A good deal for Phillies WITH UPDATES ON CHAPMAN, HAPP
UPDATE, 8:45pm
A good deal for Phillies WITH UPDATES ON CHAPMAN, HAPP
Andy Martino
UPDATE, 8:45pm
Here's where we are as of Tuesday evening: A press conference officially introducing Roy Halladay as the newest Phillie will likely occur tomorrow at Citizens Bank Park, according to a source with direct knowledge of the team's plans.
The event could still, however, be delayed another day if medical reviews are not completed for all players involved in the deal. For coverage of the day's unfolding events, see below.
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The Halladay/Lee deal is "very unlikely" to be made official today, according to a person familiar with the talks. An official announcement could very well come tomorrow. The process could still accelerate and lead to an announcement later today.
There has been some unrest in my inbox this morning about reports of this trade. The widely reported deal is a good one for the Phillies, but your concerns are understandable. Reports varied yesterday evening, but the framework has now come into focus as pretty much this:
Phillies get: Roy Halladay from Toronto, 20-year-old righthander Phillippe Aumont form Seattle, 21-year-old righty J.C. Ramirez from Seattle, and 21-year-old outfielder Tyson Gillies from Seattle.
Toronto gets: Righty Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor, catcher Travis d’Arnaud.
Seattle gets: Cliff Lee
This could still change up until the moment it is announced.
Let’s run through some of the reservations and questions:
Why did it have to be Cliff Lee?
The Phillies at first tried to move Joe Blanton’s approximately $7 million salary, but that apparently did not go anywhere. It would have been very difficult to find a team to take on that money and trade decent prospects for Blanton.
That left the Phils with the option of trading Lee. The lefty will make $9 million in 2010, and the team expected he would become a free agent after the season. Lee’s agent told us yesterday that wasn’t necessarily true. But even if he did sign an extension, it would have been for significantly more money than the Phils are reportedly giving Halladay.
According to ESPN, Halladay will make $15.75 million next season, and $60 million for the next three years. That’s an unbelieveable bargain, and the best part about it is the length; you’re not locking this guy up until he’s over-the-hill (he’s 32 now). Lee’s buddy CC Sabathia got seven years, $161 million last winter, by comparison. More money, more years. And Lee might look for something like that in 11 months.
The idea that Lee and Halladay could be part of the same rotation next year was never realistic. The Phils maintained they did not have the room in their payroll. That room might have been created by trading Blanton, but they couldn’t.
And while Lee was spectacular in the World Series, Roy Halladay is a better pitcher. Look it up.
But we thought Drabek was untouchable…
Baseball America projects Drabek as a potential no. 2 or no. 3 starter. He has already undergone Tommy John surgery, and the team shut him down this summer for precautionary reasons. Keep in mind that most highly-touted pitchers do not become stars. It is difficult to imagine that he will be comparable in any way to Halladay over the next four years.
Also, this is much easier for the Phils to absorb, because they are receiving a highly-touted pitcher. Aumont is a former no. 1 draft pick, and he struck out Kevin Youkilis and Curtis Granderson while pitching for Team Canada in last March’s World Baseball Classic.
Ramirez is raw. He was 8-10 with a 5.12 ERA last season, but his perceived potential led Baseball America to rank him as the no.5 prospect in the Mariners’ system.
Will either Aumont or Ramirez become major league stars? Not likely. It is never likely that pitching prospects will become solid major leaguers. But they do help ease the hit to the farm system caused by this trade.
Someone told us that that Michael Taylor was going to be an All-Star…
Michael Taylor seems like a very smart, very grounded person, and we wish him the best. And he may well enjoy a productive career. But baseball people like Domonic Brown much more. The Phils kept Brown out of this deal, a negotiating victory.
Gillies, by the way, played in the Futures Game last year, a showcase for top minor league talent.
It’s not just that they gave up Lee, Drabek, Taylor, d’Arnaud. They gave up Marson, Carrasco, et. al….
Don’t let Ruben Amaro fool you when he says he gave up a lot for Lee last summer. I will be surprised if any one of Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Jason Knapp ever makes an All-Star team. The Indians needed to shed payroll last summer, and took a package of lesser prospects for their ace.
Look, two things that fans love are postseason performers and top prospects. That’s what people get excited about, and connect to emotionally. Very reasonable. But I believe that this move makes it more likely that the Phils will enjoy several more World Series appearances. It makes them a bit better next year, and much, much better in 2011, 2012 and 2013.
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Here's an add-on after getting some more emails: You're right, this trade as currently constructed is not technically a three-team trade. The Phils are reportedly acquiring Halladay from Toronto for prospects, while also trading Lee to Seattle for prospects. But the issue of payroll is still central to this, and prospects are also important. After giving up some of their top youngsters to get Halladay, the Phils wanted to replenish their system. So they got highly-regarded guys from Seattle.
Also, though multiple reports have Halladay and the Phils agreeing on the extension, an official announcement still does not appear likely until tomorrow. Lots of moving parts here, and medical records to be exchanged.
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The Phils have made the signing of Ross Gload official. Gload passed his physical today. The 33-year-old lefthanded bench player essentially replaces Matt Stairs. He led the major leagues with 21 pinch-hits last year, and tied for the major league lead with 15 pinch hit RBIs.
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Also, the Phillies ended up sending two scouts to see Cuban prospect Aroldis Chapman throw in Houston today, according to a team source. But they are not believed to have serious interest in pursuing the pitcher.
