job.— bearsfriend
- ...regarding Dom Brown...I meant playing everyday in LV...he won't get handed a ML job..he is officially now "under the radar". — bearsfriend
- Conor Jackson was once a hot prospect but has slumped is still available. Plays outfield and 1st base, bats right.— zeke128
- Chicks would be buying that jersey. — bearsfriend
- Dom Brown has a future. The aforementioned men have a past.— Bobby G
- I agree that Brown be given a chance and since he comes cheap - sign Madson.
— fish1463 
A little more concerned about third base then I am outfield. I hope our GM knows for sure that Evan Longoria is untouchable. He would look great in a Phillies uniform. Phils don't have anything Tampa would take.- Who should our 5th outfielder be, a right handed power bat??? Well after Boras gets no $200 million offers for Fielder, we should sign Fielder for one year at $22 million....he can play 1B until Howard gets healthy, and then put Fielder in LF. I know you laugh, but the Fat Boy wouldn't be any worse than Ibby and Pat the Bat out there. Whatever errors he made would be overlooked by his 50 home runs at the CBP next year. Do it Rube!!!!!— Roman529
- The Phils should have done something similar when Ryan Howard was chomping at the bit to get promoted to the majors. They should have played Thome at first base and Howard in the outfield until it was Howard's time to take over first base, or moved Thome back to his original position, third base and played Howard at first. Instead, the Phils traded away Thome for very little and even paid his salary while he was in the American League. Could you picture Thome and Howard back to back in the lineup? Not many Phillies fans would take serious the notion of acquiring Fielder, but the guy is looking for $200 million over 10 years. That's $20 million a year, less than the combined salary the Phils paid Ibanez and Lidge last year, and arguably a lot more for less money. Fielder has better numbers than Howard and is 5 years younger. Signing him to a 10 year contract today would only take him to his 37th birthday, 3 years younger than Jorge Posada and 4 years younger than Jim Thome. Instead of talking about guys like Wright, Hairston and Ross, maybe the Phils should acquire Fielder now and decide which defensive position he and Howard are going to play later. Somehow, Manny Ramirez made a career out of leftfield. Fielder and Howard could probably do at least as well defensively. Thinking of Fielder and Howard in the same lineup brings back visions of Howard and Thome playing together. It's like deja vu all over again. — onthebucks
- Comment removed.
- Jhonny Gomes? I'm going to have nightmares. Please talk to some people in Cincinnati about the Jhonny Gomes experience of recent years. Also, why a right-handed hitter? Mayberry and Pence are right-handed, and Victorino hits better from the right side. (Yes, Nix is a lefty.) Thome is balanced by Wigginton. Many more pitchers are right-handed than left. Finally, the Phillies desperately need more base-stealing threats, both on the field and off the bench.— JayW
- Brandon Moss is not in the mix....he was signed by Oakland.— NewMick314
- At the end of the day, Martinez will be the guy. I would much rather see them invest a little more in their minor league system. Pay more signing bonuses to attract better quality, find better quality with a more robust advance scouting system. Valuable prospects aren't merely just born out of the draft.— beegal99
- I agree with Dull and Bears. We need more defense and speed off the bench. And that guy is Michael Martinez, who can also be used to bunt the runners over. Mayberry, Nix and Wigginton can share playing time in LF and 1B with Thome getting a start a week at 1B, until Howard comes back, which at that time there is a decision to be made: who stays, Martinez or Valdez? It will depend on two things, performance, obviously, and the fact that Martinez has options left. I like Martinez better because he's younger, faster and is a better option in the OF.— EL Zorro
- They will just leave Michael Martinez in there as the 5th guy until Howard is back.— Northeaster
- Why would Madson sign for one year. With pitchers there is allways chance of arm injury. Ryan would then kiss millions away. Madson may go for 3 year contract with player option to opt out after 2nd year. Im a big Madson supporter even when he ran into some troubles as closer. Madson has plus-plus talent and I felt it would emerge just as I feel Brown's talent will rise if his confidence is not too far down. The problem with Madson is he probably views himself as a closer due to last years success.— Don w
- Madson may not find any teams interested in 3 years at this point. Most of the teams in need of closers have made their moves. With his market drying up, Madson's best option may be to take a one year deal somewhere then try again next year. Boras may have screwed Madson's chance of getting a decent payday this year.
He still may sign a multi-year deal. The Angels and Reds have been blogged as two teams that might consider signing him to a multi-year deal. If he can be had for a year I would definitely consider it it I were RAJ.
