Condrey activated, Walker designated
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Condrey activated, Walker designated
Andy Martino
I’m working on another project this weekend, so am not in Miami and won’t be blogging as much during this series. But wanted to pass along that the Phils activated Clay Condrey from the DL this morning and designated Tyler Walker for assignment. Walker did a pretty nice job filling in, but he was obviously going to be the one to go when Condrey returned.
When you think about it, last year’s Condrey-Durbin-Eyre-Romero-Madson-Lidge team has seldom been together this season, between drug suspensions and injuries. Now that they’re finally lined up for the second half, we’ll see how that helps the team.
***
As I’m sure you know, Michael Taylor is now livin here in Allentown, where they're closing all the blah blah. The way I see it, the Phillies have to trade this guy, regardless of his talent and potential. Why? Three little reasons named Werth, Victorino and Ibanez. Taylor turns 24 soon, so by the time Ibanez’s contract is up (heck, even by the time Werth’s contract is up after next season), the kid will be too old.
Ibanez will likely remain injury-prone because of his advanced age—that gets back to the questionable wisdom of signing him to a three-year deal—and Taylor would likely get opportunities to fill in over the next few years. But he deserves an organization that truly needs him, and if the Phils want Roy Halladay, they are best to sacrifice at a position that is full.
UPDATE: Just glanced at the comments, and one thing I don't understand is some people's continued reluctance to embrace Werth. It's a serious question I'd like to throw out there: What is it about this guy that makes many of you wary of him?
PhillyTheKid made what I thought was a good point, perhaps with more precision than I did. It's not so much that Taylor will be too old when Werth's current contract expires, it's that Werth could very well last more than another year. He'll be 31 at the end of the 2010 season. So if you're set there, Taylor is expendable. I mean, Werth could very well hit 40 homers, lead the team in OBP and play stellar defense this year. Isn't Werth already giving you Taylor's best-case scenario?
And as for those who'd rather trade Mayberry--Duh, as the kids say. Good luck with that.
And furthermore, Ibanez is 37. It is likely that his age will catch up with him and result in more injuries as he turns 38 and 39. That's just the way baseball works. But you can't keep Taylor around to fill in during Ibanez's DL stints. That's a job for a Mark DeRosa-type, not an uber-prospect.
Here's PK:
PS: why do any of you think Werth's last year with the Phils is next season? We're going to get rid of him in his prime? Not only do I hope NOT, but I don't think so! He may not warm your hearts like Vic, Utley and Howard, but this guy is the ONLY 5-tool player on the team! PK PS: I realize some of you will dispute the "5-tool" tag because of his batting avg...Is there really that much difference between 27 hits and 30 hits/100 AB's?
Comments (145)
Andy, I agree with your Werth analysis but I guess it comes down to economics. The question is how much he will ask for after next year. This team can't afford too many more $10mm a year players. Your argument to trade Taylor sounds familiar - it's the same argument that was made for trading Howard when he was in the minors? Trade a guy for the right deal, not for the sake of trading him.— fly eagles fly- The logic you are using with trading Taylor, is the same the Phils could have used with Ryan Howard. I think Taylor could be the LF of the future. Ibanez could be similar to Jim Thome. Savior and stud the first year. Albatross by the third year. Dont be so quick to give up Taylor, who really is a five tool player.— arrowamy
- One thing that hasn’t been discussed here is that Halladay can demand a trade in the off-season if traded to another team, because players signed after 2006 can become FA in they are traded in the middle of their deals. There is the possibility that if the Phillies acquire Halladay he can walk in the off-season, according to reports. The Jays have a problem if the think they can get a truckload of prospects for Halladay. Why would a team mortgage the farm and also include an already good ML starter or position player or two when the guy can walk before his contract runs out? Also, because the contenders are beginning to separate from the pretenders, there would be less competition for players available, which would meant teams are not going to get a lot for their players. So at the end, the Phillies could be in a better bargaining position than first thought.— EL Zorro
- I would say this: keep Happ. The man is legit. Trade any combination of minor league players for Halladay. Donald, Taylor, and any pitcher, including Drabek.— GPG13
- and TonyB, in the same sentence you say: "Taylor's unproven" and also: "Taylor has high trade value now". WHAAAT? ... If a team is giving up their #1 starter, don't you think they would want a proven player like Werth (who's currently having a great season) instead of Taylor (who, as you say, is unproven, but the Phillies brass seems to have faith in him - faith that may not be shared by other teams around the league)?— jman
- Tonyb, I will take credit for being the first to mention Victorino and Werth as possible chips (only one of them) in a Halladay trade. ... Who said anything about not liking Werth? I think he's a fine player, but when you can get someone like Halladay, you need to give up something good. Prospects alone won't do it. Most people here don't want to trade anyone off the current roster because we've all become attached to them after last year. But think about it - with the surplus offense this team now has, can we really keep 3 all-star outfielders when we need a #1 or #2 starter so badly? All 3 outfielders are having great seasons, so their value is at it's highest. (and Ibanez is too old for someone to take him in a trade like this.)— jman
- Priceless! So many clowns that think we can get one of the best pitchers in baseball (Halladay) for a bag of unproven prospects. Why would the Blue Jays do that? If the Phillies are serious, they need to sacrifice a 2nd-tier starter in addition to the prospects. Tier 1: Howard, Utley; tier 2: Rollins, Victorino, Werth, Ibanez. Ibanez is too old, and the Phillies can't replace Rollins right now. Either Victorino of Werth is expendable (for someone of Halladay's quality). With the pitching we currently have, we can't afford the luxury of keeping 3 all-star outfielders! Deal one of them! Fortunately, we have Taylor and Mayberry that can share RF until Taylor takes it over fulltime. THIS IS A NO-BRAINER, PEOPLE! ... (And for those who say "the Blue Jays don't need an outfielder", who says this needs to be a 2-team deal? Come on, let's do some creative brainstorming, not garbage deals like Bastardo, Kendrick, and Donald for Halladay. The Phillies aren't dealing with Ed Wade here!— jman
- Philly10, 1) Do you think that responding in all caps will anger me? It only makes you look like a dope. 2) No kidding Ibanez & Werth are great offensive players, but you are obviously of the opinion that the Phillies can get quality (Halladay) without giving quality (Werth or Victorino). My point was, if we can get Halladay, that will more than offset the loss of Werth's OR Victorino's contributions for the short term. Soon, Taylor will make us all forget about Werth (see Burrell vs. Ibanez!) ... On second thought, never mind, you don't seem to be able to think this through. You want to obtain good players without giving anybody up.— jman