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Another update for you: Contrary to a report, J.A. Happ did not take a physical yesterday, and has not done so recently or in connection with any trade, team source says.
terrible! if Halladay wasn't worth giving up Drabek last year, why is he now that we have more leverage? Lee is younger, PROVEN postseason success, and the more recent Cy Young, so why should we have to give up so much more just to exchange that ace for another? i hope this all bogus, becuase if true we would have given up a total of 7 top prospects for one ace and a couple prospects inferior to our best. much much MUCH rather keep Lee, Drabel, Taylor, d'Arnaud that trade thel all for Halladay. i mean he's good, but come on! arm injury away from this organization being in ruins.— Brainiac- I agree with the consensus forming here that we are getting jobbed on the Lee trade. If it's two separate trades why are they in such a rush to trade Lee without shopping for the best deal?? At least get a ML starter like Morrow from Seattle. It doesn't add up!!!— sla6yer
At least Reuben is trying. That is nice to see. This deal - whether it turns out good or bad down the road - shows he has imagination and guts. Two needed qualities for a GM.— Poppys- WELCOME TO PHILADELPHIA ROY HALLADAY!!!!!!! THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL the PAst 10 YEARS HANDS DOWN!!!!! NOT HIS FAULT HE PLAYED FOR A SUCKY TEAM. HE has better numbers than LEE.— phillieseagles4life
- Foxsports is reporting that the Jays will be giving the Phils $6 million in cash towards Halladay's salary this year. That makes his salary around $9 million this year which is Lee's salary. If Blanton is expected to make around $7 million, then Blanton should be traded, not Lee. The only reason to trade Lee would have been if you needed the prospects from a Lee trade to complete the Halladay deal. But all reports are that the Phils will trade Drabek, Taylor and D'Arnaud to the Jays for Halladay. So the only reason for trading Lee is to clear salary and/or re-stock the farm system (with young guys from Seattle, Class A level guys). They could trade Blanton, keep Lee and it's only a $2 million difference in salary which they certainly can handle for this year. Go for another World Series title this year and then get the 2 draft picks when Lee leaves in free-agency after the end of the year. I'd rather keep Lee for the year and get the 2 draft picks instead of trade him now and get 3 young prospects.— JimG
- TORonto Was not going to give him up For Free. So stop complaining about Drabek.— phillieseagles4life
- Is giving up Lee and Drabek for Haladay a good deal? No.— NickFotiu4HOF
- I have zero confidence Hammels will return to form especially after him complaining about how rough his year was ...don't see the fire in his belly ... Lee will be missed— anthemra
- All you people that are being negative fail to realize that Halladay will be signed for at least 4 years. Halladay is awesome and in my mind a better pitcher than Lee!!! We have no clue what Drabek will do! I can't remember the last pitcher the Phillies were really high on in the minors who lived up to the expectations.— jeremy817
- Let's not forget, by keeping Lee, that get a great pitcher for a very reasonable price. And if he leaves as a free agent, you get two first round draft picks next year. Why in the world do you get rid of Lee to save a stinking 9 million dollars??? The value they are giving up in prospects, and the two first round picks, are worth much more than 9 million dollars. Andy, which is worth more? Having Lee for 2010, keeping Drabek and Taylor, getting two first round draft picks in 2011....vs. saving 9 million dollars this year?— arrowamy
- Someone on the other side has to want Blanton. By all accounts, they tried shopping him. Halladay is an improvement. Overall, he's better consistently than Lee and he gives them the stud RHP they've been lacking, locked up for a few years so they can continue to make a run at the WS. It was also definitely about price as the Phils don't have an unlimited payroll as much as we'd like to fantasize. What's left is to shore up the pen. When this deal is out of the way I'd expect Amaro to make some bullpen moves. Knowing their cash situation may be what he was waiting for.— s
- Bad trade. Lee=Halladay is fine, but Drabek? Maybe if the M's gave up Morrow, but Aumont is a dud. He's from Quebec and would be better PR move to Toronto. And you're wrong about Taylor, Andy. He's going to be a very, very good player in the Mike Cameron mold, and we'll have to wait and see, but having seen both Taylor and Brown play, Taylor will have the longer/better MLB career.— Corsair42
Comment removed.- The Halladay part makes sense to me, but what's reported right now is not a three-team deal. It's two completely separate deals. Deal 1 is Halladay for Drabek, Taylor and Travis d’Arnaud. Deal 2 is Lee for the three Seattle prospects. If money is the main reason to move Lee, wouldn't it had made more sense to not offer Blanton arbitration, let him become a free agent and save the $6 or $7 million he's going to get for 2010. Then you can keep Lee's $9 million for 2010. They'd be pretty left-handed heavy in the rotation, but whatever... Why not just do the Halladay deal and hold on to Lee for right now? I can't believe other teams (the L.A. Angels?) wouldn't have ponied up more value for a chance at Lee.— NJguy
- It's official. If a pot of gold landed in most of your laps, you'd whine and complain that it was not a pot of platinum. This is a good deal in terms of securing predictability for upcoming years as well as getting a stud pitcher. There is no doubt Holliday is a better pitcher than Lee based on raw numbers. But he also has a much longer track record and faced tougher (AL East) competition. It is also better business to deal exclusively with Halladay than in an open market for him or Lee. Further, I agree that Drabek has been overinflated since Day 1. He'll make the majors in the next year or two and he should be good, but there's no guarantee he will be a star. You ALWAYS trade prospects for a 3+ year deal for an established star. Come on folks... Todd Van Poppel, Brian Taylor, Mark Prior, etc. etc. etc. I remember when Marlon Anderson was supposed to be the future of the Phillies. This is a great deal.— e4stringer
