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Tuesday, June 24, 2008
Can the Phillies Make that Big Trade?

So you want C.C. Sabathia.

Who doesn't?

But do the Phillies have enough talent to trade for him -- or somebody like him? Would you trade Shane Victorino and Carlos Carrasco for Sabathia, knowing Sabathia probably won't be back next season and Carrasco is very close to contributing at the big-league level? Jim Salisbury takes a look at what the Phillies have, and what it might take to make a big splash before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline.

Sabathia obviously would be a tremendous pick up for a team that lacks a clear No. 2 behind Cole Hamels. Sabathia started the season slowly with the Cleveland Indians, but is 5-5 with a 2.14 ERA in his last 12 starts. Could you imagine Hamels and Sabathia pitching the first two games of the National League division series this year?

The odds are against the Phillies to acquire Sabathia. In fact, I'd bet against it. But I think the Phillies are more likely to pick up a mid-level starter like Kyle Lohse in 2007 and Jamie Moyer in 2006. But this certainly wouldn't be a bad time for the Phillies to go for broke. Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard are in their primes. The National League is weak, and there for the taking. They have a potent offense -- despite what we've seen lately -- and a solid bullpen.

One stud starter could put them over the top.

*

Utley continues to lead all major leagues in votes for the All-Star Game with 2,179,006 votes. Rollins ranks fourth amongst shortstops, Howard ranks fifth amongst first basemen and Pat Burrell ranks sixth amongst outfielders.

*

Utley endorses EAS products. Here he talks to the company about how he trains in the off-season. And, of course, how wonderful EAS is.

Posted by Todd Zolecki @ 10:43 AM  Permalink | 45 comments
45
Comments   
Posted 11:08 AM, 06/24/2008
topwonk
I saw Carrasco pitch in Reading late last year. He was not overly impressive. Based on that and what I have heard, he is possiby a #3 or #4 pitcher, best case, in two or three years. I've been watching the Phillies for over 40 years. I've seen them win the World Series once. I'd like to see them win it again, and with the young nucleus we have now, which no one should assume will be here two or three years from now, we should go for Sabathia, even at the cost of a possible #3 pitcher down the road and a current pitcher or everyday player, or both. In fact, I'd make an effort sign Sabathia AND one of the other pitchers who is under contract, like Harden or Oswalt. Oswalt is intriguing because his GM (Fast Eddie Wade) has a proven record of making bone-head decisions. Could we steal him for Victorino and Myers? Maybe we get lucky and get two pitchers, but certianly get one!
Posted 11:16 AM, 06/24/2008
bobby
The toughest part of the whole situation is that you only have the guy for half a season. Then if all goes as we assume, meaning the Phillies management will not cough up the bucks to sign him as a free agent, he's gone. That's gone, as in the same way the players you gave up for him are gone. So you face starting next year without the ace you traded for and without the position players (Victorino?) and prospects you gave up. I'm not saying don't do it, but it is not an easy call by any means.
Posted 12:06 PM, 06/24/2008
sdlmedford
If the Phillies should somehow make a trade for Sabathia it is of the utmost importance that they sign him long-term before the trade is completed.
Posted 12:28 PM, 06/24/2008
topwonk
Tough situation, because of Sabathia's contract status? Yes! But that is precisely why the Phillies have any shot at aquiring him. It might scare some other teams off, so let's get him. Future, shmuture. How many legit shots at a World Series do we get? I'd give up future prospects and a now player for a better than 50-50 shot at a Fall Classic this year in a heartbeat. And I think that's what Sabathia, or even Harden or Oswalt, gets you. Let me ask everyone this: Which team's results would you prefer over the last ten years, Florida's or Philly's? If a few down years is what a couple of championships, and a few other contending years costs - I'm in.
Posted 12:45 PM, 06/24/2008
Beef69
I agree with topwonk. Let's go for the gold NOW!!! Give up the farm for Sabathia. With have the hitting. We need the pitching. Everyone wants to play for next year. What about this year?
Posted 01:05 PM, 06/24/2008
doorspj24
I don't care about Sabathia's contract. It's all about this year.
Posted 01:05 PM, 06/24/2008
roque32
You assuming that Sabathia will pitch well in Citizens Bank Park. If you sign Sabathia for a half year, you're not guaranteed a World Series berth. Look at the Mets. They got the best pitcher in baseball and they are floundering. I think the downside to this deal out glares the upside of it. I say no.
Posted 01:05 PM, 06/24/2008
doorspj24
I don't care about Sabathia's contract. It's all about this year.
Posted 01:08 PM, 06/24/2008
roque32
Regarding the Florida vs. Philly results comment. I lived in Florida for 10 years and talked to quite a few Marlins fans. Their biggest complaint about the way Florida does things is that they can't ever get behind a team because the players keep leaving. If you ever watch the Philles play in Florida, you'll see that the stadium is empty. They have no fan support. It's sad really..
Posted 01:13 PM, 06/24/2008
roque32
Let's rephrase the question... Would you be happy with winning 1 more World Series or build a team that can make a legitimate run to several and win a few in the next few years? I know management is banking on the second because that is what fills the stadium. I'm sure that attendance is up this year. Even though the Phillies have been going through a bad stretch of baseball, they are still in first place and before this bad stretch, they were one of the hottest teams in the major leagues. And that was with the same players that they have right now.
Comment removed.
Posted 02:00 PM, 06/24/2008
James TL
If the Phillies continue doing business as usual they will never win a championship. They don't know how to evaluate talent. Their thin farm system is proof of that. They will not 'pay over slot'(which means offering more money than a player may be worth considering the draft slot they were drafted at) for good prospects, therefore they often don't sign them, allowing them to go to college or sign elsewhere. I wish this current ownership, that cars more about making money than winning, would sell the team to an induvidual or group that knows more about how to win. I'll always be a fan but I doubt the Phils will win a championship anytime soon. The current nucleus of Utley, Rollins, Howard, Hamels wil be long gone before they win it again if ever.
Posted 02:46 PM, 06/24/2008
topwonk
As for the lack of fans in Florida, the empty seats are a result of just that - a lack of professional baseball fans, and a lot of other things to do, kind of like L.A. where I saw a ton of empty seats this past weekend. Besides that, I am not suggesting we run the club just like the Marlins, I am just suggesting that the prospect of losing a few players who may be good at the MLB level in a few years, or losing a few players in two or three years because of contract situations, is not enough woe and worry to keep me from going for the Series in a year when the NL is down. And, I disagree with Ray. We DO have prospects, and getting players that help get you to a World Series can help keep players that oherwise might leave (see Rolen, Shilling, etc.). And, I'm not saying this team needs to make big deals for old players, like the Mets with Martinez and Glavine, or overpay everywhere like the Yankees who can afford it and still win nothing. I just want the Phils to be creative and take SOME risks, like they did with the Lidge deal, where they gave up two young guys but got back one of the top five closers in MLB. And, there are not only some prospects in the system but some verterans who are thought highly of by other teams and may not be the best pieces for this team's puzzle going forward (e.g. Myers, Victorino, even Burrell). I know Burrell has been fairly steady for the last 12 months and I think he is a good #5 or #6 hitter, but again, good to great pitching wins championships because it generally performs consistently, while hitters do not (see current Phils slump and the Rockies in last year's World Series). And relieving the club of Burrell's contract ratehr than extending it would help with the Hamels and Howard contract situations. Let's see the front office be creative, possibly overspend a bit, and for once build a pitching staff that can win it all.
Posted 02:58 PM, 06/24/2008
Beef69
I just sick and tired of losing. We have a team now that can and I mean can win a World Series. But we need one more starting pitcher to get us there. Yes Sabathia in not a garantee, but it a lot better that what we have. Could you imagine a 1,2 of Hammels and Sabathia come October. Don't think it gets much better than that.
Posted 03:38 PM, 06/24/2008
frankenslade
How often do teams in contetion make that one "big trade" that's certain to "put them over the top" not to get over the top? Sabathia's not even having a good year and he's a huge guy, probably wearing down. A.J. Burnett's a DL regular. No thanks! I'd feel better if they picked up either a cheaper half-season veteran, like Maddux - or maybe another one of San Diego's starters (but not Randy Wolf). Victorino could be very attractive to a team with a huge outfield like theirs. Longer term, I'd take a shot at Oswalt. They'd have to pay him for a few years, but if he gets himself straightened out, he's nasty and consistent.
About Andy Martino and Matt Gelb














Andy Martino is in his second season on the Phillies beat. A former New York City public school teacher and graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, he previously wrote for the New York Daily News, where he covered baseball and worked with the award-winning investigative sports "I-team." Follow him on Twitter here.

Matt Gelb is in his first season covering the Phillies. He was hired by The Inquirer in August 2009 after graduating from Syracuse University. He also interned at The Inquirer in 2008 and has covered just about every sport for the paper. Born and raised in Bucks County, he attended Central Bucks High School West. Follow him on Twitter here.

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