- Wow by that logic, what's the difference between 23 hits in 100 at bats or 30. If the Phils want to emulate the BoSox, they need to keep a nice balance of young (cheap) and middle aged (expensive) and talented. Does anyone regret the Phils trading Thome? Why would we then regret trading any of our starting outfielders to make room for this kid. Money we could spend elsewhere. That said, the Phils are currently economically able to both trade for and sign Halliday to an extension, and they should do it.— bobcitydoc
- You're a savvy baseball fan, tonyb!— spinmeister
- Why all the " trade Werth " talk. I just don't understand why everyone dislikes Werth? And what makes people think he could be included in a Halladay trade? Even if Taylor might be better...WERTH IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE..SO FORGET IT. He's an ALL STAR with a rifle arm and good bat. With Werth we know what we have at the major league level...I hate the Marlon Byrd comparison but in reality Taylor is unproven yet....Taylor has HIGH TRADE VALUE now...so why not use that to get better? And every team including Toronto wants major league ready picks from the minors...that's the reality. This is not like having jelly beans people....keep what you want..and discard what you want. Sacrifice is necessary. It's a part of good business. Often you have to sacrifice what you have to get what you want...in this case good pitching. Taylor is the sacrifice....'cause of his youth and potential. And if he dosen't pan out...well that's the Blue Jays problem not ours. Werth is staying...period!!!— tony b
- Why all the " trade Werth " talk. I just don't understand why everyone dislikes Werth? And what makes people think he could be included in a Halladay trade? Even if Taylor might be better...WERTH IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE..SO FORGET IT. He's an ALL STAR with a rifle arm and good bat. With Werth we know what we have at the major league level...I hate the Marlon Byrd comparison but in reality Taylor is unproven yet....Taylor has HIGH TRADE VALUE now...so why not use that to get better? And every team including Toronto wants major league ready picks from the minors...that's the reality. This is not like having jelly beans people....keep what you want..and discard what you want. Sacrifice is necessary. It's a part of good business. Often you have to sacrifice what you have to get what you want...in this case good pitching. Taylor is the sacrifice....'cause of his youth and potential. And if he dosen't pan out...well that's the Blue Jays problem not ours. Werth is staying...period!!!— tony b
- Listen...Taylor was promoted to triple A because either the Toronto Blue Jays wanted to see him play at that level or Amero wanted to show him off at that level. He IS the main piece in any Roy Halladay trade to take the Blue Jay's mind off of Drabek. End of discussion. If anyone else believes another theory...well... Also PITCHING wins championships so if we can get Halladay by trading some prospects...them do it!!! Besides, we'd be doing the kid a favor by trading him to a place he can play while he's still young. Having him sit around and wait for Ibanez or someone else to get hurt won't do him any good in the long run. I'm for keeping both Happ and Drabek...but if one of those two needs to be included in a trade for Halladay..it's Happ. With both Taylor and Happ the Phils should be able to add any one or two or our prospects ( I'd like to get Kendrick off our hands or maybe Carrasco if he continues to be inconsistent ). It's actually hard to say if Brown has more upside than Taylor at this point....but as previously stated Brown will be ready when Ibanez and Werth's contracts are up. Phils have the prospects and payroll so they'd be the logical choice as the team to do a trade with. The key here is will Halladay nix his no-trade clause to come here. If not...all the trade talk happening is for not— tony b
- I think Werth is great...have loved watching him play from the get go. He has an instinct for the game...probably his lineage....he hits with power, above average in field and runs like a gazelle...and you can tell he loves and appreciates the game.....I am so glad Pat G. had the smarts to get him and Ruben had the cash to keep him happy.— PaulDeon
- Taylor probably should be traded. The Phils have a full outfield and Dominic Brown projects better than Taylor. But Taylor is worthless to the Jays, unless they move someone to first base. They aren't going to bench Rios, Wells, or Lind. What I'd like to see is a package of Taylor, Carrasco, and Jason Donald for Dan Haren. BTW, Jason Donald is another prospect with nowhere to go, Utley and Rollins aren't going anywhere soon. Donald is a much better fit for the Jays too. They could unload Rolen or Scutaro for good value. Actually, Scutaro would make a great righty bench bat for the Phils.— rip
- keep taylor, drabek and marson....trade all the rest and happ for halladay.— PosterChild
- None of these commenters who are so worried about our farm system over getting who is arguably the BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL actually want the Phillies to win the WS again. They just want to moan and complain and have something to "hope for" in 2 years. That's their nature. They are obviously Eagles fans that have jumped on the Phillies bandwagon and if the Phillies front office actaully takes those comments seriously and think they represent what the fans want(10 years of pretty good teams like the Eagles vs. several WS rings), god help us all. Most REAL Phillies fans I know want us to go for the Halladay deal, even if it includes some combo (probably not all) of Happ, Drabek, Brown and Taylor (as well as another lowerlevel prospect or 2) while our best position players (and Hamels) are in their prime. It's POSSIBLE Halladay may go downhill (or Lidge may continue to stink) and we won't win it again, but the % are in our favor (proven pitcher vs. unproven prospects), and the risk is worth it!!!— betsy72
- At this point we do not know who will be better Brown or Taylor but that both have a high ceiling. I would rather keep Taylor since he's Ta righthanded batter. Utley, Howard and Ibanez are all Lefthanded hitters and we need a right handed basher to give the team more balance. The phills face more lefties than any team. All three do better agaist righties particularly Howard. This would leave Werth as the odd man out. Even when Jayson's not hitting he helps the team because of his defense but unless he learns to do better on ball on the outer 3rd of the plate he does not figure to hit much better.— Don w
- Leave Halladay where he is. Toronto won't allow any team to negotiate a new contract with him before a trade and now the news comes out that if traded, Halladay can become a free agent at the end of this year. We can't give up our best prospects for a 2 month rental. This deal would be a disaster in the long run.— bigtbone
- Raul will need 1 or 2 days a week off possibly with his groin. Werth when he is slumping can use a break or two .No reason you can't give Taylor enough work and enough at bats to vastly improve our bench. If he proves in the next few weeks he can hit AAA bring him up and give him a shot. Mayberry has to go and Taylor can't be worse. If, and I say if Taylor can do everything Werth does but hits over 300 I say trade Werth after the 2010 season because he will command a lot of money and we have to start injecting the good young kids on this team so we can afford to pay a top pitcher. Taylor, Brown and Vic our allstar outfield in 2011— pattymac3
- Putting Taylor on the bench and letting him hit sporatically doesn't help anyone. He's better off starting every day and at Triple A rather than having to change his whole game up to learn to pinch hit and spot start. Sure, the Phillies have Mayberry on the bench now, but that's because they know what they'll get from him, a guy who's swing is way too long and will never be an impact player. When you have a top prospect, they are NOT best used by throwing them in as an 8th inning replacement. If you're gonna call Taylor up to sit him on your bench and pinch hit, might as well call up Drabek to pitch middle relief. I'm pretty sure Taylor's good as gone, and the call up to AAA was just to show him off to the scouts.— LAEagle
- If the Phillies are willing to give up 5-6 players like Happ, Taylor, Drabek, etc. for Halladay, I'm sure one of the other teams who have younger equally talented pitchers like Zack Greinke, Felix Hernandez, or Dan Haren would be interested and maybe even take less. Why aren't the Phillies at least consider other top pitchers if they are willing to give up the farm...? At least these other guys are younger, cheaper, and probably signed longer. Usually these type of players are untouchable but maybe not in this case.— Whiz_Kids
- It would be another big mistake. The team needs a quality fourth outfielder. Mayberry is not the guy. Rotating outfielders is a good idea to keep guys fresh.— wmontanez27
- I'll join in with those that think you are flat out wrong. The Phillies have yet to show that they know what to do with top-rated prospects when they have them but the asnswer is not a trade. If Taylor lights a fire under Jayson Werth and turns him into a more consistent player, so be it. If you look at Werth's numbers against right hand pitching then you can begin to understand why we're not as enthralled with him as you are. I think Taylor is leverage against the loss of Howard down the road, the aging a/o ill health of Ibanez and the inconsistency of Werth. I think in a year, Andy, you'll be laughing at yourself just as we are laughing at you now for the 'trade Taylor' suggestion.— Claudio Vernight
- Man I be so glad when the 31st rolls by and Halladay is somewhere else.— Wally 24
- I am NOT anti-Werth......but looking at the payroll even a year down the line.....then 3 years....they are gonna have to cut payrool to pay for all the raises ppeep like Howard, rollins, hamels, everybody else. So I see werth going before Victorino.....Vic still has 1 more arbit year. Werth's contract go from 2M this year to 7M next year! They have to save somewhere......????? By keeping Taylor even playing hime sporaticly as others go down to injuries things like that thye will save a toin of money bc they own him for the next 4-5 years @ cheap pay!— crazycurt623
- If the braves traded David Justin and let Ron Gant go in their prime the Phillies can trade Werth. I like werth a lot but Taylor looks like a guy who can hit 290-310 Werth is a 270-280 guy. It is not personal it is just business.— bluejfk
- Who in the hell wants to trade Victorino? For a 32 y.o. pitcher? We could get the 28y.o. Cy younger from Cleveland for less than RH and have more of a future without giving up as much. Trade Victorino?— cbray
- Werth is a good player but I am still wary of him because until the second half of last year he was still a platoon player. This year he is playing full time and only batting .234 with many strikeouts against righthanded pitchers. I think the team would be better if they played Greg Dobbs in rightfield against righthanded pitchers.— waltZ
- AJ Happ Roy Halladay Are people really making Happ the deal breaker.... Somebody look up what teams he has his 4 wins against (as a starter) 2 of his wins were from the bullpen— BurtonT
- If the trade includes Happ it is not worth it. Not that Halladay isn't a much better pitcher, but we still end up with two strong starters (of course stronger) and 3 weak ones. Blanton may pitch well in the 2nd half, and Moyer may manage more gems like this week, but you can't count on it. To really improve the staff, the number 3, 4, or 5 has to drop off, preferably 5.— plugh
- Phils front office are idiots. They did the same thing with Ryan/Thome. You don't just go and trade a guy of Tatylor's talenmt, "because you have 3 good starters already." That would be dumb, to trade a future star, just because there is no room for him. Make room for him! Why do the Phils make these signings of positions they don't need!— scars73
- Thank you, BurtonT— spinmeister
- Isn't Ibanez 37 or soon to be 37?Taylor should be given a shot at coming off the bench next year.Right now he projects to be better than Werth.This kind of talk reminds me of all the idiots who wanted to use Howard as trade bait.Taylor and 3 pitchers for a 32y/o,who might have just one more year left,sounds ridiculous.The talent the Phillies have right now is leading the league.Short term gain=long term pain.— homer2811
Comment removed.- Do people really think we will get Halladay for anything less than: Drabek, Happ, Marsen, Taylor OR Brown + maybe Donald It's gonna take the top 4 prospects we hold right now - So all of this Bastardo, Carrasco, Kendrick, Valde talk isn't logical thinking for Blue Jay's front office This is Roy Halladay!— BurtonT
- If Taylor is the real deal (which he appears to be) then that makes the decision easier to make: trade Werth if he is a major chip toward getting a pitcher like Halladay or someone close. Why? Because I would much rather have a .300+ hiiter with 30 HR's, 100+ RBI, 20+ steals, and less than 100 K's (Taylor) than a .265 hitter with 30+ HR's, 90-100 RBI, 20+ steals, and 150 K's (Werth). So to answer Andy's question, Werth is not producing numbers that Taylor more than likely will produce. And I agree with the poster who brought up Ryan Howard's situation, being called-up in at 26 yrs of age. So Andy thinks Jim Thome should have been retained and Howard traded? That's what it sounds like. Anyway, Taylor obviously has far more "upside" than Werth, especially since Werth is a finished product compared to Taylor. While Jayson is producing at a reasonable level, he still strikes out far too often and seems to not hit in the clutch as much as his numbers indicate he might. (i.e. strikes out with the bases loaded then next at-bat hits a HR with bases empty....timing is everything.) So it's not that Werth is not a good player, but that Taylor can be a much BETTER player.— MrPhillie
- I don't see why you keep Brown and Taylor. The outfield is jammed right now, and if an outfielder is needed in the future, they can always roll the dice on another castoff Jayson Werth guy, or at the very least move an infield prospect into left field like they did with Burrell. Pitchers like Halladay aren't a dime a dozen, and it's a once in a blue moon shot that you can get him.. it it takes Brown and Taylor, why not do it? Worst case scenario is they become huge stars 3 or 4 years from now for a still rebuilding team that the phillies never play, best case scenario is we win a few more WS trophies while Toroton enjoys Marlon Byrd 2.— LAEagle
- Love the literary critics who think of themselves as baseball experts. Remember the first principle in trades: you have to give up something to get something. We need pitching, so we have to give up something else. Want to repeat as World Champs? If so, the Phils have to deal. Toronto's going to want something. They should protect the starting lineup and trade a few prospects. That's how it works. No way should they trade Werth.— spinmeister
- Taylor sounds like a guy who could very well be a cornerstone for five to seven years. I also, am not a Werth guy. He clearly does a lot of good things and has a lot of skill. I can't stand his approach at the plate though. He has that long swing, misses often, swings at a lot of bad pitches, pitches in the dirt, etc. And he does not hit well situationally which drives me nuts. Don't try to hit a home run when you have a small lead late in the game with men on. Move the runner. Get that extra run. He's a good player but I would try to slide Taylor into that slot.— Shenkman3
- RE: 4th outfielder. We must eventually (soon I hope) elevate Taylor. Keep him thru Sept and into '10 season as 4th Outfielder. Mayberry is overmatched, Stairs is a pinch-hitter. Over the course of a sesaon, the 4th outfielder will get 300 + AB's due to injuries of top 3, days off, slumps, PH's, etc. NO TEAM goes thru the year with 3, so its logical that we retain Werth/ Ziggy and Shane for '10, dispose of Mayberry, possibly retain Stairs and deploy Taylor. I dont see it as a problem like a lot of you guys. Trading Vic/Werth is not a real front burner issue.— mick314
- No effin way. Anyone but taylor.— LGbalsac
- No effin way. Anyone but taylor.— LGbalsac
- when a reporter appears in print constantly, it is assumed he knoweth wherefrom he speaketh. so very often, this is not the case. trade taylor because "...he deserves an organization that needs him..."??? oi gevalt!! prior to mid-season '08, there was panic amongst the great philly unwashed to grab hold of a star pitcher. we won without such. mid-season '09, there is panic to grab hold of a star pitcher. we will win (or not) without such. let the rough diamonds at allentown and reading, the few that exist, become polished. naturally. organically. the steinbrenner game (ready for this?) does not work. as in...NOT.— kiwi
- get roy....it is that simple.........then get ready for a couple parades the next few years.....I hope the parade routes are different each year?— eagles2010
- Drbob- it was a 'Big Lebowski' reference.— ILL-UH-DEL
- How are the Phils going to be able to afford to resign Werth? Who do they let go? In 2011 the salaries of Hammels, Howard, Utley, Ibanez, Rollins, Lidge and Madson will be at their highest (as well as the pitcher who they get to replace Myers...Halladay, Lackey...whoever) They will also probably try to sign Victorino to a long term deal/extension. They will also hopefully be trying to extend either Hammels or Howard. I think the sacrifice to keep the above guys together will be letting Werth (and eventually Ibanez) go and replacing them with low costing prospects so they are able to afford Howard, Hammels, Vic, Rollins, Utley, Lidge, Madson, and some other pitchers, etc... I like Werth but I think his streakiness frustrates some fans, just as Burrell's streakiness did. When all is said and done, Werth should but up great numbers but when he is bad, he looks really bad (look at last night's game with the 4 K's) I just think it is good to have quality options. With that said, I am sure that to get Halladay or Lee they will have to give up some of those quality projects so we just have to see what happens. I value Taylor higher than Brown, but that is just a matter of opinion. (Taylor has been more consistent and has produced at a higher level so far)— Nicknm
- i like the fact werth goes deep in the count,but he's a streaky hitter(all arms;opens up) and i'm not sold on his defense...he often makes routine catches look scary and though he has a strong arm, he's not very accurate.— oz
- Werth is awesome.. People are morons.— ChrisM
- It was a reference to the Billy Joel song, Yatzeel.— frankenslade
- dad,no one said Shu, Jordan, etc. were anything near what Taylor is. If he is so bad, how come other teams want him? Werth has one year left. He could be trade bait for someone next year to get a pitcher the Phillies will need. How long will Moyer be able to go? Blanton? Pitcher of the week club? Maybe even get Victorino traded because scouts say Taylor is just as fast if not faster,even for his size. How about a lineup of Utley, Howard,and Taylor. Two years from now how much will Howard want to stay around? A-Rod #s. Taylor would be the perfect replacement. Let's not give away the farm. Remember 83-2003. Name all the stars that came out of the farm system. I'll spot you Rolen. Take your time.— mike l
- how does everyone know Taylor is going to be a superstar? Give me the guy who has proven himself in the bigs(Werth) and take the shot for once by trading away some of these prospects and getting Doc. Lots of scouts say Taylor has holes in his swings that MLB pitchers will eat alive. Or are we forgetting Rick Schu, Jeff Stone, Ricky Jordan, and countless other 'blue-chip' prospects who had mediocre MLB careers? Ill take production over potential any day of the week, hence, why this front office wins World Series and you people make dumb trades in this section.— seaonasdad
- And just as a follow-up, that is why most people view batting average as the most overrated stat in baseball. OBP is FAR more important.— ChrisInVT
- "Yeah buddy the difference of a career of 27 hits vs. 30 hits per 100 at bats are Hall of fame votes." This may be true but in reality the difference is extremely small...you're talking 15 hits a season, or about 3 per month. The difference between a .270 average and a .300 average is almost nothing. As for this "trade Taylor" talk, everyone's a commodity that can be dealt for the right price. Hell even Hamels could be traded, if it meant they brought in a pitcher like Tim Lincecum. It's all about value...If Taylor's value to the club is bringing in an ace like Hallday, Lee, or Haren, then they should trade him. If the price isn't right, then don't and let him replace Ibanez in a season or two.— ChrisInVT
- you can't compare the scenarios of what we did with thome. thome was fading out and we were a team looking to become in the hunt for a playoff. now we're a team looking to go deep into the playoffs and repeat as world champions. we've got a very good team, adding halladay would set us apart from the NL east automatically and make us a top tier team in the MLB. many people think we're already at that level, but there's many arguments against that thinking and halladay silences many of those arguments— aam13
Yeah buddy the difference of a career of 27 hits vs. 30 hits per 100 at bats are Hall of fame votes.— KINGOFZED- I would keep Taylor. I could envision next season giving Ibanez, Victorino, Werth and Howard each one day off a week giving Taylor 3-4 starts a week that would give around 400 at bats. A nice way to break him in.— dntnoschmidt
- too old? wow can i have you have your job?..i can make stupid comments too id just rather get paid for it— PhillySports23
- Jay, thanks for pointing the way he types out...I saw someone reference his post but I couldn't find him anywhere...Thanks man!!!— MFPhils
- Don't trade Michael Taylor. He's going to be a superstar. Also don't trade Happ. Other then those two, maybe trade Drabek and Brown plus money for Halladay. How long is Ibanez signed for? After next season, trade him, preferably for pitching. He'll be a hot commodity.— p-diddy
- All this incessant "trade the farm" talk is playing right into Toronto's hand. I want Halladay too, but it has to be at a fair price. It's tough enough to give up a ton of talent but if you're only going to get Halladay for a year or two it skews the deal heavily in Toronto's favor. And I don't think Taylor would be too old if he arrived in the bigs in 2011 at age 25. The guy that's blocking him is 37 years old and can't play forever. He just fits this lineup better than anybody else they have in their system.— Rick Wise Guy
- Halladay = Clemens; its a no brainer.— Doubtful
- Comment removed.
- I dont understand why people dont like werth,look at his stats over a full season and he's better than taylor ever will be.Keep werth put vic in the leadoff spot and trade J-roll.Repeat....hellz ya— bdawkisgod
- I am a supporter of taking the known commodity over a "potential" star, but just how much is too much to give up?? Happ has been awesome this year and I'd hate to see him go.— Tar Heel 1
- Trade him now, get halladay. just dont give up drabek or happ if possible.— fman727
- For those who are recalling the 2005 season and cursing the decision to play Bell, the son of Manuel's friend and former player in Cleveland, it's only part of the story. He blocked Chase Utley's development for at least a half a season, lying about his poor performance against lefthanders - the stats proved otherwise. What was unconscionable was Manuel continuing to play his good buddy Thome that year. Thome was hitting with one hand and stinking out the joint. But the Curley Howard clone wouldn't swallow his pride and let Ryan Howard through. Manuel was happy to oblige. He sat Howard for pinch-hit AB's, and with that creep Ed Wade kept him in the minors for a time. Then, when Thome couldn't play any more, Manuel had no choice but to play Howard. Polanco had been traded, Utley stepped in and Bell, that honor-less stiff, played third. The Phillies lost the division by two games and the Wild Card by one game. Manuel essentially lost the division and wild card for this. Thome, that loser, can only dream of being as dominating as Howard, who has left his sorry back side in the dust.— Bob1
- philly10, good point, BUT WHY DO YOU HAVE TO TYPE LIKE THIS?!— jayfril
- I am not doubting that Werth can excel beyond the end of his current contract but can the Phillies resign him? To be successful nowadays don't you have to have some cheap, homegrown talent? Can the Phillies be a team with 8 starters making more than $10 million a year?— SVC Guy
- It's not really fair to suggest that Halladay has an extensive injury history. He missed time in '04 with shoulder problems, but that hasn't recurred since. In '05, he missed time because he got hit with a line drive that broke his leg. In '07, he missed 2 weeks to have his appendix out. In '08, he was hit in the head by a line drive, but didn't miss any time. He pulled his groin and missed two weeks this year, but it hasn't affected his performance since. So while there's technically an injury history, most if it involves getting hit by line drives, which is typical for a sinkerball pitcher and shouldn't deter the Phils. Let me just reemphasize my argument. The time is NOW. Picking up Halladay will seal a playoff spot for the Phils, and once there, he will be a major force in giving the Phils a shot to win each series. You tell me what you'd rather see in a series: Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Happ, Hamels, Blanton, Hamels/Moyer; OR Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer/Happ, Halladay, Hamels, Halladay/Blanton. I think that the former rotation gets the Phils to the playoffs, but out in the first round. The latter gives the Phils favorable odds against anyone they face in either league. The choice is simple. Additionally, none of the Phils' prospects are "sure things." If the Phils wait another 5 years until Howard/Utley/Rollins/Hamels are done, these prospects might only field a .500 ballclub. A young, talented core like the Phils have now only comes once every blue moon. It's not like there weren't "can't miss prospects" in other periods; they just never panned out. So while the Phils have this core, I hope they pick up the necessary pieces to make this team a dominant force for the next 4-5 years.— Mike P
- The Phillies have a dilemma with their logjam in the outfield. They have two of the best outfield prospects in Taylor and Brown, two of the most exciting young outfielders in the game in Werth and Victorino and a veteran who keeps getting better with time in MVP candidate Raul Ibañez. Now, who do you get rid of? The obvious candidates are the two kids. Brown is a lefty, and we have plenty in our lineup so he should be the first one to go, but he may not be the one Toronto or another team wants because he is a few years away. So Taylor, then, is the one, but we need another RH power bat in the lineup. Taylor will be perfect. But there is not place in the roster for him, unless you trade Werth, who is coming into his own and is the only our RH power bat. Brown, in the other hand, could be the replacement for Ibañez in 2 1/2 years. How about Victorino? If you trade Victorino and move Werth to center, then you lose the other insurance policy as a leadoff hitter and speed threat in the top of the lineup. Victorino, you could say, is also the heart and soul of this team. And forget about Ibañez. He’s having a great season and I don’t think anybody would take on his contract at his age despite of that, and I don’t think Amaro would trade him either. So, I’m sorry to say that, with tears in my eyes, I’m with the kid and Andy, Taylor is the guy… but is it room in Toronto for him (unless they move Wells or Rios, which it will be difficult nowadays? Maybe in Arizona for Haren.— EL Zorro
- So, what does the writer say when Taylor becomes the next player to hit 325, slug 35 HRs with 125 RBIs, and play flawless defense on a consistent basis on another team while Werth bats 265, Ibanez is gone due to injury while Victorino has consistent up and down seasons? It is great GMs and coaches who recognize greatness and not trade away talent. Food for thought.— psuwelsh
- I have no problem training Taylor in the right deal but the comments by Martino are ludicrous. If his first season in the majors as a starter was 2011(with Werth leaving possibly) he would still be 25 when the season started. That is far from old.— brannigan73
- Michael Taylor is big and athletic. Ibanez is on a short string and we definitely need some insurance. Taylor could play left field and Ibanez can be a pinch hitter. He is hurt and that would prolong his career. Meanwhile Taylor who can steal bases, throw, hit for average and with power can ply his trade in left field. That is a win/win situation. When Dominic Brown is ready, he can take over right or center field because he also is a stud. So in a couple of years we will have an outfield of Taylor, Brown and Werth and we will be better off. Both Brown and Taylor are stronger than Victorino and he can be trade bait for a pitcher. Taylor, Brown, and Jason Donald. They are our outfielders and 3rd baseman of the not too distant future.— Horlet
- I agree with Andy's opinion ofntrading Taylor in a Halladay deal and keeping Werth. Thank god fans don't vote on trades. It's bad enough they're allowed to vote on the All-Star team.— CenterCityPhan
- The most significant factor in getting Halladay is whether Toronto likes the Phils prospects more than those other teams are offering. It doesn't matter if Amaro is willing to give up Taylor unless Toronto likes Taylor. No matter how much the Phils are willing to give up, we won't get Halladay unless Toronto likes our prospects. No matter how much everyone on this board likes these guys, we can't make Toronto like them. The frustrating thing is that if we don't get Doc, we won't know if it is because Toronto didn't like our guys or because we were not willing to give them up.— fmcvey
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- Andy i still disagree about Raul being destined to be on the DL bc of his age..i havent looked at his track record but each player is different. As for J werth, people are crazy for not loving the guy. Absolute stud who is only getting better..i do think the key factor is how much he would have to get paid after next year, thats where keeping Taylor around would make sense. Thats why i say bring him up next year to play a few times per week, pinch hit etc..of course Andy he prob will have lots of playing time with Raul being on the DL constantly :)— philsfan in the atx
- If I were Amaro, the Halliday deal might depend more on how good Blanton looks the next two starts. If he looks like he can hold down the #2 spot in the playoffs, then it's probably not worth it. He's got real playoff experience now, (2-0, 3.18, 1.29 WHIP last year), and he's got a 2.22 ERA since May 26. Them's some serious numbers, as they say.— B in DC
- I'm not sure why I should worry about the 2012 roster in 2009 with a team that is a serious contender to repeat. This team has a three year window of opportunity to win more titles. If Taylor is the missing piece that gets one of the three best pitchers in baseball, you have to make the deal. Is there a person on this blog who wouldn't accept a 50 win season in 2012 if we win two more titles in the next three years?— KMG
- The point with trading Taylor is that if he is a key piece in getting an elite picther like Halladay, you should do it. It would be better to trade Taylor than Drabek simply becaue the Phils are going to need starting pitching a lot more than outfield help in the near future. Noone is suggesting that they should give Taylor away because he is blocked - he is just someone they can afford to give up in a deal for an elite starter. Yes it makes sense to use Taylor for Werth at the end of next season - unless you can use Taylor to get Halladay now!— fmcvey
Assuming you don't strip your minor leagues of all their talent just to get Halladay the Phillies 2012 opening day line-up could look like this: C- Marson, 1B - Howard (need to resign) 2B - Utley (also need to resign) 3B - Jason Donald SS - ??? (don't think JRoll will be worth resigning) LF - Taylor CF - Victorino RF - Brown with a rotation of 1) Hamels 2) Drabek 3) Carrasco 4) Happ 5) ??? (Savory/Knapp) -— bird11- Martino can't be serious when he says that the Phillies should trade Taylor now, before he'seven reached the majors. Taylor may have enough raw talent to make any of the Phillies' three current all-star outfielders replaceable one day soon. These comments from Martino are probably the most amateurish remarks that I have ever heard from a professional reporter/baseball expert. -Dennis O.— Dennis O.
- Taylor is 24 in 2011 he will be 26 the exact age of Ryan Howard in his first full season. In 2011 Werth will be 31 and eligible for free agency - if Werth has another year like this one keeping him would be cost prohibitive especially if you believe you have a player who can produce the same #s who is not even arbitration eligible. After 2011 the Phillies will need to decide who of Utley, Howard, & Hamels to try and keep as they enter free agency - wouldn't the money you save having Taylor over Werth be better spent keeping those guys??— bird11
- The reluctance to embrace Werth doesn't make any sense. If Werth hits 30+ HR and steals 30 bases with a high OBP and good baserunning/defense - that is not just good production - it is elite production. The idea of trading Werth or Victorino is silly. Toronto wants guys that don't make money and won't be eligible for arbitration for several years. Werth makes $7 million next year and Victorino will get at least that much in arbitration. The only guy on the major league roster that Toronto might want is Happ - because he is still not arbitration eligible for several years. If teams value Taylor and you can get a Halladay or a Cliff Lee by inlcuding Taylor in a deal - it makes sense. However, you certainly should not give him away because of age. I think next year is Werth's last with the Phils because he is such a good player - he is a $12 million/season player as a 30/30 guy. The Phils will need to save this money to hold on to their bigger stars and/or invest in more pitching.— fmcvey
- sportsfan63...well said!— PhilliePhan24
- Now is the time to use Brown or Taylor to get the pitcher we all know we need. The core of the team is 29-30ish, make the deal for halliday and have a chance at repeating for the first time in........hmmm, never.— sportsfan63
- God, our fans are stupid........— OMIGODEAGLES
- Speaking of Wells and Rios..and their contracts, doesn't Toronto management really look stupid for giving those guys such huge contracts? Do you think that will stop GMs in the future from doing that with other players who have had one or two really productive seasons? I doubt it. These guys never learn. Its not their money, and they figure the worst that will happen if things don't work out is that they'll get fired...which they ultimately do.— SteveS11
- Martino - how will they afford to pay for Werth with all the big contracts on the books. Unless they have one year of over $150 mil payroll in 2011 and then drop Howard, (which they might be forced to if he doesn't want to stay), they can't afford Werth because he's so good. Even with 81+ sellouts they'll ever have the revenue stream to keep five/six all-star calibur position guys (counting JRoll, for argument's sake), plus two or three all-star calibur veteran pitchers in Hamels, Lidge, and possibly Halliday.— B in DC
- Yatzee- I don't know what it has to do with golfing(like ill-uh-del said) , but you're obviously not a Billy Joel fan...That sentence alludes to an old song of his called "Allentown"— drbob1
- Walker should have stayed!
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- Yahtzee. -blah blah = factories down. Obviously you're not a golfer.— ILL-UH-DEL
- I don't think Taylor is untouchable as far as a Halladay trade....maybe he's untouchable if the deal is for a lesser pitcher. However, the rest of your blog doesn't make much sense. How old was Ryan Howard when he broke into the big leagues? A lot of these college guys don't get any significant playing time until 25 or 26. To suggest that the Phillies should just dump one of the best 5 tool OF prospects in the game because he could be 25 or 26 when he gets a shot a regular playing time is ridiculous. Again, if he's part of a package for Halladay, then that makes sense. But I don't see any reason why the Phillies would need to just dump this guy. If he can outplay Werth or Ibanez next year, then you just trade Ibanez or Werth, not Taylor. What kind of nonsense is this about Ibanez "likely" remaining injury-prone? Where do you come up with this garbage? Did you do some sort of scientific study or something? Ibanez played 162 games last year and has averaged 158 games per year over the last 4 seasons he played with Seattle. The guy isn't injury-prone. You can't "remain" injury-prone if you've never been injury-prone in the first place. You're making him sound like JD Drew or Chipper Jones. Ibanez got a groin pull...that's a fairly common injury for athletes from high school level all the way through the professional ranks. The Phillies Zone has really gone downhill without Zolecki.— JimG
- Don't give up too much of the future for Halladay. How many more years does he have left at 33? He's has had a injury history, has never pitched under the spotlight before in BIG games.(you never know, didn't look that great in all star game) We all would love to have him now but at what price?— PhillyNH
- Hitters are easier to obtain. Weren't we able to get Ibanez as a free agent and he's our best hitter. The thought of breaking up the Werth/Victorino/Ibanez outfield is insane. Add Roy halladay yesterday!— PhilliePhan24
- I like jss's idea. Let's trade our bad players for good players. I wonder why the GM hasn't thought of that. And, btw, if the Pirates won't give up Malchom, maybe they'll trade Dewey or Francis. (Or Maholm, for that matter.)— GoPhilsGo
- People, people, people...Haven't you heard that potential and 50 cents (maybe, more now) will get you a cup of coffee? Gregg jefferes had potential...So did Von Hayes. We have a window of opportunity to win a few championships with the core group. adding one of the 3 best pitchers in baseball can only increase their chances. Besides, young pitching is much more valuable than another big hitter. Keep Drabek...Move Taylor!— PhilliePhan24
- how does mayberry fit into the equation? Isnt he the next in line to replace one of the outfielders? the power right handed bat they so desparately need (or so its been said?)...— ag
- Sorry PK - wasn't doen typing by the time your next post hit re: 27 vs. 30 hits. And yes, I think there is really that much of a difference, and he only gets 26 out of a hundred this season, and for his career. Taylor is showing the potential to do even more. And I scoff at the notion that Eric Bruntlett isn't a five-tool player. Esp. if all five of the tools are "lousiness".— B in DC
- Taylor could be a stud big leaguer. Or he could be the next Wes Chamberlain, who also tore up Double A when he was 23 (.300-plus average, 20+ homers, .500+ slugging percentage). You never know, which is exactly why your "untouchable" list ought to be very, very short when you're talking about someone like Halladay.— GoPhilsGo
- Trade Bruntlett for Halladay!— phasor
- "Ibanez will remain injury plagued bc of his age" ...that is a generalization and i dont agree with it..he tweaked his groin but doesnt mean the guy will be on the DL 2x per year now..kinda a dumb comment Andy. My thoughts with Taylor are move him if its part of a deal to bring a big stud in (Halladay)..if not I wouldnt be against bringing him up next year and having him play 1-2 times per week for Werth (against a solid RH pitcher), and then once per week for Vic and Raul to keep them fresh..also a big power RH bat off the bench. I think he could get his ABs in..then we have a little of an idea of he looks in the bigs before we decide what to do at the end of Werth and Victorinos contract. gives some flexibility with decisions bc Vic and Werth will both be ready to cash in on a big payday (well deserved).— philsfan in the atx
- PK - one of the "five tools" is "hits for average". You think Werth fits that category at .260? His career best .298 was the year he was platooning and facing almost all left-handers for 2/3 of the year. Here's an interesting stat - His OPS off Lefties is 1.092, with 9 HR in 98 AB. Pujols is 1.184 with 11 HR in 86 AB, by comparison, which is better, but not by much. This is all to say that I do think Werth is a heck of a player, but with his contract up sooner and his propensity to strike out a lot, he is the most expendable of the trio of current OF.— B in DC
- I remember a few years ago that Howard was blocked by Jim Thome at 1st and instead of trading away Howard they found a home for Thome. Figure out which OF has the most trade value and send him to make room for Taylor. He's cheaper than any of them and more talented than all of them. Werth can play center if you trade away Victorino. Ibanez probably only has another year left before his body breaks down completely.— PhilzPhan
- Keep Taylor, trade Mayberry, Savery, Carrasco and Donald or Kendrick. Otherwise I'd go try to get pitchers like Duke or Malchom from the Pirates or Grienke from KC. Mayberry is not a good bench player and needs to play everyday, thats probably not going to happen with the Phils.— jss31
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- By the way, a lot of you guys continue to talk about building this team for a WS run for the next few years. Where have you been? In the 100+ yrs. of Phillies baseball, we have TWO WS Titles. Let's make it about THIS year, DAMMIT!! PK— PhillyTheKid
- No Taylor or Happ in a trade! Werth is the odd man out; even though I hate to say it.— thejerz
- PS: why do any of you think Werth's last year with the Phils is next season? We're going to get rid of him in his prime? Not only do I hope NOT, but I don't think so! He may not warm your hearts like Vic, Utley and Howard, but this guy is the ONLY 5-tool player on the team! PK PS: I realize some of you will dispute the "5-tool" tag because of his batting avg...Is there really that much difference between 27 hits and 30 hits/100 AB's?— PhillyTheKid
- I agree trade Taylor. Phillies are ranked 20th on most scouts Farm System rankings. They're also notorious for over-valuing their prospects. Unless you're the Pittsburgh Pirates, Washington Nationals or Cleveland Indians, you play to win now in baseball. ESPECIALLY if you're defending world champions. Anybody who doubts this, stop eating all this 'prospect' hype. Nobody cared about the farm system before until all these guys started receiving unnecessary attention.— robkaos
- It's clear that you (andy) are from New York. And it's also clear you know nothing about baseball. Your reason to trade Michael Taylor is moronic and unfounded. He's one of the better prospects to come up in the Phillies Farm system the past 10 years and his numbers support that. Not to mention, Werth will be gone at the end of next year with the Phillies able to pick compensatory picks by him signing with another team. In addition, the Phillies own the right to Michael Taylor for roughly the next 5 years and can keep their salary figure to a minimum through arbitration. Great journalism, maybe you should write something that you actually have a clue about.— nickshak
- 1) Taylor IS expendable because of Brown AND our existing outfield; 2) Those of you who pooh pooh Werth's value aren't very baseball savvy; a 5-tool player who has obviously worked very hard to overcome some nagging injuries, sustained while a Dodger, to break into the Phils' starting line-up. His biggest, maybe only, weakness is hitting against "certain" right-handed pitchers, but his success against lefties and the "other" righties, along with his ability to get more quality AB's than anyone in the line-up, with the possible exception of Utley, AND his run production, make this guy a keeper. Personally, I would like to see Werth sit against some righties, but the reasoning is more to keep Dobbs and Stairs sharp than anything else; 3) Murph, how you can say Taylor will be too old, even if he's 28, is HILARIOUS! It used to be a baseball player's "prime" was from 27-32...THAT has changed! It has to be more like 27-35 now. This guy will make some team, even us, very happy someday. 4) I love our bullpen as it stands, but a couple of those guys are expendable IF it helps us get Halladay and not lose the FARM, i.e., Condrey, Durbin or Eyre (not as much because we do need at least a seconf lefty out there). I would include Park in there, BUT he just may be the "x factor" in the 'pen this season. He still has great stuff. 5) Wasn't real sad to see Taschner (the pitcher)go; but ALWAYS tough from the standpoint of "friendship/teammates." PK— PhillyTheKid
- Who is this idiot?? trade Taylor? as much as I like seeing Ibanez play great, it is only a matter of time before his age catches up with him. Snoop Dog called and whatever you are smoking he wants it back!— cote32
- jman, read the post by philly10. No offense, but you can't think outside the box without a brain.— PhilCali
- FightinPhil has it exactly right. Let's not pretend that this is time for stocking up on prospects and rebuilding. This is time for getting the one or two pieces that put the Phils over the top for the next 3-4 years. Those pieces are an ace--Halladay--and a right-handed bat off the bench. The only single player in the minors I'd be worried too about holding onto is Drabek, though you could even sell me on packaging him. In the end, I think it probably takes Drabek or Happ; Brown or Taylor; Donald; and 1-2 other prospects, ranging from Carrasco to Savery to Marson to Knapp. If we could pull it, I would prefer that it be Happ, Taylor, Donald, Savery, and if necessary, one longshot. I suspect that the Jays would demand that we either swap in Drabek or Brown, and that Savery be switched with Carrasco. They might demand a bigger haul by asking for Knapp. At any rate, I think within these basic parameters is a deal that could work, and it's one that I would definitely pull the trigger on. It would suck to lose Happ, who is pitching pretty well right now, but I don't seeing him being any better than a 3 or a 4 in the long run, whereas they're saying Drabek could be as good as a 2.— Mike P
i have to say, however, that something i've liked about the phils lately is that, other than raul and lidge and blanton, they're almost entirely homegrown or rule 5 guys. i like that the phils don't operate like the yanks or red sox. and i think that's part of the reason why the fans respond so well to them - they've blossomed before our eyes.— Leegles- kozykoz26, i think you're right, though i'd like it both ways. get halladay, but keep some exciting prospects. i think the guy who said that the jays wanna get rid of wells and rios's contracts is right on, too.— Leegles
- EricChase, I agree for me Werth's the odd man out if that's even a plausible direction (which i don't think it is). He has potential and a questionable (borderline) All-Star, solid power numbers, good arm, good speed. But he's 30 and will command a high salary when his contract runs out in 2011, especially if he keeps up his numbers, which makes him unlikely in a Blue Jay outfield. The Jays are trying to rid themselves of Rios' and Wells' pricey contracts, adding another one doesn't make sense. But the idea of a Ibanez, Victorino, Taylor outfield is intriguing. Players who hit for average with plus power at the corners, coupled with consistent speed and the will to win in CF, with great defense all the way around. However, Taylor would have to pan out this season for a back-to-back World Series chance, and either the Indians or Blue Jays would have to covet Werth (for a Halladay or Cliff Lee chance), which is unlikely. Moreover, if this how panned out the Phils outfield would be set up because when Ibanez' contract expires you could plug in Brown in that outfield hole and keep a high cieling taleneted outfield trend going. But that's a lot to ask of Taylor and a big leap of faith for the Phightin's and requires a team to want Werth. So basically in the spirit of the writer's on this site, this is a long winded explanation of why Werth probably won't be moved and moving Taylor is probably the only way to land a dependable inning eater top of the rotation starting pitcher.— phillycuse15
