Jays ask for Drabek, Happ and Brown for Halladay
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Jays ask for Drabek, Happ and Brown for Halladay
Andy Martino
Well, here it is, the Blue Jays asking price for Roy Halladay: Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi has spoken to the Phillies within the past 24 hours and negotiations are underway in earnest, baseball sources tell the Inquirer. They want Kyle Drabek, J.A. Happ and Dominic Brown.
That's what they've asked for. It remains to be seen how the Phils will respond to that. Keep in mind that in a negotiating process, offers evolve; this would not necessarily be the deal, if one is done. The Phils could counter with something entirely different.
When Charlie Manuel said yesterday “I prefer the horse,” the horse had a name: Halladay. As the Phillies and Blue Jays negotiate, figuring out who to include or not in a potential trade, there is a buzz around the clubhouse. Phillies players have pulled me aside, asking, “Hey, off the record, are we going to get Doc? What will we have to give up?
Manuel was asked today if he’d revised the thoughts he expressed about two weeks ago re: giving up Drabek. Here’s what he said a few hours ago: "I like Drabek and the basic reason I say that is, when I look at him, the style of pitcher that he is, I look at his upside. I look at his tools. I look at the kind of pitcher he is - I call him a drop and drive pitcher - and I think he's on the order of Nolan Ryan or Tom Seaver or Colon, guys like that with a real strong core, strong legs, get a big push off the rubber to produce power. It's a style that usually makes for a long career. That's what I see."
Two weeks ago, he said clearly: “For me, it would be tough to trade Drabek.” Today, compliments about the kid, no concrete plea to keep him around.
So which is it, Charlie--do you want the horse or the pony? You probably can’t have both. And if you can, you sure can’t have J.A. Happ anymore.
***
A conversation I had with Cole Hamels a few hours ago made me think about another way that Halladay could help this team. Hamels has struggled all season with the concept of being an ace, sometimes wanting to play that role so badly that it affected his performance.
Today he talked about how having Brett Myers pitching well helped him down the stretch last year: “The past couple years, Brett was here, and we had that awesome camaraderie, competition to make each other better,” he said. “He's gone. Happ and Blanton have stepped up, and that's good. That makes it a little easier on me.”
In other words, now that Blanton and Happ are pitching well, Hamels has been able to let go of his need to be a stopper, which has enabled him to just pitch. The impact of this was clear last night when Hamels allowed three runs in the fourth inning. When the Phils were on a losing streak in Toronto and Atlanta recently, Hamels wanted so badly to be an ace that, when things went badly, he got all upset and pitched even worse. Last night, he was able to regroup, stay calm and post another three scoreless innings, partially because he knew that the team did not absolutely NEED to win the game he started.
Can you imagine what it would do for him to have Halladay here? The new guy would not only grab all the attention, and take it off Hamels. And, the man they call Doc is a fully realized pitcher, and could teach young Colbert new things about throwing a white sphere past large men carrying wooden bats.
***
I leave you with two pieces of advice: 1) Enjoy Happ tonight, on the chance it’s his final start here. You can’t let him hold up a Halladay deal, and I don’t believe the Phillies would, but he is a fun pitcher to watch. He’s confident without being arrogant, aggressive and intelligent. He’s helped to set a tone for the rotation lately that has helped them get on a roll. The past few weeks have been tough on him, enduring all the speculation and questions, and it will all be over one way or another very soon. I'm not saying he's a goner, but I knew the Jays are interested in him.
2) Turn off the computer, turn off the radio, de-tweetify your handheld device. There is a higher demand for information than there is actual information during deadline time, and the whole thing gets very silly. GMs offer strategic half-truths to the media, who rush them online just to feed the beast. Let’s just enjoy the games. Check in occasionally and I’ll let you know when news happens.