— s - Stan - is that how far you have sunk - to wonder where warbiscuit is? Who cares? I actually have managed to skip whatever he puts out here. Who needs that stuff? I much prefer to be optimistic. HAPPY NEW YEAR to all of you guys!— dwp66
- ok stantheman -- this article is simply silly so i didnt bother commenting - rube has no interest in adding any qualifed bench players --he insists on all garbage exept for those whom he can overpay on a multi-year contract in excess of $36 million— warbiscuit
- I am not concerned about the outfield as much as I am about the pen. They need to talk with Madson and bring him back. There are a few players mentioned in above comments whom are out there. How-ever you drafted Madson brought him up and now you are just going to let him walk is mind boggling to me. But you signed Rollins the fraud let's keep it real, Madson will pay bigger dividends then J-Stinky any day. One great thing I will always respect about Rollins is he work in the community he is a great guy there always giving money and time that is one thing people should never forget what a great person he is, how-ever his baseball skills as well as Ryan the fraud keeping getting worse each year, plus he is breaking down— william20
- Agree that the Wigginton/Mayberry/Nix triumvirate gives you a good deal of flexibility already. Ryan McC. makes the case that Podsednik is a nice depth guy if healthy. I agree. If Podsednik can even come close to his 2009 numbers with the White Sox he will add additional OF depth.— Special Agent Fox Mulder
- They'll hold their money, just sayin'...
— DJ - when in 3 1/2 yrs has the clueless rube ever cared about signing any decent bench or bullpen help? Gload? Bruntlett? Baez? Willis? Schneider? not a single free agent signing by the dumb rube has been worth sh=@ --including such higher-priced garbage like Ibanez and Polanco and even worse extensions to Blanton and Howard... the only quality free agent, Cliff Lee, was at the begging of Lee's wife, and only after continually wasting numerous prospects on starting pitchers ... his failure rate in free agent and contract extensions is about 95%— warbiscuit
- Now that's more like the old 'biscuit we have all come to know and love...Happy New Year one and all... — stan the man too
- Without Ibanez we don't go to the World Series. We have to admit one thing about Rube is he is very active in pursuit to improve the club...don't like the move of bringing back fast eddie but we'll see. As long as Pat has input we will do okay — tsump
- Comment removed.
- Damon or Marlon Byrd. Byrd can be had cheap too - both (well) over 34. He's off a poor season as a FA, still has wheels and plays defense.
Problem with Byrd is Boras. And that is likely why the Phils won't look there.— 24sDad - Happy New Yr to all.— NewMick314
- Lance Nix is the 5th outfielder...no matter who the 4th is.— justacarpenter
- interesting that the Padres just gave a couple of mediocre prospects for Carlos Quentin. Quentin would have been nice in left-field, with mayberry as 4th o/f again and Nix in Ross Gload's role instead of thome..
anyway, had a great time at alumni game tonight..a sporting event where everyone is happy is extremely rare..helped erase the bad memory of my last visit to CBP for game 5 of the nlds..happy new year everyone— jim715 - The fact that we are talking about a bench player says a lot about this team! Go phillies! I can't begin to tell you how much fun it has been to be fan these last five years! Great talent and great people make up this team. No distractions off the field. Just solid guys across the board.— Fritz and Alice
- I believe they already have their outfielder. It is Scott Podsednik.— MooseBreathMints
- Gomes is a decent try of a reclamation project (what were you all saying about Jayson Werth in 2007 when Geoff Jenkins was the "every day" right fielder?). Nix/Wigginton are great role players. Orr is not in the picture and Martinez can't hit at all. Don't be surprised if RAJ makes another "move" of signficance. As for Madsen, he is NOT coming back for many reasons, one being Scott Boris. Unfortunately, Boris over-estimated the market for Madsen and this time didn't do his client any favor. Had he accepted arbitration, Ryan would have received about $11 million and had a chance next season for a multi-year contract. Now, w/o Boston, Philly, NYY, Atlanta, Miami, etc... looking for a 4-year committment for a closer, looks like he is out of luck. Let RAJ do his job. Phight On for 2012.— drhoffman
- I was unable to reply to "onthebucks" comments about Ryan Howard int he outfield when he first can up. The Phils tried it and he was worse than Dom Brown out there. That's why Thome was traded.— andivalspoppop
- My feeling is Mike Martinez makes the club out of spring training, until Howard comes back. Martinez is good (not great) defensively, can bunt and pinch run. He's also great to have at AAA or in Philly if (when) our infielders go down. The wild card is Posednik. He quickly signed a minor league deal with us this off-season. Which means he likes the organization and his chances, here, of making the big club if his feet are all right. Ironically, Posednik will likely hold a Greg Gross-type role: slap-swining, pinch hitting, though Posednik has (and had) way more speed than Gross ever did.— eman
- Cuddyer would have best.
Hairston looks best from above— VicM - 5th outfeilder? Brookover, if you have nothing better to write about, just stay home.— jman
- Think outside the box!! Package Polly, Blanton, Brown, and trade to Cubs for Garza and Baker. Garza becomes our @4 starter and Baker plays all infield and outfield positions in a pinch. He is a right hand hitter with a little pop.— Philvegas
1
About this blog
The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
Inquirer Staff Writer
Bob Brookover
Inquirer Baseball Columnist
Search this blog:
Classifieds:
Site Services:
Partners:
Powered By:
