Division lead does not change Phils trade outlook
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Division lead does not change Phils trade outlook
Andy Martino
My big question after last weekend was: Now that the Phils have built a sizable division lead (and, let’s face it, they’d have to totally collapse for one of those other stinky teams to win it) do they still feel the need to sacrifice talented players and make a trade?
The answer: Yes, they do. Very much.
Here’s Charlie Manuel: “Of all the talent we’ve got, we need to put some more pieces around it, and once we do that, that will make us better.”
And assistant GM Scott Proefrock: “All you have to do is look back two weeks ago. We’ve got a long way to go. This isn’t over by any stretch of the imagination, and we still need to be prepared for a tough battle the rest of the way.
Proefrock implied that the team was also thinking about a potential playoff rotation, not just getting there. That’s where adding Roy Halladay comes in, though of course Proefrock did not mention the pitcher by name.
The Phillies clearly believe that a 6 ½ game lead in the NL East should not change their basic goals of improving the rotation, bench and bullpen. Some of you are emailing me, saying, “what about a Hamels/Blanton/Happ playoff rotation, and you get to keep Drabek and Taylor?” Well, fair question, but the front office and manager clearly don’t see it that way.
Comments (33)
I would keep the prospects....unless you dont think Hamels becomes the Hamels of 08'— cdedrick05- This lead is great, but the Mets collapsed 2 years running. Keep working on the spots that need help and don't think anything is in the bag.— oldecityslicker
- Hamels is why you do the Halladay deal.— JBP
- “We need to put some more pieces around” … scary … just more knick-knacks for Manuel to keep on the mantle over the fireplace … as in bench. Yikes! It’s a tale of two Phillies … On one hand, you have the guys on Charlie’s “A list” who are being managed like a short-sighted Nascar pit-crew where they will either succumb to mechanical, as in health issues or they simply run out of gas just before the finish line. And then there are those bewildered boys on the bench, even some in the bullpen. Unlike their teammates, they have been relegated to “Tin Man” status. However, if this remains the status quo, even an oil can or “Doc” for that matter may not be able to help the 2009 Phil’s earn that victory lap again.— get a clue
- Didn't the Phils go 4-13 just a few weeks ago? No lead is safe especially when you consider the past few seasons. If a move can be made that makes sense, makes you much better, and does not require "selling the farm", then I think the Phils should definitely add a starter. Also, Hamels has had a consistently poor season and you cannot expect he will magically be as good as last season's playoffs. I'm not saying to exclude him from the playoff rotation, I'm just saying the division lead is not 100% safe. Also, the Hamels, Blanton, Happ playoff rotation seems a bit shakey, even with Happ pitching like Hamels of a year ago.— MrPhillie
- Did you hear Montgomery on Daily News Live? My hunch is based on his interview....they are not going for Halladay....unless it is a great fake out...like Charlie did not want Pedro— PaulDeon
- Also, why can't the Phillies seem to improve the bench? It would be nice if the Phillies had a few capable replacements to give some guys a rest and to help the team as pinch hitters and in making double moves. Right now the Phillies have a very, very poor righthanded hitting bench...I don't care how many positions Bruntlett can play, their has to be someone out there more capable than him. Can't Cairo play the same positions as Bruntlett and isn't he hitting over .300 at LV? If he's not hurt I would bring him up to replace Bruntlett right now while still looking at other possible moves. Teams will simply laugh at the Phils every time they send Bruntlett up as a pinch hitter.— MrPhillie
- Andy, I don't believe you said what you said in the parenthetical in the first paragraph!!! Don't you KNOW what the baseball gods will do to us, with the Phils' beat writer invoking the ghost of 1964? I had to live through that as a kid; don't make me have to relive history as an adult!— marty
- Well, let's go by this out of fannation to gauge what Toronto wants--"Toronto's request of the Mets for star pitcher Roy Halladay was for top outfield prospect Fernando Martinez, young pitchers Bobby Parnell and Jon Niese and shortstop prospect Ruben Tejada, sources tell SI.com." So if we go by that, they'd want either Dominic Brown or Michael Taylor, Jason Donald, and probably Kyle Drabek and another young pitcher..not necessarily Happ. Also, there's a blurb in mlb.com/news--Brett Myers is way ahead of schedule and his doctor says he doesn't see why he won't be pitching in late August--so that's a bullpen piece.— bobbyuk
- I'll bet Phils get another starter, not Doc. Front office won't want to pay the price. And I agree with MrPhillie:bring back Cairo.— spinmeister
- We are all slightly dumber for having read the comment posted by "get a clue".
- Too much is at stake here... Yeah, Drabek is emotional, but he's also a kid. A large percentage of his "temper tantrums" will calm with time. And trading Happ is a horrible idea! He pitched a gem yesterday and is a pillar of the starting pitching staff right now. Happ and Drabek are the team's future. Signing Halladay with his big pay check is no guarantee of a repeat.— PhillyfaninFL
- I agree with Mr Phillie that what the Phillies need the most is righthanded pinch hitting. Does the front office really think that Mayberry and Bruntlett can hit major league pitching? They weakened the bench when they released Coste who could hit better than both Mayberry and Bruntlett. To improve the bench they should try Cairo once again.— waltZ
- Hey how about bringing up Mike Cervenak from Lehigh Valley. He is batting .400 against lefthanded pitchers this year. He can't do any worse than Bruntlett and Mayberry.— waltZ
Comment removed.- I would not ruin the farm system to trade for Halladay. No doubt he's worth it. But Bedard could be had for a guy like Dominic Brown. And I see Bedard as a top-of-the-rotation pitcher. The Phils aren't going to fold either. They know how to win and with Bedard as well as keeping Happ and the keys to the farm like Drabek, Carrasaco and Taylor, they will be real tough in the playoffs.— realex
- For the people who say Halladay isn't a guarantee to make the playoffs should also realize that neither is keeping Happ and Drabek.— phigglesfan75
- I am old enough to remember when the Phils dealt future hall of famer Fergie Jenkins.DO NOT DEAL DRABEK!— BG in So.Cal
- Comment removed.
- These trade rumors make up the most over-reported topic since Bonnie and Clyde.— Delaware Jim
- A simple question: If the Phils have Hamels of '08 instead of the erratic and inconsistent Hollywood Hamels of '09, are we then even talking about a trade for Halladay??— CarpGuy
- If the Phillies win every single game for the rest of the year and whind up playing the Giants in a 1st round playoff series they would not be favored with the pitching staff they have right now. Lincecum is better then Hamels right now, Matt Cain is better then whoever you want to call the Phils 2nd and Randy Johnson is better then our 3rd. They need to do the deal for Halladay— dennis14
- Marty, you are so right. I also remember 1964 - 6 1/2 game lead with 12 games left. Nothing is guaranteed 'til it's over. Didn't understand "getaclue." Name ought to be "outer space." I thought Montgomery's comments yesterday about weighing the future against the present were very well said. Yet he did not preclude the Phils from making a deal to land Halladay.— steveku2
- coste sux - that was the right move hands down. phils need a righty bench guy no doubt - but coste is certainly not that guy. we need someone to hit the ball and perhaps catch it . . .he can do neither.— bkid2424
- The rumour about what Toronto asked the Mutts for makes no sense. Everyone knows they aren't interested in Doc because of money. They can't afford him and have more pesing needs (half their starting 8 is on the DL). If it is an attempt to up the price we pay it backfired, as at least on every blog, we're willing to pay more then that offer for Doc already. As for bench help, I agree. The problem is that Brunlett, fast becoming the "So-What" of 2009, plays so many posistions on the field. While we have mayberry as 4th OF, and Dobbs can cover 3B and 1B, we need a guy to cover the middle inf if we dump him. Cervenak is a 3B and won't help us that way. The obvious answer is Donalds, but he's packing his clothes for a move to Toronto. This is the time to send a A player in return for a bench guy who can field a bit and hit.— fan_in_jerusalem
- Stop worrying about Fergie and what Drabek may turn into. As far as I'm concerned, he can win 30 games for 15 straight year and get his own wing in Cooperstown. If halliday brings us 2 WS rings it's worth it. The Jenkins trade gave us nothing in return. Here we are getting this generation's Carlton. Remember, Wise was a good pitcher as well, and many people were against the trade when it happened.— fan_in_jerusalem
Did you guys HAVE to bring up 1964? I still have nightmares about that year.— tpizza- Let the Mets trade their farm for Halladay but I don't see us doing it. Our real needs, based on lack of performance, are a Closer and one or two bench players who can hit for average. They don't have to have major league experience just be able to hit and play one position without creating more runs for the opposition. The Lidge problem may have already been solved with Myers come back. If you consider his desire to be the star closer he could be a key to the playoffs & W.S. Taylor and Donald would be perfect fit for the bench and making the move before Aug 31 makes them eligable for the W.S.— Wally 24
- Hamels/Blanton/Happ doesn't scare anyone just like Hamels/Kendrick/Lohse didn't scare anyone two years ago. The idea is to win the World Series again and Hamels/Halladay atop the rotation makes that possible even against the Dodgers and Red Sox. Go get Doc!— AChamp1
- The post by get a clue may be the worst comment I have ever read on any message board.— ktdb05
- i think the phillies r going to get another starter from the reds and maybe cleveland it,s all over fanhouse .com let,s not give up the future we dont need 1 or 2 i think a 3or 4 starter will get it done for us so we don,t have to give 4 or 5 players away that we can use in two years or so hope we do right talk to u great phillie fans and also flyers fans later go phillie''''— flyer4ever
- Andy, in the NY Times today, editorial section, buried in the '59 supreme court decision, is a rebuke of the judges-umpires analogy.— mrkagey
- WaltZ: problem with Cervanek (who is a very good hitter) is that he has no defensive range. Career (7 or more yrs) as AAA star, but is one dimensional. Cairo who has considerably less power, but is solid defensively is a better replacement for The Brunt. It would be interesting if Andy wouls query J. Alfed Proefrock on this matter.— mick314
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