Comments (321)
how exactly does trading happ for halliday equal a "win this year" move? that would simply replace our rotation's best pitcher this year with....a guy we hope will be the rotation's best pitcher for the rest of the year. i'm not saying happ is as good as halliday (that's crazy), but happ is pitching as well as anyone in the bigs right now. this wouldn't help the phils fill the TWO spots in their rotation that are unreliable (moyer's and the 5th spot). it almost feels like a lateral move, not the huge upgrade people keep saying it would be. i don't get it....if they can keep happ, and have a four man rotation in october of halliday, hamels, happ, and blanton, then that's a winner (even if you have to give up drabek, who isn't helping this year or, probably, next); but including happ in the deal still leaves the rotation with 3 quality pitchers. last time i checked, that's one too few for october.— valentine- Losing Happ definately hurts. But I feel the Phils have to pull the trigger on this one. Halladay puts us on track to win it all for the next two years. I am 59 and have rooted for the Phils my entire life. This team is very good, Hallady makes them great. Let's do it!— JimSeitz
- interested to see what their counteroffer will be, but two words: DO IT!!! Happ's value will never be higher— stigs
- brown,.....ok. happ OR drabek, but not both. think of plan B, rubie.— scorpio27
- carrasco was our 'untouchable' player last year, now he's the 1st guy everybody wants to throw into a deal. that's what happens with prospects. and as far as Happ, yes he's good. But NONE of his wins this year have come against a team with a winning record. Done deal!— stigs
- If that trade is made, it will set the franchise back for years. Halladay does not guarantee a championship this year or next. It does tell me to things about this GM. He is in panic mode and stinks at poker. It also tells me the franchise is headed for trouble down the road. We have been robbed and can't do a thing about it. Fergie Jenkins and Ryan Sandburg were not the only diasterous mistakes in Phillie History. (Don't forget the Dick/Richie Allen fiasco.)— wmontanez27
- It's a coin toss! JA has performed very well this season, can he keep that up for years to come? I wouldn't mind if it were only minor leaguers. No doubt about it, Hallady would jump right in and give the Phills an amazing 1/2 punch but we'd still have average (at best) 3 and 4 guys. It would be nice to keep Happ as the #3. How long do you think Halladay would be in a Phills uniform... 5,6,7 or more years? If that were the case I'd say pull the trigger.— johnnyem
- I can happily live with if, and ONLY if, we extend his contract for an additional three years. Otherwise, that's too much talent to give up for a rental.— The Pack Leader
- AS A PHILLIE FAN FOR THIRTY YEARS,I WILL WALK AWAY FROM MY BELOVED PHILS IF THEY DO NOT MAKE THIS DEAL,THE JAYS ARE ASKING A FAIR PRICE FOR THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL,MAJOR LEAGUE READY PLAYER,TOP PITCHING AMD HITTING PROSPECT,VERY VERY CHEAP FOR DOC,DO IT RUBEN PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ— soliteryman
- We should be able to get Lincecum for that price.— philly200
- Why give up your number one pitching prospect and a guy who is pitching great, and your number one rated position player for a 1.25 year rental? The chances of the Phillies repeating this year are slim, even with Halliday. Last time I checked it's been 33 years since an NL team repeated. As several other posters said, taking Happ out of the rotation leaves them week at number 4 and 5. You just can't give up Drabek and Happ at this point. But that was Toronto's offer which is going for the stars. Should be interesting to hear about the Phillies counteroffer.— Bill R4
- Happ is our best starter right now, see if they would take Knapp and Corrasco instead. Maybe even see if they'd take Taylor instead, but we are subtracting a major piece of our current team and we'd still only have three reliable starters.— ConverseB24
- Two out of three; not all three.
- Winning the WS was great. The city was proud. The parade was great. But it's all over. It passes. April rolls around and it all starts again and people start to think about the next world series not the last one. It was a truly exciting experience, but one that is no more. However, there is something else that, at least to me, is equally exciting in following a baseball team and that is the system. Guys slowly developing. Never really sure what they are going to be. Finally, some of them taking their place in CBP, making a career and generating more excitement. Many of us followed the minor league careers of Howard, Utley, Myers, Hamel, Rollins and others. Some made it and some didn't. Nobody knows who is going to make it big and who is not. Just imagine if Wade had traded Howard. Where would we be now. Or Utley, the best second baseman in baseball and the envy of every other team. Or Hamels, who will shine still. Who knows whether Drabek will be one of the great pitchers. Maybe a Tom Seaver in Charlie's words. Or Brown? A five tool player if I've ever seen one. After all, Happ has won only 4 games less than Halladay. What if he wins another 7 down the stretch. Halladay certainly is not going to win any more than that. Let's say Halladay wins 10 down the stretch, meaning we have added only 3 wins, while giving up three possible starters of the future. Please RA don't do it. It's entirely too much. We already have a very good team, mostly home grown and are in a position to continue battling for the top spot. Halladay just will not bring that much to the table to be worth gutting the minor league system. It's always a temptation to fall into a short-term temptation, but just imagine if you are giving up a Tom Seaver of the future, plus a 15 game winner and a 5 tool outfielder, for just a few games more for less than a season and a half. This is a move that, if done, will place RA squarely in Ed Wade's corner in the memory of Phillie fans in the future.— MORGANA
- I'd like to see Halliday here, but if the Phils give up Happ, they are still going to have one quality pitcher in Halliday. Hamels said he's better with Happ and Blanton pitching well. He looked good against the alst place Padres, but in his previous start he looked terrible and Happ and Blanton were pitching well then. Moyer's a great guy, but you don't know which one will show up from game to game. And who knows what Martinez or the AAA pitcher of the week will provide. And what would be next season's rotation? Will Moyer still be here? Who do you bring up from the farm? Except for '79, the Phillies were in the playoffs from '76 through '81 mostly due to a core of home-grown players. From '83 through 2003, the farm system basically produced one star player, Scott Rolen and you can throw in Rollins. If they give away the farm for a chance to win again this year and next, will we see another 20-year drought?— mike l
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