- And how old exactly was Ryan Howard when he got his shot in the majors? Twenty-five if I recall correctly. You're a moron Martino. Give the kid a shot. Regardless, all this depth in the outfield is a blessing and should be cherished even if Ibanez is bound to come back to earth sooner than later.— mdriban
- Andy, have you been following what has been going on with the Mets this season? I watched SNY's Daily News Live yesterday and Bill Madden, a former colleague of yours, said Omar Minaya's biggest mistake has been not fortifying the bench. That, and neglecting the talent level in the minor leagues. Andy, I am somewhat perplexed. On one hand you write how despite all of Taylor's talent and potential, he already has three outfielders blocking his path to the majors. Then, you suggest that Ibanez 'will likely remain injury-prone at his advanced age, and Taylor would likely get opportunities over the next few years.' Well, if that is the case, and Werth's contract expires after next season, why, then, does his age have anything to do with why the Phillies should trade him? Leegels is right for using Ryan Howard as a comparison to Taylor, and you would know, and should know, this if you put any time and effort into your research. The Phillies should trade Taylor if they truly think it will make them better. Not, as you say, because Taylor 'deserves an organization that truly need him.' That is just plain dumb, even for your standards.— PhightinPhil
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- Too old!!!! You must be joking. He'll be 24 next season. Keep him - these guys are injury prone. Consider this - after Taylor, name the organization's best backup for Ibanez, Victorino, Werth, or Howard. Please don't say Eric Bruntlett or John Mayberry.— gskeyser
- kozykoz26 is exactly right. People keep talking about mortgaging the futute. We've waited all these years for Howard, Utely, Rollins, Myers, Hamels to develop and now their ready to take multiple runs at a title. Why would we want to wait another 3,4 years for Drabek and the rest of the farm (HOPE)to develop? Halladay is the missing peice to a great team.
- A Billy Joel allusion?! Really?! Andy, you and I both know that you didn't have to go there.— smel4727
- wait a minute, I know Taylor has more value but the guy who should be sent packing is Mayberry. Wanna talk about value? Werth's value will never be higher than it is between now and next season. If the Phils don't get Halladay, they could bring up Taylor and trade Werth, going into the last year of his deal for a guy like Nelson Liriano or possibly Clay Buchholz. They wouldn't get Buchholz straight up but they'd certainly get the Red Sox attention.— T-Money
- The Future is NOW !— Reggie92
how about we offer up an all star in jayson werth and let taylor take his place?— dpcoz- Closing all the blah blah?— Yatzee!
- Behind Taylor, you got Dominic Brown, another high-ceiling propect who is logjammed in the Phillies organization. Victorino means too much to the clubhouse, and Ibanez was the signing, so if there is an odd man out, it's Werth. But do you want to see him go now that he's truly blossoming, he could hit 40 hr's/100 rbi's this year. Taylor should be trade bait, along with with any 3 pitchers (Bastardo, Happ, Carrasco, Kendrick, or Valde). Pedro lets that happen. Go get Halladay.— Bleue
- By the time Taylor has an opening, he will be competing for the spot with Brown. One of the two are expendable, and should be used to land Halladay. I also think it will take either Drabek or Happ, plus Donald.— dankil13
- Those wanting to deal Victorino underestimate his value. His inclusion to the All Star game was a deserving one. He's a Gold Glover thanks his speed, glove AND arm, and you can't realistically think about dealing him until you're positive Rollins is straightened out atop the lineup. It's very easy to make an argument that behind Ibanez and Utley, Shane has been the most consistent and valuable everyday Phillie in 2009.
- When Taylor is ready to come up to the Bigs, you want to get him as much playing time as possible. You can see the effect that it has on someone who is not quite ready yet and who isnt playing everday (Mayberry). If we can give up Taylor and a few others for Halladay (whilst keeping Happ or Drabek), I say go for it. Brown has more upside then Taylor and should be ready for the Majors when Ibanez is done or Vic and Werth are gone as well— ESFjellin
- Leegles, this is a completely different situation. A) when Thome was here, the Phils did not have a legit shot to win the World Series. B)Urbina is NOT Roy Halladay. He is a proven dominant pitcher, he has been doing it for years in the AL East. Toughest division in baseball. He is a sure thing. Taylor has potential, so did Marlon Byrd...I'd rather not wait around to see if Taylor can play in the bigs some day. Let's win now while the window is still open.— kozykoz26
- If it gets Halladey trade him in a NY second— bsaw
- makes sense until you think about the Jay's outfield, which is loaded with two $100 million plus guys in wells and rios. They would love taylor, but only if the other team took one of those two guys (and their contracts) off the jays' hands. Which, if we really wanted halladay without giving up drabek or taylor or any other stud, taking an albatross contract like wells or rios would be the best way.— vinni
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- Think of the same situation a few years back: Howard was hitting homers in the minors, but still couldn't hit the curve (they said). The Phils had future HOFer Jim Thome at first. Should they have traded Howard? 25 or 26 is not too old, especially if Howard came up when he was 27. At any moment, Shane might dislocate a shoulder running into the wall. Same with Werth. Raul's already been out a month. Taylor seems like the real deal, apparently, but he could also be one of those guys who tears up the minors but never really excels at the major league level. I think we're better off with what we have right now. Halladay doesn't guarantee anything. But if we keep our prospects, we're guaranteed the chance to develop future stars, as the Phils did with Utley, Howard, et al. Another bad trade to consider: Uggie Urbina for Placido Polanco. If we're gotten rid of David Bell (who was a AA player, essentially, juiced to MLB level) and moved Polanco to third, we'd be in much better shape. Sometimes it's better to sit tight, and I think now is one of those times, unless we can somehow steal Halladay?— Leegles
- What is the harm of bringing taylor up next year to come off the bench in werth's final year?— phillies222
- Wow...an opinion that has logic. Nice change of pace.— amblereagles
- Ruben Amaro made darn sure that Michael Taylor was not one of those UNTOUCHABLES!!!!!— tgray83
- Andy, think outside the box: Trade Victorino or Werth to make room for Taylor. Werth or Victoring (both major-league-ready and by the way "all-stars") plus a prospect or 2 should get Halladay. Taylor's ceiling is much higher that Werth or Victorino's anyway. (Or do the don't-give-up-the-future-for-Halladay crowd only care about the pitchers' ceilings?)— jman
- Isn't 25/26 about the norm for when the Phillies like to break in new talent from the minor leagues? It wasn't too old for Utley and Howard, and Happ is off to a good start. We're talking the Florida Marlins or some other team with a track record of calling up 21 year olds.— frankenslade
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